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 Topic: Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women

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  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     OP - August 21, 2017, 03:00 PM
    A friend of my mothers discovered that her husband has a family in a different city a few days ago. She is understandably devastated. He was a poor husband to begin with, just sending her checks every month, seldom being around and even verbally abusive. They were in an arranged marriage and his wife tried to make it work despite the differences. He got to go off and start another family in secret when he was done with her but she kept the stove warm for him like an obedient wife.

    He's offering to divorce her now, that too on the damn phone because he's with his other family. He also wants child custody because his kids are above 7 although not sure if that will happen.  He married her, used her and then left her and she got literally nothing in return.

    There's so much pressure on Muslim women to accept this stuff to be good muslimah's and even claim they are perfectly happy with it because God ordained. It really breaks me to see this happen to good women who deserved so so much more than what they got.
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #1 - August 22, 2017, 02:03 AM
    This is not exclusive to Islamic marriages. I experienced it frequently as an African American woman across religious lines. The notion of what it means to be a "good Black woman" means you put up with a whole lot of crap. And perhaps as you are taking your last breaths and after putting you through a whole lot of hell you husband will speak about what a wonderful woman you are. In the mean time, you are not a "good Black woman" if you dare criticize for this treatment.

    And just when I make comments about this to my non-Black friends, I find that women of every religious, racial and cultural background have some version of this nonsense drilled into there heads. I have a friend whose husband pulled a John Edward's. Got a woman pregnant while she was suffering through breast cancer. Unlike Elizabeth Edwards, thankfully, she lived. I have another whose husband got another woman pregnant while she was pregnant.

    We need a revolution for women globally. But we refuse to stick together. Lysistrata 2017 needs to take place.

    There is this tribe of women in Kenya, the Samburu, who set up a village where men are banned. And the men have the nerve to wonder why the women want nothing to do with them. Let's just look at the last few thousand years.
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing" -Edmund Burke
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #2 - August 22, 2017, 04:52 AM
    Yes. I would rather be right than be good now.
    My mother in law explained to a thousand times if she explained to me once that "women were born to suffer". If she meant Muslim women she would have said it.
    Unfortunately Islamic laws make some things permissible that seem especially hard on a woman, with unequal status in marriage and inheritance and etc.
    These same things happen in non-Muslim communities, just without legal parameters. Mistress instead of wife,  etc.
    I am sorry for your mother's friend. I hope she realizes she got shafted and begins to indulge herself.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #3 - August 22, 2017, 02:51 PM
    Quote from: Gnostic on August 22, 2017, 02:03 AM
    This is not exclusive to Islamic marriages. I experienced it frequently as an African American woman across religious lines. The notion of what it means to be a "good Black woman" means you put up with a whole lot of crap. And perhaps as you are taking your last breaths and after putting you through a whole lot of hell you husband will speak about what a wonderful woman you are. In the mean time, you are not a "good Black woman" if you dare criticize for this treatment.

    And just when I make comments about this to my non-Black friends, I find that women of every religious, racial and cultural background have some version of this nonsense drilled into there heads. I have a friend whose husband pulled a John Edward's. Got a woman pregnant while she was suffering through breast cancer. Unlike Elizabeth Edwards, thankfully, she lived. I have another whose husband got another woman pregnant while she was pregnant.

    We need a revolution for women globally. But we refuse to stick together. Lysistrata 2017 needs to take place.

    There is this tribe of women in Kenya, the Samburu, who set up a village where men are banned. And the men have the nerve to wonder why the women want nothing to do with them. Let's just look at the last few thousand years.


    The Samburu are inspirational!
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #4 - August 22, 2017, 03:04 PM
    Quote from: three on August 22, 2017, 04:52 AM
    Yes. I would rather be right than be good now.
    My mother in law explained to a thousand times if she explained to me once that "women were born to suffer". If she meant Muslim women she would have said it.
    Unfortunately Islamic laws make some things permissible that seem especially hard on a woman, with unequal status in marriage and inheritance and etc.
    These same things happen in non-Muslim communities, just without legal parameters. Mistress instead of wife,  etc.
    I am sorry for your mother's friend. I hope she realizes she got shafted and begins to indulge herself.



