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Theme Changer

 Topic: My responses to the masked arab

 (Read 6618 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • My responses to the masked arab
     OP - February 29, 2016, 09:27 PM

    Hi Guys I'm sure some of you remember me, but i don't blame you if you don't i haven't been active in this forum, but don't feel the wrong way, I'm not even active in Islamic forums such as Ummah.com, it's just web Forums are not my thing, i have to check them from time to time though my email. anyways I'm positive some of you are aware of the masked arab some of you might already a hardcore defender of the masked arab, but for those who don't want to read my blog refuting him you are not forced to, but if anyone who is skeptical about his claims and trying to fact check them, i did this job for you as i critically analysed 2 of his videos (more are coming in the future possible) and i was quite shocked at how dishonest he is, I'm sure some of you who are such a big fans of him just got offended, but again you are not forced to read through my refutation, please take note that if you have a problem with a single point i rised in my articles please point them out kindly and logically here, as i don't want to clutter my blog with so many comments, because its. will a blog, if you have questions post them here I'll be glad to answer them, any insults such as" F**** islam", and "hahahahahah the masked arab refuted and debunked you and your religion" that i receved from his fans will be ignored automatically, i even received threats from them
    anyways these are my 2 refutations to his videos

    give me your thoughts
    http://azblogtalk.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-masked-arab-is-masked-falsehood.html
    http://azblogtalk.blogspot.com/2016/01/why-masked-arab-is-masked-falsehood.html

    two links are different articles it's just the titles are similar

    thank you for your time
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #1 - March 01, 2016, 12:01 AM

    You are using anachronisms to argue your point which make it irrelevant. Also you are using stereotypes to argue your point which also make these irrelevant. Boys play with doll, so-called action figures. Girl also play violent video games so there goes that argument. Your are using opinions as if opinions matter. You could delete everything after the definition of pedophilia and your point would be sound. Everything after it does more damage then good. For example "The Jurisprudence have made the judgment in marriage and gave permission to young ones under one condition that they are to be consulted in marriage and they should reach adulthood or pass nine years of age" Notice there is no mention of puberty just an age requirement.

    You should link the videos themselves so people can see the references directly. After all this is a so-called rebuttal but you fail to reference what you are actually addressing. Your work also looks like a draft. It is very hard to read due to poor grammar, sentence structure and punctuation. This does not make your argument wrong but make it very hard to take seriously. I understand that some of this is due to how the website formatted everything cutting off sentences, unintentional paragraphs, etc.

    However one could still claim he was a child molester, your own sources show this is the case. The same fallacies you claim MA used you have used. You made the same mistakes you did the last time you posted something here.

    Thanks for the videos Yeez
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #2 - March 01, 2016, 12:23 AM

    ................
    You should link the videos themselves so people can see the references directly. After all this is a so-called rebuttal but you fail to reference what you are actually addressing. Your work also looks like a draft. It is very hard to read due to poor grammar, sentence structure and punctuation. ............................


    The Masked Arab you tubes..

    Quote


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #3 - March 01, 2016, 01:45 PM

    You are using anachronisms to argue your point which make it irrelevant. Also you are using stereotypes to argue your point which also make these irrelevant. Boys play with doll, so-called action figures. Girl also play violent video games so there goes that argument. Your are using opinions as if opinions matter. You could delete everything after the definition of pedophilia and your point would be sound. Everything after it does more damage then good. For example "The Jurisprudence have made the judgment in marriage and gave permission to young ones under one condition that they are to be consulted in marriage and they should reach adulthood or pass nine years of age" Notice there is no mention of puberty just an age requirement.

    You should link the videos themselves so people can see the references directly. After all this is a so-called rebuttal but you fail to reference what you are actually addressing. Your work also looks like a draft. It is very hard to read due to poor grammar, sentence structure and punctuation. This does not make your argument wrong but make it very hard to take seriously. I understand that some of this is due to how the website formatted everything cutting off sentences, unintentional paragraphs, etc.

    However one could still claim he was a child molester, your own sources show this is the case. The same fallacies you claim MA used you have used. You made the same mistakes you did the last time you posted something here.

    Thanks for the videos Yeez


    "You are using anachronisms to argue your point which make it irrelevant."
    example?
    "Also you are using stereotypes to argue your point which also make these irrelevant. "
    such as? i only respond to his insults with equal ones

    "Girl also play violent video games so there goes that argument"
    i never said they don't don't strawman me, dolls are primarily a female thing, and saying that girls who keep dolls or teady bears are children is out most idiotic, my own sister is one year older than me she is 25 and she have dolls she is a college graduate, all her friends aswell have dolls, are they all children to you?

