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Theme Changer

 Topic: What is the reason for not believing islam ?

 (Read 2415 times)
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  • What is the reason for not believing islam ?
     OP - December 28, 2016, 09:30 PM

    Muslims fasted and the logic behind it was to understand what poor people deprived of food must be undergoing so that we the fortunate ones are humbled by these experiences. But many households especially of the rich, breaking fast is a feast; my family included. We have a lavish spread for breaking fast and the entire household will be involved in making an array of delicacies for this. Eid is celebrated extravagantly and this defeats the logic behind fasting and celebrating Eid.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCsou6xNiXE
  • Logic behind fasting in Islam ?
     Reply #1 - December 29, 2016, 12:49 AM

    I never understood the point of fasting either.

    If its done understand the pain that the poor suffer then the poor shouldn't have to fast. yet the poor do fast.

    if its done to make us have empathy for the poor. then it doesn't work. if we had some empathy for the poor the muslim nations would've by now (having felt all the 'pain' of the poor through years of fasting) at least put into place some kind of welfare system and housing for the poor.

    if its done to teach some kind of self discipline for mind and soul....then maybe it works.

    I think the hours are ridiculous and this summer I know a few people decided to keep the fast for just 7 hours.
  • Logic behind fasting in Islam ?
     Reply #2 - December 29, 2016, 02:35 AM

    I was really lucky to be able to fast without any fanfare iftar, because I worked second shift and broke fast in the middle of my workday, by myself. Me and one date and a drinking fountain before hitting the carpet. I really miss Ramadhan sometimes, but never for the iftars you describe.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Logic behind fasting in Islam ?
     Reply #3 - December 29, 2016, 08:07 AM

     
    ...............Logic behind fasting in Islam ? ..............

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCsou6xNiXE


    for a healthy human  being or for that matter to any highly evolved biological healthy species

    THERE IS NO LOGIC AND RATIONALE  FOR FASTING    ... it is stupid,  irrational and illogical ..  If you cannot digest what you have eaten  stop eating until you digest ...  it is as simple as that

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Logic behind fasting in Islam ?
     Reply #4 - December 29, 2016, 01:39 PM

    I never understood the point of fasting either.

    If its done understand the pain that the poor suffer then the poor shouldn't have to fast. yet the poor do fast.

    if its done to make us have empathy for the poor. then it doesn't work. if we had some empathy for the poor the muslim nations would've by now (having felt all the 'pain' of the poor through years of fasting) at least put into place some kind of welfare system and housing for the poor.

    if its done to teach some kind of self discipline for mind and soul....then maybe it works.

    I think the hours are ridiculous and this summer I know a few people decided to keep the fast for just 7 hours.


    I agree, fasting is a difficult task indeed and with the variation in time zones, sometimes you end up fasting more than required. Even, if this fasting would be to discipline mind and soul, it would still be unnecessary to keep fasting for prolonged hours  Wink
  • Logic behind fasting in Islam ?
     Reply #5 - December 29, 2016, 01:42 PM

    I was really lucky to be able to fast without any fanfare iftar, because I worked second shift and broke fast in the middle of my workday, by myself. Me and one date and a drinking fountain before hitting the carpet. I really miss Ramadhan sometimes, but never for the iftars you describe.


    It is good to end and not exhaust your body. But I have also seen few of my friends who would keep fasting even if they fell sick. That was sad to watch. Also, the delicacies after breaking fast was always meaningless to me because I think we didnot need so much food  Tongue . I have also seen many of my friends in London preparing or buying loads of food and then its not even possible to finish them too soon, so they are wasted, and food wastage is bad  Cry
  • Logic behind fasting in Islam ?
     Reply #6 - December 29, 2016, 01:44 PM


    for a healthy human  being or for that matter to any highly evolved biological healthy species

    THERE IS NO LOGIC AND RATIONALE  FOR FASTING    ... it is stupid,  irrational and illogical ..  If you cannot digest what you have eaten  stop eating until you digest ...  it is as simple as that

    As you see, so much food is wasted in Middle East. There must be so many poor, homeless people who have no food or shelter and to waste so much food even in the 'holy month' is definitely bad. Its true if they cannot digest so much, why order so much in the first place  finmad
  • Logic behind fasting in Islam ?
     Reply #7 - December 29, 2016, 03:10 PM

    It is good to end and not exhaust your body. But I have also seen few of my friends who would keep fasting even if they fell sick. That was sad to watch. Also, the delicacies after breaking fast was always meaningless to me because I think we didnot need so much food  Tongue . I have also seen many of my friends in London preparing or buying loads of food and then its not even possible to finish them too soon, so they are wasted, and food wastage is bad  Cry


