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 Topic: The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz

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  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #30 - February 15, 2016, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 01:49 PM
    The irony of it all is that most of Maajid Nawaz audience are White atheists and ex muslims that thinks bombing Middle East will wipe out Islamism off the region,yet he wants to reform Islam that way. There are real muslim reformers out there on the front line making differences and trying to make changes but ya'll don't give a fuck and care to know about them...or maybe unless it's someone who kisses up to the white "liberal" atheists asses and take their money which they don't and they never will.


    I have to say that I found it incredibly disturbing that his great ally Sam Harris wrote about the possibility of nuking Muslims in his book The End of Faith. What are the odds that an Islamist regime intent on destroying the West will come into power as a real state (not a rogue one like ISIS) and that this regime would manage to develop a nuclear weapon? What was the point of even mentioning this scenario that doesn't even seem feasible? It's as though the thought of nuking Muslims is some sort of wet dream of his that he ended up putting on paper.
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #31 - February 15, 2016, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 01:19 PM
    He may not have said it explicitly he tends to say those things along those lines and when he is faulted by the leftists he resort to calling them Regressive leftists


    So you made it up to support your arguments. Okay, at least you are honest.
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #32 - February 15, 2016, 02:06 PM
    ^Whatever gives you a good night sleep. Judging from most of your posts apart from this thread,I won't bother wasting my time arguing with you. You just argue for the sake of arguing
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #33 - February 15, 2016, 02:09 PM
    To be honest, Maajid Nawaz to me, seems to want to change the opinions of Sam Harris, Bill Maher, etc. Nawaz uses a different approach to deal with people like Sam Harris, like being their friends and then telling them that you have to deal with Islam differently, instead of using profiling, nuking or whatever extreme views they had. At least I have never seen Nawaz having these extreme views themselves, so that's good.

    Quote
    He may not have said it explicitly he tends to say those things along those lines and when he is faulted by the leftists he resort to calling them Regressive leftists


    Give an actual example from video / article where this thing happens, Nawaz tries to shut down debate by calling them regressive.

    Quote
    The irony of it all is that most of Maajid Nawaz audience are White atheists and ex muslims that thinks bombing Middle East will wipe out Islamism off the region,yet he wants to reform Islam that way.


    Example of Nawaz thinking that bombing ME would reform Islam?

    Quote
    There are real muslim reformers out there on the front line making differences and trying to make changes but ya'll don't give a fuck and care to know about them.


    Like who?
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #34 - February 15, 2016, 02:11 PM
    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 01:49 PM
    The irony of it all is that most of Maajid Nawaz audience are White atheists and ex muslims that thinks bombing Middle East will wipe out Islamism off the region,yet he wants to reform Islam that way. There are real muslim reformers out there on the front line making differences and trying to make changes but ya'll don't give a fuck and care to know about them...or maybe unless it's someone who kisses up to the white "liberal" atheists asses and take their money which they don't and they never will.


    Such as? And how do you know that White atheists and ex muslims don't give a fuck and care to know about them?
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #35 - February 15, 2016, 02:15 PM
    Quote
    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 01:49 PM
    The irony of it all is that most of Maajid Nawaz audience are White atheists and ex muslims that thinks bombing Middle East will wipe out Islamism off the region,yet he wants to reform Islam that way. There are real muslim reformers out there on the front line making differences and trying to make changes but ya'll don't give a fuck and care to know about them...or maybe unless it's someone who kisses up to the white "liberal" atheists asses and take their money which they don't and they never will.

    Quote from: Helaine on February 15, 2016, 02:09 PM
    To be honest, Maajid Nawaz to me, seems to want to change the opinions of Sam Harris, Bill Maher, etc. Nawaz uses a different approach to deal with people like Sam Harris, like being their friends and then telling them that you have to deal with Islam differently, instead of using profiling, nuking or whatever extreme views they had. At least I have never seen Nawaz having these extreme views themselves, so that's good.

    Give an actual example from video / article where this thing happens, Nawaz tries to shut down debate by calling them regressive.

    Example of Nawaz thinking that bombing ME would reform Islam?

    Like who?


    Helaine  ..when you fight with double edged swords  often it will cut you.. So that is what is happening to Maajid Nawaz...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #36 - February 15, 2016, 02:15 PM
    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 02:06 PM
    ^Whatever gives you a good night sleep. Judging from most of your posts apart from this thread,I won't bother wasting my time arguing with you.


    You are free to do that.

