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Theme Changer

 Topic: SubbyX - My story

 (Read 7132 times)
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  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #30 - July 05, 2017, 10:26 PM

    Three, curious to know:  which religions you have followed (you said more than one), general area of U.S. you reside in (South I understand) - but curious to know where you run into Christian religious bigotry and intolerance.

    I am a bit shocked (not just by you, but also others on CEMB) when people say there is no specific difference in terms of violence, social disruptions and other negative outcomes of Islam when compared to other major world religions.  It seems starkly clear to me that Islam is unique in the number of negative outcomes generated in today's world.   But as a white person of Christian background I am probably blissfully unaware of some of the things you perceive.

    I was born into Christianity and made it nearly to my teens when I abandoned it in favor of more pagan stuff. I converted to Islam via apologist literature and some really nice folk in my very early twenties.

    I do NOT live in the South. I am lucky to live in the Far North but we do have our share of ugly. I have lived in the South, and I don't want to go back. I was involved with SHARPS in the South and it was a mote against the tide of racist rabid Christians there. People killing people because they interpret the Bible as God granting superiority to the lighter skinned populations. Shittiest people I ever saw, and yet I thought we were winning with the laws passed against discrimination since then. But I was wrong. 
    They are kin to those around here foaming at the mouth over Shariah bullshit they read  off Breitbart and took as Gospel Truth. Not a chance in hell of Shariah, not a Muslim in sight, and they are ranting their hatred of something they can't even understand and they never check the sources. There are people who won't talk to me because I USED to be Muslim. There is no forgiveness with haters. These same folk are usually racist. I don't understand why or how, but this Shariah paranoia is their way of expressing racism in an acceptable manner. They were sleeping, all along. Just biding their time.
    I KNOW Christian haters. I don't want to know them, but they are here, and just as loud as your Islamocentric examples. I am sick and tired of arguing against these backward folk who don't understand even the ethnicity of their own prophet. Please stop feeding them. They will prop you up and let you talk a while, clap in agreement, and then discard you because they do not value you as a person, only a parrot.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #31 - July 05, 2017, 10:43 PM

    I think that his main accurate point about the cowardice and hypocrisy of British politicians and police when dealing with muslim extremism gets lost when he uses such confrontational tactics.   And that is a great shame because he has a very good point to make.

    You're right, he has a great point to make, but I like his confrontational style of debate. He is the only one to cut through the bullshit and call out Islam for what it is. I have so much respect for a man who publicly confronts rapists. He's willing to actively do something about it.

    In regards to the Quillam situation, I see no problem with openly going out to challenge someone who's called you a white supremacist. He's tired of talking, he's tired of the bullshit, he's going for it.

    Although, I will say that if he develops his knowledge a little more, he'd be respected. Clearly since his EDL days (good he left them) he's brushed up his knowledge and has actually studied Islam, I believe he knows the religion better than Muslims themselves. I don't know if you're from the UK but one reason I can identify with what he says is because he mainly refers to Pakistani-Muslims he's grown up around. A lot of the things he says about them really hits close to home, like the time he said he has one Pakistani friend who isn't a Muslim anymore, is a peaceful person and didn't have a father to shove religion down his throat, something I have a direct experience with.

    But yeah, he needs to continue to develop this knowledge. But just because he doesn't talk like Richard Dawkins or someone else from an upper-class background, it doesn't mean he's not intelligent. He talks the way he talks. He came from a lower-class family. He represents what the people are really thinking. The fact that he's grown up around Muslims in Luton gives him direct experience with these issues. He's one of my favourite speakers who criticise Islam.

    Oh, you're one of those.

    One of what?

    It's not surprising that you want to deport Muslims then. You two deserve each other.

    I think it's safe to call you a liar. I never said that.

    FYI you did suggest that other religions don't inspire violent behaviour, reread your OP in you other thread. That is why we brought up Christianity, it isn't a mere case of whataboutery.

