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Theme Changer

 Topic: Quranic studies

 (Read 6209 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Quranic studies
     OP - March 05, 2016, 05:52 PM

    Hi,

    I found this video about Quranic studies in an Ex-Muslim Facebook group.

    However, I don't know the guy, who gives this speech. Could be some kind of Christian preacher, blaming Islam and praising Christianity. Maybe some of you know him?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3VghnsXI7I&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

    I think for some of you it is nothing new.


    Regarding this video I actually have a question: In 12:10 he says that first all the mosque face Petra. However, I wonder if Islam was invented by Abdel Marek as he claims, why would there be mosques around facing Petra?
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #1 - March 05, 2016, 06:53 PM

    His name is Jay Smith. He is a Christian preacher.

    That's not to discount his entire argument though.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #2 - March 05, 2016, 07:02 PM

    i imagine Petra is significant because of the Nabateans. I could be wrong though.

    Skeptick Sal
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #3 - March 05, 2016, 07:38 PM

    You are correct. The ancient city carved in to the mountains.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #4 - March 06, 2016, 12:09 AM

    Quote
    i imagine Petra is significant because of the Nabateans. I could be wrong though.

    You are correct. The ancient city carved in to the mountains.



    That is another reason I say   "Historicity of Quran/hadith Muhammad.. The Prophet of Islam " is as flimsy as   " historicity of  Jesus Christ that is described in testament "   Question is who put together Quran ?  And how many times did  it get revised before it became the book that we see today?

    I bet itwas NOT Arab folks of that time., either it was Christian guys., or it was Jewish guys or it could be Roman guys who lived Around Arabian peninsula .. And I am sure the book got jumbled up  on the way in its so-called sequence of revelations.   Off course., once rightly guided Caliphs came in to the scene .. they took the ball and ran in to the goal post... And I am sure on the way  it got modified again....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #5 - March 06, 2016, 09:13 AM

    The Quran contains

    Many Gods
    Many legends
    Many Muhammad's
    By many hands
    Over many decades

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #6 - March 06, 2016, 10:04 AM

    Hmm.,  Jedi's god got a revelation but it needs a correction..
    The Quran contains

    Many Gods
    Many legends
    Many Muhammad's
    By many hands
    Over many decades

    It has one God with an Arabic word  "Allah" which was already present in Arab language before the birth of Islam.. before the birth of Muhammads and before the birth of  their grand fathers   ......great grand fathers.....

    That is what yeezevee's messenger  jibril .xxxxx   says  and if the readers want to know who my Jibril is  then read this no-game-no-life-Jibril  and Jibril looks like this


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #7 - March 06, 2016, 10:08 AM

    But what about Uzza and Manat and the many other Gods that the 'Allah' would gobble up and claim as His own?? There are many Gods in the Quran from lots of different legends but they are duped as one being.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #8 - March 06, 2016, 10:21 AM

    But what about Uzza and Manat and the many other Gods that the 'Allah' would gobble up and claim as His own?? There are many Gods in the Quran from lots of different legends but they are duped as one being.

     It is true many Gods/god names  are mentioned in Quran ., Allah., allat was another super god of that culture that was there with pagans of  Arabian Peninsula and true Quran  does have  lots of different legends  .....ooold stories in a new bottle....old wine in a new bottle......but they are NOT gods of Quran, they were gods before Quran,

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #9 - March 06, 2016, 11:09 AM

    I think it's kind of amazing that a book with so many errors managed to pull the wool over so many people's eyes.  When I was Muslim I knew of a lot of these errors were there but like most blinded Muslims I thought as  it's written by God, it doesn't have to make total sense to us mere humans!  Cheesy

    Now that I've started looking at it as a man made book, it's easier to understand why there's so many errors.

    Skeptick Sal
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #10 - March 06, 2016, 12:02 PM

    Quote
    But what about Uzza and Manat and the many other Gods that the 'Allah' would gobble up and claim as His own?? There are many Gods in the Quran from lots of different legends but they are duped as one being.

    It is true many Gods/god names  are mentioned in Quran ., Allah., allat was another super god of that culture that was there with pagans of  Arabian Peninsula and true Quran  does have  lots of different legends  .....ooold stories in a new bottle....old wine in a new bottle......but they are NOT gods of Quran, they were gods before Quran,


    Hmm.. that is an interesting point of Jedi I questioned.. Now by thinking on the story of  Muhammad we have in early Islam such as

    *******************************************************************************************
    Prophet Muhammad (...s.a.w.a. ..RA..DA..BA..MA..)was born  on Friday, the 17th Rabi'-ul-Awwal, 1st year of 'Amul-Fil  corresponding to 570 C.E to  Abdullah and Amina  in a Arabian city of Mecca .,  and his father  died a few months before  his birth.. he was brought up in his grand father's  Abdul-Muttalib houe.,   and  and his mother Amina died when he was 6 year old also his grand father died . Now this Orphan boy Muhammad was brought by  his paternal uncle Abu Talib...

