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 Topic: Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...

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  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     OP - June 22, 2016, 03:11 AM
    NO. Not me Wink.

    There is a brother called Isma'eel which was a supposed Muslim for over 16 years. He used to make many videos defending Islam, do Friday Khutbah's, etc. He just recently came out as an ex-Muslim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR7_YQ53lfI

    The Muslim community are also responding back with refutations, which is great to see from my side. Here are a few: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eaitxo5haQI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uRfqorj65Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq8s1noaqsw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UULkjmVacJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvz5OV2Dls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN_g3ZrgArY More refutations here: https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/06/23/what-happened-to-the-captive-women-in-awtas-incident/ http://al-hidaayyah.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/answering-misconceptions-about-islam.html

    Have any of you heard of him before? I can't be the only one that has.
    Ahl as-sunnah wal-jamāʻah and following the way of the Salaf. - nope, not anymore.
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #1 - June 22, 2016, 05:07 AM
    I always felt as if the strongest inclination or teaching in Islam in relation to slavery is its best to free them,

    Compare the evidence for that teaching with the instances in which the prophet saw allowed rape and you'll find a magnificent disparity...
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #2 - June 22, 2016, 05:34 AM
    Exactly.
    Ahl as-sunnah wal-jamāʻah and following the way of the Salaf. - nope, not anymore.
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #3 - June 22, 2016, 10:16 AM
    I'm honestly baffled by your blind faith. In 20 years from now people like you will look back at the life you wasted on fanaticism and cry.
    Where do you draw the line in the sand? What does Muhammed have to do to become a liar and a barbarian in your eyes?

    He wasn't a cannibal. He had that going for him I guess.... I take it back. Best Man Ever!    Tongue
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #4 - June 22, 2016, 11:18 AM
    Quote from: CarnageScarlet on June 22, 2016, 10:16 AM
    I'm honestly baffled by your blind faith. In 20 years from now people like you will look back at the life you wasted on fanaticism and cry.
    Where do you draw the line in the sand? What does Muhammed have to do to become a liar and a barbarian in your eyes?

    He wasn't a cannibal. He had that going for him I guess.... I take it back. Best Man Ever!    Tongue


    Sister, you're words are interesting and more indicative of where you are than of our own states which you have hastily cast judgement upon...

    I hope im not a fanatic, as fanaticism is outlawed in islam,

    as for blind faith...
    We are all blind, that's why we need faith
    Assalamu Alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #5 - June 22, 2016, 11:20 AM
    lol
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #6 - June 22, 2016, 12:16 PM
    Quote from: ElRafa on June 22, 2016, 11:18 AM

    I hope im not a fanatic, as fanaticism is outlawed in islam,


    dear ElRafa there is nothing wrong in being fanatic  and fanaticism is NOT  outlawed in Islam, for that matter in any faith ., many faith heads are fanatic about following the rules and rituals of their religion/faith....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #7 - June 22, 2016, 12:31 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on June 22, 2016, 12:16 PM
    dear ElRafa there is nothing wrong in being fanatic  and fanaticism is NOT  outlawed in Islam, for that matter in any faith ., many faith heads are fanatic about following the rules and rituals of their religion/faith....


    Ghazali, the proof of islam noted that religious fanaticism was one of the biggest barriers to true ihsan, excellence in religion
    if he discouraged it its discouraged...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ4obaC7ncY

    a good documentary actually, worth watching all of it
    i like persian

    "dont turn into some kind of zealot, so that religion just becomes a way of feeling that youre better than everybody else"
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #8 - June 22, 2016, 12:43 PM
    Quote from: ElRafa on June 22, 2016, 12:31 PM
    Ghazali, .......
    i like persian
    .....

    interesting...

    http://majalla.org/books/2005/The-Alchemy-of-Happiness.pdf
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #9 - June 22, 2016, 12:47 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on June 22, 2016, 12:43 PM
    interesting...

    http://majalla.org/books/2005/The-Alchemy-of-Happiness.pdf


    the alchemy of happiness didnt make you too happy i take it  Wink
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #10 - June 22, 2016, 01:00 PM
    Quote from: ElRafa on June 22, 2016, 12:47 PM
    the alchemy of happiness didnt make you too happy i take it  Wink


     Cheesy  I operate on the principle of "NOTHING IS UNQUESTIONABLE" ., and however good and right it may be,  there is always a room to improve it ...

    https://islamictext.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/bidayat-al-hidayah-by-imam-al-ghazali.pdf
    http://www.ibe.unesco.org/sites/default/files/ghazalie.pdf
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #11 - June 22, 2016, 08:46 PM
    Quote from: ElRafa on June 22, 2016, 05:07 AM
    I always felt as if the strongest inclination or teaching in Islam in relation to slavery is its best to free them,

    Compare the evidence for that teaching with the instances in which the prophet saw allowed rape and you'll find a magnificent disparity...

