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Theme Changer

 Topic: Peter Hitchens

 (Read 4526 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Peter Hitchens
     OP - October 11, 2017, 11:41 AM
    Do any of you know much about him other than him being Chitopher Hitchens brother?
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #1 - October 11, 2017, 03:56 PM
    Both Peter and Christopher are sons of a WW2 British naval officer.   Their mother committed suicide.   Peter conservative and a professed Christian,  Christopher ... well, something quite different.   The 2 brothers have debated publicly in prior years.   It didn't look like a warm relationship.

    Peter, apart from being outspoken on immigration and an advocate for traditional conservatism spent a number of years living in Russia.  I believe he speaks Russian - and he has spoken in defense of Putin and Russia's 'legitimate' (please note quotes)ninterests in places like the Ukraine.
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #2 - October 11, 2017, 04:02 PM
    Quote from: Unifier on October 11, 2017, 03:56 PM
    Both Peter and Christopher are sons of a WW2 British naval officer.   Their mother committed suicide.   Peter conservative and a professed Christian,  Christopher ... well, something quite different.   The 2 brothers have debated publicly in prior years.   It didn't look like a warm relationship.

    Peter, apart from being outspoken on immigration and an advocate for traditional conservatism spent a number of years living in Russia.  I believe he speaks Russian - and he has spoken in defense of Putin and Russia's 'legitimate' (please note quotes)ninterests in places like the Ukraine.


    So he is the kinda asshole his Brother talked about......dam I whish i saw a Hitchslap post 2011  Cry
    R.I.P CH......whish i and this fourm would have been grased by your presence
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #3 - October 11, 2017, 06:12 PM
    I would disagree that Peter Hitchens is an asshole, although I frequently disagree with his views.  He strikes me as one of those who were born in the wrong era, he should really be back in the Edwardian age holding doors open for women and tutting about Home Rule for Ireland.  For all that, he raises some interesting subjects in his writings that most other writers won't touch, eg the connection between drug abuse, mental illness and so called jihadi attacks.  Even though his brother was always more the type of person who I agreed with, I have to admit that Peter is the more talented writer of the two, I'd recommend you read some of his stuff before you write him off as an asshole.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #4 - October 11, 2017, 06:31 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on October 11, 2017, 06:12 PM
    I would disagree that Peter Hitchens is an asshole, although I frequently disagree with his views.  He strikes me as one of those who were born in the wrong era, he should really be back in the Edwardian age holding doors open for women and tutting about Home Rule for Ireland.  For all that, he raises some interesting subjects in his writings that most other writers won't touch, eg the connection between drug abuse, mental illness and so called jihadi attacks.  Even though his brother was always more the type of person who I agreed with, I have to admit that Peter is the more talented writer of the two, I'd recommend you read some of his stuff before you write him off as an asshole.



    Will do but if i hear the same rubbish i get from other christain apologists then it will be a waste
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #5 - October 11, 2017, 06:32 PM
    And ive not really got a dog in the race with the troubles but Home rule for Ireland and go fuck off down the pub.
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #6 - October 11, 2017, 06:34 PM
    ^Sounds good to me.   Afro
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #7 - October 11, 2017, 06:35 PM
    "So called jihady attacks" is that ment to indicate he is a false flag beliver?
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #8 - October 11, 2017, 06:38 PM
    No, it means he thinks Islam isn't the only - or even the most important - cause of many of these lone jihadi types.  He makes the case far better than I do, it'd be better to read him in his own words.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #9 - October 11, 2017, 06:43 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on October 11, 2017, 06:12 PM
    the connection between drug abuse, mental illness and so called jihadi attacks. 


    Glad to hear him make that connection as it is something I have thought about too. My son has been suffering from mental illness for the past 12 years and been in and out of hospital several times. I have had the opportunity to become very familiar with the mental health environment in London.  There is a disproportionate number of young Muslims in these hospitals (st Charles st Anne's St Marys The Gordon Chase farm Barnet Hendon. ..) most if not all suffering from forms of drug induced schizophrenia & delusions - many with religious delusions and identity problems. They are vulnerable people just ripe for ISIS and I can't help wondering if they do target such people. Or even are people who have been targeted by them. I remember one afro Caribbean guy dressed in Salafi garb screaming "I'm not a Muslim anymore more. Leave me alone."
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #10 - October 11, 2017, 06:46 PM
    I'm sorry to hear that Hassan, I hope he gets all the help he needs. 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #11 - October 11, 2017, 06:47 PM
    From my liitle knowlage on Mental illness (no more about social issues) people who are raised on relgious belifes wither muslim chrit or hindu see anglic,demonic or god like voices in there head with Mental illness or high drug use but peoplw from non religoius backgrounds tend to see more monster or non religious voices such as there parents ect instead
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #12 - October 11, 2017, 06:54 PM
    Quote from: Unifier on October 11, 2017, 03:56 PM
    Their mother committed suicide.


