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Theme Changer

 Topic: Anti-immigration

 (Read 14645 times)
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  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #30 - May 01, 2017, 10:00 PM

    It's hard not to feel deeply dispirited with regards to the strong sentiments towards immigration that has gripped Britain, as a child of immigrants myself. As someone who frequents online forums of a varied kind every day, you come to know quickly that immigration is everyone's favourite topic which reflects statistics for the wider country where people don't want further immigration. And it's cited as the biggest reason to leave the European Union. But the conversations are often dispiriting because often the crux of the argument is this, 'we the British people never asked for mass immigration and we're pissed off as it's destroyed community cohesion, nationalistic solidarity, jobs have been taken away from the working class etc'. One could say we're looked at with a deep regret, as I am indeed a product of what is called mass immigration.

    On the other hand it's hard not to agree with those who make the point that integration isn't working as it should. I see elements myself being part of the much criticised Pakistani Muslim diaspora. But at the same time one is often viewed as an outsider, a product of something that in a lot of people's minds should never have happened and has ripped apart their idea of Britain. I'm so often caught between a rock and a hard place on these issues. I'm rambling now but basically it's hard not to feel sad when you're subtly told you're not really part of what is 'real Britain', despite the fact that maybe I might be a successful socially integrated immigrant. Even online with the benefits of internet anonymity, it's hard to get involved in political debates over things like tax, the health service, the economy etc. Because Immigration trumps all of these and you're told you belong to that issue.


    It's an issue that will most likely always exist. I'm the product of immigration myself and while I'm white I don't look like a native Englishman. I had abuse because of that growing up but as an adult it's mostly people sort of taking me in and asking where I'm from, or more usually where my family is from. Couple years ago I had a friend visit me from the US, we went out, she took a look at all the people, turned to me and said "Dude, you don't look British". I just shrugged and said it's not my lineage. And I've actually just remembered having a mate round not long ago, we were watching TV, one of the actors came on the screen and my friend said "He looks like you. I've never seen anyone who looks like you before". I swear he was excited. Grin

    I don't think most mean any harm and honestly it's water of a duck's back at this point.

    The working class are usually the ones most affected by immigrants. The ones who decide to increase it either for practical needs or for experiments with multiculturalism will never be affected by it. They won't have to deal with the social changes, the culture clashes. While it is true that immigration is sometimes a necessity it does bring changes, especially when the people who start coming and suddenly living beside you have, what is from your point of view, an alien mindset. Sometimes there are clashes, sometimes there are problems (i.e. Polish gangs or Romanian gangs or Pakistani gangs gypsy gangs or whatever). This is usually a short lived problem though. People settle, form roots, become part of the society and life goes on.

    Cultures change. This is natural. It's up to all people who call this land home to make sure those changes are for the better.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #31 - May 01, 2017, 11:22 PM

    As a white British born ex-pat who has lived in the US for more than 30 years I have agonized over the question of national identity of my country of birth.


    LOL you're not an "ex-pat", you're an immigrant. Deal with it.

    OP, you seriously need to work on your self-esteem. Why on Earth should it bother you what people like that think? Why do you need the approval of people who have such a lowly opinion of you? Surround yourself with positive people who value you beyond where you, your parents or your grandparents come from Smiley
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #32 - May 02, 2017, 12:38 AM

    Did Unifier just claim that the Khudai Khidmatgars were "utilizing the colonizers legal code" to achieve freedom?  Did he just piss all over the non-violent resistance in the Subcontinent that won it's freedom- at cost? I think he did.
    And that is just one colony and one movement. Damn. I can't even believe it. I just got all pissed off.


    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #33 - May 02, 2017, 01:08 PM

    The idea that because multicultural policies or mass immigration should never have happened means that decedents of immigrants should feel unwelcome or rejected is the key reason as to why we, as a nation, have never had a frank and open conversation about the enormous changes taking place across the UK.

    The British public, in particular the white British population, tend to only voice their opinions in hush tones when they know those around them share their concerns. Because, in typically British fashion we are a reserved, polite bunch who don't like to hurt other peoples feelings, we don't want to upset our colleague at work or our next door neighbor by saying his mum and dad should never have been allowed to come here and as an extension you shouldn't be here.

