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 Topic: What came first? The heavens or earth?

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  • What came first? The heavens or earth?
     OP - July 29, 2017, 12:50 PM

    Are you a more difficult creation or is the heaven? Allah constructed it.

    He raised its ceiling and proportioned it.

    And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness.

    And after that He spread the earth

    (Qur'an 79:27-30)

    And He placed on the earth firmly set mountains over its surface, and He blessed it and determined therein its [creatures'] sustenance in four days without distinction - for [the information] of those who ask.

    Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."

    And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

    (41:10-12)

    Also, what does "ثُمَّ" (Thumma) mean?  Islam sites like [this](https://qurananswers.me/2013/12/22/six-days-of-creation/) claim - "thumma does not necessarily have a sequence and can be simultaneous and or moreover"
  • What came first? The heavens or earth?
     Reply #1 - July 29, 2017, 08:29 PM
    im not arab so cant confirm the Thumma issue, but it always feels like a new translation of key words
    appears after the contradiction is highlighted.

    But the thing to note about the verses about the earth and the heavens is that Allah claims to have made the
    heavens in 2 days and the earth in 4 (or 6 depending on how you read it.)

    so ignoring what the word "day" actually represents(another new translation of the word)

    Allah is saying it took him twice as long to create the earth as it did the heavens. 

    Surely thats got to be the smoking gun.

    im not sure how they can re translate that one,
    but then again people can be quite creative when their faith is on the line
    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
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