    "Your are using opinions as if opinions matter. You could delete everything after the definition of pedophilia and your point would be sound"
    delete what? i cited academic sources and references all agree that you can't just look at someone sexually attracted to children and immediately label them as pedophiles, also they said that if someone follows a tradition or religion that allow them for child marriage they are not pedophiles, that is not what I'm saying at all that is what academics and sexologist say
    " Everything after it does more damage then good. For example "The Jurisprudence have made the judgment in marriage and gave permission to young ones under one condition that they are to be consulted in marriage and they should reach adulthood or pass nine years of age" Notice there is no mention of puberty just an age requirement. "

    adulthood is when they are mentally and physically ready, notice how i provided academic and biological sources that even at the age of 8 you can still hit puberty, these are all undisputed academic sources, and the university of Chicago is not the only place where you can find such claim, but i also noticed how you ignored all the sources i gave from classical scholars where they explicitly say that child marriage is only allowed if there is special benefit for the child, I.e giving your child to a rich man so she can grow up in a rich house, non of them said that you can give away your child to a husband who is sexually attracted to her, Infact almost all of them agree that if the husband is sexually deviant he should not be handled to the child, but rather wait for her to be ready, notice how many of them said that she should not be handled if she will be damaged

    "You should link the videos themselves so people can see the references directly."
    why would i, only his fans know about my blog, plus from the title and the name of the person they can easily google him and see the video I'm targeting

    "Your work also looks like a draft. It is very hard to read due to poor grammar, sentence structure and punctuation."
    English is not my first language, I'm an arab i didn't grow up in Uk like he did, second of all how come all English speaking audience including muslims who have read my rebuttal clearly understood it? and you didn't?

    "I understand that some of this is due to how the website formatted everything cutting off sentences, unintentional paragraphs, etc. "

    this is partly true i struggled for 30 minutes editing my blog live on the website when it messed up some endnootes

    "However one could still claim he was a child molester, your own sources show this is the case. The same fallacies you claim MA used you have used. You made the same mistakes you did the last time you posted something here. "

    Mistakes such as? as for child molester this is also addressed in the academic sources i provided, but he still doesn't fall under child molester purely because he was following his tradition

    let me ask you for real, why is it only anti-islam polemicists such as yourself i assume, and TMA or any ex muslim claim Muhammad is a pedophile but when you present your argument to any sexologist they will not take it seriously when they immediately know that Muhammad was simply following his tradition?
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #4 - March 01, 2016, 01:50 PM

    Is that you Ahmed? We Skyped the other day with QSE (under my real name of course), remember me? Hey  great

    Will read it after my lectures.
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #5 - March 01, 2016, 02:09 PM

    "Is that you Ahmed? We Skyped the other day with QSE (under my real name of course), remember me. Hey  great

    Will read it after my lectures."

    oh is that you ? yes we talked about many things including comic books, yes of course i remember you i have you on Skype

    sure take your time and read it carefully
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #6 - March 01, 2016, 02:26 PM

    ...."Girl also play violent video games so there goes that argument" i never said they don't don't strawman me, dolls are primarily a female thing, and saying that girls who keep dolls or teady bears are children is out most idiotic, my own sister is one year older than me she is 25 and she have dolls she is a college graduate, all her friends aswell have dolls, are they all children to you?.....

    That is a very good point in telling critics of "THE STORY OF MUHAMMAD_AISHA " that a girls/ladies/women/ grandmothers ..playing with dolls doesn't mean that she was 8 year old  and I agree with you playing with dolls doesn't mean that she was 8 year old..

    But  the problem is NOT with the story but IDIOTS IN ISLAM THUMPING THEIR CHEST and speaking in  to loud speakers in Mosques and preaching to old farts " that Aisha was 8 year old when alleged Prophet of Islam consummated Aisha" and we all can follow Prophet Muhammad's foot steps in marriages and consummations.....   That is the problem..

    Off course.. the moment we consider Quran is word of allah/god and "Muhammad" as messenger/prophet of  allah/god more problems props into the stories of Islam.

     
    Quote
    ...........adulthood is when they are mentally and physically ready, notice how i provided academic and biological sources that even at the age of 8 you can still hit puberty, these are all undisputed academic sources, ...........


    did you write that Ahmed?  or are you pasting it from some source/some post?  IF YOU SAID THAT,   do you approve a 53 year old DIRTY OLD BUGGERS sleeping with 8 year old girls who happened to hit puberty?.

    Don't be foolish....

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #7 - March 01, 2016, 02:37 PM

    "That is a very good point in telling critics of "THE STORY OF MUHAMMAD_AISHA " that a girls/ladies/women/ grandmothers ..playing dolls doesn't mean that she is 8 year old .. And I agree with you playing with dolls doesn't mean that she was 8 year old.. the problem is NOT with the story but IDIOTS IN ISLAM THUMPING THEIR CHEST and speaking in  loud speakers in Mosques and preaching to old farts  that Aisha was 8 year old when alleged Porphet of Islam consummated Aisha.. That is the problem..

