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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Cult of Social Justice

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  • The Cult of Social Justice
     OP - July 19, 2017, 02:02 AM

    I'm becoming increasingly disturbed by the adherence of certain admins and members of this forum to a dangerous and harmful cult, the cult of Social Justice. Although the cult has many faces it uses for recruitment of different subsets of the population (BLM, BAMN, intersectional feminism, antifa, etc.) the core ideology is the same. So I want to go through a thorough breakdown of why Social Justice is a cult, what its articles of faith are, and why I find the cult so disturbing.

    From Psychology Today:
    Quote
    There is a great deal of interest in “cults” which can take many forms: They may be religious or racial, political or mystical, self-help or pseudo-psychological, but they all have half a dozen recognizable characteristics:

    • Powerful and exclusive dedication/devotion to an explicit person or creed.
    • They use of “thought-reform” programmes to integrate, socialize, persuade and therefore control members.
    • A well thought through recruitment, selection and socialization process.
    • Attempts to maintain psychological and physical dependency among cult members.
    • Cults insist on reprogramming the way people see the world.
    • Consistent exploitation of group members specifically to advance the leaders goals.
    • Cults nearly always go in for milieu control signals: a different,unfamiliar setting with different rules, terms, behaviour patterns.
    • Ultimately using psychological and physical harm to cult members, their friends and relatives and possibly the community as a whole.
    Most cults start their induction by trying to stop both individualistic and critical thinking like the army their job is the first to break you than remake you as one of them. This involves the introduction of a “sacred creed” that members may have to live by. Through open confession and subordination of the individual to the doctrine the cult ensures control and “purity”. Cults deliberately induce powerful emotions like fear, guilt but also pride. They tend to develop their own language, dress and signals which shows their specialness.


    Quote
    First, they demand that they sever all ties with people (family, friends) and organisations (schools, churches). This naturally makes them more dependent on the cult itself and helps create the person's new identity. They start again, wipe the slate clean. This rule is also found in extreme in Christian Monastic orders.

    Second, the members are required to show immediate and unquestioning obedience to rules and regulations which maybe arbitrary, petty or pointless. The idea is to ensure allegiance and obedience. This strategy is used to "break-in" all army recruits. It is the very staff of boot camps.

    Third, group members often have to do long hours of tedious work. It maybe drilling, begging for money, cooking, followed by compulsory reading, chanting or mediating. Recruits usually become physically, emotionally and mentally exhausted. Sleep deprivation is a good start. It's all part of the induction process.

    Fourth, all groups need money to exist. Some are very much into money both as an end and as a means. This may, therefore, quickly involve recruits getting involved in illegal, or semi-legal activities. Groups that are state supported or those with a long history of operation may, however, be different. Members need to understand how, when and why money is required and to set about getting it quickly.

    Fifth, groups make exit costs very high. Leaving is associated with failure, persecution and isolation. It is more than just a waste of time and effort. They make you feel as if nothing will ever be the same as you will be an outcast. It is made to sound a very unattractive, indeed impossible, option.


    Quote
    Extreme groups offer simple, clear messages in an increasingly complex world. Old certainties are crumbling; ethics even science is portrayed as having only relative truths. The world is corrupt, evil, unfair and very complex. So a group or leader who offers a "sensible, sane" explanation for the complex world, a secure group and personal salvation is very attractive. They come in many forms: politicians of the extreme left or right; religious leaders; romantic revolutionaries; persuasive writers; power-hungry individuals, brilliant orators; movie-star saviours...No one sees themselves as a cult-member. Cult is pejorative. Indeed even members of fairly extreme groups like Trappist monks or Amish farmers would never think of themselves as cult members. But they owe their survival to many of the principles outlined above.


    So now that we've got those essential characteristics of a cult and cult member detailed, let me explain why I believe that Social Justice is a cult and that certain members of this forum are engaged in cultist behavior.

    Powerful and exclusive dedication/devotion to an explicit person or creed.
    The creed of Social Justice boils down to: There exists an evil social force, called the "Patriarchy", which exerts pressure over all areas of everyone's lives. The Patriarchy is designed by and for the benefit of cisgender, white, heterosexual, able-bodied men and is generally perceived as being "right wing". To destroy the patriarchy, we must remove the people matching that description from positions of power, replacing them with people from the Progressive Stack (which is in essence the inverse of those characteristics: non-white, LGBT, disabled, etc.). The more characteristics of "oppression" you have, the more "power" you should have. The more characteristics of "Patriarchy" you have, the less power you should have.

    The use of “thought-reform” programmes to integrate, socialize, persuade and therefore control members.
    The method here boils down to calling anyone who disagrees names (racist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, Nazi, etc.) and using those labels to dismiss anything that the person who now bears the labels says instead of engaging with their arguments or criticisms.

    A thorough recruitment, selection and socialization process.
    The selection process is essentially the progressive stack. The recruitment process is an attempt to convince the victims of the cult that they are oppressed by Patriarchy by pointing to faulty or incomplete statistics, emotional but ultimately politically neutral episodes, or statistically anomalous incidents as if they represent the statistical norm. The socialization process is to integrate them into the cult by encouraging them to believe unsubstatiated claims of oppression and to view any negative thing that ever happened to them (no matter what the actual cause was) as a manifestation of the Patriarchy.

    Attempts to maintain psychological and physical dependency among cult members.
    The methodology here boils down to: Without Social Justice, how will you ever defeat the oppression that is holding you down? However, there is no evidence of people being held down on anywhere near the scale that the cult claims. Most of the barriers to success that the adherents face are psychological rather than societal, and the reinforcement of these barriers by the cult ensures that the adherents can never actually rise above the psychological limitations they have placed on themselves because they will never try. The cult is responsible for the failure of its members to achieve their goals and then uses their failure to achieve their goals as evidence of Patriarchy.

    Cults insist on reprogramming the way people see the world.
    "Everyone and everything is problematic [and you have to point it all out]." --Laci Green, Anita Sarkeesian, and others. The label of problematic is used to reprogram the thoughts of the cultists by making any single thing that exists, and even many things that don't exist, indicators of Patriarchy instead of morally neutral characteristics of life.

