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 Topic: antisemitism cause?

 (Read 1025 times)
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  • antisemitism cause?
     OP - November 25, 2017, 11:42 PM

    i ve always been curious what cause it? learnt today that the Jews in Germany during the early C20th where the most integrated Jews in known history to western German culture yet the holocaust still happened?

    Religious hated is a good reason but i know atheists and non-religious conspiracy theorists that hate them too? 

    the only explanation ive seen is jealousy of over all Jewish wealth and/or success ect

    the Jewish explanation is of course that it is the truth of Judaism that creates the hatred but that can apply to muslims and other religious groups to.

    thoughts? Huh?
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #1 - November 26, 2017, 06:12 AM

    i ve always been curious what cause it? learnt today that the Jews in Germany during the early C20th where the most integrated Jews in known history to western German culture yet the holocaust still happened?

    Religious hated is a good reason but i know atheists and non-religious conspiracy theorists that hate them too?  

    the only explanation ive seen is jealousy of over all Jewish wealth and/or success ect

    the Jewish explanation is of course that it is the truth of Judaism that creates the hatred but that can apply to muslims and other religious groups to.

    thoughts? Huh?

    Some Jews  also hate Juicily   Jews ............  





    by the way .,Christians and Muslims  they may shout that they are different from Jews BUT IN PRINCIPLE THEY ARE ALSO JEWISH SECTS

    and  Atheists  who hate faiths and faith heads are NOT Atheists,    A  real  Atheist  will not hate  faiths and faith heads............ S/he (the atheist) will pity the fools

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #2 - November 26, 2017, 06:50 AM

    Look up "the Jewish question" to get a better insight  into the way Jews were viewed at the time. See what Churchill had to say about Jews and integration; a lot of people claimed that Jews refused to integrate. There were conspiracy theories about how Jews held too much power and that there was an undercover Jewish plot to take over the world (featured in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion if you can stomach reading through a bunch of racist lies). Anti-Semites would claim that Jews were sly and dishonest because their religion taught them to be that way, conveniently forgetting that their own religion is just a tweaked copy of Judaism.

    Bottom line is that people have always found a way to blame the "other" for their society's woes. We see it now in almost every society; there is always a group that is hated above all other groups. There are times when other factors as economic hardship may lead to the hatred getting out of hand. This is what happened in Europe in the 20th century. Bear in mind that there were already pogroms against Jews before the Nazis came into power.
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #3 - November 27, 2017, 08:09 AM

    Hating Jews is a over a millenium old Catholic and then later also Orthodox and Protestant tradition.

    So it became ingrained into European cultures as a part of religious indoctrination and stayed there even as the religions lost control.

    It was how the secular post-revolution France handled the Dreyfus (Dreyfus was a French patriot who happened to be of Jewish heritage) affair that made Theodor Herzl, the guy considered the founder of Zionism, conclude that the Jews needed to have their own nation state to protect them.

    Also I think that how some Jewish groups/families have shown exceptional skills in banking, business and international organising - perhaps out of necessity because of their history of always risking to become the scapegoat - and also in modern times science, journalism and art has and is a source for jealousy over one's own lot in life.

    I can't imagine that if Northern Europe had stayed non-Christian that Jews would have been hated for a millenium here. Vikings would likely respect a skilled trader or craftsman (and of course plunder them if they didn't have the proper assurances set up, but that would not be because of anti-semitism...)

    So my personal conclusion is that it is primarily because of more than thousand years of religious intolerance which was easy to exploit politically.

    There used to be other groups to lash out against, but they weren't as useful as a scapegoat for a religious empire because they were local and eventually got christianised as Catholics (Vends, Prussians, Slavs, Cathars and likely many others).

    An interesting anecdote given the above is that we still use "kætter" as an everyday Danish word, meaning "unbeliever" or "blasphemer" here 800 years after the Cathars and their Catholic allies who stood by them were all drowned in their own blood in the Albigensian Crusade launched by the Catholic Church in the south of France. And the Cathars never had a presence in Denmark. But we still use that word daily. Because it entered our culture though religious indoctrination.