    I did experiment with the foods I ate during Ramadhan and I found that loads of sugar and heavy foods made fasting more difficult. I also could not take in caffeine without unpleasant effects.  I think with limiting your intake so severely it is even more important to eat nutrient rich foods like greens and lean proteins rather than oily or sugary things.
    The best days I had during Ramadhan, the days where I felt high and fasting was a breeze, were the days that I had salads and dates and fish and no desserts.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Logic behind fasting in Islam ?
     Reply #8 - December 29, 2016, 05:06 PM

     Afro
  • What is the reason for not believing islam ?
     Reply #9 - January 04, 2017, 01:24 AM

    Quran and Muhammad teach that it is permissible halal to capture and rape female work captives even if the woman is married and their non- Muslim husband are still alive.

    So lets investigate the Islamic source what they say:
    Quarn in chapter 4 verses 22 and 23 inform:

    Muslim man about the categories of women which their forbidden to marry but
    in Sura 4. An-Nisa , Part-5, Ayat no 24 says: Also women already married, except  those(slaves)  whom your right hand possess.
    So we see here in the Quran an exception or example that  it is permissible halal for Muslim man to marry women who already has husband.
    But who are the women described as being owned or possessed by your right hand.
    For the answer latest term to the most famous commentator on the Quran even preacher who comment Quran chapter 424 said the following :
    Allah said:
    (Also Forbidden are women already married accept those whom your right hand possess.)
     
    That’s  means : you are prohibited from marrying women who are already married.
    Except those whom you right hand possess , except those whom you acquire through war, for you are allowed such women after making sure they are not pregnant
    Imam Ahmed recorded that Abu said Al- khudri said ‘we capture some women from the area  of awtas  who are already married and we dislike having sexual relation with them because they are already had husband. So we asked the prophet about this matter and this
    ayah was revealed : 
    Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom you r right hands possess.
    Consequently, we had sexual relations with these women . ‘
    This is the reordering collected by At-Tirmidih An nasa , Ibn jarir and muslim in his sahih.

    Now at this point maybe you are shocked, maybe you asked yourself, this is impossible. The glorious Quran and noble prophet Muhammad never taught such sexual and morality, ,maybe you think they are more positive interpretations to  the Quran chapter  4 verses 24 or maybe you even think yourself that the great Islamic scholar and the most famous Quran commentator is completely wrong has no idea what he his talking about.

    Example:
    Sunan Abu Dawud  vol-2, chapter 43/44, no:2155, An-Nisa 4:24
    Abu Saeed Al Khudri narrated that the messenger of Allah (Mohammed) sent an military expedition to awtas on the day of Hunain and they met the enemy, fought them and won the battle . they captured  some slaves but some of the companion of the messenger of Allah  felt uncomfortable in having relation(meaning sex) with them(meaning female captured) because of their pagan husband.

    At this allah revealed ‘ And chaste, free women, except for those whom your right hand possess’. Meaning that they are allowed for them after their waiting period have finished ( Sahih)
    This Hadid informed us the Muslim soldier have a problem, they wanted to have sex with female captured but this women are already married and they have husband who are still living. So Mohammad then  claims to receive the revelation from Allah that instruct the Muslim man to wait for a period of time to ensure that the female captured is not pregnant then after that period this Muslim man are allow to go have sex with this married women.
    Now ask this self question how do you feel if your wife or any women in your  family was captured by some enemy soldier then forced to divorce her husband then forced to marry one of those enemy soldier then force to have sex with that enemy soldier whom she  obviously hated . and all of this happened when her husband still alive. Do you think your wife , your sister, your daughter or your mother would agreed to have this humiliation force upon her. No sane person in his and her right mind could defend the Quran and Mohammed issue. This is nothing more than legalized to rape a married women and I cannot believe this is from god. so therefore I am rejecting the Quran and Mohammed in this issue.
  • What is the reason for not believing islam ?
     Reply #10 - January 04, 2017, 03:44 AM

    This is a very valid point and you have laid it out quite well. But I am not sure that divorce or marriage is even a prerequisite to raping a captive. Surely it would have been mentioned. I see how iddah is required, but a third party cannot force a divorce between two people who were consenting adults with the approval of their families, so I don't think that was a requirement.
    I think you are right to call it rape. Let's just use the most precise labels and skip the assumed divorce and marriage bits of this slave raping.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • What is the reason for not believing islam ?
     Reply #11 - January 04, 2017, 03:17 PM