    I agree but I have two disagreements

    1) A mistress is not culturally accepted. Most people consider having a mistress wrong. In a few states, there are alienation of affection laws. Muslim women are forced to put up with polygamy because God prescribed it and they have to be good Muslimahs and accept it or risk going to hell. One woman I know was guilt tripped into looking for a second wife for her husband. There's a lot of emotional blackmail involved as well as manipulation and gaslighting where even if you hate the idea of sharing your husband you are made to feel awful for voicing it. Second marriage is also not seen as grounds for khula.

    2) In the west at least, the woman can divorce, obtain child custody and alimony. Under Islamic law getting a khula is difficult. In some cases the woman is left in limbo because the husband won't grant her one or she can't return the mehr. Child custody is a grey area and in many places, the child goes to the father after a certain age. .Alimony is another grey area and often Muslim women get nothing. I know of women who worked but everything was in the husband's name and they got nothing after their marrriage. Also if you remarry the kids go directly to the first husband.

    There are legal and social implications of how women are affected due to Islamic marriage laws which IMO are way worse than anything in the west.
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #5 - August 22, 2017, 04:14 PM
    Quote from: YinYang on August 22, 2017, 03:04 PM
    I agree but I have two disagreements

    1) A mistress is not culturally accepted. Most people consider having a mistress wrong. In a few states, there are alienation of affection laws. Muslim women are forced to put up with polygamy because God prescribed it and they have to be good Muslimahs and accept it or risk going to hell. One woman I know was guilt tripped into looking for a second wife for her husband. There's a lot of emotional blackmail involved as well as manipulation and gaslighting where even if you hate the idea of sharing your husband you are made to feel awful for voicing it. Second marriage is also not seen as grounds for khula.

    2) In the west at least, the woman can divorce, obtain child custody and alimony. Under Islamic law getting a khula is difficult. In some cases the woman is left in limbo because the husband won't grant her one or she can't return the mehr. Child custody is a grey area and in many places, the child goes to the father after a certain age. .Alimony is another grey area and often Muslim women get nothing. I know of women who worked but everything was in the husband's name and they got nothing after their marrriage. Also if you remarry the kids go directly to the first husband.

    There are legal and social implications of how women are affected due to Islamic marriage laws which IMO are way worse than anything in the west.


    Islam is far from the only culture that socially accepts both mistresses and wives in the name of God. Here in the US we have an actual TV show called "Sister Wives" about polygamy in Mormon culture. This occurs in some African cultures. And all of these wives are supposedly prescribed by God.  Mistresses are socially accepted in many cultures, but granted not as overt. For example, mistresses are accepted in the Italian mob.

    Basically, it just sucks being a woman. I become more and more convinced. If there is a God, it must be male and he hates women.
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing" -Edmund Burke
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #6 - August 22, 2017, 04:23 PM
    Quote from: Gnostic on August 22, 2017, 04:14 PM
    Islam is far from the only culture that socially accepts both mistresses and wives in the name of God. ................

    dear Gnostic   greetings and my good wishes to you .,  

    Islam is NOT culture., Islam is faith, Religion  whose rules and regulations for family life /political life or any other life of a person based upon certain so-called scriptures/books

    with best regards
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #7 - August 22, 2017, 07:52 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 22, 2017, 04:23 PM
    dear Gnostic   greetings and my good wishes to you .,  

    Islam is NOT culture., Islam is faith, Religion  whose rules and regulations for family life /political life or any other life of a person based upon certain so-called scriptures/books

    with best regards
    yeezevee


    True. And the same applies to the Christian sects that support, condone polygamy, domestic violence, submissiveness of wives etc based on the Bible. In the United States, we have people trying to little make the Bible our Constitution. The only thing keeping them in check is there are enough of us who are secularist when it comes to religion and politics.
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing" -Edmund Burke
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #8 - August 22, 2017, 08:46 PM
    Quote from: Gnostic on August 22, 2017, 07:52 PM
    ............ And the same applies to the Christian sects that support, condone polygamy, domestic violence, submissiveness of wives etc based on the Bible. ................