    Another anecdote I've come across (can't remember the source) was something about how wealthy Jewish businessmen around 1900 withdraw some funding for public accessible hospitals for the poor in London and instead funded Jewish hospitals set up to help Jews fleeing pogroms in Russia. I guess that didn't help their reputation, but that reputation was only there to be exploited because of the hundreds of years of religious indoctrination.

    My 2 øre.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #4 - November 29, 2017, 07:26 PM

    http://www.aish.com/sem/wtj/?mobile=yes

    This Jewish website seams to think that the truth of Judaism is the cause of the hatred....but i belive it does not go into nuances of some of the ideas it critisies
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #5 - December 20, 2017, 07:33 AM

    The idea of jews controlling the banks (I'm mentioning this because jews and banks seems to always be the central theme) came from the idea that interest was a sin, so put the jews in banks, as they don't have souls, and even if they do, they have jewish souls, so who cares.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #6 - December 28, 2017, 10:51 PM

    Well, as Nikolaj said antisemitism has anchored in Christianity like it is in Islam.

    It was Judas and the Jews who betrayed Jesus.

    Also in the past it was forbidden for Jews to work with skilled trades, such as, shoemaker, carpenter and so on. However, they were allowed to take interest, which was forbidden for Christians. So Christians were borrowing money from them. And since they took interest and worked with money they soon got the label of greedy Jews.

    Actually Martin Luther the founder of the evangelical faith could be consider an antisemit these days.
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #7 - December 30, 2017, 02:53 PM

    ^ Cheesy

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #8 - January 01, 2018, 03:07 PM

    Why Quoad did I write something wrong ?
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #9 - January 01, 2018, 03:12 PM

    Anti-Semitism definitely has it's origins in religion - both Christianity & Islam. Things like wealth, influence, politics are just elements that have been used to confirm/rationalise this phenomenon. Even those who are not religious can be subject to this deep rooted mentality that has existed for two millennia.

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #10 - January 02, 2018, 01:50 PM

    Quote
    Well, as Nikolaj said antisemitism has anchored in Christianity like it is in Islam.

    It was Judas and the Jews who betrayed Jesus.

    Quote
    Also in the past it was forbidden for Jews to work with skilled trades, such as, shoemaker, carpenter and so on. However, they were allowed to take interest, which was forbidden for Christians. So Christians were borrowing money from them. And since they took interest and worked with money they soon got the label of greedy Jews.


    Actually Martin Luther the founder of the evangelical faith could be consider an antisemit these days.

    ^ Cheesy


    Why Quoad did I write something wrong ?



    hi ElToro  ...I would appreciate some references  of  old  literature  on those words of yours ...  also your comments on  these wiki links


    Antisemitic canards

    Antisemitic publications

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #11 - February 06, 2018, 03:08 PM

    Why Quoad did I write something wrong ?

     Let's start with Judas. Can we agree he's a mythic figure?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #12 - February 10, 2018, 08:50 AM

    Yes, for sure. I think that Jesus is a mythic figure as well.
    However, that does my statement invalid, because Christians believe in Jesus and Judas.
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #13 - February 10, 2018, 03:16 PM

    Yes, for sure. I think that Jesus is a mythic figure as well.
    However, that does my statement invalid, because Christians believe in Jesus and Judas.


    no.....nooo........noooooooo.,    that  belief of  Christians does NOT make your statement invalid.,  but what it makes is faith heads believe lots of silly stories and it goes to all faiths...  

    Anyways on the same  note  I can easily say Moses of Exodus  and Muhammad of  Quran also  mythic figures.......
    Quote
    “Moses himself has about as much historic reality as King Arthur,”......  

    and that that the exodus was “at best a refracted folk memory of earlier expulsions of Levantine people” following the reconquest of the Nile delta by the Egyptian king Ahmose around 1530BC. This date is about 900 years earlier than the period in which the Hebrew Bible is supposed to have been codified and written down, including its first five books that were supposedly written by Moses himself.