    What a heinous crime
  • What is the reason for not believing islam ?
     Reply #12 - January 04, 2017, 03:59 PM

    What a heinous crime

    All heinous crimes of every faith..past and present and future   can easily be eliminated  with a simple single statement   along with  publically  INSULTING  THESE ROGUES OF ISLAM that brain wash children..like this one  dear   faqmylo .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swgTu8H9Jic

    .  That is  Ibrahim Abou Nagie born in Palestine migrated to Germany  and brainwashing  German children  with HIS ISLAM  and  recent news  says  http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/world/europe/germany-bans-true-religion-islamist-group-and-raids-mosques.html?_r=0

    Quote
    True Religion and that is known for distributing German-language copies of the Quran was outlawed on Tuesday, after the authorities accused it of recruiting jihadists to fight in Iraq and Syria.


    Banning may be a quick fix for time being but that will not work for a long time.. Irrespective what these IDIOTS preach What will help west and east on these  faith heads propaganda is..

    Head of every government saying THESE FAITH BOOKS/MANNUAL ARE NOT WORD OF SOME ALLAH/GOD  but books of their time  written by some cave dwellers..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What is the reason for not believing islam ?
     Reply #13 - January 05, 2017, 01:14 AM

    So I thought I'd expand on the above, because I honestly meant these to be arguments.

    1) The quran:

    The quran claims itself to be the perfect uncorrupted word of god. That's it's biggest flaw. It invites challenge in a way other holy texts don't, and is really to arrogant for it's own good. The level is enough that it doesn't have the flexibility needed to stand the test of time. The fact that it doesn't have this flexibility, and that it needs it in the first place, is an argument against it in my opinion.

    2) Sanity

    There's only so much a human being can reasonably be held accountable for when it comes to spiritual matters. There's a verse in the quran which says allah has not given us two hearts. I personally view this as metaphorical, not literal. We view and believe certain things a certain way. I cannot at the same time believe in the quran while seeing flaws in it.

    3) Reality

    The quran, like all the other holy texts, claims to be the word of god. The way to verify this is testing it, see if it stacks up. Quite frankly it doesn't. Dust devils and jinns, spontaneous human creation, great flood, there's a lot to choose from, but I'll pick a few.

    The story of the arc and the great flood. This would have happened around 4000 years ago. It's quite simply impossible for the number of races, ethnicities and the huge amount of genetic traits to come from one incestuous family in just 4000 years. It cannot happen. Something else that puts a hole in the story is the amount of people who were thriving at this point. God flooded the entire world. Except for the Chinese who were developing at an incredible rate and remained unaffected from a global flood that wiped out every human on the planet. The Japanese were also unaffected. And the Africans. And the Europeans. And the Native Americans. And the Aztecs. And the South Americans. And most of the middle east.  The flood never happened. It's not real.

    The quran teaches that humans were created from clay in a specific creation. If you're to count on the hadiths, then it's just even more ludicrous. We know the first human was not a 90 foot tall clay giant. Even if you don't take the hadiths into account, it also doesn't account for evolution, the proof of which is overwhelming. Nor does it account for the number of people today who have Neanderthal DNA in them from before the Neanderthals went extinct. Everything I know to be proven fact contradicts the claims of the quran. The only logical conclusion I can come to is that it was a story told by ancient societies because they didn't have any answers. Adam never existed. It's not real.

    The sun orbits the Earth...yeah, we've known that's bullshit for a few centuries now.

    It says in the quran that in the embryo/foetus the bones are the first thing to form. "So we made the clot a morsel, so we made the morsel bones, so we clothed the bones (with) meat". This is wrong. The skeleton is actually among the last to be formed. You'd think the all knowing creator of everything would realise this. It's wrong.

    The stars are missiles to be hurled at jinns. Or they hunt demons. I haven't read the quran in a while so I can't remember the exact quote, but you can look it up to see exactly what it says. This is also wrong. The stars are just stars, they do the exact same thing as the star we orbit, the sun.

    Women are defective in intelligence. Coming from a culture where gender mixing is the norm and close relationships aren't looked down upon, I can tell you this isn't true from my own experience. And then there's current trends in school grades, sciences, IQ and employment performance, the fact there are women in MENSA (if you don't know MENSA is like a super genius club, only 2% of the human population globally have a high enough IQ to qualify for membership). Now we live in an age men and women have equal rights, women are on the same level and even starting to out preform men. So I'm going to say this is wrong.