    off course ..any faith ..any sect and any faith head that take their silly god words and  condone polygamy, domestic violence, submissiveness of women folks ..etc...etc...should be taken gutters and baptize them again as human beings...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #9 - August 23, 2017, 02:11 AM
    Quote from: YinYang on August 22, 2017, 03:04 PM
    I agree but I have two disagreements

    1) A mistress is not culturally accepted. Most people consider having a mistress wrong. In a few states, there are alienation of affection laws. Muslim women are forced to put up with polygamy because God prescribed it and they have to be good Muslimahs and accept it or risk going to hell. One woman I know was guilt tripped into looking for a second wife for her husband. There's a lot of emotional blackmail involved as well as manipulation and gaslighting where even if you hate the idea of sharing your husband you are made to feel awful for voicing it. Second marriage is also not seen as grounds for khula.

    2) In the west at least, the woman can divorce, obtain child custody and alimony. Under Islamic law getting a khula is difficult. In some cases the woman is left in limbo because the husband won't grant her one or she can't return the mehr. Child custody is a grey area and in many places, the child goes to the father after a certain age. .Alimony is another grey area and often Muslim women get nothing. I know of women who worked but everything was in the husband's name and they got nothing after their marrriage. Also if you remarry the kids go directly to the first husband.

    There are legal and social implications of how women are affected due to Islamic marriage laws which IMO are way worse than anything in the west.


    I think it sucks for every woman, really, and I agree with you that the laws are worse for women in Muslim countries. Patriarchy affects us all. The courts in the US could use some tweaking for certain, because women are not necessarily going to be provided for, and sometimes they are when they should not be. Our court system seems to be influenced by the grade of attorney more than anything else and that is ultimately about the income of the individual retaining the attorney.

    Where I live mistresses might not be welcome at the family barbecue but there is no legal issue or repercussion from keeping an unlimited quantity of them..
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #10 - August 23, 2017, 02:29 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 22, 2017, 08:46 PM
    off course ..any faith ..any sect and any faith head that take their silly god words and  condone polygamy, domestic violence, submissiveness of women folks ..etc...etc...should be taken gutters and baptize them again as human beings...


    If only there were a "like" button. That's all I was trying to get at. Wholeheartedly agree.
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing" -Edmund Burke
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #11 - August 23, 2017, 02:31 AM
    I need a like button for yeezevee, too. Our resident Master.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #12 - August 23, 2017, 07:25 AM
    What you're talking about is, in essence, patriarchy. As long as a system upholds patriarchy, it can per defenition not be feminist. Or just. Or equal. That's why Islamic feminism is an "enemy within", because you have women and men who try to disguise patriarchy and misogyny as "liberating" and "women's rights" by legitimizing it with the word "feminist". It makes me more appalled than if they just owned up to their actual beliefs and values.

    But as you've alreay taken notice, patriarchy comes in many forms, it all boils down to the same basic ideas. Patriarchy can be institutionalized, in various forms and degrees. Islamic religious laws are inatitutionalized, legally, around the world. But I'd say that Islamic religious laws have some sort of life of their own, because despite not being the official legal system of the country, its adherents chose to act and live by it as if it where. Not to forget, even though the legal system changes, its affect on people's lives doesn't just disappear. It might become less overt, but it's still there. Values, ideas, and the everyday actions, behaviour and consequences for women that are argued to be "natural", logical, and common sense. And it goes on. It's the culture, values, and norms of the society

    They did a study about parental leave, wage differences and attitudes in Danish workplaces some years ago. Despite being one of the most "gender equal" countries in the world, there were quite someobvious gender inequalities in the workplace in question. Despite the workplace defining itself to cater to gender equality. The higher ups reaction to questions about gender equality was, "what more do women want?". It's even the title of the dissertation....