    And boy Muhammad becomes young guys with high on hormones at  a place known as 'Ukaz,  where an annual fair used to be held during the month of Dhul-Qa'dah during which war and bloodshed were forbidden but the festival was filled with   pleasure, dancing girls, gaming tables, drunken orgies  and , poetic contests . These  frequently ended  in brawls and bloodshed. At one of the fairs, war broke out between the Quraish and the Banu Kinanah on one side and the Qais 'Aylan on the other side

    Apparently that brawl became clan  war continued for a number of years   loss of life and varying fortunes. The lewd scenes, drunken affrays and the horrors of the war must have created a deep impression on  Muhammad's sensitive mind.. yadii...yaday..yada.. yada
    **********************************************************************************


    But it appears that 23 year old young Muhammad missed sleeping with girls..  got a  Voluptuous 45 year old rich wife Khadija ...  well that is another story...

    So thinking about all that story of early boy Muhammad to the death of Prophet of Islam and all the Muhammads of Ibn Clan of that time.,  I am going to rephrase my post to Jedi and in fact may be changing  my views on who wrote Quran..

    It must be some converted Ibn Jewish clan cartoon characters ..

    How many of you know about Jewish Tribes of Arabia of that time??

    Juicy Juice are everywhere ...  but..but Real Jews are very few  and very Rare..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #11 - March 06, 2016, 12:23 PM

    His name is Jay Smith. He is a Christian preacher.

    That's not to discount his entire argument though.


    I knew it  Cheesy
    Would be great if he showed the same amount of mistrust to his own religion, too. Haven't the ancient romans done the same thing before as the arabs? Introduced Christianity as there one state religion to have control over the people. I read that many myths about Jesus came from that time.


    However, back to my first question: I wonder, how come that there were mosques around if Islam was invented by Abdel Marek. To whom did they pray before?
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #12 - March 06, 2016, 12:27 PM

    Quote
    His name is Jay Smith. He is a Christian preacher.

    That's not to discount his entire argument though.

     
    I knew it Cheesy  


    you knew it??  you know nothing about that guy "Jay Smith"  ElToro...

    Did you know he was born in India and lived in that country all the way  until he was 13 year old or so ?

    ....However, back to my first question: I wonder, how come that there were mosques around if Islam was invented by Abdel Marek. To whom did they pray before?

    Hmm ElToro  completely forgot about Origins of Islam...

     who was  Abdel Marek?  I guess there is a mistake there ., it must be  Umayyad caliph ʿAbd al-Malik....  

    Any ways  many Islamic preachers  tell you/preach you that ISLAM DID NOT START WITH Prophet of Islam Muhammad   but it started with Allah.. Adam and Eve dear ElToro  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #13 - March 06, 2016, 12:32 PM

    Oh yeezeveezevevee, with "I knew it" I meant I was sure that he was some kind of Christian preacher in America, not his lifetime story.
    I don't know him and I don't care. 
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #14 - March 06, 2016, 12:35 PM

    Oh yeezeveezevevee, ...............

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #15 - March 06, 2016, 12:58 PM

    Ok, you edited it afterwards, this wasn't there before:


    Hmm ElToro  completely forgot about Origins of Islam...
     who was  Abdel Marek?  I guess there is a mistake there ., it must be  Umayyad caliph ʿAbd al-Malik....

    stop attacking me! That's now the fourth or fifth time you attack me! I have done nothing bad to you and I want to take discussions without being attacked. If you want to correct me do it in a normal way.
     
    But thanks, I noticed it. Umayyad caliph "Abd al-Malik". Thank you!


    Any ways  many Islamic preachers  tell you/preach you that ISLAM DID NOT START WITH Prophet of Islam Muhammad   but it started with Allah.. Adam and Eve dear ElToro  


    [Ironie] You don't say? Well, I didn't know that! Will Islam preachers really tell me this? It all started with Allah... Adam and Eve, I always thought it started with Zeus. Wow, thanks for enlightening me. [/Ironie]

    However, that's not the point dear yeezevee! I'm not talking about what Islam preachers say. They also say that the Quran is complete and uncorrupted. The point is what Jay Smith says. He claims that all started "Abd al-Malik" in the video and makes his points.