    4) Nonsense

    Do you believe that allah puts a veil over our hearts? If the answer to this is yes, then my reply to that would be that I'm blameless. If the reason I don't see the truth of islam is because allah put a veil over my heart, then it stands to reason I'll be punished (by being sent to hell) for a crime I didn't commit. My reason for saying I'm being punished for a crime I didn't commit is that allah delibertly put a veil over my heart so I would never know him, therefore the fault is allah's, not mine.

    Do you believe nothing happens accept by allah's will? If so then it's the same as above. If nothing happens except by allah's will, then allah made sure I wouldn't believe in him. So again the fault lies with allah, not myself.

    Do you believe islam teaches there's no compulsion in religion? If so does that mean if you don't accept islam as true, then you go to hell? If so, this means that allah has told us something to be taken as truth, and he punishes us for taking him at his word instead of assuming he was lying.

    Do you believe in the virgin birth? If so, can you understand why I might think it's more likely that a teenage girl told a lie rather than a virgin magically conceiving a child, carrying it to term, birthing it, and the child while still an infant speaking?

    Can you also understand why it may be confusing that said infant would only speak once to a few people and refuse to speak again to others, which would cause all doubt in the divinity of allah to be wiped away?

    Here's a situation. Let's say there's something in your house you don't like. It offends you. Let's also say you have the power of a god. Would you A) throw away the thing you didn't like or give it to charity, or B) bring it to life, give it intelligence so it can understand what's happening, enable it to feel pain, and torture it forever and ever and ever? Which is more merciful?

    5) Common sense

    It becomes a common sense issue. Let's say that I'm wrong. Let's say all the things I'm of the opinion are true are wrong. It doesn't change the fact that I find the quran unbelievable. I can't have more knowledge than what's available to me. Let's take evolution. I find it believable. I'm convinced of it. The quran goes against it. I have no reason whatsoever, nothing at all compelling me to believe the quranic story over proven scientific fact.

    Or another, let's take the big bang. I'm convinced by what knowledge I have that before the universe, and after the universe, there was no Earth. This planet did not exist. It took a very long time for our star to be born and for our planet to form. This seems plausible to me. From what I know of physics and cosmology, I can accept this. I have no reason whatsoever to believe that the Earth existed from the start and was ripped apart from heaven.

    Or another. The quran and hadiths suggest a flat Earth. At one point it's spread out like a carpet, at another the Earth is like an ostrich egg (had to pick the bird that buries it's egg and flattens the soil), allah will roll up the Earth like parchment/paper, and on and on it goes. Everything I'm aware of tells me this is wrong. It becomes less and less believable to me. So with all this in mind, common sense tells me that the only truth that lies hidden in the quran is simply the truths of the cultural norms and mindset of that society and time. Historically and psychologically it's interesting, but that's all it is. No more, no less.

    And I have to admit, these aren't even my strongest arguments. I haven't thought about this endlessly, I haven't delved into the theology to throw things at you. The above is just what came to mind as I sit here filling the time on a lazy Sunday evening.


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What is the reason for not believing islam ?
     Reply #14 - January 05, 2017, 01:17 AM

    On Moses, the most mentioned prophet in the quran.

    There's no evidence at all, for any of it. Not for a historical Moses, not for the slaves, not for the plagues, not for the desert wanderings, nothing. I'm a little drunk right now but I'll try to give an idea.

    The first thing to mention is that there's no real evidence of jewish slaves in ancient Egypt, at least not in the scale the abrahamic religions would have us believe. At the time of the supposed uprising there were 600,000 families, which works out to about two million people. Two million people who lived under hardship and tyrannical rule. Let's not even mention that the ancient Egyptians treated slaves as a common practise in ways that are completely contradictory to this. Let's not even mention that they couldn't of built the pyramids because they were supposedly enslaved around three centuries AFTER the completion of the pyramids in 1750 B.C.

    First off, the Egyptians kept good records. It's how we know so much about them. If they lost two million of their slaves, the economy would have collapsed overnight. Never happened. The competing empires would have smelled blood in the water. Never happened. There's not a single footnote even among the Roman Empire that says "Hey, hear what happened in Egypt?" It would of been big news. No mention of it. Anywhere. Nothing.

    The desert they were lost in for 40 years? 120 miles across. They could of walked from one end to the other in a week. There are people who crossed the width of America, which is what, 2700 miles? 3000 miles? Took them a year. The better part of three thousand miles and you cross it in a year. 120? Two million people, used to the desert, are lost for four decades.

