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 Topic: New to atheism . Needs help

 (Read 1749 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • New to atheism . Needs help
     OP - March 01, 2016, 02:19 PM

    So guys i left islam just few weeks back and i'm going thru serious depression , i was never a devout muslim, i never prayed or fasted punctually, havent even laid my hands on quran for like years , i knew i was a doing a hell lot of sins , but i blindly believed in all these shit .i always had fear about death,hell, the judgementment day and all that crap .so as i told , i left islam few weeks back, it wasnt because of these extremists, women opression n stuff like that , but i use the weapon of crirical thinking :/ . I mean quranic stories; its all bullshit , i know but guys Sometimes i feel like maybe i am interpreting the quranic verses in a wrong manner , i dont believe in any of scientific miracle bullshit but sometimes i think why would muhammed even make a new religion copying stories from the  religions which were meantime prevailing in Arabia .
    Look at this verse
    "" So when they come to you, they argue with you: the disbelievers say, "These are nothing but ancient fables," and tell others not to listen [to the Qur'an] ... But they ruin no one but themselves ... If you could only see, when they are made to stand before the Fire, how they will say, "If only we could be sent back, we would not reject the revelation of our Lord, but be among the believers." (6: 25-27)''
    Why would he even make up revelations like that ? Sometimes i feel like this is what happeing to me .

    and i read this article . huffpost.com/us/entry/5640853?ir=India

    Please help me
    P.s : i know my english sucks, Sorry .
  • New to atheism . Needs help
     Reply #1 - March 01, 2016, 07:53 PM

    Quote
    Sometimes i feel like maybe i am interpreting the quranic verses in a wrong manner


    yeah maybe you are. Maybe devout Muslims are. Maybe the scholars are. Plenty of them came up with plenty of interpretations that Muslims today find embarrassing.  For example, lots of them rejected the known science from many years earlier, in favour of their interpetation of the quran, which they believed described a flat earth. Did even the greatest scholars in history interpret the verses incorrectly? Maybe. If so, then why blame yourself for failing to do what the greatest and most devout Muslims couldn't do either?

    Can Allah really blame you for using "the weapon of critical thinking"? Didn't he give you this weapon to use? Surely at the very least you are supposed to use it when it comes to the other (fake) religions. How else are you supposed to determine that they are fake?

    If Allah really is going to blame you for using the mind that he gave you, then you are pretty much screwed either way. No conclusion you could arrive at would be safer than any other. You might as pick a belief at random, and hope it aligns with whatever arbitrary position Allah has for no reason at all, decided is 'the truth'.

    Does a god who punishes merely an incorrect belief deserve worship anyway?

    Alternatively, the quran really does assume a flat earth, and you really are interpreting it correctly.
  • New to atheism . Needs help
     Reply #2 - March 02, 2016, 01:41 AM

    Quote
    why would muhammed even make a new religion copying stories from the  religions which were meantime prevailing in Arabia .


    But why wouldn't he?

    You are not Muhammad, you will never understand 100% about him. We're not even sure just how accurate the Muhammad legend is. Some of them read exactly like fairy tale, some of them are fabricated from gossips (hadiths). A large part of it is untrustworthy. If we only follow historical proofs, none of the past prophets(Musa, etc) ever lived. They were legends, not real.

    Religions have existed for as long as humanity has, and there were always prophets/shamans/elders who tell you these things. Mo wasn't the first and wasn't the last. There were religious leaders before and after him. He's not really unique.

    Quote
    " So when they come to you, they argue with you: the disbelievers say, "These are nothing but ancient fables," and tell others not to listen [to the Qur'an] ... But they ruin no one but themselves ... If you could only see, when they are made to stand before the Fire, how they will say, "If only we could be sent back, we would not reject the revelation of our Lord, but be among the believers."


    That's... very common. Christians do it. Other religions do it. Cults do it. Talk to ex- Jehovah Witness, they will tell you the same. Fictional threat on top of fictional arguments. Threatening disbelievers of after life punishments. Don't you see? They have no logical proof of anything, they need to rely on something that exist after your death. Which you will never know. Meanwhile, obey.

    A lot of ancient religions/beliefs deal with life using superstition, and it doesn't mean that it's correct. Just for an example, the horror stories they tell children about going out at night (a legend in my country). A monster will kidnap you and eat you. Is this true? What do you think? Anybody can literally make up anything. It could be for good thing, or bad thing. Threatening people with fictional punishments is pretty common everywhere. Doesn't mean that it's true.
  • New to atheism . Needs help
     Reply #3 - March 02, 2016, 06:17 AM

    Al the other prophets before muhammed were legendery ?? O_o ? Tbh i didnt know that . Can you please share some articles regarding this topic

    Ty Smiley
  • New to atheism . Needs help
     Reply #4 - March 02, 2016, 12:10 PM

    Why would he even make up revelations like that ?


    The first question that needs to be asked is "is a God who punishes people for being born Muslim worth worshiping, even if he did exist?"

    An argument often used is that if you were born in India you would likely be Hindu; if you were born in America you would likely be a Christian; if you were born in Iran you would be a Muslim; if you were born in Ancient Greece you would believe in Zeus and Poseidon. We inherit religion from our parents and Islam claims to be the "last religion" meaning it is the final word of God. God, of course, is all powerful and omnipotent. So we must then infer, according to Muhammed's words that you quoted, that God is putting MOST people onto the earth in non-Muslim communities in the knowledge that they will "stand before the fire". That doesn't make any sense to even the most irrational minds. Imagine telling your children that they will be punished if they eat apples but then locking them in a room for two weeks with only apples to eat. It is madness

    And why would Muhammed make this up? Well, religions seek power and control and have been important in preserving a sense of identity and a sense of community throughout history. The idea of belonging to a nation and saying "I am Iranian" for example is a relatively new concept which was not present in the 7th and 8th centuries and religion was critical in creating any sense of society with order.