    Off course.. the moment we consider Quran is word of allah/god and "Muhammad" as messenger/prophet of  allah/god more problems props into the stories of Islam.

     
    Quote
    ...........adulthood is when they are mentally and physically ready, notice how i provided academic and biological sources that even at the age of 8 you can still hit puberty, these are all undisputed academic sources, ...........


    did you write that Ahmed?  or are you pasting it from some source/some post?  IF YOU SAID THAT,   do you approve a 53 year old DIRTY OLD BUGGERS sleeping with 8 year old girls who happened to hit puberty?.

    Don't be foolish...."


    "That is a very good point in telling critics of "THE STORY OF MUHAMMAD_AISHA " that a girls/ladies/women/ grandmothers ..playing dolls doesn't mean that she is 8 year old .. And I agree with you playing with dolls doesn't mean that she was 8 year old"

    that is not what i meant, what I'm saying Playing with dolls if you are a girls DOESN'T make you a Child

    "Off course.. the moment we consider Quran is word of allah/god and "Muhammad" as messenger/prophet of  allah/god more problems props into the stories of Islam."

    red herring fallacy

    "...........adulthood is when they are mentally and physically ready, notice how i provided academic and biological sources that even at the age of 8 you can still hit puberty, these are all undisputed academic sources, ...........


    did you write that Ahmed?  or are you pasting it from some source/some post?  IF YOU SAID THAT,   do you approve a 53 year old DIRTY OLD BUGGERS sleeping with 8 year old girls who happened to hit puberty?.

    Don't be foolish...."

    there is a reason why i said if you have a problem with my blog point them out in logical and civilized response, not insults and mockery
    second of all that is NOT me that is what scince says, this is a scientific fact, Girls reach puberty from 8-12 accommodating with 3 years of biological changes in their body, if you are saying by that that i approve a 53 year old marriage to a 9 year old then go and insult the doctors at the university of Chicago and almost every other scientific who makes the claim that girls reach puberty at the age of 8 or 9, which is why we have the saying "don't shoot the messenger"
    third of all this is purely a knee jerk reaction to a scientific, fact, but i also noticed how you ignored all the sources of classical Islamic jurisprudence where they explicitly say that you can't have sexual intercourse with a child until they are physically fit and mature enough to do so and attacked this scientific quotation that i made, i also noticed how you didn't address the sources i provided with academics that anyone who is simply following a tradition and religion for child marriage he is not to be considered a pedophile

    but you still attack the messenger

    again if you have a problem rise it in logical manner, tell me your issues with civilized way on how adults deal with it, don't act like a the masked arab acolyte lunatic
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #8 - March 01, 2016, 02:43 PM

    .................

    again if you have a problem.......................

    I have more problems in reading your posts and figuring out who said what?

     So Zaid Ahmed first practice how to quote other's post in your post..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #9 - March 01, 2016, 02:48 PM

    ..................
    Quote
    Quote
    AhmedZaid9119  : red herring fallacy
    "...........adulthood is when they are mentally and physically ready, notice how i provided academic and biological sources that even at the age of 8 you can still hit puberty, these are all undisputed academic sources, .......

    ....
    Yeezevee:   did you write that Ahmed?  or are you pasting it from some source/some post?  IF YOU SAID THAT,   do you approve a 53 year old DIRTY OLD BUGGERS sleeping with 8 year old girls who happened to hit puberty?.

    Don't be foolish...."


    there is a reason why i said if you have a problem with my blog point them out in logical and civilized response, not insults and mockery
    second of all that is NOT me that is what scince says, this is a scientific fact, Girls reach puberty from 8-12 accommodating with 3 years of biological changes in their body, if you are saying by that that i approve a 53 year old marriage to a 9 year old then go and insult the doctors at the university of Chicago and almost every other scientific who makes the claim that girls reach puberty at the age of 8 or 9, which is why we have the saying "don't shoot the messenger"
    third of all this is purely a knee jerk reaction to a scientific, fact, but i also noticed how you ignored all the sources of classical Islamic jurisprudence where they explicitly say that you can't have sexual intercourse with a child until they are physically fit and mature enough to do so and attacked this scientific quotation that i made, i also noticed how you didn't address the sources i provided with academics that anyone who is simply following a tradition and religion for child marriage he is not to be considered a pedophile

    but you still attack the messenger

    again if you have a problem rise it in logical manner, tell me your issues with civilized way on how adults deal with it, don't act like a the masked arab acolyte lunatic

      I see....  well I will wait until you finish your college and become adult AhmedZaid9119 ..,  So until that time continue to read and write .. and Read Quran..