    Look, yeezevee I really don't want to argue with you. But stop making fun about me, and talking to me in a third person.
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #16 - March 06, 2016, 01:17 PM

    Ok, you edited it afterwards, this wasn't there before:
    .....................
    stop attacking me! That's now the fourth or fifth time you attack me!...............
    Look, yeezevee I really don't want to argue with you. But stop making fun about me, and talking to me in a third person.

    No..no....noooo... ElToro  .. Noooooooooo..

    I was NOT making fun of you,
    I was NOT attacking you,  
    I was NOT arguing with you..
    I was just posting a response ElToro

    If that post came that way and if you feel that  I attacked you or I made fun of you  ., then I apologize for that .. But I tell you the fact here
    Quote

    I was laughing at that word  "Oh yeezeveezevevee".,

    I didn't write   but I thought  "  I am glad ElToro didn't say "Oh yeezeveezevevee.....see...deee...Pee.."  

    When I thought about that .. I was laughing and got to go and pee.. That is all to those  emoticon and why all  those smiling emoticons  are there..

    again No..No..  ElToro .. I was not making fun of you..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #17 - March 06, 2016, 01:33 PM

    Thanks yeezevee,

    but I was not referring to this:
    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    You had all right to laugh at that because I made fun of your name, because I was angry and I apologize for it. Sorry!

    I was referring to this:

    you knew it??  you know nothing about that guy "Jay Smith"  ElToro...


    The fact that I didn't know Jay Smith was already written in the beginning:
    However, I don't know the guy, who gives this speech.


    My "I knew it" was referring to that I was sure that he was a Christian preacher.

    Then you wrote this:
    Hmm ElToro  completely forgot about Origins of Islam...

    Any ways  many Islamic preachers  tell you/preach you that ISLAM DID NOT START WITH Prophet of Islam Muhammad   but it started with Allah.. Adam and Eve dear ElToro  

    This was upsetting, as if I wouldn't know about Allah, Adam and Eve. Things what Islamic preachers teach was not part of the topic. And my questions was not referring to traditional Islamic teaching.

    Anyways, I accept your apology and hope we have peace from now on  Smiley

  • Quranic studies
     Reply #18 - March 06, 2016, 01:33 PM

    -
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #19 - March 06, 2016, 01:51 PM

    .

    Anyways, I accept your apology and hope we have peace from now on  Smiley


    No...No   No peace .. war..war....    you are fighting a warrior ElToro ..

    But going back to the topic you do have an extremely important question., I just watched that Jay Smith video  and your question
    Hi,

    I found this video about Quranic studies in an Ex-Muslim Facebook group.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3VghnsXI7I

    I think for some of you it is nothing new.


    Regarding this video I actually have a question: In 12:10 he says that first all the mosque face Petra. However, I wonder if Islam was invented by Abdul Malek as he claims, why would there be mosques around facing Petra?

      
    your question is very important and very few Islamic historians explored that question ., So indeed it is worth looking in to it ., In fact I wanted add this information in to  that  CEMB resource center on Chronological History of  Islam   and I will...

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #20 - March 06, 2016, 02:21 PM

    Thanks yeezevee  Smiley
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #21 - March 06, 2016, 03:18 PM

    Hi,

    I found this video about Quranic studies in an Ex-Muslim Facebook group.

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3VghnsXI7I

    Regarding this video I actually have a question: In 12:10 he says that first all the mosque face Petra. However, I wonder if Islam was invented by Abdel Marek as he claims, why would there be mosques around facing Petra?

    So at 11-20mts  of that tube Mr. Jay Smith mentions  his debate with Adnan Rashid  and let us put that here..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qykliXFySWg

    well that looks like fish market and   sounds of fish market  but in that at the end of tube  Mr. Smith mentions about Coins of Abdul Malik era which apparently has picture of Muhammad ..  please watch that video of ElToro post from 11mts  or so to that end of that tube..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #22 - March 06, 2016, 08:15 PM

    The conclusion is flawed as it only undermines tradition.
  • Quranic studies
     Reply #23 - March 12, 2016, 07:52 PM

    It is true many Gods/god names  are mentioned in Quran ., Allah., allat was another super god of that culture that was there with pagans of  Arabian Peninsula and true Quran  does have  lots of different legends  .....ooold stories in a new bottle....old wine in a new bottle......but they are NOT gods of Quran, they were gods before Quran,


    I can not help but think that there were many revisions of the Qur'an and that the authors worshiped different Gods or versions of the gods and entered a characteristic here and an attribute there and that's why you have a Super-Allah-God with Multiple personality Disorder.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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