Is immigration and econimic migration the only travel things that have criteria and conditions attached to them? NO. Please stop talking as if permanent settlement is the only thing that borders prevents.
I have family in Morocco who could never ever come to see me for a 2 week holiday over here because they can't meet the conditions set for it, I also cannot meet the conditions, I do not have a large sum of money in my bank out, or a job in which I make over a certain amount of money per year. As a visiting lecturer I am on a zero hours contract, so I do not have a yearly wage to speak of.
Because of racist assumptions that all people from Morocco will simply step off a plane in the UK, and instantly go into hiding and never go home again, criteria have been set up to ensure that only wealthy Moroccans can come to visit WEALTHY Moroccans within the UK.
That is the condition they set because they don't want immigrants family to get in from that route. Apparently many immigrants came from "family visit". Currently there are many, many immigratns looking to immigrate to Europe. Is it racist assumptions when it really happens?
Do you have a better solution? Or just... screw the law?
This is the same for a lot of 3rd world countries.
When you speak about this whole 'criteria' and its 'fairness' you are imagining that everybody intends to immigrate, and not that foreign people might also just want a holiday in the UK.
How is a holiday a right though...?
I just.... My friend was denied for study visa to US, even though he really wanted to go... I was denied Australian visa for visiting... I mean, if I can't visit a country then I would just assume the qualifications are higher than what I could give, so I don't go there. I don't get it. Many people can't afford to have holiday in South Korea, I couldn't either, I don't see that as a right. I have many relatives everywhere, big family and all that. Can't afford to visit them, can't get visa, I'm fine with that :\
Seriously?
That's what I am picking up on this thread, that when we think of travel restrictions and closed borders, we are only 'fairly' avoiding all the non-natives from coming here, stealing space, jobs, money, and fears of overcrowding.
You also only qualified your original statement of 'I don't want criminals', to include other things, once I pointed out that criminal behaviour wasn't all that was being used.
Honestly, I don't get it. Fears of overcrowding and unemployment is legit. When I was in South Korea, I also had trouble getting employed because of the Korean laws that state minimum Korean worker a company had to have before employing foreign workers. I don't see that as xenophobia, I see that as "Korean government wants to take care of unemployed Korean citizens". I am not their responsibility. I, or my parents didn't help shape their country. I should have less input because I have less knowledge of how their country works, and how they were able to succeed. There is very large possibility that my input would be damaging, and culturally insensitive.
Many, many asian cities are so overcrowded that I understand some western countries are afraid of becoming like that. I am used to tiny apartments, but if some other culture would rather have bigger ones then it's their rights. Streets in Hongkong are so full of people you can't walk fast without bumping into someone. I would scream if I had to live like that forever. I thought I know life in overcrowded cities, but man.
Migration? save our country from their values, beliefs and....levels of education?
How is other country responsible for other countries' citizens level of education?
Or unemployment, for that matter.
I don't get it. My government (Ind) spectacularly fails on governing. It's unfortunate, but I don't see how other countries need to bear the burden of our faults?
'lock the gates, they are all criminals looking to overcrowd our island'
That's a projection there. Nobody suggests to lock the gates. Doesn't mean integration issues don't exist.
To build on what Berbs is saying, what I'm picking up on in this thread is a lot of privilege and people being unaware of the realities of immigration laws, because they're so blind to real life experiences of people who fall through the gaps, never mind that immigration laws have been getting tougher and tougher. What I'm also picking up on is people being convinced their culture is superior and therefore they want to protect it. Fuck this xenophobic bullshit. And fuck this "dialogue". No one is obligated to engage in any dialogue, nor is anyone obligated to respect anyone else's views. Given we're on an ex-Muslim forum, I assume we're pretty aware of that.
PS: There's a reason I only responded to Berbs in this thread.
It's kind of funny. There is no need for dialogue, and most people do not want open border anyway. The further you go, the more conservative people are. Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indonesian, Singaporean, Malaysian, are all conservative and there's no way they'd ever want open border. Thus your imagination remains a fantasy. People who don't agree with you, have bullshit views. Fuck open dialogue.... Nobody is obligated to respect anyone's views, including yours and mine.
There are people who fall through the gaps on any system. The solution? Scrap the rules! Scrap the laws - no need for laws! Yes, great solution.
Yes, immigration laws have gotten tougher and tougher. Though I do consider staying in somebody else's country is a privilege, not a right.
Also, the laws get tougher not only on western nations, it's also on poorer countries. I know Indonesian laws already put ~almost!~ the maximum restriction they can to bar foreigners and make it uncomfortable for them to live.
Their culture is superior? Whose culture? I mean it's quite undeniable that Indonesian culture has worse work ethic than Korean one. You don't want to admit that? When I went to Korea, it's quite easy to see why their country can produce something great.
I hate it when people say all culture are equal. Well if that was the case then I didn't need to immigrate in the first place.
Such xenophobic bullshit!
Support of open borders = poor country follows = communism?
I'm done.
Maryam Namazie is a communist though.
What I'm picking up from this thread is, people want quick-fix of what is considered a problem, and assume that mass immigration will always be net-positive. Integration issues don't exist, it's all in education, and the host country will have some magical solution for all the immigrants. UK doesn't have integration issues. With education, the immigrants will magically support liberalism, not be racist against other races, immigrants also will all be law-abiding citizens let's forget Hizbut Tahrir, everybody will support feminism and gay rights, everyone will magically forget their (bigoted) cultural practices back home, everything will be under control.
The high stake of such loss is that now you will ruin the host country, and nothing really changes. +1 for more poor country.
Topic: A Conversation with Maryam Namazie and Sam Harris