    Consistent exploitation of group members specifically to advance the leaders goals.
    Since Social Justice doesn't include one distinct leader, it contains a web of leadership, there isn't one definitive example, but there are many examples of this behavior from the demi-leaders:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tanz1IxVpVA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8I0Wy58adM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW1dUvFDVzU

    Cults nearly always go in for milieu control signals: a different,unfamiliar setting with different rules, terms, behaviour patterns.
    By labeling the objectively benign or well-meaning actions of people who are generally sympathetic to the causes of minorities as evil, the cult puts outsiders on edge and makes them want to join or at least appease the cultists because they are good people and don't wish to be evil or oppressive. This redefinition of the benign, positive, or neutral as inherently evil and oppressive changes the rules of the social discourse to the point of being an avenue of control.

    Ultimately using psychological and physical harm to cult members, their friends and relatives and possibly the community as a whole.
    This is the part I am so concerned about. The cult is breaking apart families, turning people against those who have sworn to protect them like the police, and banishing civility and debate from the political discourse. I already went into more detail on this subject in my other threads so I'm not going to repeat myself here, I'm just going to link to those threads.
    https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30947
    https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30685

    [The cult] demand that [members] sever all ties with people (family, friends) and organisations (schools, churches).
    The punishment for associating with "problematic" people (which is anyone who doesn't conform to the cult) is being labeled problematic. This serves to encourage isolation. The isolation is then further compounded by an unreasonable paranoia that "problematic" people are going to harm you in some way because they hate you for your identity, and the further up the progressive stack you are, the more you risk harm. This is, again, supported by faulty or inaccurate statistics or the representation of statistical anomalies as the statistical norm.

    This naturally makes them more dependent on the cult itself and helps create the person's new identity. They start again, wipe the slate clean.
    The cult member's identity is redefined by their progressive stack position instead of by who they are as a human being. Your skin color, gender, or LGBT status are not who you are. They're certainly a part of your identity but they aren't your identity. Your identity is what you believe, what you think, and most importantly, what you do. You're hurting yourself if you insist on reducing yourself to nothing more than the conditions of your birth. You had no choice in those characteristics. It's just as harmful as defining your entire identity based on your zodiac sign. Your choices should be what defines you, not the ultimately arbitrary conditions of your birth. You had no choice in who your parents had sex with, you had no choice in what sperm cell fertilized the egg to create your gender, you had no choice in determining your sexuality, the country of your birth, or the relative symmetry of your facial features. So don't let those things define who you are.

    The members are required to show immediate and unquestioning obedience to rules and regulations which may be arbitrary, petty or pointless. The idea is to ensure allegiance and obedience.
    Manspreading, manspaining, manterrupting, whitesplaining...the list goes on and on.

    Group members often have to do long hours of tedious work. It maybe drilling, begging for money, cooking, followed by compulsory reading, chanting or mediating.
    Usually it's protesting or internet activism. Lots of chanting mantras, tho:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvRlJ_MzoII

    Recruits usually become physically, emotionally and mentally exhausted.
    Take it from me, having your adrenaline system active over an extended period of time does all three, and that's exactly what's happening when you spend your entire life in fear of assault or fighting, when you fear danger around every corner or feel you must be constantly ready to fight the danger others face around that corner.

    Members need to understand how, when and why money is required and to set about getting it quickly.
    Usually this is accomplished through fundraisers and crowd-funding sites.

    [Cults] make exit costs very high. Leaving is associated with failure, persecution and isolation. It is more than just a waste of time and effort. They make you feel as if nothing will ever be the same as you will be an outcast. It is made to sound a very unattractive, indeed impossible, option.
    You'll get a lovely little label of your own, like race traitor, sexist, and I'm we will provided with some other examples as a rebuttal to this post. Failing that (or in addition to that), you'll be ostracized by the cult, as Laci Green has recently discovered. Fortunately, there is a world outside the cult filled with people who are much nicer than the cult believes them to be.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #1 - July 19, 2017, 02:21 AM

    I'm becoming increasingly disturbed by the adherence of certain admins and members of this forum to a dangerous and harmful cult, the cult of Social Justice. ..

    Hello USA girl...  Hello musa girl.  ..  well i casually read through  your cult " cult of Social Justice"
    Quote
    group members often have to do long hours of tedious work. It maybe drilling, begging for money, cooking, followed by compulsory reading, chanting or mediating. Recruits usually become physically, emotionally and mentally exhausted.


    now it is time expose the group members from cemb and their leader.,

      rascals having good time  with  begging for money, cooking, followed by compulsory reading, chanting or mediating.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #2 - July 19, 2017, 02:40 AM

    I dont like the regressive left
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #3 - July 19, 2017, 02:44 AM

    https://youtu.be/avu5NT1ZYT8

    https://youtu.be/ecJUqhm2g08

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #4 - July 19, 2017, 07:40 AM

    Hmmm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic6IVk9Omtc

     unaccountable and racist police violence  by CELISA CALACAL,

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #5 - July 19, 2017, 07:52 AM

    I dont like the regressive left


    It's better to treat them with kid gloves I.e. not consider them as adults.

    Triggering them can be very enjoyable.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #6 - July 19, 2017, 11:45 AM

    Triggering them can get me fired.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #7 - July 19, 2017, 01:59 PM

    I'm gonna guess that you work at a uni/college.

    They are breeding grounds for this kind of vitriol.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #8 - July 19, 2017, 04:18 PM

    You're overreaching, gal_from_usa. Although that isn't really new I guess.

    The very fact that some of our most active members are speaking out against the regressive left in this thread, and none of tptb really seem to care indicates that this forum doesn't really have that sort of cult operation, or adherence to anything of the sort.

    It's highly cliquish, don't get me wrong. But it evolves over time, and the kind of culty behavior that you're talking of doesn't really seem to be apparent to me. But maybe I'm just in too deep...  Tongue Anyway, examples would really go a long way towards supporting your point, as right now the whole thread seems like a giant non sequitur.

    IMO, this is a pretty good place to debate about interesting topics, and the mods don't really stifle very much. But on the whole those things are reasonable, keeping in mind why this forum exists (its for ex-muslims).

