Cloning

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- babooshka
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Cloning
OP - November 30, 2016, 02:19 PM

If you could bring back a loved one by cloning would you consider them the exact same person?

physically they'd be the same. they'd have the same memories and mannerisms. but would they be the same person you knew. would they have the essence of the original or would they be just a facsimile.
- abidali2018240
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Reply #1 - November 30, 2016, 08:03 PM

It's a difficult question.
They might be the same person because its a clone.
But they aren't the same person, right ? Because the first one died.
I have no idea if the clone would have the same feelings too.

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
- Cornflower
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Reply #2 - November 30, 2016, 08:43 PM

I don't know why, but this reminded me of when I tried to explain why I thought cloning was relevant topic up for discussion when reading up on Aristotle and his take on Metaphysics. I still resent my classmates for not realizing why they related...

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- yeezevee
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Reply #3 - December 01, 2016, 01:56 PM

well didn't allahdoll predict cloning in the book??

Quote
And most certainly I will lead them astray and excite in them vain desires, and bid them so that they shall slit the ears of the cattle, and most certainly I will bid them so that they shall alter Allah's creation; and whoever takes the Shaitan for a guardian rather than Allah he indeed shall suffer a manifest loss.[/b][/i] ..An-Nisaa Verse 119

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_101.html
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=9123.0;theme=30

well if we read Quran carefully we may find the physical/mental/physiological properties of clones ., Allah/god cloned itself in to multiple forms in the human brains ..

Fools read nonsense from ancient silly story books and couple some words from them to Modern Science and... and.... sell those silly faith books as manuals for future humanity

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- abidali2018240
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Reply #4 - December 01, 2016, 11:33 PM

how old is ALLAH ? yeezevee.
Can you please give us some insights on this thing called ALLAH!

I mean is it really a Arabian pagan GOD ?

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
- babooshka
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Reply #5 - December 02, 2016, 11:43 PM

Quote from: Cornflower on November 30, 2016, 08:43 PM
I don't know why, but this reminded me of when I tried to explain why I thought cloning was relevant topic up for discussion when reading up on Aristotle and his take on Metaphysics. I still resent my classmates for not realizing why they related...

I don't know anything about philosophy but wasn't Aristotle the one who believed the body and soul was one as opposed to plato who thought the soul was separate?

how do you think they relate cornflower, i'd be interested to know.

this is such a huge topic. i'm not even sure how or where to start it. but I am fascinated by it. I don't think chemicals and biology up make a human being. I just feel there has to be a soul. we're not just a bag of skin and bones.

I wonder if secretly somewhere in the world they've already cloned a human being. i'm sure some rogue scientist has. it must be so tempting.
- puzzlelover
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Reply #6 - December 03, 2016, 11:30 PM

Hi Babooshka,

It's certainly interesting. If you feel there has to be a soul, do other species have souls too ? Why just us ?

puzzlelover
- babooshka
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Reply #7 - December 12, 2016, 11:51 PM

hey puzzleover

i'll be honest I've no idea. all I have is second hand information I've picked up from books.

I like the idea of a soul. it makes sense to me. with regards to animals, well I have read that they have group souls. so there would be a group soul for buffalo's and a group soul for birds, a group soul for fish etc etc. obviously there's no solid proof. just ideas.
- abidali2018240
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Reply #8 - December 13, 2016, 01:28 AM

...

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
- yeezevee
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Reply #9 - December 13, 2016, 01:59 PM

Quote from: abidali2018240 on December 13, 2016, 01:28 AM
Well I personally had one near death experience.
I was lying on bed and my soul (me) was flying over the body, then after 2 or 3 minutes, unintentionally my soul went back into my body and I had a feeling of unification.
Then my soul was again trying to go outside, but because I was conscious, I manage to stop my soul escape my body by force.
Then I got complete control on my body.
It was fucking weird and I was scared for days.

what kind of medication were you on abidali??

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- abidali2018240
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Reply #10 - December 13, 2016, 03:21 PM

...

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
- bogart
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Reply #11 - December 14, 2016, 05:07 AM

Quote from: babooshka on November 30, 2016, 02:19 PM
If you could bring back a loved one by cloning would you consider them the exact same person?

No as we have no evidence of genetic memory on the scale of maintaining the "person".

Quote
physically they'd be the same. they'd have the same memories and mannerisms.

This is false as per the above. You have no evidence that they will be the same person with memories or mannerism

Quote
but would they be the same person you knew. would they have the essence of the original or would they be just a facsimile.

Again no.
- bogart
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Reply #12 - December 14, 2016, 05:11 AM

Quote from: babooshka on December 02, 2016, 11:43 PM
I don't know anything about philosophy but wasn't Aristotle the one who believed the body and soul was one as opposed to plato who thought the soul was separate?

There is no separation between the two in his view. It was Plato who thought this and wrote about it in Phaedo
- babooshka
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Reply #13 - December 16, 2016, 01:02 AM

Quote from: bogart on December 14, 2016, 05:07 AM
No as we have no evidence of genetic memory on the scale of maintaining the "person".

This is false as per the above. You have no evidence that they will be the same person with memories or mannerism

Again no.

sorry, i don't think i worded my original post correctly. what i'm saying is lets pretend we can create a clone of someone who has died. AND this clone has all the memories and mannerisms of the person who has died. (lets just assume we have the technology to do this.) THEN would you consider them the same exact person who has died?
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