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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Kalam Cosmological Argument

 (Read 12346 times)
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  • The Kalam Cosmological Argument
     Reply #30 - June 28, 2016, 05:42 PM

    I will give you the same reply that I gave to, 'Absurdist' on virtual particles: ''It would be quite ridiculous to believe that the Universe came out of nothing, wouldn't it? We do know that the Universe did come out of nothing, (absence of space-time and matter). Even though, there are hypotheses on how unstable fluctuations in a quantum state, (quantum information) could produce space-time and matter - these have not been proven yet.


    Neither has your God solution. Double standards. Also these hypothesis' provide some mechanic while your God provides nothing. All you can say is "God did it"

    Quote
    These hypotheses are based on phenomena that occurs in physics where fluctuations of energy contained in a vacuum produce virtual particles. However, prior to the creation of space-time, no space existed which would be needed to contain such a vacuum so the same natural processes could not be responsible for creating our physical Universe, (space-time). One would have to infer a timeless quantum flux of information, without energy or a vacuum would need to occur to begin space-time. What is the cause of this flux of information processing? If there are NO computer-like substances, due to a lack of matter, then it cannot be: physical and if there is no space, then there would be no vacuums containing quantum fluctuations from which an unstable pseudo-nothing could produce matter. Now, if there is no time, there are no naturalistic processes which could play out. Thus, we are left with an immaterial, space-less, timeless cause of the Universe. An immaterial cause that can also process information and cause other things to come out of that information on its own. Given these conditions, the only clear option we are left with is none other than a immaterial mind which spoke/thought the Universe into creation. Essentially, 'information creation'. No other logical option can account for these conditions.''


    You are making an assumption that an immaterial cause can fulfill all the problems you mention without providing a single mechanic as to how. You follow this up by asserting your assumption is true. Just another God did it answer.

    The god solution is based on ideas from nature such as causality, first cause then use special pleading to render itself immune to the implication of such thoughts.

    Quote
    I will now respond towards your claim on the, 'Multiverse theory'. This, again, is the same reply that I gave to, 'ibn Bilal': ''I begin by saying that the Multiverse theory is speculation.


    It is actually theoretical.

    Quote
    We don't have a theory in which that speculation is mathematically realized. ] Now, we exist in this observable Universe, so I would agree that there could be another. I have an issue though. Do you know how many Universes we would need to postulate in this, 'Multiverse' would be very large. How large? 10^120.

    Pick one:
    (a) God - which you all refuse to accept.
    (b) At least 10^120 Universes.


    False dilemma. Both could be wrong.

    Quote
    Wait! Before you pick, I want to make sure you understand how large this number is, (if you pathetically choose to pick option b): 10^120 is more then all atoms of our Universe, multiplied by a trillion, trillion and another trillion times. In other words, all atoms of the observable Universe, with another 40 zeros to it. Still thinking its quite plausible of a theory? Don't be ridiculous.''


    Big scary number therefore God.
  • The Kalam Cosmological Argument
     Reply #31 - June 29, 2016, 01:31 AM

    yes... yes..looooooooooooooong periods .,   trying to find cracks and wiggle out??   Cheesy

    The word, 'Ayyam' is used in the Qur'an, 7:54. This is the plural of, 'Ayyam': يوم (yaum).

    Noun
    يَوْم • ‎(yawm) m ‎(plural أَيَّام ‎(ʾayyām))

    day
    age, era, time, period, epoch.

    The translator Muhammad Asad writes in the footnotes of his translation of the Quran: ''The word yawm , commonly translated as “day” – but rendered above as “aeon” – is used in Arabic to denote any period, whether extremely long (“aeon”) or extremely  short (“moment”): its application to an earthly “day” of twenty-four hours is only one of its many connotations.'' = [Muhammad Asad (1980). The Message of the Qur’an: Translated and Explained. Gibraltar: Darul Andalus. p. 263].

    Moreover, Hans Wehr, H. (1976). A Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic p. 1110, Lane, E. W. (1863). An Arabic-English Lexicon  p. 3064, Arabic-English Dictionary of Quranic Usage page 1060, Al-Mawrid Arabic-English Dictionary page 1254, The Students Arabic-English Dictionary by Francis Joseph Steingass p.1242, Dictionary Of The Holy Quran, by Malik Ghulam Farid, M.A p.846, translate the word to mean: ''Day, Age, Era, Time, Period, Cycle, Event, Stage, Epoch''.

    Furthermore, we have evidence in the Qur'an that the word, 'يوم (yaum)' is used for variable lengths of time. For e.g. in the Qur'an 32:5, it is used to talk about, ''1000 years''. However, in the Qur'an 70:4, it is used to talk about, ''50,000 years''. This supports the meaning of, 'yaum' to mean: period, epoch, age etc. There are more evidences in the Hadith's, but I think this should be enough.

    P.S. For the Qur'anic verses: http://quran.com/32/5 http://quran.com/70/4

    Ahl as-sunnah wal-jamāʻah and following the way of the Salaf. - nope, not anymore.
  • The Kalam Cosmological Argument
     Reply #32 - June 29, 2016, 01:35 AM

    Neither has your God solution. Double standards. Also these hypothesis' provide some mechanic while your God provides nothing. All you can say is "God did it"

    False dilemma. Both could be wrong.

    Big scary number therefore God.

    In other words: We'll just have to wait and see who is correct. No, I'm not trying to scare you, (you don't even believe in a, 'God' to be scared of!).

    Ahl as-sunnah wal-jamāʻah and following the way of the Salaf. - nope, not anymore.
  • The Kalam Cosmological Argument
     Reply #33 - June 29, 2016, 05:48 AM

    Well, let's also wait to see if Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, or any religion is the correct one in the end!
  • The Kalam Cosmological Argument
     Reply #34 - June 29, 2016, 06:14 AM

    yes... yes..looooooooooooooong periods .,   trying to find cracks and wiggle out??   Cheesy

     
    The word, 'Ayyam' is used in the Qur'an, 7:54. This is the plural of, 'Ayyam': يوم (yaum).

    Noun
    يَوْم • ‎(yawm) m ‎(plural أَيَّام ‎(ʾayyām))

    day
    age, era, time, period, epoch.

    Quote
    The translator Muhammad Asad.........
    The Message of the Qur’an: Translated and Explained. Gibraltar: Darul Andalus. p. 263]....
    Moreover, Hans Wehr, H. (1976).........
    1110, Lane, E. W. (1863). ...........
    , Al-Mawrid Arabic-English Dictionary page 1254
     Arabic-English Dictionary by Francis Joseph Steingass p.1242
    , Dictionary Of The Holy Quran, by Malik Ghulam Farid, M.A p.846,
     translate the word to mean: ''Day, Age, Era, Time, Period, Cycle, Event, Stage, Epoch''.


    yes,,  yes A Muslim .,  we run in circles with  single Arabic word of Quran .... Ayyam.....  yawm.. yawn...........yawn...... yadi..yadi..,  from different translators of 20th century  and half of them western bums  that converted to Islam.,  

    That is because fools in 7th/8th century who wrote Quran didn't had proper words and numbers to say 4 billion..6 billion or  14 billion   in Arabic Language ., Neither our impotent omnipotent allah god could   reveal Quran in other language  that had those numbers dear A Muslim.

    nonsense,  go read that Chinese guy  Confucius  in different languages and different translations ., See how it gets translated  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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