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #9 - July 19, 2017, 05:04 PM


    on that heading  of that news from salon.com  another news from AMRIKA Police  comes on top of it..

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/17/15985442/minneapolis-police-shooting-justine-damond-video

    Minneapolis police shot an unarmed woman in her pajamas. It took days to give an explanation

    Quote
    Quote
    On Saturday night, a police officer in Minneapolis shot a 40-year-old woman in the alley behind her house. It took until Tuesday night for officials to explain what happened.

    According to the Minnesota Department of Public Safety, Justine Damond, who worked as a yoga and meditation instructor, called 911 to report a possible assault outside her home. Officer Matthew Harrity, who was driving the squad car, indicated that he was startled by a loud noise as he approached Damond’s home. Damond then immediately approached the car from the driver’s side. Officer Mohamed Noor, who was sitting in the passenger’s seat, fired his weapon, hitting and killing Damond.

    The officers then reportedly tried to offer emergency medical care to Damond, but they were unable to revive her. She was pronounced dead at the scene.

    The officers’ body cameras weren’t on during the shooting, and the police car’s camera apparently didn’t capture the incident.

    The shooting quickly received international attention, because Damond is from Australia and was set to be married soon. Damond’s family in Australia is now demanding a federal investigation into the shooting.


    The shooting is under investigation by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA). Investigators reportedly interviewed Harrity on Tuesday, but Noor has reportedly declined to be interviewed.

    Both officers are on paid administrative leave, as is standard after a shooting.

    In a statement on Monday, Minneapolis Police Chief Janeé Harteau said she’s “asked for the investigation to be expedited to provide transparency and to answer as many questions as quickly as we can.”

    The shooting raises several questions: Why weren’t the officers’ body cameras on? And especially due to the international attention, why is it that American police seem to resort to force more often than law enforcement officers in other developed countries around the world?

    Police didn’t have their body cameras on when they shot Damond
    Both officers had body cameras, but they weren’t turned on when one cop opened fire.

    This gets to one of the major ongoing problems with the devices as more and more police departments adopt them: While cameras are meant to hold police accountable, it’s ultimately the police who control when the cameras turn on. That makes it possible for cops, on purpose or not, to effectively cover up an act of bad policing.

    According to the American Civil Liberties Union, the officers’ failure to turn on their cameras violates Minneapolis police policy, which has been in place for body cameras since at least 2016.

    In particular, policy 4-223 says that officers should manually activate their cameras “prior to any use of force. If a [body-worn camera] is not activated prior to a use of force, it shall be activated as soon as it is safe to do so.” It also says that officers should turn on their cameras during “any contact involving criminal activity,” “any contact that is, or becomes adversarial,” and “any citizen contact.” All of these rules indicate that the cameras should have been rolling before police shot Damond.

    But it’s one thing to have these rules on their books and another to get officers to actually follow them. The ACLU of Minnesota, for its part, on Monday called for Minneapolis police to add potential penalties for failing to follow the policy “to ensure better compliance and accountability.”

    American police use force more often than police in other developed countries
    Police officers in the US shoot and kill nearly 1,000 people a year, according to the Washington Post’s database — far more than other developed countries like the UK, Australia, Japan, and Germany, where police officers might go an entire year without killing more than a dozen people or even anyone at all.

    For example, an analysis by the Guardian found that “US police kill more in days than other countries do in years.” Between 1992 and 2011, Australian police shot and killed 94 people. In 2015, US police shot and killed 97 people just in March. These differences are not explained by population, since the US is about 14 times as populous as Australia but, based on the Guardian’s count, has hundreds of times the fatal police shootings.

    One explanation for this disparity is that violent crime is much more common in the US, putting police in more situations in which the use of force is necessary. As data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development shows, the US homicide rate throughout the 2000s was nearly four times the rate of Canada, more than four times that of the UK, nearly six times that of Australia, and more than 10 times that of Germany.

    But why does the US have a much higher violent crime rate than other countries? One explanation: Americans are much more likely to own guns than their peers around the world. This means that conflicts — not just between police and civilians but between civilians — are more likely to escalate into deadly, violent encounters.

    The research bears this out: More guns lead to more gun violence. Reviews of the evidence, compiled by the Harvard School of Public Health’s Injury Control Research Center, have consistently found that when controlling for variables such as socioeconomic factors and other crime, places with more guns have more gun deaths. One review of 130 studies in 10 countries, published in Epidemiologic Reviews, found that new legal restrictions on owning and purchasing guns tended to be followed by a drop in gun violence — a strong indicator that restricting access to guns can save lives.

    For police in particular, one study found that every 10 percent increase in firearm ownership correlated with 10 additional officers killed at the state level over a 15-year period.

    This is a result of cultural and policy decisions made by the US that have made firearms far more available in America than most of the world. For American police officers, this means they not only will encounter more guns, but they expect to encounter more guns, making them more likely to anticipate and perceive a threat and use deadly force as a result.

    Other factors, such as differences in police training as well as socioeconomic and cultural variables, play a role in the higher rates of police violence as well. There are also sharp racial disparities in police use of force, with black Americans much more likely to be shot and killed by police than their white counterparts.

    Whatever the cause, America simply has more police violence than comparable countries.

    Police only have to reasonably perceive a threat to justify shooting
    In response to the Damond shooting, many activists are already demanding that the police officer who shot her be held accountable and possibly face trial. But police in America are generally given wide latitude to use force.

    Hmm  they kill woman in pyjamas ...err it only takes one shot ..So  Amrikhanoos   ..be good and be careful with AMRIKA POLICE

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #10 - July 19, 2017, 06:46 PM

    This is what a left wing cult looks like: http://brockley.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/brixton-maoist-sex-cult-slave-shocker.html

    I don't see much resemblance to CEMB.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #11 - July 19, 2017, 08:58 PM

    I'm gonna guess that you work at a uni/college.

    They are breeding grounds for this kind of vitriol.


    Yup.