    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 02:06 PM
    You just argue for the sake of arguing

      

    That's the definition of making things up to support your arguments.  Well done.
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #37 - February 15, 2016, 02:21 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on February 15, 2016, 02:04 PM
    I have to say that I found it incredibly disturbing that his great ally Sam Harris wrote about the possibility of nuking Muslims in his book The End of Faith. What are the odds that an Islamist regime intent on destroying the West will come into power as a real state (not a rogue one like ISIS) and that this regime would manage to develop a nuclear weapon? What was the point of even mentioning this scenario that doesn't even seem feasible? It's as though the thought of nuking Muslims is some sort of wet dream of his that he ended up putting on paper.


    Sam Harris is clearly wrong with this. And I don't know if he retracted what he was sayings about this, but if not, he should.
  • Re: The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #38 - February 15, 2016, 02:23 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on February 15, 2016, 02:04 PM
    I have to say that I found it incredibly disturbing that his great ally Sam Harris wrote about the possibility of nuking Muslims in his book The End of Faith. What are the odds that an Islamist regime intent on destroying the West will come into power as a real state (not a rogue one like ISIS) and that this regime would manage to develop a nuclear weapon? What was the point of even mentioning this scenario that doesn't even seem feasible? It's as though the thought of nuking Muslims is some sort of wet dream of his that he ended up putting on paper.


    You know, I want to make a special rant here. Not about you, but about muslims hating Sam Harris in general.

    So Sam Harris mentions about the possibility of nuking muslims, if the situation is dire and they're at wits end. Meanwhile, muslims also defend grossly about what their prophets do, and Sharia ways of dealing with things. Like, in a perfect Sharia state, nonmuslims would pay jizya, nonmuslims would be forever second class and subject to the whims of their muslim masters.

    For most people who are neutral, this is like two sides of the same coins. Both sides are pure bigots. However, people are accepting of religion because it's seen as acceptable adaptation to put impossible restrictions like "but perfect sharia state can't exist, so it doesn't even matter." Muslims can't seem to realize that what they are doing, is exactly what Sam Harris is doing. Except, on both cases the bigots came out as the winners so they don't really care either way.

    Religions should be given the same restrictions as normal, neutral organizations have. It shouldn't be acceptable for religious people to hold bigot views BUUUUUT the perfect conditions are not met yet so it's okay to have this bigoted views!!!

    Yes I imagine this hypocrisy created a lot of exmuslims because if you're not having wet dreams about Islam, it's quite obvious to see that Sharia law is bigoted.
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #39 - February 15, 2016, 02:27 PM
    Quote from: Helaine on February 15, 2016, 02:09 PM

    Give an actual example from video / article where this thing happens, Nawaz tries to shut down debate by calling them regressive.[/quoted]

    I have been following his interactions on twitter and notice how he does that when he is being challenged and faulted. I can't be arsed to go through his past tweets but in case I see anything relevant as i will see one soon. I will bring it up to you.

    Quote
    Example of Nawaz thinking that bombing ME would reform Islam?


    Where did I say that?  Huh?

    Quote
    Like who?


    Tawakkul Karman(a noble prize winner btw),Amina Wadud,Ro Waseem,Iyad El-Baghdadi and many names if you search around





    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #40 - February 15, 2016, 02:27 PM
    Quote
    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 01:49 PM
    ............ There are real muslim reformers out there on the front line making differences and trying to make changes but ya'll don't give a fuck and care to know about them..................

    Quote from: nbhb on February 15, 2016, 02:11 PM
    Such as? ......


     Cheesy

    what kind of question is that?  What don't you understand?

    Answer  is "REAL MUSLIMS"   ... and they live in AMRIKA.. ANGEELAND,..... EUROPA....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #41 - February 15, 2016, 02:29 PM
    Quote from: nbhb on February 15, 2016, 02:15 PM
    You are free to do that.
      

    That's the definition of making things up to support your arguments.  Well done.


    You are a joke Roll Eyes
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #42 - February 15, 2016, 02:32 PM
    Ahh, Yezee, you're right. I will pay more attention next time... Smiley
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #43 - February 15, 2016, 02:33 PM
    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 02:29 PM
    You are a joke Roll Eyes


    I take that as a compliment even I'm not sure it was meant to be as such.  Smiley
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #44 - February 15, 2016, 02:34 PM
    Whatever rocks your boat sir. Smiley
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #45 - February 15, 2016, 02:37 PM
    Quote from: nbhb on February 15, 2016, 02:03 PM
    Of course ethnicity plays a part in someone being a suspect of Islamic terror. It is more likely for a Saudi to be involved in Islamic terrorism than a Japanese. Because in KSA you get more Islam and Islam is the religion most associated with terrorism. That's just a fact, the inconvenient truth, but still the truth. Have nothing to do with race sorry...

    What you mean by directly affiliated? Be more specific please. Being affiliated can also mean sharing some views about something as I said. Maryam Namazie for example is a communist. It doesn't make us here communists. Or others as Douglas Murray who was often sharing platforms with Maryam.