    As reasonable objections to mass immigration and its consequences were abandoned. The only people who feel strongly enough to make a fuss are racists and bigots and as a result, any objections to immigration and multiculturalism became associated with bigotry and a racism which made the topic even more difficult to discuss openly.

    As a result, we live in a rather surreal situation where we know (largely thanks to anonymous opinion polls) that as a whole, we don't like the huge demographic and cultural changes taking place yet we never openly acknowledge this, we only ever hear or read about the 'chicken tikka masala society' or whatever is the latest flowery description the liberal media and politicians have given British society.

    But i don't think it has to be this way, Minorities shouldn't have to feel offended or rejected by people who don't like multiculturalism or mass immigration.

    After all, most of us are only here because of the absence of contraception in the past. If the decedents of immigrants are offended by immigration controls, why don't the decedents of people conceived by accident feel equally offended by contraception? If someone made the argument that contraception is offensive to unwanted, foster children, everyone would say that's ridiculous and rightly so, why does the rule change for immigrants?

    Even though we believe people shouldn't have children they don't want does not mean we wish those children born of irresponsible parents would just disappear. We care for and respect them as human beings.

    Multiculturalism and mass immigration may be overall harmful to Britain in the long term but even the partners of disastrous marriages don't hate the children that these marriages produce.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #34 - May 02, 2017, 02:54 PM

    ^^ Yes, people are all polite and never outwardly tell people who are descended from immigrants that they don't belong here. And you would know this....how? Are you a minority?

    The comparison to people conceiving more due to a lack of contraception is the stupidest thing I have read in a while.

    The best thing the OP can do is learn to stop caring what people like you think.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #35 - May 02, 2017, 03:15 PM


    The British public, in particular the white British population, tend to only voice their opinions in hush tones when they know those around them share their concerns. Because, in typically British fashion we are a reserved, polite bunch who don't like to hurt other peoples feelings, be here.


    I don't think the edl got that memo.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #36 - May 02, 2017, 03:41 PM

    I don't think the edl got that memo.


    The EDL and co. were the people i mentioned immediately after that.

    'The only people who feel strongly enough to make a fuss are racists and bigots.'
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #37 - May 02, 2017, 04:45 PM

    ^^ Yes, people are all polite and never outwardly tell people who are descended from immigrants that they don't belong here. And you would know this....how? Are you a minority?

    The comparison to people conceiving more due to a lack of contraception is the stupidest thing I have read in a while.

    The best thing the OP can do is learn to stop caring what people like you think.


    I never said it never happens. But generally people don't. Obviously I wasn't saying it never happens. Bit of common sense.

    The point was, the descendants of immigrants are offended and feel rejected by arguments against immigrants because without immigration they wouldn't be here yet something like 40 percent of British babies weren't planned/wanted. Surely they should be offended by contraception then, in the same way immigrants and their descendants are offended by strict immigration controls.

    What's the difference?
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #38 - May 02, 2017, 07:05 PM

    ^^ Parents put all of their efforts and money into raising their children, that's why having kids can be stressful and draining. What exactly does the average English person do for me?

    I guess I should thank my clients who need my help on important issues (and who cannot afford to pay me for my services) for allowing me to exist here at their expense, oh wait.... Roll Eyes
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #39 - May 02, 2017, 08:34 PM

    You've completely lost me. I don't think you even understood what I was arguing for in the first place
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #40 - May 02, 2017, 09:15 PM

    You were comparing the way that parents view their children to the way White Brits view immigrants and their descendants. That's stupid because the latter has done nothing for us, so what they think of us is irrelevant, and the OP should realise this next time he comes across anti-immigrant people.

    We owe them nothing.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #41 - May 02, 2017, 09:55 PM

    I'm arguing that minorities shouldn't be offended or feel rejected when people complain about immigration and multiculturalism.

    That's it. Nothing else.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #42 - May 02, 2017, 10:08 PM

    Sure we shouldn't, but not for the reasons that you stated. We shouldn't care, because such people are irrelevant to our lives. They are not to us what a parent is to a child.

    You view me as a mistake? Well, guess what, you and your opinion  mean nothing to me. Your approval isn't needed.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #43 - May 02, 2017, 10:28 PM

    But we need to come together as a society to have a sense of nationality that goes beyond ethnicity or religion. For the benefit of everyone.