    Can you even hear yourself??? Do you have ANY idea what you're saying?? ??!!!!

    RAPE SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER BE ALLOWED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, FOR ANY REASON, NO MATER WHAT!!!

    I know two women who have been raped. It leaves the victim emotionally and psychologically BROKEN. In many cases, for the rest of their life. You really need to think very hard about what it is you believe, ElRafa, and even harder about what you say.
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #12 - June 22, 2016, 08:51 PM
    Quote from: jrg on June 22, 2016, 08:46 PM
    Can you even hear yourself??? Do you have ANY idea what you're saying?? ??!!!!

    RAPE SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER BE ALLOWED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, FOR ANY REASON, NO MATER WHAT!!!

    I know two women who have been raped. It leaves the victim emotionally and psychologically BROKEN. In many cases, for the rest of their life. You really need to think very hard about what it is you believe, ElRafa, and even harder about what you say.


    The thing is,
    i believe there is no example of when he allowed it. that was my point
    saluti,
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #13 - June 22, 2016, 10:02 PM
    If that's what you believe then use a better example next time. That word is bounded about so much in the media and "entertainment" industries that it's become almost trivialised.

    It's not only you, ElRafa. You just happen to be the one that got my attention, with the seemingly blasé phrasing of your post.
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #14 - June 23, 2016, 01:56 AM
    Quote from: jrg on June 22, 2016, 10:02 PM
    If that's what you believe then use a better example next time. That word is bounded about so much in the media and "entertainment" industries that it's become almost trivialised.

    It's not only you, ElRafa. You just happen to be the one that got my attention, with the seemingly blasé phrasing of your post.


    absolutely i agree with you,
    I live in a western country and 1/5 women here are victims of sexual assault

    thats one of the lowest rates in the world, 1 in 5!
    and people have the audacity to blame it on the dress of the woman which is an appallingly apparent condoning of a heinous violation of human dignity, a fundamental tenet of my religion,
    something of course which you may disagree with...

    i'm happy to publicly stand up against this, my teachers are happy to stand up publicly against this and my peers are happy to stand up against these crimes, which restrict 1/2 the worlds population from achieving their potential, thus i believe restricting humanity from achieving its potential,
    if you seek further clarification on my position in regards to sexual violence against women, im happy to post a speech i gave recently, if i still have it,
    also a copy of last weeks khutba which incidentally addressed the same issue
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #15 - June 23, 2016, 02:02 AM
    So, tell me honesty, is there nothing in the seerah of Al-Mustafaa, alayhi as-salatu was-salaam, that bothers you concerning his relationships with women? Not his marriage to Aisha, not his capture and bedding of Safiyyah, not his acceptance of Maria as a slave,  not his insistence that the young girl from the tribe of Jawn grant herself to him? Does none of it bother you, or do you deny it and block it out, or what?
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #16 - June 23, 2016, 02:03 AM
    Quote from: jrg on June 22, 2016, 10:02 PM
    If that's what you believe then use a better example next time. That word is bounded about so much in the media and "entertainment" industries that it's become almost trivialised.

    It's not only you, ElRafa. You just happen to be the one that got my attention, with the seemingly blasé phrasing of your post.


    and since i already brought up ghazali, here's his comment on treatment of women made 1000 years ago...

    Islam is a religion of justice and mercy, and whoever thinks it commands the enslavement of one's wife and crushing her dignity, then he is fabricating lies in the name of God and His messenger.
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #17 - June 23, 2016, 02:05 AM
    Quote from: ibn Bilal on June 23, 2016, 02:02 AM
    So, tell me honesty, is there nothing in the seerah of Al-Mustafaa, alayhi as-salatu was-salaam, that bothers you concerning his relationships with women? Not his marriage to Aisha, not his capture and bedding of Safiyyah, not his acceptance of Maria as a slave,  not his insistence that the young girl from the tribe of Jawn grant herself to him? Does none of it bother you, or do you deny it and block it out, or what?