    This is one of the reasons I dislike Cato and butted heads with Girl recently. They remind of those students.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #12 - July 19, 2017, 09:40 PM

    Quote
    The creed of Social Justice boils down to: There exists an evil social force, called the "Patriarchy", which exerts pressure over all areas of everyone's lives. The Patriarchy is designed by and for the benefit of cisgender, white, heterosexual, able-bodied men and is generally perceived as being "right wing". To destroy the patriarchy, we must remove the people matching that description from positions of power, replacing them with people from the Progressive Stack (which is in essence the inverse of those characteristics: non-white, LGBT, disabled, etc.). The more characteristics of "oppression" you have, the more "power" you should have. The more characteristics of "Patriarchy" you have, the less power you should have.


    Ah yes, a radical identification with the status quo. Excellent.

    Yes, pity the poor cisgender, white, heterosexual, able-bodied, right-wing capitalist man, who dominates our institutions and our societies (as you yourself must admit, or none of what you go on to say makes much sense). The spectacle of people able to deny their privileges despite being their chief beneficiaries is quite something to look at; in this view of the world, challenges to one's dominance - or to one's attempts to expand it - are actually keenly felt oppressions (because such an argument is nothing if it does not co-opt the language of its wielder's enemies). All of a sudden, we are expected to ignore the economic and political dominance of the now allegedly oppressed; their allegedly tyrannical challengers are now equally powerful all of a sudden, their actions of equal consequence in the world. For some reason, however, it must be the latter who must be the responsible ones.

    And what could be more responsible than engaging in civility and the proper forms of debate? Other than the fact our world doesn't work according to the mores of debate club nerds, who can say. While the fantasy of such a hyper-rational world - in which the idea and the argument, and not how and in whose interests power is wielded in are paramount - is a compelling one, there is little evidence that the required transvaluation has occurred. And yet, we are somehow to believe that the notion of ideas in the service of power determining the nature of the discourse around us - never mind the obvious 'cui bono?' - is just conspiratorial thinking. Debate nerd world depends on an inversion of actual power relations for its credibility, and will lead one to one of several very similar refusals to see the world as it is as a consequence; watching it happen again and again gets a bit boring, tbh, which is why I generally ignore it.

    As for the rest of your description, any resemblances to CEMB are somewhat unlikely at best. The only people doing volunteer labour here are the mods, for one thing, and if we expected obedience to a party line, you would be long gone. Instead, here you are, posting repeatedly about your particular.. fixations, with nobody going to any lengths to stop you from doing so (or from leaving this cult-led den, for that matter).
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #13 - July 19, 2017, 10:21 PM

    hmm good picture..good picture.. great exposure to queens and kings..

    So who is the queen of this folder??  and where is her picture??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #14 - July 20, 2017, 12:40 AM

    Regarding the case in Minneapolis, we STILL don't have any real details, because the officer who fired (Noor) refuses to explain it. The police department says they can't force him to make a statement. So he won't. It doesn't matter what his partner thinks or etc, because the one who fired the gun is the only one who understands why. AND HE WON'T TALK. Maddening.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #15 - July 20, 2017, 12:52 AM

    I participated in a violent leftist social justice movement when I was younger and it still doesn't meet your cult criteria. You might have to rethink this.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #16 - July 20, 2017, 10:57 AM

    You're overreaching, gal_from_usa. Although that isn't really new I guess.

    The point is to excise the tumor before it spreads. I would rather deal with this idiocy now than when it reaches its logical conclusion, which is some kind of race war.

    Anyway, examples would really go a long way towards supporting your point, as right now the whole thread seems like a giant non sequitur.


    Don't worry, they'll show up, just wait.

    Yes, pity the poor cisgender, white, heterosexual, able-bodied, right-wing capitalist man, who dominates our institutions and our societies (as you yourself must admit, or none of what you go on to say makes much sense).

    ^there it is, asbie. Toor, the issue isn't what group you want to oppress. The issue is that oppressing a group on the basis of characteristics they were born with is wrong. It's the principle of the thing. Also, I'm explaining what it is that you believe and drawing parallels between your beliefs/actions and the behavior/beliefs of cults in the original post, not why the premise is true or untrue. I'm entertaining an idea without accepting it.

    All of a sudden, we are expected to ignore the economic and political dominance of the now allegedly oppressed; their allegedly tyrannical challengers are now equally powerful all of a sudden, their actions of equal consequence in the world. For some reason, however, it must be the latter who must be the responsible ones.

    Only you can build happiness for yourself. No one else can impose happiness or fulfillment on you. You need to work at it yourself and build it for yourself. Also, name a person, institution, or law that is actively, deliberately, and maliciously holding you as an individual down. And if you can't name any such person, institution, or law, what makes you believe that it's happening?

    While the fantasy of such a hyper-rational world - in which the idea and the argument, and not how and in whose interests power is wielded in are paramount - is a compelling one, there is little evidence that the required transvaluation has occurred.

    Due largely to you and people like you who are refusing to even attempt to create such a world, preferring instead to resort to name-calling, like you did in the shoutbox:
    toor
     July 17, 2017, 11:26 AM
    sargon kakad

    And yet, we are somehow to believe that the notion of ideas in the service of power determining the nature of the discourse around us - never mind the obvious 'cui bono?' - is just conspiratorial thinking.

    Name a person, institution, or law that is actively, deliberately, and maliciously holding you as an individual down.

    As for the rest of your description, any resemblances to CEMB are somewhat unlikely at best. The only people doing volunteer labour here are the mods, for one thing, and if we expected obedience to a party line, you would be long gone. Instead, here you are, posting repeatedly about your particular.. fixations, with nobody going to any lengths to stop you from doing so (or from leaving this cult-led den, for that matter).