     

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #10 - March 01, 2016, 02:59 PM

    "  I see....  well I will wait until you finish your college and become adult AhmedZaid9119 ..,  So until that time continue to read and write .. and Read Quran.. "

    finish college? i already did, I'm an engineer and i thought i already said that in the intruduction post i meade when i first came to this website
    second of all you seams to be mocking my personality, this is mere ad homienm attack

    Become adult? ok I'm sure you are a troll now

    Read the Quran? i assume that there is a joke around there somewhere, so let me see, a guy who has been studying islam such as myself for over 4 years, looking into issue one by one, how have read the Quran more than three times during his life time, who at one point in his life time also apostates from the religion and became an atheist then reverted back after long study, who have memorized several verses, read many books on issues regarding fundamentalism and the origin of islam, and currently planning on reading more, who is every day discuss and debate religion and so on

    On top of all that according to you i have not read the Quran? Clap Clap Clap Clap
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #11 - March 01, 2016, 03:28 PM

    Can you please use the quote function when responding to other people's posts.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #12 - March 01, 2016, 03:44 PM

    Quote
     yeezevee: ]"  I see....  well I will wait until you finish your college and become adult AhmedZaid9119 ..,  So until that time continue to read and write .. and Read Quran.. "

    .....I'm an engineer....
    .... studying islam such as myself for over 4 years....,
     ...read the Quran more than three times during his life time
    .... one point in his life time also apostates from the religion
    .... and became an atheist......
    ..... then reverted back after long study, who have memorized several verses,......
    .... read many books on issues regarding fundamentalism and the origin of islam.....,
    ....... currently planning on reading more, ................

    Good.. good

    So AhmedZaid9119
    you are an engineer
    you read Quran
    you are studying Islam for four years
    you read Quran more than three times in your life time
    you became an apostate....
    you became an atheist....
    you reverted back ...

    that is all wonderful So now    .... currently you are planning on reading more books and more Quran?  and more Islamic history??, ............... ..well I am glad to know that  Ahmed..

    Then read more,  here are links for you from this forum itself..

    Reading Quran And Inquiring in to Prophet Muhammad's Life from Quran

    Freely down loadable Books on Pro-Islam and anti Islam

    Chronological History of  Islam  

    I will read through your blog.. but did you write anything about Quran and why it is word of Allah/god??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #13 - March 01, 2016, 03:48 PM

    "Then read more here are links for you from this forum itself..


    Reading Quran And Inquiring in to Prophet Muhammad's Life from Quran

    Freely down loadable Books on Pro-Islam and anti Islam

    Chronological History of  Islam 

    I will read through your blog.. but did you write anything about Quran and why it is word of Allah/god??"

    putting an entire religion on a blog is not my thing, I don't necessarily subscribe to the Sunni tradition either, I'm more likely a quranist, but anyways, you suggested a bunch of links, why would i read pro and anti Islamic book? why not books that are unbiased?
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #14 - March 01, 2016, 03:49 PM

    Can you please use the quote function when responding to other people's posts.


    the Quote Function is sometimes not available when I'm responding for some odd reason
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #15 - March 01, 2016, 04:01 PM

    If you click on "reply" in the bottom right corner of the previous post, it'll give you the option to quote.

    "God will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Make me and my mother gods beside God?" Qur'an 5:116

    "I told them clearly that I am a man...and that they should never make a mistake in assuming or pretending that the human being is emanated from a deity." - Haile Selassie
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #16 - March 01, 2016, 04:21 PM

    Good luck debunking MA. He backs his claims up with solid sources that are available to everyone. He works hard to make his arguments airtight in ways that other youtubers come no where close to.

    However, I'll give your blog a read when I can.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #17 - March 01, 2016, 04:27 PM

    "Good luck debunking MA. He backs his claims up with solid sources that are available to everyone. He works hard to make his arguments airtight in ways that other youtubers come no where close to.

    However, I'll give your blog a read when I can."

    just because he cites sources doesn't mean his argument is right, i responded to many of his sources and pointed out his dishonest mistranslations

    but i can fully accept the same logic on myself, just because i cite solid sources myself doesn't mean I'm right, i could be fabricating them, it's up to the reader to investigate and that is what i want from the masked arab fans to do, i want them to be individual thinkers, they can say "Awesome the masked arab made a new video i shall watch it and love it and share it" i want them to think like this "ok so here are his sources, let us check every single one, let us check each one, does this one sound right, does he represent the sources correct?" this is how you critically look into a claim

    "in ways that other youtubers come no where close to."
    i believe this is false, for example David wood in act17 apologetic make harder videos with careful editing and he also cite more sources, the masked arab is noting special really, he is just another polemicist (no offense)
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #18 - March 01, 2016, 04:30 PM