    So you should care how your fellow countrymen sees you.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #44 - May 02, 2017, 11:39 PM

    I'm arguing that minorities shouldn't be offended or feel rejected when people complain about immigration and multiculturalism.

    That's it. Nothing else.


    The converse of that courtesy should also apply when minorities complain about being treated as lesser beings for being, er, minorities, and this argument pointedly fails to account for what happens when such complaints are weaponised. In reality, sticking your neck out as a minority often carries practical consequences, and your lofty abstraction happily ignores this; in short, your argument boils down to 'minorities: STFU'.

    But that's OK, because we're talking only in hypotheticals here... right?

    So you should care how your fellow countrymen sees you.

    If they're determined to be arseholes about it, "care" really is the wrong word.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #45 - May 03, 2017, 02:02 AM

    in short, your argument boils down to 'minorities: STFU'


    This. It's dreadfully ironic that he more or less accuses us of silencing people like him who want to complain about immigrants by challenging the way they view immigrants. At the same time, he is attempting to silence when we object to these views because it makes those who complain about immigrants feel bad. OK  Huh?

    At least in our case we are complaining about them for talking about us as though we are some sort of burden on them (entitled much?) On the other hand they are complaining about us for....existing.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #46 - May 03, 2017, 07:36 AM

    The converse of that courtesy should also apply when minorities complain about being treated as lesser beings for being, er, minorities, and this argument pointedly fails to account for what happens when such complaints are weaponised. In reality, sticking your neck out as a minority often carries practical consequences, and your lofty abstraction happily ignores this; in short, your argument boils down to 'minorities: STFU'.

    But that's OK, because we're talking only in hypotheticals here... right?
    If they're determined to be arseholes about it, "care" really is the wrong word.


    Come on, this isn't the 1960s anymore. Ever since Enoch Powell made his speech in 1968 we have decided as a nation never to seriously discuss immigration and it's consequences but we've moved on since those times and the censorship isn't necessary.

    If you think about it, any political argument can be used as a weapon against someone, if people shouldn't argue against immigration because it can be used as a weapon against minorities then we shouldn't argue for communism or socialism because it can be used as a weapon against the rich. You shouldn't argue for free market neo-liberal capitalism because it can be used as a weapon against the poor.

    Does that mean we shouldn't discuss anything because it might be used as a weapon against someone?
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #47 - May 03, 2017, 09:08 AM

    Come on, this isn't the 1960s anymore. Ever since Enoch Powell made his speech in 1968 we have decided as a nation never to seriously discuss immigration and it's consequences but we've moved on since those times and the censorship isn't necessary.

    No serious discussion on immigration has occurred because Britain has been too busy self-censoring. Right.

    So presumably no journalists or thinktanks have weighed in, no major political parties have made capital from the issue, and no manifesto committments have resulted directly from it. Certainly no government has taken it seriously enough to make a line on immigration from a party of no-hopers with an unhealthy obsession with immigrants its own.

    Either I've dreamt that immigration has been a defining issue in British politics over the last decade at the very least, or your assertion is bollocks.

    Does that mean we shouldn't discuss anything because it might be used as a weapon against someone?

    I must have missed that history lesson where they proved that neutral, dispassionate discussions are what fire up mobs.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #48 - May 03, 2017, 09:16 AM

    Wow ... you're psychic then.  You have enhanced powers to go with your tolerant outlook.

    And your reference to Britain's history of 'aggressive' imperialism suggests you see the arrival of large numbers of former colonials in Britain
    with innate resentment or even hostility to GB and its inhabitants as totally justified pay back for past sins.   I'd love to see you argue that position publicly.

    I assume you support the right of any colonized people to independence and to freedom from the shackles and indignities of subservient status.  Just not the
    residents of the British Isles.   Of course I exaggerate.  The British people are not colonized yet in the way the peoples of the British Empire were.   Though those colonized peoples were able to use the culture, religious beliefs, government institutions and legal code of their colonizers to de-colonize and achieve freedom.
    What has happened in Britain so far is small scale cultural hegemony and attempted takeover at the neighborhood level.   Tower Hamlets (attempted election fraud), Sparkbrook (attempted Islamization of parts of the education system),  Rochdale (rape of 1400 girls by Pakistani rape gangs), parts of Luton and elsewhere suggest that such transformations do not indicate a happier state of existence for non Muslim residents.