    In the same thread where I asked WHAT MAKES ISLAM DIFFERENT? DO YOU THINK THERE'S A DOUBLE STANDARD? IS ISLAM AS BAD AS THE OTHERS? How about the countless times I've said in THIS very thread that I'm not denying the dvil in Christianity? Also, I like how you have used the word suggest, because you know I haven't said directly other religions don't inspire violence. At the same time, I don't know how you've interpreted that from everything I've said. Stop spreading lies about me.

    Why are you surprised? We are anti-Islamism and some are even anti-Islam but I rarely come across an ex-Muslim who is anti-Muslim. Why would you expect us to be?

    I'm not saying you should be, it was the idea I had in mind. We have seen Islam from the inside and out. We have been able to say we no longer follow the faith. I am not saying you should be an anti-Muslim nor did I say I expect you to be an anti-Muslim either (lie number 3). I am saying that I would have THOUGHT that from your experiences, you would have been harsher critics. That's fine if you're not, I'm not going to force anything down your throats, it was just what I had in mind.

    The majority of the people I care about the most are Muslims.

    Me too. I have a mother to think of. Brothers. Cousins. Friends. In fact, the only reason I haven't gone public just yet is because I fear for not my own safety, but the safety of these people. These Muslims.
    In my view anti-Muslim bigots are just as bad as Islamists.

    It depends. What do you mean my anti-Muslims? Anti-Muslims that attack Muslims physically, then yes, they are as bad, like the man who drove a van into the crowd of Muslims the other week in London. Tommy Robinson has done neither. Like I said in an earlier post, I have never incited violence against Muslims, so don't you dare imply I am in that bracket.

    A lot of them are closeted racists who disguise their hatred for people who look a certain way as criticism of a religion.

    You know the "criticising Islam is racist" garbage is invalid, so what you have done here is suggest that people like Tommy criticise Islam because they are racist. Never mind that Tommy has had brown men at his wedding. Never mind that he has sat down with them and had peaceful discussions, like with Mo Ansar. Yes, this is true for some, but to imply that someone is criticising a religion because of their hate for brown people is an extremely bigoted and simply stupid thing to say.

    You think guys like Tommy want to put their lives on the line and their own children's lives on the line by making it their job to criticise Islam, simply because they hate Pakistanis? Don't be stupid. How about you listen to what they have to say rather than simply screaming racist, unless you can provide me evidence of racism, from a man like Tommy Robinson.
    They disguise it very badly though. It doesn't take much winding up to make their veil drop.

    They don't disguise anything. It is your misinterpretation. Because of people like you, the word racist no longer holds any weight. It used to be a dirty word that was applied to actual racists. You know, slave owners, people that attack ethnic minorities. ACTUAL racists. Because the left throws around the word like it's nothing, using it against anyone because it makes them feel good, it means nothing. Anyone can be called a racist now. I have been called a racist, against those of the same skin colour as myself which makes no sense.
    If you're a person of colour and you view them as allies then you are a fool.

    If I as a person of colour, which I am, view Tommy Robinson, a white male, as an ally, then I'm a fool? THAT is racist.

    Also, I like how your tone towards me changed the moment you realised I support Tommy Robinson. As an ex-Muslim, something I would definitely expect from you is to allow freedom of speech and expression and to not judge someone by their beliefs as such, but through the content of the character. I criticise feminists all of the time. Do I hate feminists? No, one of the sweetest girls I know works with me is (unfortunately) a feminist. I have vigorously attacked Islam and Muslims on this forum in the short period of time I've been here, yet the people I mostly care for are ALL Muslims. Not just some, or most. ALL of them. Just because I support Tommy, I don't understand why you would change your tone towards me. Do it, I don't care. I just would have expected otherwise from a former Muslim.
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #32 - July 05, 2017, 11:16 PM

    I would be interested to read more from you on your intellectual journey to conservatism.   You can mail me directly if you don't feel like sharing that on the general board.

    I'll do that here. I'm not going to shy away from my beliefs.

    So, like most young British teens, I was very liberal at one point. Supporting third wave feminism, socialism, the Black Lives Matter group, etc. I remember taking the political compass test 3 years ago in year 12 and I was so far on the left wing.