    ...................................
    Quote
    yeezevee:  I will read through your blog.. but did you write anything about Quran and why it is word of Allah/god??"


    putting an entire religion on a blog is not my thing, I don't necessarily subscribe to the Sunni tradition either, I'm more likely a quranist, but anyways, you suggested a bunch of links, why would i read pro and anti Islamic book? why not books that are unbiased?

    you are what??  a quranist?  where did you read word "Aisha" in Quran?? why are you are talking about Aisha and her age?? and her marriage?  THERE WAS NO AISHA IN  ISLAM"   and  there is a simple question in my response.....try to answer it..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #19 - March 01, 2016, 04:37 PM

    If you click on "reply" in the bottom right corner of the previous post, it'll give you the option to quote.


    it's not always visible for some odd reason, probably if you don't quote me and type normal text then i can use the quote
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #20 - March 01, 2016, 04:40 PM

    putting an entire religion on a blog is not my thing, I don't necessarily subscribe to the Sunni tradition either, I'm more likely a quranist, but anyways, you suggested a bunch of links, why would i read pro and anti Islamic book? why not books that are unbiased?
    you are what??  a quranist?  where did you read word "Aisha" in Quran?? why are you are talking about Aisha and her age?? and her marriage?  THERE WAS NO AISHA IN  ISLAM"   and  there is a simple question in my response.....try to answer it..


    the reason why i use Sunni tradition in my blog even though i don't necessarily believe in it is because when someone misrepresent a hadith or a narration i better treat it justly, what i mean by that if someone cite a weak hadith for example i tell them this hadith is classified as weak, or when someone misrepresent a Sunni tradition then i better represent it accurately and correct their mistakes using the same tradition

    also being purely a quranist in my reply will mean i won't be able to use alot of sources, and my response will more likely be inconvenant
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #21 - March 01, 2016, 07:42 PM

    ......
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #22 - March 01, 2016, 08:19 PM

    So AZ9119 says :
    Quote
    Girls reach puberty from 8-12 accommodating with 3 years of biological changes in their body, if you are saying by that that i approve a 53 year old marriage to a 9 year old then go and insult the doctors at the university of Chicago and almost every other scientific who makes the claim that girls reach puberty at the age of 8 or 9, 


    So What !  Here's what  WHO and the NIH  say about teenage pregnancies.

    http://www.who.int/maternal_child_adolescent/topics/maternal/adolescent_pregnancy/en/


    https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001516.htm

    And these dangers would be worse if the child is sub-teen, i.e 8 – 10 year old.
    http://www.livescience.com/19584-10-year-birth.html

    Quote
    Nor are 10-, 11- and 12-year-olds remotely prepared to care for a baby, Wall said. But the risks are physical, as well.
    "The placenta preferentially will take nutrition from the mother, who really is a child," said Sherry Thomas, an ob/gyn at Mission Community Hospital in Panorama City, Calif. That means that the developing fetus will leach calcium and other nutrients from a child who should still be growing herself. Likewise, pregnancy puts a major strain on the cardiovascular system, according to Wall. Pregnant women have about 50 percent more blood circulating through their bodies compared with non-pregnant women. [8 Odd Bodily Changes During Pregnancy]
    The greatest danger, however, is to the pelvic floor. Girls may start ovulating and menstruating as early as age 9, though the average is around 12 to 13. (Some studies suggest that the average age of first menstruation is dropping, but the data is not conclusive.) Just because a girl can get pregnant, though, doesn't mean she can safely deliver a baby. The pelvis does not fully widen until the late teens, meaning that young girls may not be able to push the baby through the birth canal.
    The results are horrific, said Wall and Thomas, who have both worked in Africa treating women in the aftermath of such labors. Girls may labor for days; many die. Their babies often don't survive labor either.
    The women and girls who do survive often develop fistulas, which are holes between the vaginal wall and the rectum or bladder. When the baby's head pushes down and gets stuck, it can cut portions of the mother's soft tissue between its skull and her pelvic bones. As a result, the tissue dies, and a hole forms. Feces and urine then leak through the hole and out of the vagina. Women with fistulas are often divorced and 
      and shunned. And young girls are at higher risk.
    "The younger you are, the more trauma will occur, because the pelvic floor isn't developed enough," Thomas said. In that way, she said, the young Colombian girl was fortunate to have access to a hospital that could provide a caesarean section.
    As growth tends to slow in girls once menstruation starts, a 10-year-old capable of getting pregnant is likely to be especially small, with a small pelvis, Wall said. And even if puberty onset is happening earlier (Wall isn't entirely convinced by the current data), pelvises are certainly not maturing any faster, he said. If puberty does occur earlier, that would put young girls at risk for dangerous pregnancies for a longer period of time. 
    "It's heart-wrenching," Thomas said. "It's just overwhelming to see these young women pregnant and delivering."