    Let's also keep in mind she was a German jew fleeing the Nazis, something which surely must of had an impact on the boys growing up.

    They actually have far more in common than would appear at first glance, and I say this knowing that when they were children, they fought to the point their father made them both sign a peace treaty. Both Hitchens brothers are incredibly alike in ways that one may not see at fist glance. Both believe in democracy and the rights of the individual. Both believe in Western values. Both have fierce moral centres that define their actions and world view. Both agree (as far as the majority goes) on the ills that plague the modern world, They agree on far more than they disagree. Where they do disagree, where they diverge, is the source of their disagreements. Peter Hitchens will say how terrible it is that we've got to a point that opening the paper and reading about how some poor fucker has had their head kicked in as if were a football by some evil cunt is a common occurrence, and how horrible it is, and point out the ills in society, and Christopher will echo in agreement every point made, except when it comes to the idea that religion is the cure.

    If you really want to explore this topic, best to hear from the brothers themselves.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngjQs_QjSwc&t=399s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVsQNi_lDr8&t=122s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOhl1k071S0
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #13 - October 11, 2017, 07:00 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on October 11, 2017, 06:46 PM
    I'm sorry to hear that Hassan, I hope he gets all the help he needs. 


    Thanks Cheetah *hugs*
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #14 - October 11, 2017, 07:09 PM
    Quote from: Philowolf on October 11, 2017, 06:47 PM
    From my liitle knowlage on Mental illness (no more about social issues) people who are raised on relgious belifes wither muslim chrit or hindu see anglic,demonic or god like voices in there head with Mental illness or high drug use but peoplw from non religoius backgrounds tend to see more monster or non religious voices such as there parents ect instead


    Interesting fact, a few years ago there was a study released by one of those ivy league universities (I think it was MIT but I'm not sure) that children raised to be religious were less able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality than children raised in non religious environments.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #15 - October 11, 2017, 07:11 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on October 11, 2017, 07:00 PM
    Thanks Cheetah *hugs*

     far away hug
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #16 - October 11, 2017, 07:21 PM
     far away hug

    Hugs everyone
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #17 - October 11, 2017, 07:26 PM
    I think it would be a mistake to say Peter is an arsehole just on the titles of his views without reading the context. Immigration for example, he makes some good points on why we should limit it (limit it, not stop it) that have nothing to do with racism or xenophobia but are purely practical. We should be able to honestly discuss this without going to extreme simply because of what "side" we take.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #18 - October 11, 2017, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 11, 2017, 06:54 PM
    ...................................

    If you really want to explore this topic, best to hear from the brothers themselves.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngjQs_QjSwc&t=399s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVsQNi_lDr8&t=122s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOhl1k071S0

    dear QSE., thank you for  making me   remember  one of the  great persons of 20/21st century interface who influenced me and many folks in many ways including my work...  In June 2010  he was diagnosed  with esophageal cancer  and he died on  15 December 2011..  Even with all that physical pain  in his last 1 1/2 year or so he never backed off debating faith heads and educating innumerable folks around  the globe through internet .  I say to folks to watch his interviews and debates after he was diagnosed with esophageal cancer
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B06tiTwAuvg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIVEsa2g4ag
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLLh5-ewcD0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkAMOrnyy30
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypK1CwPVz1c

    with best wishes
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #19 - October 11, 2017, 07:37 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 11, 2017, 07:26 PM
    I think it would be a mistake to say Peter is an arsehole just on the titles of his views without reading the context. Immigration for example, he makes some good points on why we should limit it (limit it, not stop it) that have nothing to do with racism or xenophobia but are purely practical. We should be able to honestly discuss this without going to extreme simply because of what "side" we take.


    I agree with controled immgration too......i ment the religion part hes prob an apologist
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #20 - October 11, 2017, 07:43 PM
    I've rarely seen Peter Hitchens mention religion other than in debates with his brother.   He clearly has Anglican beliefs but he mostly writes about politics and social issues.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #21 - October 11, 2017, 09:02 PM
    He's like a lot of western (or at least European) christians. He doesn't hold to his religion to the extremes the yanks do. It's funny that by our standards he's a bit conservative, yet by American standards he's quite liberal. Course, you could compare him to European muslims, but let's not go there for this post. Unless there are any takers?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #22 - October 11, 2017, 09:55 PM
    Peter Hitchens 'Why I Like Vladimir Putin' at the University of Bristol

    (My suit is so much more awesome than his. And his brother's. And Richard Dawkins. And everyone else you could name. Including Iron Man.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeO44STvnJw
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #23 - October 11, 2017, 10:10 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 11, 2017, 07:26 PM
    I think it would be a mistake to say Peter is an arsehole just on the titles of his views without reading the context. Immigration for example, he makes some good points on why we should limit it (limit it, not stop it) that have nothing to do with racism or xenophobia but are purely practical. We should be able to honestly discuss this without going to extreme simply because of what "side" we take.