    #NotAll....but enough to be concerning. I'm not fixated, this is escapism to me. What I personally am fixated on at the moment is how to get past the death of the psychological manifestation of the person who went through my childhood trauma, who is personified in my psyche as a small 6 year old version of me. "She" completed the only task for which she wanted to live, to report my parents to the authorities, and now "she" is dead. "She" is buried under her favorite imaginary tree with this weird rock she really liked marking the grave, and all I, the part of me that is left, can do is sit there and meditate. On the one hand, I'm glad she finally has peace; on the other, I feel like someone very close to me has died and I have been left with nothing but memories and her personal possessions, just like what happens after anyone dies. This thread? Pure escapism and working on my "nerdy debate skills" (aka the process of refining and questioning my ideas). Dealing with the stuff inside my head sucks worse than anything anyone on the internet can say to me.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #17 - July 20, 2017, 11:45 AM

    Quote
    ^there it is, asbie. Toor, the issue isn't what group you want to oppress. The issue is that oppressing a group on the basis of characteristics they were born with is wrong. It's the principle of the thing. Also, I'm explaining what it is that you believe and drawing parallels between your beliefs/actions and the behavior/beliefs of cults in the original post, not why the premise is true or untrue. I'm entertaining an idea without accepting it.


    There it is indeed. One is born cisgender, white, heterosexual, able-bodied, right-wing capitalist and male - into a set of dynamics in society that favour these accidents of birth greatly by default - and to try and redress such systematic inequalities is *exactly* oppression. Like I said, such an argument is nothing if it does not co-opt the language of its wielder's enemies; and here you are, making it for all to see, with a side order of 'if I can't see it, it's not there' just to make sure we all get it.

    Quote
    Due largely to you and people like you who are refusing to even attempt to create such a world, preferring instead to resort to name-calling, like you did in the shoutbox:
    toor
     July 17, 2017, 11:26 AM
    sargon kakad

    There is precisely nothing wrong with name-calling of such a transparent kind, but since you didn't ask, sargon kakad is my own sequel to Atlas Shrugged. It begins with our hero, a man convinced that the hour-long youtube video is the perfect vehicle for elaborating the kind of common sense more suited to bumper stickers in the smuggest ways possible. So convinced is he of the superiority of this format that he wakes up one morning only able to utter the phrases 'nice ad hominem' and 'uhh I wouldn't even rape you' before he is assaulted by a man in a frog suit. In his outrage, he dedicates the rest of his life to twitch streaming, bottomless, sat atop a porcelain throne.

    Quote
    #NotAll....but enough to be concerning. I'm not fixated, this is escapism to me. What I personally am fixated on at the moment is how to get past the death of the psychological manifestation of the person who went through my childhood trauma, who is personified in my psyche as a small 6 year old version of me. "She" completed the only task for which she wanted to live, to report my parents to the authorities, and now "she" is dead. "She" is buried under her favorite imaginary tree with this weird rock she really liked marking the grave, and all I, the part of me that is left, can do is sit there and meditate. On the one hand, I'm glad she finally has peace; on the other, I feel like someone very close to me has died and I have been left with nothing but memories and her personal possessions, just like what happens after anyone dies. This thread? Pure escapism and working on my "nerdy debate skills" (aka the process of refining and questioning my ideas). Dealing with the stuff inside my head sucks worse than anything anyone on the internet can say to me.

    It should surprise nobody here that it's all about your argument, until it's all about you. Radical notion, I know, but maybe your arguments just aren't that good.

    By the way, if you really want to identify with debate nerd world, that's your affair, but my point still stands. I've bolded the relevant part for you:

    Quote
    Debate nerd world depends on an inversion of actual power relations for its credibility, and will lead one to one of several very similar refusals to see the world as it is as a consequence; watching it happen again and again gets a bit boring, tbh, which is why I generally ignore it.

  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #18 - July 20, 2017, 01:58 PM

    Toor argues that white heterosexuals etc etc are hardwired to succeed in the economic and political system constructed to benefit them exclusively to the exclusion and disadvantage of non white heterosexuals etc etc.

    I am going up to my flat row house roof to scream out loud:  IDEAS DO NOT BELONG TO ANY PARTICULAR RACE!!!   They are free to access, think about, apply or rejects as any individual of any race may decide for themselves.   There are free education and public libraries to assist.   The capitalist democratic system is by its very nature competitive.   The value of competition is that the best ideas, products and services tend to emerge when people perceive a reward by creating them.   Those who create inferior products, services etc (or nothing at all) are not going to be equally rewarded.   But the evidence is that the majority of people of all races living within capitalist societies enjoy a standard of living superior to anything delivered by socialistic societies.

    And if white people are only hardwired to operate under capitalist rules, how come:  white people invented communism and socialism;  yellow and brown and black people are doing extraordinarily well by putting these ideas into practice for themselves?

    I just returned from a trip upstate NY where GE was the largest employer in the area.  It has been shrinking in terms of # of employees in that area for decades.  I met an ex GE employee who started his own E-Bay business selling parts for John Deer models (John Deer makes tractors, lawnmowers etc).   He grosses half a million dollars a year.   

    The Scandinavian socialist societies offer a softer, gentler form of regulated capitalism combined with generous welfare provisions.  Norway should be left out of the discussion because of its oil revenues.   But Sweden and Denmark have to make their way in the rough and tumble of international capitalism while taking care of the weakest among them.   Oh ... and they're white people!   Silly of me not to notice.

    So Toor - what is your ideal society.  How would it be organized?   Economic benefits doled out rationally by race according to numbers in society.  Do elaborate please.   Dying to hear.




  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #19 - July 20, 2017, 03:02 PM

    Toor argues that white heterosexuals etc etc are hardwired to succeed in the economic and political system constructed to benefit them exclusively to the exclusion and disadvantage of non white heterosexuals etc etc.


    Unifier, I have truly missed your skill at close reading. Enabled by networks of class, yes (membership of which encompasses race, gender, sexual orientation, economic status, etc.). Hardwired? If you see whiteness as a matter of mere apparent caucasian-ness, absent class membership, this is an absurd claim to make on my behalf, but - not for the first time - I'm left wondering if this is your default mode.

    I am going up to my flat row house roof to scream out loud:  IDEAS DO NOT BELONG TO ANY PARTICULAR RACE!!!   


    Er.. thank you, but please spare your poor neighbours, if only because I didn't say that even once. I, for one, would hate for you to become an unwitting victim of the NYPD.

    The capitalist democratic system is by its very nature competitive.   The value of competition is that the best ideas, products and services tend to emerge when people perceive a reward by creating them.   Those who create inferior products, services etc (or nothing at all) are not going to be equally rewarded.