    " There is no archaeological evidence for the biblical story, and certainly no extra-biblical evidence, in Egyptian inscriptions. Not even the Bible account claims that the Israelites were employed as slaves to build the pyramids as they are in Hollywood. They are simply slaves."



    i didn't say that but as a kid i used to run around graves and dargahs and believe tons  of nonsense...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #14 - February 20, 2018, 09:23 AM

    Long story.  First off, Jews were the only ones in Catholic controlled europe who were allowed to be non-catholic.  They lived in segregated communities and had their own culture and were secretive about it.

    Second-  The Catholic church forbade charging interest on loans for catholics.  So the only ones who could be bankers were jews.   Naturally, being surrounded by people who hated and feared them, they would rip off catholics.  And despite being isolated minorities, some were much more wealthy then your avergae catholic.

    After the Protestant reformation, German bankers started competing with them, and spread anti-jewish propaganda. 

    All these factors made them easy targets for old tie versions of conspiracy theorists.  You want to make a new movement, like the enlightnement look bad, say it was a jewish plot.

    Finally, a particular Jewish family, the Rothschilds, who grew very influential and powerful, were legitimately pretty shady.  The Nazis used them as the model for what all jews were like.


    Also generally, jews were highly educated and successful in business, and people tend to hate when minorities in their own countries do better then them.
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #15 - February 20, 2018, 09:29 AM

    My theory on wh jews had better education.business success.  Two things.

    1.  Circumcision.  Back in the day this would have been a form of natural selection, as only babies with strong immune systems would survive the process without dying of infection.

    2.  Kosher laws.  Basically old hygiene laws.  Though silly today, at the time before anyone knew anything about germs, it would have prevented people from getting sick.

    Combine 1 and 2 above, and people live longer,m which means more accumulated wisdom is passed down.

    3.  The torah.  Literacy was taught at an early societal stage, increasing edcuation levels.

    4.  Strict cultural rules, preserving a distinct cultural identity which allowed jews to idenitfy each other and in the context of a larger non-jewish society, establish business contacts out of neccesity, which combined with education and banking, creating networks of skilled middle class before such a thing exited in europe.

  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #16 - February 20, 2018, 01:58 PM

    “Whenever a Jew is killed, it is for the benefit of Islam.”....  
    by   Ahmad al-Fārūqī al-Sirhindī (1564–1624)   Naqshbandī Sufi order  .


     


    Wherever and whenever  there was a antisemitism  on  this earth,  
    there was a viral strain of Islam behind it..

       .... yeezevee 2018...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #17 - Yesterday at 01:25 PM

    Coming from an arab country hatred of Jews is embedded into the Arab and Muslim mind by the hateful ideology of Islam. I find all the myths of Jews being evil and prophet and child killers and rulers of the world infact fit with the Muslims more then anyone else. You can't even insult Muslims on the media yet Israel and Jews are constantly on the front page that's something to think about. Also another fact why no US president while he was actually president never defied Saudi in any way.
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #18 - Yesterday at 01:34 PM

    the term antisemitism itself refers to critics based on ideology but surely it comes out of the hatred that comes out of bible and quran but the strange thing i see is that once you be critical about islam it wont be refered as anti-islamism it becomes islamophobia and anti-muslim i think if some one come up with the same argument he or she should be dealing with the analogy of islamophobia and homophobia so that the islamophobia term can actually be discussed with honesty but as long as antisemitism is concerned its a broad context and could be argued with jews and they wont back off on this rather i think they will come up with constructive argument and debate the causes ofcourse in my eyes in muslim world comes out of quran and in western world because of their financial position and control over american politics and wall street
  • antisemitism cause?
     Reply #19 - Yesterday at 01:37 PM

    I'm against the term anti Semite since I myself am a Semite I personally use the term anti Jewish or anti Jewist to refer to people who have anti Jewish ideas or feelings.
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