    You also have to wonder why they did it in the first place. Egypt is basically the Nile. Just 50 miles the other way a huge body of fresh water that no one knew was there. If god wanted them safe, wouldn't that make more sense? But no. Two million desert natives lost for 40 years in a desert they would of crossed in one week.

    While living there for all that time, they left nothing. No pottery. No hebrew writing. No camp remains. No food remains. No place of worship, no discarded or ripped piece of cloth, nothing.

    And that really sums it up, there's nothing. No records of losing a quarter of the entire population. No records of economic downturn. No evidence of families surviving in the desert. There wasn't even a labour shortage.

    You'd almost think it was made up.

    The entire story seems to be a plagiarism of Sargon of Akkad, a story that pre-dates Moses by a millennia. While he was clearly a brilliant military leader, it was the story he told of his youth and rise to power that exerted a powerful influence over the Sumerians he sought to conquer. Instead of representing himself as a man chosen by the gods to rule, he presented a much humbler image of himself as an orphan set adrift in life who was taken in by a kind gardener and granted the love of the goddess Inanna. His mother could not reveal her pregnancy or keep the child, and so she placed him in a basket which she then let go on the Euphrates River. She had sealed the basket with tar, and the water carried him safely to where he was later found by a man named Akki who was a gardener for Ur-Zababa, the king of the Sumerian city of Kish. In creating this legend, Sargon carefully distanced himself from the kings of the past (who claimed divine right) and aligned himself with the common people of the region rather than the ruling elite. Sound familiar?

    Just to give a clear idea, compare his birth to Mose' birth in the bible and quran..

    Exodus 2, 1-10

    Quote
    And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi.

    And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months.

    And when she could not longer hide him, she took for him an ark of bulrushes, and daubed it with slime and with pitch, and put the child therein; and she laid it in the reeds by the river's brink.

    And his sister stood afar off, to wit what would be done to him.

    And the daughter of Pharaoh came down to wash herself at the river; and her maidens walked along by the river's side; and when she saw the ark among the reeds, she sent her maid to fetch it.

    And when she had opened it, she saw the child: and, behold, the babe wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews' children.

    Then said his sister to Pharaoh's daughter, Shall I go and call to thee a nurse of the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for thee?

    And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, Go. And the maid went and called the child's mother.

    And Pharaoh's daughter said unto her, Take this child away, and nurse it for me, and I will give thee thy wages. And the women took the child, and nursed it.

    And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water.


    Surat Al-Qaşaş 2-13

    Quote
    These are revelations of the Scripture that maketh plain.

    We narrate unto thee (somewhat) of the story of Moses and Pharaoh with truth, for folk who believe.

    Lo! Pharaoh exalted himself in the earth and made its people castes. A tribe among them he oppressed, killing their sons and sparing their women. Lo! he was of those who work corruption.

    And We desired to show favour unto those who were oppressed in the earth, and to make them examples and to make them the inheritors,

    And to establish them in the earth, and to show Pharaoh and Haman and their hosts that which they feared from them.

    And We inspired the mother of Moses, saying: Suckle him and, when thou fearest for him, then cast him into the river and fear not nor grieve. Lo! We shall bring him back unto thee and shall make him (one) of Our messengers.

    And the family of Pharaoh took him up, that he might become for them an enemy and a sorrow, Lo! Pharaoh and Haman and their hosts were ever sinning.

    And the wife of Pharaoh said: (He will be) a consolation for me and for thee. Kill him not. Peradventure he may be of use to us, or we may choose him for a son. And they perceived not.

    And the heart of the mother of Moses became void, and she would have betrayed him if We had not fortified her heart, that she might be of the believers.

    And she said unto his sister: Trace him. So she observed him from afar, and they perceived not.

    And We had before forbidden foster-mothers for him, so she said: Shall I show you a household who will rear him for you and take care of him?

    So We restored him to his mother that she might be comforted and not grieve, and that she might know that the promise of Allah is true. But most of them know not.


    Sargon -

    Quote
    Sargon, the mighty king, King of Agade, am I. My mother was a vestal, my father I knew not, while my father's brother dwelt in the mountains. In my city Azuripani, which is situated on the bank of the Euphrates, my mother, the vestal, bore me. In a hidden place she brought me forth. She laid me in a vessel made of reeds, closed my door with pitch, and dropped me down into the river, which did not drown me. The river carried me to Akki, the water carrier. Akki the water carrier lifted me up in the kindness of his heart, Akki the water carrier raised me as his own son, Akki the water carrier made of me his gardener. In my work as a gardener I was beloved by Ishtar, I became the king, and for forty-five years I held kingly sway.






    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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