    This from a cursaory google search... there must be tons more out there.

    I do agree, the  the  term 'pedophile' is provocative or even inflammatory if we judge a 7th century ordinary man's mores by today's standards.   However a Prophet who is set up as the ideal example for all times should be held to a higher standard, I would think.
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #23 - March 01, 2016, 08:33 PM

    I think you should just present what you think is the single strongest point, because I looked at the sun setting thing, and struggled to find any worth responding to.
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #24 - March 01, 2016, 08:44 PM

    the reason why i use Sunni tradition in my blog even though i don't necessarily believe in it is because when someone misrepresent a hadith or a narration i better treat it justly, what i mean by that if someone cite a weak hadith for example i tell them this hadith is classified as weak, or when someone misrepresent a Sunni tradition then i better represent it accurately and correct their mistakes using the same tradition

    also being purely a quranist in my reply will mean i won't be able to use alot of sources, and my response will more likely be inconvenant

    Ahmed...AhmedZaid....dear AhmedZaid9119 ... your response is irrelevant as you are Quranist.

    Otherwise You are  NOT a Quranist..  you are not using /you have not used any Quran in you blog.,  You are only using hadith in defense of Islam against that VERY SMART Arab guy who uses hadith against Islam.  So in my view you  fail.,...you miserably fail .. That guy Arab atheist  is uses Hadith in support of criticizing  dirty old buggers of Islam that use Islam to marry/sleep with 9 year old girls  .

    My suggestion to you as Quranist is .. ONLY USE QURAN and ONLY READ QURAN.. nothing else.. . Again there is NO Aisha in Quran hence there was no Aisha in Islam

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #25 - March 01, 2016, 08:47 PM

    Found one good point from you. He confused 'sahih in chain' with 'sahih'.  Although it is pretty obviously an honest and not massively significant mistake.

    Are there any other good points? If so, what is the best?


    Edit: I changed my mind. Not such a great point afterall, since there was a version graded sahih. You point out that it was graded sahih by a modern scholar. That seems pretty irrelevant. He didn't claim it was graded sahih by anybody in particular. Only that it was graded sahih and gave the reference.
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #26 - March 01, 2016, 08:50 PM

    "So AZ9119 says :
    Quote
    Girls reach puberty from 8-12 accommodating with 3 years of biological changes in their body, if you are saying by that that i approve a 53 year old marriage to a 9 year old then go and insult the doctors at the university of Chicago and almost every other scientific who makes the claim that girls reach puberty at the age of 8 or 9,


    So What !  Here's what  WHO and the NIH  say about teenage pregnancies.

    http://www.who.int/maternal_child_adolescent/topics/maternal/adolescent_pregnancy/en/


    https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001516.htm

    And these dangers would be worse if the child is sub-teen, i.e 8 – 10 year old.
    http://www.livescience.com/19584-10-year-birth.html

    Quote
    Nor are 10-, 11- and 12-year-olds remotely prepared to care for a baby, Wall said. But the risks are physical, as well.
    "The placenta preferentially will take nutrition from the mother, who really is a child," said Sherry Thomas, an ob/gyn at Mission Community Hospital in Panorama City, Calif. That means that the developing fetus will leach calcium and other nutrients from a child who should still be growing herself. Likewise, pregnancy puts a major strain on the cardiovascular system, according to Wall. Pregnant women have about 50 percent more blood circulating through their bodies compared with non-pregnant women. [8 Odd Bodily Changes During Pregnancy]
    The greatest danger, however, is to the pelvic floor. Girls may start ovulating and menstruating as early as age 9, though the average is around 12 to 13. (Some studies suggest that the average age of first menstruation is dropping, but the data is not conclusive.) Just because a girl can get pregnant, though, doesn't mean she can safely deliver a baby. The pelvis does not fully widen until the late teens, meaning that young girls may not be able to push the baby through the birth canal.
    The results are horrific, said Wall and Thomas, who have both worked in Africa treating women in the aftermath of such labors. Girls may labor for days; many die. Their babies often don't survive labor either.
    The women and girls who do survive often develop fistulas, which are holes between the vaginal wall and the rectum or bladder. When the baby's head pushes down and gets stuck, it can cut portions of the mother's soft tissue between its skull and her pelvic bones. As a result, the tissue dies, and a hole forms. Feces and urine then leak through the hole and out of the vagina. Women with fistulas are often divorced and
      and shunned. And young girls are at higher risk.
    "The younger you are, the more trauma will occur, because the pelvic floor isn't developed enough," Thomas said. In that way, she said, the young Colombian girl was fortunate to have access to a hospital that could provide a caesarean section.
    As growth tends to slow in girls once menstruation starts, a 10-year-old capable of getting pregnant is likely to be especially small, with a small pelvis, Wall said. And even if puberty onset is happening earlier (Wall isn't entirely convinced by the current data), pelvises are certainly not maturing any faster, he said. If puberty does occur earlier, that would put young girls at risk for dangerous pregnancies for a longer period of time.
    "It's heart-wrenching," Thomas said. "It's just overwhelming to see these young women pregnant and delivering."