    This is a wonderful myth, but a myth nonetheless; partly because we are not governed by a world where the idea is supreme, and partly because the mechanisms of discourse generation are strangely oligopolistic. But don't just take it from me:

    Quote
    The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch. For instance, in an age and in a country where royal power, aristocracy, and bourgeoisie are contending for mastery and where, therefore, mastery is shared, the doctrine of the separation of powers proves to be the dominant idea and is expressed as an “eternal law.”

    The division of labour, which we already saw above as one of the chief forces of history up till now, manifests itself also in the ruling class as the division of mental and material labour, so that inside this class one part appears as the thinkers of the class (its active, conceptive ideologists, who make the perfecting of the illusion of the class about itself their chief source of livelihood), while the others’ attitude to these ideas and illusions is more passive and receptive, because they are in reality the active members of this class and have less time to make up illusions and ideas about themselves. Within this class this cleavage can even develop into a certain opposition and hostility between the two parts, which, however, in the case of a practical collision, in which the class itself is endangered, automatically comes to nothing, in which case there also vanishes the semblance that the ruling ideas were not the ideas of the ruling class and had a power distinct from the power of this class. (..)

    If now in considering the course of history we detach the ideas of the ruling class from the ruling class itself and attribute to them an independent existence, if we confine ourselves to saying that these or those ideas were dominant at a given time, without bothering ourselves about the conditions of production and the producers of these ideas, if we thus ignore the individuals and world conditions which are the source of the ideas, we can say, for instance, that during the time that the aristocracy was dominant, the concepts honour, loyalty, etc. were dominant, during the dominance of the bourgeoisie the concepts freedom, equality, etc. The ruling class itself on the whole imagines this to be so. This conception of history, which is common to all historians, particularly since the eighteenth century, will necessarily come up against the phenomenon that increasingly abstract ideas hold sway, i.e. ideas which increasingly take on the form of universality. For each new class which puts itself in the place of one ruling before it, is compelled, merely in order to carry through its aim, to represent its interest as the common interest of all the members of society, that is, expressed in ideal form: it has to give its ideas the form of universality, and represent them as the only rational, universally valid ones.


    And if white people are only hardwired to operate under capitalist rules, how come:  white people invented communism and socialism;  yellow and brown and black people are doing extraordinarily well by putting these ideas into practice for themselves?

    The Scandinavian socialist societies offer a softer, gentler form of regulated capitalism combined with generous welfare provisions.  Norway should be left out of the discussion because of its oil revenues.   But Sweden and Denmark have to make their way in the rough and tumble of international capitalism while taking care of the weakest among them.   Oh ... and they're white people!   Silly of me not to notice.


    I'm going to assume that this is a misunderstanding that I've addressed above and move on.

    So Toor - what is your ideal society.  How would it be organized? 


    One in which you and Tommy Robinson share a wardrobe would be a good start.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #20 - July 20, 2017, 04:30 PM

    Ah yes, a radical identification with the status quo. Excellent.

    Yes, pity the poor cisgender, white, heterosexual, able-bodied, right-wing capitalist man, who dominates our institutions and our societies (as you yourself must admit, or none of what you go on to say makes much sense). The spectacle of people able to deny their privileges despite being their chief beneficiaries is quite something to look at; in this view of the world, challenges to one's dominance - or to one's attempts to expand it - are actually keenly felt oppressions (because such an argument is nothing if it does not co-opt the language of its wielder's enemies). All of a sudden, we are expected to ignore the economic and political dominance of the now allegedly oppressed; their allegedly tyrannical challengers are now equally powerful all of a sudden, their actions of equal consequence in the world. For some reason, however, it must be the latter who must be the responsible ones.

    And what could be more responsible than engaging in civility and the proper forms of debate? Other than the fact our world doesn't work according to the mores of debate club nerds, who can say. While the fantasy of such a hyper-rational world - in which the idea and the argument, and not how and in whose interests power is wielded in are paramount - is a compelling one, there is little evidence that the required transvaluation has occurred. And yet, we are somehow to believe that the notion of ideas in the service of power determining the nature of the discourse around us - never mind the obvious 'cui bono?' - is just conspiratorial thinking. Debate nerd world depends on an inversion of actual power relations for its credibility, and will lead one to one of several very similar refusals to see the world as it is as a consequence; watching it happen again and again gets a bit boring, tbh, which is why I generally ignore it.

    As for the rest of your description, any resemblances to CEMB are somewhat unlikely at best. The only people doing volunteer labour here are the mods, for one thing, and if we expected obedience to a party line, you would be long gone. Instead, here you are, posting repeatedly about your particular.. fixations, with nobody going to any lengths to stop you from doing so (or from leaving this cult-led den, for that matter).


    Are you ready for our weekly BDSM ritual, toor-sama?  Wink

     Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #21 - July 20, 2017, 04:39 PM

    The point is to excise the tumor before it spreads. I would rather deal with this idiocy now than when it reaches its logical conclusion, which is some kind of race war.


    Are you an American?

    What the hell are you talking about? The violence that has been reported with regard to the salient issues that you like to go on about is a drop in the bucket with regards to the overall levels of violence in the US. The idea that it represents the spiraling precursor into some sort of civil war is preposterous. In reality our country just never has been a pretty place.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #22 - July 20, 2017, 10:22 PM

    I found this to be pertinent in light of my own experience and the topic of this thread:
    http://www.salon.com/2017/07/20/antifa-is-not-a-group-of-people-it-has-a-long-legacy-in-this-country-of-people-resisting-white-supremacy-from-slave-rebellions-all-the-way-to-the-present/

    Modern democracies are organized around a set of principles and ideas known as “normal politics.” In the United States, this takes the form of widely shared norms that view political violence as unacceptable, a belief that government should be transparent, a respect for existing political institutions, elected officials should be held accountable by the public, the rights of citizens are to be respected, and that consensus and compromise should be the basis of good political decision-making.

    Of course, in practice such high minded values and beliefs are often discarded. For example, the United States has a long history of political violence. And to resolve fundamental questions about democracy, equality, and opportunity for all citizens required centuries of struggle — and American democracy is still very much a work in progress.