    As I studied politics more in school, I questioned conservative beliefs. I always thought, why are these people so snobby? Why are they so far up their own arses? BUT, I've always been an open-minded person and was willing to listen to and look into why conservatives think the way they think (I'll come back to this later). As I looked into it further, I thought that the right wing make more sense and so at this point I identified with the centre right.

    I knew that the Republicans and UKIP were further towards the right, but I always thought "I wouldn't go that far down the line." This was me from late 2014 till early-mid 2016.

    During the 2016 US election primaries and caucuses, I began to study US politics a lot more. Not only in my year 13 politics class but in my personal time as well. It has become a hobby. A passion.

    But I admired Trump's political incorrectness. Trump was never the candidate I supported, I think Ted Cruz would have been a better candidate. But, he's far better than Hillary. Put all of Trump's policies aside, I supported his push for saying whatever the fuck you want because he can.

    Around this time, I began to study conservatives like Ben Shapiro, Dennis Prager, Larry Elder, Christina Hoff Summers, etc. I was moving further and further towards the right and away from leftist principles.

    I remember in 2015 I watched Alex Jones' debate with Piers Morgan on gun control. In the back of my mind, I thought Alex Jones has got some pretty good points, but I brushed it away and continued to laugh at how he was saying things, rather than listening to what he had to say.

    Then I watched Shapiro's debate with Piers on the same topic and I thought "oh my god, I seriously can't be in favour of the second amendment and against extreme gun control, can I?"

    As the days went by I thought "you know what?" I'm a solid conservative. Also a libertarian, as I think the government should stay out of our lives, but I'm in favour for conservative policies. I think if a conservative government forces right wing polices down our throats, not only does it represent a big government which is what conservatives are against, but also, this doesn't solve anything, not really. See, you can implement conservative policies into everyone's lives, but it means little if about 50% of society still has a leftist mind. But also, generally, the government should stay out of our business.

    This brings me to my point I said I'll come back to...WHY conservatives think the way they do. As a conservative, I am against a big government. I take self-responsibility seriously. I believe we should point fingers at ourselves rather than the "almighty government." (SIDE NOTE: I think it's stupid from leftists that they call for government intervention but at the same time criticise it for being so shit, how about you tell the politicians to get OUT of your life so you can no longer blame them?) I believe in addressing harsh truths. Just like I did with the gun control topic and in some sense with Islam. You need to accept the data provided towards you (I'll come back to this in a while). Furthermore, there should be a focus on if something is right (rationally speaking) rather than on it feels right (emotionally speaking). For example, leftists may think it is "racist" or just plain wrong to criticise Islam. It may not feel right, but it is definitely right. People need to think with their heads, not their hearts.

    Linking back to the second point I said I'll come back to, people simply need to look at the facts and accept them. When it comes to politics, I look at the facts and the logic. Even if it's a painful truth I find. I think the problem is, as I said earlier, people are taught WHAT to think, not HOW to think. When people accept and start at the facts, they look at them and arrive at a reasonable conclusion (mainly conservatism), but when they are taught the former (what to think), they start off with a particular set of beliefs and that way, due to indoctrination, are closed off to other opinions and aren't willing to accept or even look at the facts and the other opinions at hand.

    But yeah, that's how I became a conservative and above are the ways I think about things. I didn't want to get too much into WHAT I think, because well, I can't be bothered, but there you have it. What about you, Unifier? Are you a conservative?
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #33 - July 06, 2017, 12:00 PM

    You said this in response to me saying that you should not let the negativity inspire you to support views that call for banning Islam and deporting Muslims:
    I like that view point. Who knows, maybe it's just a phase, or maybe I really do hate the religion. We'll see.

    What did you mean by that?

    And we have exposed Stephen Yaxley-Lennon for what he is time and time again. We have a recent thread where he was discussed and exact details were given as to why he is a racist and a bigot. The Rationaliser wrote a good article exposing him, which I'll post below. You do not have to physically attack Muslims to be an anti-Muslim bigot, you can incite hatred and violence or be an apologist for anti-Muslim violence, just like your man Stephen.