    This from a cursaory google search... there must be tons more out there.

    I do agree, the  the  term 'pedophile' is provocative or even inflammatory if we judge a 7th century ordinary man's mores by today's standards.   However a Prophet who is set up as the ideal example for all times should be held to a higher standard, I would think."

    first thanks for the reply and conducting some research into the topic, however i think you are taking something from my article that isn't really there, i think is that you are presupposing your conclusion regarding child marriage, correct me if I'm wrong are you saying that my article condone child marriage or give favor for it?if so, can you quote me directly of where i made such statement? if i did so i'll gladly remove it
    My main argument and MY MAIN CLAIM, is that saying Aisha didn't reach puberty just as much as the masked arab claim, is scientifically and logically false

    as for your claim on Muhammad you haven't made it clear, are you agreeing that calling him a pedophile for simply following a tradition is an inaccurate term logically and scientifically as i claim? if so let go back to your comment of him being a role model, although Muhammad says in Quran that he is that he is merely a human being, and if we think about it human beings make mistakes, on top of all that Muhammad did justified apparently his marriage to Aisha according to hadith sources, where he told her that he saw her in a dream as a vision from god and told him to marry her, this is kinda probably the justification for his marriage, which means that he married her duo to a vision probably not his sexual lost, although he is described as a rule model that doesn't mean we need to do everything he did, he lived in houses made of clay and rides camel as mean of transportation, and lived under tents, does this mean that we have to do that?
    when he said that he is merely a human being i think this sends a message that he is not to be followed completely and he was a man of his time
    i could be wrong and i could accept that, but if you think about it he was simply following his 7th century tradition, Not his own desires, otherwise contemporary sources will accuse him of such

    this is not me trying to harmonize it or trying to live with it, i agree it does seams like a problematic issue, but if you look at it logically it's really not, it's only problematic if your way of thinking is emotional and shallow, i don't ignore these parts of hadiths and these parts of Islamic tradition that raises question mark on top of your head, i accept that they exist, and i laugh at those who claim moderate muslims are not real muslims if they don't practice these things, do we need to leave machine guns for swords and horses as means for battle? if you look in history even after the death of the prophet even during his family tree, muslims did evolve in this battle tactics, from swords they brought the manganon several years during the battle of Jerusalem, if old muslims classical muslims will want to truly copy the prophet life time in every way, they will not bring in new weapons and tools during the history of islam
    i hope that makes sense to you

    i think this clears it up, what I'm trying to say is that in islam muslims should imitate the prophet in some aspects and in others they should like they always did in hsitory
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #27 - March 01, 2016, 08:52 PM

    I think you should just present what you think is the single strongest point, because I looked at the sun setting thing, and struggled to find any worth responding to.


    your point being? are you saying that despite the fact that i showed how the masked arab cited weak hadiths and fabricated narration from al-tabari, and the fact that the tafsires he cited non of them claim literal interpretation after all of that it's not worthy to respond to him?
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #28 - March 01, 2016, 08:58 PM

    Ahmed...AhmedZaid....dear AhmedZaid9119 ... your response is irrelevant as you are Quranist.

    Otherwise You are  NOT a Quranist..  you are not using /you have not used any Quran in you blog.,  You are only using hadith in defense of Islam against that VERY SMART Arab guy who used hadith against Islam.  So in my view you  fail.,...you miserably fail .. That guy Arab atheist  is uses Hadith in support of criticizing  dirty old buggers of Islam that use Islam to marry/sleep with 9 year old girls  .

    My suggestion to you as Quranist is .. ONLY USE QURAN and ONLY READ QURAN.. nothing else.. . Again there is NO Aisha in Quran hence there was no Aisha in Islam


    "Otherwise You are  NOT a Quranist..  you are not using /you have not used any Quran in you blog.,  You are only using hadith in defense of Islam against that VERY SMART Arab guy who used hadith against Islam.  So in my view you  fail.,...you miserably fail .. That guy Arab atheist  is uses Hadith in support of criticizing  dirty old buggers of Islam that use Islam to marry/sleep with 9 year old girls  ."

    ok you need to pay attention and stop jerking off and wanking to his videos, That VERY SMART Arab guy (not so smart if he use fabricated hadiths) has deliberately made dishonest mistranslated deliberately brought fabricated narrations to fool his gullible audience such as yourself

    i have stated for like three times already, when someone spew out a lie even when they use a source i don't necessarily believe in, i need to call them out on their lie, plus as i said being Quranist in nature will limit my responses alot and make me use much less sources, plus being quranist will not make anyone believe me, so i use hadith sources to backup my claims

    how come raven understood easily what i do and you are still struggling with that?

    again my views are irrelevant, if you have a problem with my blog present it as logical response not HAHAHAHAHA the masked arab is this and that and you are this and that

    i have no time for ad homienm and glorifying some nobody on youtube
  • My responses to the masked arab
     Reply #29 - March 01, 2016, 09:00 PM

    "You are using anachronisms to argue your point which make it irrelevant."
    example?