    The election of Donald Trump represents a fundamental challenge to America’s standing norms about democracy and freedom. He is a plutocratic fascist who does not respect democracy. Trump has also encouraged violence against his political enemies. Trump also rejects the idea of a free press. In all, Donald Trump is a symptom of a much bigger problem. The public is experiencing a crisis of faith in America’s existing social and political institutions. The Republican Party and movement conservatism are reactionary and revanchist. They also have no respect for consensus or compromise as they work to advance a radically destructive and backwards looking ideology that exists outside of empirical reality. For modern American conservatives, politics and ideology are religion. As such, their beliefs cannot be challenged or undermined by appeals to reason or logic: faith is by definition a belief in that which cannot be proven by empirical means. The rise of Trump and the Republican Party’s full-on embrace of extreme right-wing politics has also encouraged a resurgence of fascism and overt white supremacy under the banner of the so-called “alt-right.” Donald Trump and the forces he represents have also inspired resistance. In total, this political moment represents a major challenge for “normal politics” in the United States.
    How should the American people respond to this crisis? Do old norms about non-violence still hold true when confronted by fascists, white supremacists, and other members of the far right-wing? What of free speech? How do the intersections of class and race create opportunities — and challenges — for creating alliances and resistance in the Age of Donald Trump? Is “working class” solidarity even possible in America?

    In an effort to answer these questions, I recently spoke with “Andy” and “Mike” from the antifascist and labor rights group the Chicago General Defense Committee, Local 3. The General Defense Committee is associated with the Industrial Workers of the World and describes its mission as “the aims of this organization shall be to provide defense and relief to members of the working class who are being persecuted for their activity in the class struggle.”

    What do you think the average American does not correctly understand about antifa and those others who are actively resisting the so-called “alt-right” and other fascist groups in this moment?

    Andy: I think people get confused about the term “antifa.” It is an organizing strategy. Antifa is not a group of people. It has a long legacy in this country of people resisting white supremacy from slave rebellions all the way to the present. I think there is confusion around tactics such as “black bloc” or “masking up”. And maybe there is a misconception that if someone is at a protest and they have a mask over their face, it means that they’re trying to destroy property or harm someone through violence. Really, it’s about protecting ourselves from the alt-right and general repression from the state as much as we can. Every situation does not call for the same response and we’re seeing anti-fascists use a variety of tactics for community self-defense. I think the rise of the General Defense Committee (GDC) is a good example.

    There is also a deep reluctance on the part of the mainstream American corporate news media to tell the truth about all of the violence and threats from the right-wing in this country. People have already been hurt and killed both during Trump’s presidential campaign and through the first few months of his time in office.

    Mike: We cannot necessarily rely on the state or politicians or the police to stop the rise of right-wing violence and . . .

    Because there’s a huge overlap where there are police who are members of these right-wing organizations. And one cannot forget that historically, police also do the work of the state and the plutocrats.

    Mike: Exactly. I think for us, we realize that building solidarity is the only way to really develop the ability to resist right-wing violence more generally. We really can’t look to the state to protect us. We have to do that ourselves and that takes time and energy.

    Most people choose to be bystanders. Why do you think some choose to become actively involved in the struggle against fascism in America while others decide to stay home?

    Andy: I think the question of, “why do some people stay home?” is something that we’re constantly confronted with and trying to address in our work, because there are not enough of us. Why did I get involved? It’s clear that working class people across this country are under attack. For me it wasn’t a decision of whether to defend myself, or defend my community, or defend people I love that have a lot less privilege than I do. It was more about what does that look like strategically? Who are the people that I want to do this work with? Joining the GDC was the most clear path, because it’s not just a single-issue group. It’s really looking at all of the things that are keeping the working class down.

    Mike: For me personally, I also think it’s about, “what kind of a world do you want to live in?” I feel like values of self-determination and just mutual aid, kindness, and solidarity are values that I want to put into practice. I want to do that by working with other people. I think the GDC is a vehicle for that and it is a way to have authentic solidarity with other working class people.

    For you, what does it mean to be “working class?” Do you think that the idea of the “working class” was misrepresented by the American news media and others during the last presidential election?

    Andy: For me, being “working class” means that you have to sell your labor. It means that being a worker is about solidarity. It’s about doing what you need to do to feed your family. It’s not about oppressing someone else for your own gain. That’s what it means to me. I think in today’s day and age the true meaning of “working class” does get lost. “Working class?” “Middle class?” How are we talking about these things? I think you’re right in that the alt-right, fascists, whatever you want to call them, are co-opting language around the “working class”. I think that certainly we need to be centering the struggles of black and brown folks here in this country, but we also have to recognize that rural white folks are ripe for the picking by right-wing extremists. You’ve got to be focused on at least counter-recruitment there as well. White people really have an obligation to do that work.

    --- and please click the link for the rest of the interview. 






    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #23 - July 20, 2017, 11:24 PM

    FYI the Portland murderer was a Bernie Sanders supporter. That makes him left-wing not right-wing.....

    Horrible article.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #24 - July 21, 2017, 12:10 AM

    I don't think his views would count as left, even with the Bernie Sanders support. He considers himself, and is considered, a white supremacist.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #25 - July 21, 2017, 01:37 AM

    There it is indeed. One is born cisgender, white, heterosexual, able-bodied, right-wing capitalist and male - into a set of dynamics in society that favour these accidents of birth greatly by default - and to try and redress such systematic inequalities is *exactly* oppression.


    You can't redress inequalities if you don't know the cause or especially if they don't have a cause. You can't point to a cause for the inequalities so you instead espouse a conspiracy theory about a "Patriarchy". If you can't point to the person, institution, or law keeping you down, the only logical conclusion is that no one is keeping you down but yourself. You are limiting yourself. You need to overcome your own psychological barriers to success if you want to achieve success.


    Like I said, such an argument is nothing if it does not co-opt the language of its wielder's enemies; and here you are, making it for all to see, with a side order of 'if I can't see it, it's not there' just to make sure we all get it.