    I don't have the time or the energy to go through your posts and argue each point but if you can't tell the difference between criticising Islam and being anti-Muslim, I suggest you learn. Have a look at the other threads on here and see how the majority of the people on this forum successfully criticise Islam without resorting to ant-Muslim bigotry, it really isn't that hard!

    When you have a bunch of idiots "protesting" outside of a mosque, armed with guns and shouting "Muslims, fuck off back to Mohammedland" then claim that it's not bigotry because they are "criticising Islam" then that's just nonsense. Those are the kind of people who hide their racism behind so-called "criticism of Islam". Same goes for those who claim that Muslims cannot be trusted because they practice "taqiyyah" or whichever other dehumanising conspiracy theory they come up with. People like your man Stephen.

    The reason why people like him are so heavily opposed here is because we are sick of ex-Muslims being associated with them. It actually does a lot of damage for what many of us are trying to achieve.
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #34 - July 06, 2017, 12:44 PM

    Culturally liberal in that I enjoy the presence and company of people of diverse backgrounds.   But philosophically and politically conservative.  I am similar to Hassan I believe in age (though I'm significantly older) and outlook on things religious.   I do still have faith in a loving God, though I have more questions than answers.  My faith reinforces my conservative outlook because I am passionate about individual responsibility and I suspect that dependency on government ultimately demoralizes and destroys people spiritually.  The current unholy alliance between the 'progressive' left and Islamists is worth some discussion and analysis on this site.

    My fantasy for the future is people of diverse backgrounds uniting around shared conservative values and principles.  Ideas do not belong exclusively to one ethnic group, they are there for anyone to understand, embrace and make use of in their lives.   So 'Unifier' would support unity based on God, Family, love of country and personal responsibility for one's self, family and community.  

    The best political commentary over the decades for my money has been from journalists of a conservative mind set and that has buttressed by conservatism.   I voted Republican or conservative up and down the ticket last year, but I did not vote for Trump because some of his statements during the campaign went too far for my taste.   I wrote in John Kasich for president on my ballot.  Made no difference in New York state where Trump was never competitive anyway.

    I agree that Trump has smashed some shibboleths that needed breaking and I agree the left has made the insult 'racist' something to feel proud to be called.
    I look forward to more exchanges on these and other topics.

  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #35 - July 06, 2017, 12:55 PM

    When conservatives are too busy alienating anyone who doesn't fit into their traditional white, Christian, straight, middle-class image of perfection then how do they expect to appeal to the groups that they alienate? I'm not saying that liberals can't be bigots; certain liberals are hypocrites of the worst kind. But by and large it is the right-wing who don't seem to prescribe to reasonable viewpoints on social issues that do not either demonise people like me or exclude us.

    There is a reason why minorities rarely back conservatives.
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #36 - July 06, 2017, 01:24 PM

    Besides, I wouldn't say that a powerful, rich man bullying those far less powerful than he is and being cheered on by all of the people who share his views is something gutsy and to be admired; it's not like he has had to live with anything other than positive consequences and has been rewarded with the highest position in the world. On the other hand, a man like Colin Kaepernick, who has expressed some very unpopular opinions and has been completely vilified (even lost his job), yet stood by his views despite the many negative consequences is the Devil's spawn to right-wingers. Are these supposed to be the champions for free speech, who stand up for it against the so-called regressive left?
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #37 - July 06, 2017, 02:06 PM

    AGirlWithDoubts you reside in the UK ... correct?   Without knowing what you perceive as narrow, condescending or exclusive attitudes by British conservatives its hard for me to comment on that.  All I would say to the first of your posts above is can you identify a more tolerant and open society than GB?  No-one is going to argue that it is perfection, but relative to other countries I think it fares pretty well.   Can you put yourself in the place of people who feel overwhelmed by the rapid pace of immigration and change in their communities?   From everything I've read that you've posted - you don't seem to be willing or able to entertain how a lot of ordinary British residents view their country.   I favor immigration, but on a manageable scale and from this great distance it seems the floodgates have opened too wide and allowed in many people who fundamentally look down on the native Brits and expect to be supported by the welfare system.  When you combine that with the horrendous slaughter inflicted on innocent civilians in the name of the religion of these immigrants you can surely understand that it alarms people.