    But most importantly, humans are innately predisposed to believe and are innately fearful of no knowing. To not know is a difficult concept for most people to grasp and easy answers are much more palatable. Science works o the boundary of what is known and what is unknown. Islam is a complete description leaving no room for investigation, critical inquiry and scientific discovery through experimental approach. As religion provides a complete picture of the "universe" we live in, people must not question this or the whole thing breaks down. Look at the behaviour of Catholics throughout time, a fine example being the imprisonment of Galileo who observed that the moon was not perfectly spherical as the bible suggested and that Jupiter had moons, inferring the imperfection of the "universe" which went against Aristotelian biblical teachings.

    DEPRESSION

    Religion says do not question, do not look and do not investigate. Science says, what is actually there rather than relying on an ancient text written by people who were simply scared of the unknown and were trying to describe the world around them.

    But there is no reason to feel depressed at departing from your religion. The truth is far more incredible and amazing that any religion has been able to imagine. We now understand how our Universe developed from a fraction of a second after its inception 13.82 + or - 0.05 billion years ago. Our Universe began to expand but initially was being slowed down in its expansion by the force of dark energy (which we are yet to fully understand). For a reason, yet to be understood, dark energy began to increase the expansion of the Universe which, for some reason, is actually accelerating in its expansion. This is lucky as the physics demonstrates that it is not a given that this process should take place and we are lucky that there is a Universe at all!

    Furthermore, the beginning of the Universe would only need to have happened slightly differently to produce a Universe incapable of creating the vital ingredients required for life and the elements that make up our world. Lucky!

    Adding to that, the odds of our planet Earth being in its exact position in correlation with the sun and the rest of the solar system  is ludicrously fortunate. The Moon was essentially a large asteroid that struck our planet, tilting it onto the optimal axis that we now sit versus the Sun. Without this intervention, Earth would be uninhabitable. There are also many variables that have contributed to the fact that life can exist (Jupiter's historical movements, The Sun's strength, the speed and distance or our orbit etc) Basically, this is all highly, highly unlikely and we are stupidly fortunate to be here.

    But what about LIFE itself? As far as we know, life has only come into existence once. 4.1 billion years ago, the first microbial life forms emerged that we all share common ancestry and DNA with. We are all related to everything on the planet that is alive. How did this happen, we are not sure but we WILL find out. What is interesting is that life has only emerged once, or so we think, meaning that even on Earth where the conditions for life are apparently "perfect" life has only emerged once and that was highly unlikely.

    Adding again to that is the leap from singular cell organisms to multiple cell organisms - highly unlikely. Then the leap from multiple cell organisms to animals, plants - highly unlikely. Then the leap from animals and birds to intelligent life like us - even more unlikely. All of these events are, of course, possible and may have happened on another planet in the Universe given the billions of stars and billions of planets that must orbit them, but they are still extremely unlikely. You would have more chance of winning the lottery a million times in a row (if you could live that long) than for the processes that have taken place for us to be here to be here. AMAZING!

    You don't need to have an afterlife to feel there is meaning. We are so fortunate to be hear that we should cherish each moment. I didn't exist for 13.8 billion years, now I do, but soon I won't exist again forever. Doesn't that mean that this incredible fortunate experience is worth treasuring? Doesn't that mean that the purpose for life is to enjoy and ensure that others can also enjoy? Doesn't that mean that by imposing strict rules on people through religion we are essentially wasting their time on trivial matters that ultimately don't matter?

    I think that the Universe is so incredible, the unknown is so exciting and the possibility of an infinite Universe so mind boggling that I struggle to not be happy. I hope that you can also come to terms with this and appreciate the wonder of the world you live in. Muhammed didn't have the imagination to invent reality. Reality is magic!

    If you want to know more, I would suggest listening to the Infinite Monkey Cage podcasts. They are free and awesome. I use Podcast republic, but I think you can use bbc iplayer radio to listen to them. They talk about loads of topics including science and religion, biology, philosophy and are worth a listen to as they are hilarious and informative.

    Cheers


    In 1888, Simon Newcomb that famous astronomer who plotted the pathway of the planets said that we had nothing else to discover with regards to astronomy... So don't worry. The unknown IS knowable
  • New to atheism . Needs help
     Reply #5 - March 02, 2016, 12:32 PM

    He was talking about other religions because it was believers in these other religions that he needed to sell Islam to.

    It's the basics of sales. He has to diss the competition. '100% less shirk than other brands.'
  • New to atheism . Needs help
     Reply #6 - March 02, 2016, 02:00 PM

    Well summarised
  • New to atheism . Needs help
     Reply #7 - March 02, 2016, 06:05 PM

    Al the other prophets before muhammed were legendery ?? O_o ? Tbh i didnt know that . Can you please share some articles regarding this topic

    Ty Smiley


    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/world/africa/03iht-moses.4.5130043.html?_r=0
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses#Historicity

    Quote
    The overwhelming modern scholarly consensus is, according to William Dever, that Moses is a figure of myth, not of history.


    The other ones are very famous and controversial, like Nuh's ark. Story of Adam and Eve also contradicts evolution, and Adam was the first prophet of Islam.

    You can google it, very easy to look for these articles. Use English names if necessary.  Afro
  • New to atheism . Needs help
     Reply #8 - March 03, 2016, 09:55 PM

    @Jameslewiscarr: that was great! Are you new in our forum?
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