    bother me how? in light of modern morality and western liberal ethics, i can understand how one might be bothered by marriage to Aisha,
    but i don't think its fair to apply your moral standard to situations taking place in bygone society
    Nowdays, go ask some local shuyookh if they think its okay if you marry a 9 year old, take a slave girl or 2 and the young girl from the tribe of jawn to himself, show me this, i think you've been given the edited version of the story...
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #18 - June 23, 2016, 02:08 AM
    So then you do believe that Muhammad is not a moral standard for our times?
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #19 - June 23, 2016, 02:11 AM
    As for the narration regarding the girl from the tribe of Jawn, you can look it up yourself. She was readied for him and Muhammad asked her to grant herself to him. As he approached her, she sought refuge in Allah from him, so he retreated from her and ordered that she be clothed and taken away.
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #20 - June 23, 2016, 02:15 AM
    Quote from: ibn Bilal on June 23, 2016, 02:08 AM
    So then you do believe that Muhammad is not a moral standard for our times?


    I believe he's a great example to follow and emulate, if you take his fundamental teachings on a macro level,
    and if you're able to differentiate between 7th century arabian ethics and islamic ethics,

    Islamic ethics include his teachings which we believe derive from his divinely granted wisdom, not from the urf of the quraysh

    Happy are those who find fault with themselves instead of finding fault with others.

    Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.

    A good deed done to an animal is as meritorious as a good deed done to a human being, while an act of cruelty to an animal is a bad as an act of cruelty to a human being.

    It is better to sit alone than in company with the bad, and it is better still to sit with the good than alone. It is better to speak to a seeker of knowledge than to remain silent, but silence is better than idle words.
    The greatest of wealth is the richness of the soul.

    Whoever wishes to be delivered from the Fire and enter the Garden should die with faith in God and the Last Day and should treat the people as he wishes to be treated by them.

    Contemplation for an hour is better than formal worship for sixty years.

    Ive compiled a list of nearly 500 narrations with examples of such excellent morality, do you believe you could do likewise for your case against him?
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #21 - June 23, 2016, 02:22 AM
    I think he might have been a reasonable example to follow in the ancient world. He elevated his society above what it might have been otherwise.

    But you are right, our times have drastically changed since. What worked in 7th century Arabia simply does not work now, and Islam is left grossly unprepared for dealing with life in the modern world.

  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #22 - June 23, 2016, 02:23 AM
    Quote from: ibn Bilal on June 23, 2016, 02:08 AM
    So then you do believe that Muhammad is not a moral standard for our times?


    When we call Rasulallah saw a perfect example,
    do you also then see us forsaking our homes in the city, pulling up and moving out into the desert where we then roam around by camel? Living in houses made out of mudbrick or straw, forsaking our cars, paper money, beds??
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #23 - June 23, 2016, 02:24 AM
    Quote from: ibn Bilal on June 23, 2016, 02:22 AM
    But you are right, our times have drastically changed since. What worked in 7th century Arabia simply does not work now, and Islam is left grossly unprepared for dealing with life in the modern world.


    You know many of the worlds best and most intelligent Islamic minds of the last century have concurred with that
    The mujadid of the 20th century Said Nursi adopted that as his main thesis of sorts
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #24 - June 23, 2016, 02:26 AM
    Quote from: ElRafa on June 23, 2016, 02:15 AM
    .......................

    Islamic ethics include his teachings which we believe derive from his divinely granted wisdom, ................


    Ive compiled a list of nearly 500 narrations with examples of such excellent morality, do you believe you could do likewise for your case against him?


    well i question divine  business  ElRafa  but give me the link of  that list of nearly 500 narrations with examples of such excellent morality,
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #25 - June 23, 2016, 02:28 AM
    Remember, you guys are expecting a Maseeh.  Wink
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #26 - June 23, 2016, 04:48 AM
    For you, ibn Bilal:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVehdVlLdBI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEwmfIgSQQU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4yyx1qDWhQ
    Ahl as-sunnah wal-jamāʻah and following the way of the Salaf. - nope, not anymore.
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #27 - June 23, 2016, 06:26 AM
    Quote from: A Muslim on June 23, 2016, 04:48 AM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4yyx1qDWhQ


    Isn't it funny, that pedophiles today use the very same argument?


    "The child wants to do it and really likes it!"
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #28 - June 23, 2016, 10:06 AM
    Paedophiles do not wait 3 years to consummate the marriage.
    Ahl as-sunnah wal-jamāʻah and following the way of the Salaf. - nope, not anymore.
  • Looks like you've supposedly gained another member...
     Reply #29 - June 23, 2016, 10:17 AM
    They rarely marry their victim, that is true.

    Does that make it better when molesting a child under 10 years of age?
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