    The challenge we face is for moderate, reasonable people from diverse backgrounds to make common cause against the extremism that arrived in GB and to reassure and calm the extremism it has aroused in the native population.  Condemning them out of hand may give you a great sense of moral superiority .. but won't solve the problem

    Re: Kaepernick.   One of the false narratives that enjoyed wide circulation in the US is the one promoted by BLM, much of the news media, Obama and Clinton - that the U.S. is institutionally racist and oppressive and that this institutionalized system of oppression is most manifest in wanton murder of black males by the police.   There have of course been incidents of unjustified shootings by police, but the questions that need to be answered are: do they reflect normal behavior by police across the country, have they been dealt with fairly or unfairly by the Criminal Justice System and what is the context for these incidents.   The broadest studies of violent crime, including shootings of police officers as well as by police officers involving criminals of all races does not support the BLM thesis at all.   Further the public calls for killing of police officers at BLM rallies has led to the murder of innocent police officers (the latest occurred yesterday here in NYC).  So Kaepernick is entitled to his free speech but also richly deserves the ridicule returned to him.   His performances on the field were the reason for his career setbacks btw.

  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #38 - July 06, 2017, 02:21 PM

    Welcome fellow Brit Paki. Your upbringing sounds a lot more pleasant than mine. I wasn't allowed to question aspects of the faith, nor even the particular sect we belonged to. I feel angry too, mainly towards preachers and imams who took advantage of disadvantaged communities. So I'm not hardened in my worldview like you. But yes, welcome. Beware of Alex Jones, he's a kook and most of his commentary is laced with outlandish conspiracy theories, even if you do share his libertarian views. As for Yaxley, I think he's far more malevolent than you give him credit for. No he doesn't talk like Richard Dawkins but Dawkins isn't an anti-Muslim bigot either (RD has skirted around what I've thought sounds like bigotry. But then again he's said some rather eccentric things on a number of issues. Poor guy isn't as good at Twitter as he is in the flesh!). But whatever floats your boat if you like Tommy Robinson and that you feel he gets to the point.
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #39 - July 06, 2017, 03:07 PM

    You can't even compare someone with Dawkins' level of intellect to trash like Yaxley-Lennon who anyone with a brain could refute if they weren't too busy being triggered. Comparing those two is laughable.
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #40 - July 07, 2017, 11:59 AM

    Muslims however are the ones currently that are posing a threat in ways which appear to be more apparent, especially here in the UK.

    Muslims or Islamists ?
    This is far-right rhetoric that does not distinguish between the muslims and Islamists.

    “Nobody criticises it openly like they do with Christianity.”

    Where do you think Islam is not being criticised, All over the internet islam is criticised. Channel 4( a mainstream UK broadcaster) aired 2 documentaries of Tom Holland, one questions origins of Islam another looking at how Islamic scriptures influence ISIS.

    The left will talk against anti-abortion laws, homophobia, sexism, etc, all features which Islam is guilty for. They will happily criticise conservatives and the DUP for being "anti-progressive" but will continue to protect Islam.

    I always hear this hogwash trotted out that the left support Islamism. Lots of left wing commentators have criticised Saudi for exporting Radical Islam and supporting ISIS. Every left-wing book shop in London has the books of Dawkins, Harris Ayaan etcwhich criticise Islam

    ^ How is this protecting Islam ?

    In the Uk the left focus on classism, racism and sexism. There isn't the need to discuss Islam as much as Islam has no role in Uk politics and we have freedom to leave religion in the UK. Prior to the Manchester attack there was no suicide bombs detonated  by Islamic militants on Uk non-militants for 12 years.

    It is irrational to believe that you are a racist for criticising Islam. Islam is not a race. Like other ideologies, it is and should be open to criticism. It is irrational to think you are offending "brown" people by speaking the truth. This is a common tactic from the left, they want to associate race with everything. Being a Muslim and being brown have nothing to do with each other.

    Islam is not a race but being muslim is very much a racialized identity. Being a brown person you get racially profiled as being a muslim all day long. I've been racially harassed by the police in the UK for looking muslim where I have been stopped and searched and publicly humiliated not for expressing Islamist views but for being a brown person which in the eyes of those racist policemen makes me a suspect.