    Correct me if I'm wrong but you say 'non Muslim residents' in a way that suggests that 'Muslims' on the other hand are content with what's happened in those particular places? There was a lot of shame amongst proud Muslims of those communities. I live in the area of the 'Trojan horse' plot of several years ago. Certainly with the cases of the northern mill town cases of sexual assault (which are deeply troubling but aren't representative of British Muslims in general), there was deep shame and I remember from the community standing up to condemn the attacks at the time.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #49 - May 03, 2017, 09:45 AM

    It's an issue that will most likely always exist. I'm the product of immigration myself and while I'm white I don't look like a native Englishman. I had abuse because of that growing up but as an adult it's mostly people sort of taking me in and asking where I'm from, or more usually where my family is from. Couple years ago I had a friend visit me from the US, we went out, she took a look at all the people, turned to me and said "Dude, you don't look British". I just shrugged and said it's not my lineage. And I've actually just remembered having a mate round not long ago, we were watching TV, one of the actors came on the screen and my friend said "He looks like you. I've never seen anyone who looks like you before". I swear he was excited. Grin

    I don't think most mean any harm and honestly it's water of a duck's back at this point.

    The working class are usually the ones most affected by immigrants. The ones who decide to increase it either for practical needs or for experiments with multiculturalism will never be affected by it. They won't have to deal with the social changes, the culture clashes. While it is true that immigration is sometimes a necessity it does bring changes, especially when the people who start coming and suddenly living beside you have, what is from your point of view, an alien mindset. Sometimes there are clashes, sometimes there are problems (i.e. Polish gangs or Romanian gangs or Pakistani gangs gypsy gangs or whatever). This is usually a short lived problem though. People settle, form roots, become part of the society and life goes on.

    Cultures change. This is natural. It's up to all people who call this land home to make sure those changes are for the better.


    If the discussion was on integration I don't know if I'd be alienated as much. I see so many people on forums and on social media making the point that Britain is 'full'. A point that even Douglas Murray concedes is false because it's such an inane remark.

    With the famous cases of the Pakistani gangs, I was repulsed when the reports first broke and I come from that region of Pakistan. If what happened in Rotherham was part of 'culture', it was alien to me too. Of all the issues I have with my parents and community in Birmingham, I was never told that other races were inferior and their women to regarded as 'easy meat'.

    My view for a long while has been about reinforcing secular, liberal values that yes, a lot of liberal Muslims as well as ex-Muslims subscribe to. They're immigrants too, or children of immigrants. It's something British society hasn't done enough. Though to some people that's still a utopian idea and focusing on 'Muslim immigration' in of itself is the defining issue but whatever.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #50 - May 03, 2017, 01:22 PM

    With regards to the pakistaki rape gangs, the authorities share a lot of the blame. If they weren't so terrified of being called racist or islamophobic at the expense of children, how long would it have gone on?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #51 - May 03, 2017, 02:54 PM

    No serious discussion on immigration has occurred because Britain has been too busy self-censoring. Right.

    So presumably no journalists or thinktanks have weighed in, no major political parties have made capital from the issue, and no manifesto committments have resulted directly from it. Certainly no government has taken it seriously enough to make a line on immigration from a party of no-hopers with an unhealthy obsession with immigrants its own.

    Either I've dreamt that immigration has been a defining issue in British politics over the last decade at the very least, or your assertion is bollocks.
    I must have missed that history lesson where they proved that neutral, dispassionate discussions are what fire up mobs.


    It' true that the censorship has been lifted somewhat in recent years as people have grown tired of being automatically being called a racist and a bigot if they don't agree with politically correct views on immigration but if you think over the past few decades we have been able to have an open conversation about immigration and multiculturalism then frankly you must be living on another planet.

    Perhaps the misunderstanding is with the word 'open'. Sure, we have been able to talk about immigration as much as we like, you can talk about how foreigners enrich our country and how you love immigration and how it gives you the chance to experience other cultures etc etc. But as soon as you do anything more than tentatively criticize immigration on economic grounds, you run the risk of being labelled a racist and a bigot which is, of course, social suicide.