    I always wonder what people mean by controlled immigration (queue my ignorance). I certainly would rather be living here than back in the villages of the land of pure. My parents' generation were hardly high skilled immigrants so I guess they came in during this much criticised period of what people call 'mass immigration'.
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #24 - October 11, 2017, 10:31 PM
    Sure, and I'm glad to be here than back "home" where I'd have 20 kids. In fact, my grandma was one of 17, my granddad was one of 13, and I have an great aunt (grandma's sister) who gave birth 20 times. It's a fucking backward country with an almost theocracy and an American Repuplican's dream. Am I glad my family immigrated to England and gave birth to me here? Fuck yes. But this "Who here is the child or grandchild of immigrants? Exactly!" is bullshit. Exactly? Exactly what? What the fuck does this have to do with the points made on why we should have controlled immigration?

    Ward_End, please tell me exactly what your point is, since you responded. My family also came because of work. And?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #25 - October 11, 2017, 10:47 PM
    If I could just butt in here for a second to answer Ward End's original question about what people mean by controlled immigration - they mean freedom of movement from other EU countries.  Immigration from Pakistan has always been under the control of the UK government, its not Pakistanis they're talking about when you hear people complaining about uncontrolled immigration. 

    Actually in some cases it probably is, but mostly uncontrolled immigration is made as a complaint about being in the EU rather than immigration from anywhere outside Europe.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #26 - October 11, 2017, 10:50 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 11, 2017, 10:31 PM
    Sure, and I'm glad to be here than back "home" where I'd have 20 kids. In fact, my grandma was one of 17, my granddad was one of 13, and I have an great aunt (grandma's sister) who gave birth 20 times. It's a fucking backward country with an almost theocracy and an American Repuplican's dream. Am I glad my family immigrated to England and gave birth to me here? Fuck yes. But this "Who here is the child or grandchild of immigrants? Exactly!" is bullshit. Exactly? Exactly what? What the fuck does this have to do with the points made on why we should have controlled immigration?

    Ward_End, please tell me exactly what your point is, since you responded. My family also came because of work. And?


    Question - do you think Pakistan would be, as you call it, a "fucking backward country" if the ambitious young people who want a better life stayed there and pushed for change instead of emigrating?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #27 - October 11, 2017, 11:13 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 11, 2017, 10:31 PM
    Sure, and I'm glad to be here than back "home" where I'd have 20 kids. In fact, my grandma was one of 17, my granddad was one of 13, and I have an great aunt (grandma's sister) who gave birth 20 times. It's a fucking backward country with an almost theocracy and an American Repuplican's dream. Am I glad my family immigrated to England and gave birth to me here? Fuck yes. But this "Who here is the child or grandchild of immigrants? Exactly!" is bullshit. Exactly? Exactly what? What the fuck does this have to do with the points made on why we should have controlled immigration?

    Ward_End, please tell me exactly what your point is, since you responded. My family also came because of work. And?


    I was just being curious about what people meant when complaining about immigration or mass immigration and just bringing my own anecdote. No major point, I don't think  lipsrsealed
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #28 - October 11, 2017, 11:22 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on October 11, 2017, 10:47 PM
    If I could just butt in here for a second to answer Ward End's original question about what people mean by controlled immigration - they mean freedom of movement from other EU countries.  Immigration from Pakistan has always been under the control of the UK government, its not Pakistanis they're talking about when you hear people complaining about uncontrolled immigration. 

    Actually in some cases it probably is, but mostly uncontrolled immigration is made as a complaint about being in the EU rather than immigration from anywhere outside Europe.


    Yeah, it does seem that EU migration is the talk of the town in general when you read the news. But from personal experience, it's 'mass Muslim migration' that I hear people most vociferously berate, for all sorts of reasons from being backward religious folk (usually from atheists) to having no place in a 'Christian country'. I remember the day after the EU Referendum when one very angry looking middle aged man shouted on BBC News why he voted the way he voted. 'It's all about Muslim immigration!'. I don't know how much control the EU has over 'Muslim immigration' but it's something people shout about a lot, at least around the most colourful circles I've noticed in the social media world  wacko
  • Peter Hitchens
     Reply #29 - October 11, 2017, 11:24 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on October 11, 2017, 10:50 PM
    Question - do you think Pakistan would be, as you call it, a "fucking backward country" if the ambitious young people who want a better life stayed there and pushed for change instead of emigrating?

    I'm not talking about Pakistan. But if you want to focus on that country for some reason, as far as your question goes, yes.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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