    The issue isn't whether or not I, the kuffar, can point to the cause, the issue is whether or not you, the person with the beliefs, can point to the cause. You're saying "prove Allah Patriarchy doesn't exist" and I'm saying "you're the one who believes in Allah Patriarchy, you are the one who needs to provide proof." And then you're saying "Open your eyes, Allah Patriarchy surrounds us, it is in everything and controls everything." And I still don't see it, so you're saying "well, just because you can't see Allah Patriarchy doesn't mean it's not there." You haven't shown any evidence of Patriarchy. You say "there's wealth disparity, how do you explain that if not for Patriarchy?" Well, there could be any number of ways; hours worked, personal ambition, job types...and you say "All those things are caused by Patriarchy!" Well, by what mechanism? How is Patriarchy enforcing its will on the world? Who decides what the will of Patriarchy is? Who is doing the enforcing? Patriarchy is your God of the (Social) Gaps.


    It should surprise nobody here that it's all about your argument, until it's all about you. Radical notion, I know, but maybe your arguments just aren't that good.


    I wasn't making an argument, I was responding to your accusation. You maligned my motives, claiming that I was "fixated" on your beliefs, so I responded by denying your allegation with an explanation of my motives. Was getting me to do so your intent when you maligned my motives?

    By the way, if you really want to identify with debate nerd world, that's your affair, but my point still stands. I've bolded the relevant part for you: debate nerd world depends on an inversion of actual power relations for its credibility.


    No one ideological model can accurately represent every individual, their motives, their drives, and their principles. That's why so many models exist. If you want to call that an "inversion of actual power relations", that's up to you, but I believe that challenging every idea, especially the ones that have no basis in reality, will ultimately help me better understand reality. Since you can provide no evidence of the "actual power relations" that you believe in, I must conclude that they don't exist.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #26 - July 21, 2017, 02:12 AM

    Are you an American?

    What the hell are you talking about? The violence that has been reported with regard to the salient issues that you like to go on about is a drop in the bucket with regards to the overall levels of violence in the US. The idea that it represents the spiraling precursor into some sort of civil war is preposterous. In reality our country just never has been a pretty place.


    yes I'm _from_usa....It may be relatively small now, but it's the only kind of crime in the US that I see increasing instead of being on a steady decline, and that's why I find it so concerning. I don't want crime to increase, I want crime to continue to decrease, so I find people who are inciting, excusing, and causing crime to increase to stop doing that.

    The election of Donald Trump represents a fundamental challenge to America’s standing norms about democracy and freedom. He is a plutocratic fascist who does not respect democracy.

    The evidence for which is....? Do you see any evidence that he intends to halt the democratic process and declare himself President for life, name one of his children as his successor, dissolve the congress and supreme court, take full control of the military and police and use them as enforcement squads? Because if you have no evidence of anything at all similar to that, this claim is bullshit. His election was a demonstration of the democratic process. His attempts at doing unconstitutional things, such as his so-called "Muslim ban", were struck down almost immediately by the courts and he didn't go have the judges shot and replaced with judges more willing to give a favorable ruling. He hasn't shown any indication of rebelling against the democratic process.

    Trump has also encouraged violence against his political enemies.

    To an extent. Not the same extent as the far left, but to an extent. He did display happiness and support when his supporters punched his political enemies who had come to his rallies. However, I haven't seen any evidence of him doing anything similar after the election.

    How should the American people respond to this crisis? Do old norms about non-violence still hold true when confronted by fascists, white supremacists, and other members of the far right-wing? What of free speech?

    Well, step 1 is to provide evidence of the crisis. Step 2 is to present that evidence to the population at large--both from the right and left wing. I see no evidence that the population at large would like to have democracy removed from our political process, and many voters saw the Clinton as the beginning of an age of political dynasties (two Bushes, two Clintons...followed by how many more?) and voted against her to stop that.

    And before you reply with quotes from more people who just so happen to agree with you, let me explain what I mean by "proof." I don't care that 1.6 billion people are Muslims thousands of people believe Trump is a fascist. I care about the evidence that he is doing anything, or is planning on doing anything, to undermine the democratic process, to stay in office longer than the term or terms for which he is elected, that he intends to instate his replacement to ensure his line of succession....something, ANYTHING that proves that he is actually the threat to democracy you claim he is.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #27 - July 21, 2017, 03:24 AM

    Funny. I think there is an investigation into this right now, the undermining of the democratic process. Maybe you haven't noticed the investigation?

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #28 - July 21, 2017, 03:29 AM

    Funny. I think there is an investigation into this right now, the undermining of the democratic process. Maybe you haven't noticed the investigation?

    "Investigation" does not equal "conviction". False claims get investigated just like real ones. If the investigation finds no evidence of wrong-doing, will you be satisfied that your claims of wrong-doing were premature and inaccurate? Also, if Trump was actually interested in destroying democracy and had no interest in preserving the democratic process, don't you think he would put down such an investigation instead of letting it happen?

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • The Cult of Social Justice
     Reply #29 - July 21, 2017, 04:24 PM

    ............. Also, if  Trump was actually interested in destroying democracy  and had no interest in preserving the democratic process, ................................

    Helloooo  musa girl.,   you seem to be high on that cheap caffeine drink  that sells in high class stores/restaurants of US of A..

    I don't think anyone saidany thing like that  in CEMB forum that  Trump was/is  interested in destroying democracy.,  that fellow before he became president ., neither he was interested in destroying democracy  nor he was  interested in preserving the democratic process.,

    What Mr.Trump  was  interested was BEATING REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC  presidential candidates of  U. S of A. elections ,  I tell you,  if the other guy bernie sanders was a candidate ..  HE COULD HAVE BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF Mr. TRUMP.,

    or if Mrs Clinton didn't had the baggage of Mr.Clinton  or even if  she choose right candidate such as Mr.  bernie sanders  as vice presidential candidate., mr. trump  could have lost all his money he spent on that campaign., I am sure  Now  being US of A of President   he will be like  Nawaz Sharif and his inside circle   cronies of Mr. Prime Minister of Pakistan.. All of them fill up their pockets so there kids/grandkids  will be pushing  the drugs/medications  to get high and dry....

     Now   musa girl., you give the link of a post who wrote  that  Trump is  interested in destroying democracy

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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