    So, what more do women want. Isn't that what Muslim scholars say when talking about women and their "rights". Funny, isn't it. That a Muslim fundamentalist and a self-identifying Danish feminist ask themselves the same question. "What more do women want?"...
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #13 - August 23, 2017, 10:26 AM
    Quote from: Cornflower on August 23, 2017, 07:25 AM
    ....................Islamic feminism.....................

     Cheesy  words like   .Islamic feminism.....  .. .Islamic humanism.....  ((from Islam or from any faith)) are oxymorons of highest quality .,

    these faith  heads who talk/support faith based  "Isms" that have qualities of universal  humanism.,.,    either they are trying to modernize their faith rules or living in  their faith with  that Cognitive Dissonance  or they are living with lies  or or lying to others ..

    look at this case .. how much trouble  women go through/have to go through  just because some cave dwelling fools wrote some nonsense in the name of so-called their faith god ..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McXGxlosIvQ

    and that is from India.,  Imagine if it is from FULLY ISLAMIZED NATIONS with faith rules .,   there woman folks coming on to TV itself is prohibited

    These oxymoron  faith heads who support such nonsense as  .Islamic feminism.....  .. .Islamic humanism.....   have to be educated and if needed mock them and move on,,  Fools living in these so-called faiths/religions do not even realize that origins of  these faiths are  all  about concepts/hypothesis to enquire on the "EXISTENCE OF  THAT ALL CONTROLLING  ALL POWERFUL super duper god"
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #14 - August 23, 2017, 11:12 AM
    Islamic feminism

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyCm4XdMCfg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dx7j3XdaU4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTTJF3aPeok

    https://www.facebook.com/YassminAbdelMagied/?fref=mentions
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #15 - August 23, 2017, 08:40 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO47rUUEpZY

    My goodness Indian Muslim women are on the march.. 
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #16 - August 24, 2017, 01:30 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on August 23, 2017, 07:25 AM
    What you're talking about is, in essence, patriarchy. As long as a system upholds patriarchy, it can per defenition not be feminist. Or just. Or equal. That's why Islamic feminism is an "enemy within", because you have women and men who try to disguise patriarchy and misogyny as "liberating" and "women's rights" by legitimizing it with the word "feminist". It makes me more appalled than if they just owned up to their actual beliefs and values.

    But as you've alreay taken notice, patriarchy comes in many forms, it all boils down to the same basic ideas. Patriarchy can be institutionalized, in various forms and degrees. Islamic religious laws are inatitutionalized, legally, around the world. But I'd say that Islamic religious laws have some sort of life of their own, because despite not being the official legal system of the country, its adherents chose to act and live by it as if it where. Not to forget, even though the legal system changes, its affect on people's lives doesn't just disappear. It might become less overt, but it's still there. Values, ideas, and the everyday actions, behaviour and consequences for women that are argued to be "natural", logical, and common sense. And it goes on. It's the culture, values, and norms of the society

    They did a study about parental leave, wage differences and attitudes in Danish workplaces some years ago. Despite being one of the most "gender equal" countries in the world, there were quite someobvious gender inequalities in the workplace in question. Despite the workplace defining itself to cater to gender equality. The higher ups reaction to questions about gender equality was, "what more do women want?". It's even the title of the dissertation....

    So, what more do women want. Isn't that what Muslim scholars say when talking about women and their "rights". Funny, isn't it. That a Muslim fundamentalist and a self-identifying Danish feminist ask themselves the same question. "What more do women want?"...


    What are the tenants for Islamic feminism? I need to read up more on it. Is it about reform in Islam or is it about justifying oppression.
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing" -Edmund Burke
  • Islamic marriage laws are shaped to control and manipulate women
     Reply #17 - August 24, 2017, 02:32 PM
    Islamic feminism is basically women (and some men?) saying that Islam supports women's rights and that Islam came and gave women rights when no one else did. There are even som progressives and modernists who go so far as to ignore and dismiss the hadith and certain parts of the Quran to support their claim. But you can find a munaqqabah say the same thing, that Islam is "truly feminist". They don't really have any "tenants" per say. It's just their claims, supported by mental gymnastics and the fact that they more or less ignore what fundamental feminist ideas say about patriarchy.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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