    Tommy is a hero to our country.

    That honestly made me cringe when I read that lol.

    It's a shame he's portrayed as a white working class football hooligan racist

    He himself does that. Endlessly getting into public fights and scraps.

     I have so much respect for a man who publicly confronts rapists.

    Where has Tommy criticised the white football coaches paedophilia ring ?

    I didn't have a father to shove religion down his throat, something I have a direct experience with.

    Interestingly I find exmuslims who become far-right in their views are those who have religion really forced on them by family and/or have fallen out with their family over leaving Islam and/or come from a country when the state criminalising leaving Islam.

    He came from a lower-class family. He represents what the people are really thinking.

    Tommy Robinson is a business owner and book salesman. A person who owns the mean of production is not working class or lower class in any shape or form.

    As a conservative, I am against a big government.

    Conservatives are for using the government to subsidize the monarchy, spending billions making nuclear weapons, launching neo-con offensive militant operations, funding plutocratic policies for the military industry, being anti pro-choice and telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies, giving corporations millions in corporate welfare, bailing out banks, telling gay people what they should and shouldn't do and discriminately controlling the movement of people based on where they are born.

    ^^ How is that small government.

    For example, leftists may think it is "racist" or just plain wrong to criticise Islam.
    Sweeping generalisation. I don't think it's racist to criticise Islam nor do most of the many leftists I know. A better way to say this sentence would be  to say "some leftists think criticising Islam is racist". Nuance in communication is important.
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #41 - July 07, 2017, 02:34 PM

    ^^ Great response. Those were all of the points that I couldn't be bothered to list and more.

    On the point about the DUP, does anyone honestly think that an Islamist political party would stand a chance at entering into a government coalition. And do you really think that if that were to happen, there wouldn't be several people fighting tooth and nail against it?

    We barely even heard about the DUP before the coalition proposal.
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #42 - July 11, 2017, 01:01 AM

    Hi...I'm an Ex Muslim Pakistani Girl I can relate to where your coming from bought up in an Islamic household with a father mother being the oldest out of seven siblings

    I don't believe islam is the doorway to evil it's how people use it nonetheless glad to hear your making your voice heard...

    I'm going through the same thing with my Family and Pakistani Community...I haven't yet come across any Ex Muslim Pakistani Girls in the UK but quite a few guys....

    Keep it up  Smiley

  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #43 - July 17, 2017, 05:09 AM

    SubbyX  you are the first ex-Muslim I have encountered who harbors positive thoughts and feelings about Tommy.   I have received a lot of criticism on CEMB simply for arguing he is not a racist or a bigot.

    I never said he was a racist, in fact in one of my posts to you I explicitly said I don't think he is. I do think he's anti-muslim though (note I said anti-muslim, not anti-islam).

    Oooh I just googled it. I've only heard one of their songs, God save the Queen.

    Did you watch it?

    Also, check out Common People by Pulp. The extended version, not the shitty short one.

    Open and honest discussions need to be encouraged.


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #44 - July 17, 2017, 02:49 PM

    Quod ... are you a hopeless egoist?  I wasn't referring to you when I said that some on CEMB had called me a racist for my qualified comments on Mr Robinson.
    It tends to be the ladies who hit the nuclear button most quickly.

  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #45 - July 18, 2017, 03:04 AM

    Wow allot of Brit Pakis Cheesy

    May this mentality spread..
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #46 - July 18, 2017, 06:33 AM

    Quod ... are you a hopeless ?

     An egoist might not be able to honestly answer that. Thus I shall state that I do not believe myself to be an egoist, and am simply pointing out that, as a long standing CEMB member, I do not view Tommy as a racist. An anti-muslim, yes, a racist, no.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • SubbyX - My story
     Reply #47 - July 18, 2017, 04:00 PM

    Anti Muslim ..... or anti Islam?   He's made many statements acknowledging the decency of ordinary Muslims.   But ... don't mind if you don't respond.  Don't really want to re-litigate.

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