    Acceptance of foreigners has became a measuring stick used to measure peoples moral worth. There has been an unspoken agreement that those who argue against immigration are old fashioned, bigoted racists whose irrational hatred  of foreign people drive their anti immigration views (even if they may try to hide it), while those who are pro-immigration are modern, vibrant, progressive, open-minded people who should be applauded and admired. This is why issues regarding immigration and racism tend to cause a much larger public outcry compared to other issues, it gives British people a chance to show off to others how much of a good person they are.

    Immigration IS a neutral discussion, sure, people might use it as an excuse to attack certain groups of people, as has happened before, but that could potentially happen arguing about any topic.

    If i write an ardent defense of socialism, some less privileged people might go out and break into the rich people's house down the road. Should I not be allowed to talk advocate socialism then?

    If i advocate traditional christian values, some people may go out and attack open homosexuals and single mothers. Should Christians be censored too?

    Why does immigration receive a special censorship on the grounds some people may be targeted and nothing else does?

  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #52 - May 03, 2017, 04:50 PM

    It' true that the censorship has been lifted somewhat in recent years as people have grown tired of being automatically being called a racist and a bigot if they don't agree with politically correct views on immigration but if you think over the past few decades we have been able to have an open conversation about immigration and multiculturalism then frankly you must be living on another planet.

    Perhaps the misunderstanding is with the word 'open'. Sure, we have been able to talk about immigration as much as we like, you can talk about how foreigners enrich our country and how you love immigration and how it gives you the chance to experience other cultures etc etc. But as soon as you do anything more than tentatively criticize immigration on economic grounds, you run the risk of being labelled a racist and a bigot which is, of course, social suicide.

    Acceptance of foreigners has became a measuring stick used to measure peoples moral worth. There has been an unspoken agreement that those who argue against immigration are old fashioned, bigoted racists whose irrational hatred  of foreign people drive their anti immigration views (even if they may try to hide it), while those who are pro-immigration are modern, vibrant, progressive, open-minded people who should be applauded and admired. This is why issues regarding immigration and racism tend to cause a much larger public outcry compared to other issues, it gives British people a chance to show off to others how much of a good person they are.

    You mean... social attitudes have moved on and being openly nasty about foreigners or black and brown people isn't the done thing anymore? Sounds like a sense of nationality that goes beyond ethnicity or religion to me. Aren't you meant to be for that sort of thing?

    Immigration IS a neutral discussion

    Neutral to whom? Certainly it is not at the level of practical politics, where it all too often is a proxy for race (yeah, go ahead and deny that), and absolutely not at the level of legislation designed to turn the rest of us into cops. A case in point.

    If i write an ardent defense of socialism, some less privileged people might go out and break into the rich people's house down the road. Should I not be allowed to talk advocate socialism then?

    If i advocate traditional christian values, some people may go out and attack open homosexuals and single mothers. Should Christians be censored too?

    Why does immigration receive a special censorship on the grounds some people may be targeted and nothing else does?

    I think I see your problem. You're confusing the mechanisms of censorship - the curtailing of freedom of expression - with the dynamic reactions of other people to socially unpopular opinions. If you find yourself self-censoring in your conversations - a slightly different thing to being censored, but whatever - to avoid such negative feedback, congratulations: you've just found yourself in a minority and have side-stepped having to justify your own existence.

    And yet, a non-optional self-justification (for those of us who don't look or sound 'local') is something you apparently expect others here to undergo when they are drawn into talk about there being too many immigrants or how The Muslims are Taking Over. To illustrate - as English as I may sound in real life, I will always have a brown skin, and certain groups of people will always home in on my appearance as an indicator for 'foreign' and/or 'Muslim'. Are you seriously going to tell me not to take it personally when I hear 'go back where you came from' or worse? I mean, if we're really talking about popular discourse on immigration, this is precisely what an awful lot of it comes down to, and there's no detoxifying it because it's said with the exact opposite of dispassion. Why should I - or anyone else - pretend that this isn't the case?
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #53 - May 03, 2017, 07:40 PM

    With regards to the pakistaki rape gangs, the authorities share a lot of the blame. If they weren't so terrified of being called racist or islamophobic at the expense of children, how long would it have gone on?