    I provided an example within my comment. Also look up what anachronism means then reread your blog with that in mind.

    Quote
    "Also you are using stereotypes to argue your point which also make these irrelevant. "


    I provided an example in the comment. Read it again.

    Quote
    I only respond to his insults with equal ones


    Which undermines your logic since you need to use insults as part of your argument.


    Quote
    "Girl also play violent video games so there goes that argument"
    i never said they don't don't strawman me, dolls are primarily a female thing, and saying that girls who keep dolls or teady bears are children is out most idiotic, my own sister is one year older than me she is 25 and she have dolls she is a college graduate, all her friends aswell have dolls, are they all children to you?


    You still used it as an example thus still a stereotype. You are still ignoring that a doll is consider idolatry. The exception for children is based on the verse by Aisha about dolls itself. That is my point. Dolls within Islam are for children only. If an adult has one then they are are breaking idolatry rulings

    http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/15910/1/List-of-Gender-Stereotypes.html

    Quote
    "Your are using opinions as if opinions matter. You could delete everything after the definition of pedophilia and your point would be sound"
    delete what?
     


    Sorry I wasn't specific enough. Kecia Ali view on hadith is an opinion only.

    Quote
    i cited academic sources and references all agree that you can't just look at someone sexually attracted to children and immediately label them as pedophiles, also they said that if someone follows a tradition or religion that allow them for child marriage they are not pedophiles, that is not what I'm saying at all that is what academics and sexologist say
    " Everything after it does more damage then good. For example "The Jurisprudence have made the judgment in marriage and gave permission to young ones under one condition that they are to be consulted in marriage and they should reach adulthood or pass nine years of age" Notice there is no mention of puberty just an age requirement. "


    I already said these were fine

    adulthood is when they are mentally and physically ready, notice how i provided academic and biological sources that even at the age of 8 you can still hit puberty, these are all undisputed academic sources, and the university of Chicago is not the only place where you can find such claim, but i also noticed how you ignored all the sources i gave from classical scholars where they explicitly say that child marriage is only allowed if there is special benefit for the child, I.e giving your child to a rich man so she can grow up in a rich house, non of them said that you can give away your child to a husband who is sexually attracted to her, Infact almost all of them agree that if the husband is sexually deviant he should not be handled to the child, but rather wait for her to be ready, notice how many of them said that she should not be handled if she will be damaged [/quote]

    Hit puberty but not finish puberty. There is a difference. I never ignored these sources. These sources are the very ones I said did more harm than good. You contradict yourself by providing ground for child marriage.

    Quote
    "You should link the videos themselves so people can see the references directly."
    why would i, only his fans know about my blog, plus from the title and the name of the person they can easily google him and see the video I'm targeting


    You made the assumption that his fans are here and they know his videos well. Obviously I didn't. It is sloppy work that is my point.

    Quote
    "Your work also looks like a draft. It is very hard to read due to poor grammar, sentence structure and punctuation."
    English is not my first language, I'm an arab i didn't grow up in Uk like he did, second of all how come all English speaking audience including muslims who have read my rebuttal clearly understood it? and you didn't?


    I said it was hard to read not that I didn't understand it. Also the blog's format seems smaller than whatever you used to type up the article thus distorts what you wrote by forcing line drops and paraphrases.

    Quote
    this is partly true i struggled for 30 minutes editing my blog live on the website when it messed up some endnootes


    Yes like I said it looks like the blog format reformatted what you wrote. Software conflicts.

    Quote
    Mistakes such as? as for child molester this is also addressed in the academic sources i provided, but he still doesn't fall under child molester purely because he was following his tradition


    Tradition is irrelevant as child abuse is not dictate by culture. Also your argument is relativistic so I can use the same argument against Islam. Islam is not longer suitable in modern cultures, done.

    Quote
    let me ask you for real, why is it only anti-islam polemicists such as yourself i assume, and TMA or any ex muslim claim Muhammad is a pedophile but when you present your argument to any sexologist they will not take it seriously when they immediately know that Muhammad was simply following his tradition?


    I never said pedophile. I said child molester. Tradition is irrelevant, it only shows the human nature of Islam in which human standards are acceptable  Again the same argument can be used against Islam.
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