    Yes, there was a systematic level of ignorance by everyone. I cant remember any reports of individual people of the diaspora asking to cover it up. It's not too surprising that there was a blind eye to this from the top level as well. Look at SIR Jimmy Savile, a national treasure. That went on for an extremely long time too.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #54 - May 03, 2017, 07:46 PM

    There are a number of social workers and former social workers who have told how they tried to bring it up and were shut down in the name of community tensions and other such buzz words. Jimmy Savile was able to get away with it by being a figure of power, both as someone in the public eye and that he counted high up politicians and coppers as friends. I remember reading an article where it quoted a policeman saying it was a very real worry Jimmy would get him fired. The worry of retribution is the similar factor in both cases but the ways and means of what happened are worlds apart. Both need to be addressed.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #55 - May 03, 2017, 10:30 PM

    I reread your last post, monstart, and it struck me that you've come up with a near-ideal form of the reactionary's lament. As an experiment, a little find and replace exercise:

    Quote
    Acceptance of feminists has became a measuring stick used to measure peoples moral worth. There has been an unspoken agreement that those who argue against feminism are old fashioned, bigoted misogynists whose irrational hatred  of women drive their anti feminist views (even if they may try to hide it), while those who are pro-feminist are modern, vibrant, progressive, open-minded people who should be applauded and admired. This is why issues regarding feminism and misogyny tend to cause a much larger public outcry compared to other issues, it gives British people a chance to show off to others how much of a good person they are.


    Quote
    Acceptance of LGBT people has became a measuring stick used to measure peoples moral worth. There has been an unspoken agreement that those who argue against LGBT acceptance are old fashioned, bigoted homophobes whose irrational hatred  of LGBT people drive their anti LGBT equality views (even if they may try to hide it), while those who are pro-LGBT are modern, vibrant, progressive, open-minded people who should be applauded and admired. This is why issues regarding LGBT people and homophobia tend to cause a much larger public outcry compared to other issues, it gives British people a chance to show off to others how much of a good person they are.


    Quote
    Acceptance of people with disabilities has became a measuring stick used to measure peoples moral worth. There has been an unspoken agreement that those who argue against laws forbidding disability discrimination are old fashioned, bigoted ableists whose irrational hatred  of the disabled drive their anti-disabled views (even if they may try to hide it), while those who are pro-disability rights are modern, vibrant, progressive, open-minded people who should be applauded and admired. This is why issues regarding disability and ableism tend to cause a much larger public outcry compared to other issues, it gives British people a chance to show off to others how much of a good person they are.

  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #56 - May 04, 2017, 12:13 AM

    If the discussion was on integration I don't know if I'd be alienated as much. I see so many people on forums and on social media making the point that Britain is 'full'. A point that even Douglas Murray concedes is false because it's such an inane remark.

    With the famous cases of the Pakistani gangs, I was repulsed when the reports first broke and I come from that region of Pakistan. If what happened in Rotherham was part of 'culture', it was alien to me too. Of all the issues I have with my parents and community in Birmingham, I was never told that other races were inferior and their women to regarded as 'easy meat'.

    My view for a long while has been about reinforcing secular, liberal values that yes, a lot of liberal Muslims as well as ex-Muslims subscribe to. They're immigrants too, or children of immigrants. It's something British society hasn't done enough. Though to some people that's still a utopian idea and focusing on 'Muslim immigration' in of itself is the defining issue but whatever.


    I have heard that sentiment, that white girls are easy prey and their parents don't mind- Look how they dress! But I did not hear it from Pakistanis before. Not ever.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #57 - May 04, 2017, 01:09 AM

    Quote
    I have heard that sentiment, that white girls are easy prey and their parents don't mind- Look how they dress! But I did not hear it from Pakistanis before. Not ever.


    The theory is that because Pakistani parents are so conservative to the point that some would rather send their children to the homeland to have them married there, that's helped created some sexually frustrated men. And that Islam comes into play where you're not allowed to have sex outside marriage. That in itself really problematic, especially for those who have no choice but to have an arranged marriage (and it's more often the girls in this case). I don't think Pakistani parents intend for such consequences where some of their kids (and it's usually in the deprived northern cities) to foster such racist views.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #58 - May 04, 2017, 02:13 AM

    I am not sure that theory holds up, since you are describing most Muslim communities. There can't be a monopoly on shame among those who immigrated from the Subcontinent.
    It's the norm for all of our communities, right?

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Anti-immigration
     Reply #59 - May 04, 2017, 05:18 AM

    Arranged marriage is probably the norm, most get married here just to clarify. I guess the real contentious issue is forced marriage.
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