    And that quote of Douglas was made in a context as well, as for example shutting down Mosques associated with extremism. Even so it wasn't his best moment, but certainly a comment like that is not enough to make you far-right extremist.
    He said clearly Muslims men and he said in general, not all. And he is certainly speaking about cultural aspect. Sorry but you seems to want to drag Bill Maher there, just to prove you were right.



    If ethnicity does play a part then how does it have nothing to do with race? That's a contradiction right there. Besides, he mentioned people who "look Muslim" so it was about the way they looked as opposed to the country they came from. You may be OK with it but lots of people are not fine with being discriminated against due to the skin colour they were born with.

    I haven't got an issue being associated with communists but I most certainly would not put myself in a situation where I am associated with bigoted extremists who use dehumanising tactics similar to Goebbels. Did you read what he said after that? He wanted to make Europe unattractive to Muslims by treating them badly so that they would not want to come/stay here. The excuse that Murray made for himself was that he "was very very angry at the time"  Roll Eyes. It's because he knew that there was no justification for it and that it ripped off his moderate mask.

    He said "ask any woman who has ever dated an Arab man". Maher does not seem able to differentiate between Arab and Muslim.
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #46 - February 15, 2016, 02:44 PM
    differences and commonalities between Ethnicity and Race

    Race and Ethnicity., Bilological versus Social
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #47 - February 15, 2016, 02:46 PM
    Quote from: Helaine on February 15, 2016, 02:09 PM
    To be honest, Maajid Nawaz to me, seems to want to change the opinions of Sam Harris, Bill Maher, etc. Nawaz uses a different approach to deal with people like Sam Harris, like being their friends and then telling them that you have to deal with Islam differently, instead of using profiling, nuking or whatever extreme views they had. At least I have never seen Nawaz having these extreme views themselves, so that's good.


    If that is his goal then I wish him success, it would be nice to see a public figure who stands up to everyone with extreme views regardless of what kind of extreme.
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #48 - February 15, 2016, 02:47 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 15, 2016, 02:44 PM
    differences and commonalities between Ethnicity and Race

    Race and Ethnicity., Bilological versus Social


    Good point  Afro. But both are things that an individual has no control over and Islam is neither of the two.
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #49 - February 15, 2016, 02:56 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on February 15, 2016, 02:47 PM
    Good point  Afro. But both are things that an individual has no control over and Islam is neither of the two.

    Islam should not even be there., as any human invented religion it is nothing to do with ethnicity., it is to do with human.. human race..  

    No..no., individual Human beings who have freedom and fearless to express will have that control on both things..

    Because .. the race is Human race...  .. as far as  Ethnicity is concerned., true it will have control on babies to all the way until the age of 14..15..worst is 20.,If the person cannot take control means  that something else in the society is controlling him/her
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #50 - February 15, 2016, 02:59 PM
    Dear AGWD seems to me that you are very sensitive about things that could be deemed(but not necessary) as discriminatory. But, such discriminatory and unpleasant things sometimes can save lives. Which is more important for some, like me and others.

    You don't have any issues to be associated with communists? What makes you different from Murray then? Communism is a very unpleasant thing you know, many people died because of this idiology...

    You have made your own conclusions about Bill Maher and you are now stubbornly defending no matter what.  Roll Eyes We agree to disagree I think.
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #51 - February 15, 2016, 03:04 PM
    Quote from: nbhb on February 15, 2016, 02:59 PM

    You don't have any issues to be associated with communists? What makes you different from Murray then? Communism is a very unpleasant thing you know...

     

    well that is a hand waving statement without conclusive evidence .. So it would be nice if you could write some statements and examples of  why Communism is a very unpleasant thing nbhb..

    without checks and balances Democracy could also go that way...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #52 - February 15, 2016, 03:12 PM
    Hmm, checks and balances... That's hard with an ideology like communism who often says: do this way, my way, else you'll get what's coming to you... . Sometimes death...

    I have felt communism on my own skin, my grand mother died because of this and my grand father was jailed because of this. just that this is not the thread to speak about communism.
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #53 - February 15, 2016, 03:29 PM
    Quote from: nbhb on February 15, 2016, 03:12 PM
    Hmm, checks and balances... That's hard with an ideology like communism who often says: do this way, my way, else you'll get what's coming to you... . Sometimes death...

    I have felt communism on my own skin, my grand mother died because of this and my grand father was jailed because of this. just that this is not the thread to speak about communism.

    I am very sorry to know what happened to your grandmother  and grandfather   but this is the right thread .. In fact it is perfect thread, you know religions  infact are political ideologies with an extra dimension "god".. Iran/Shaw/Communists/Capitalists/Islam/Khomeini    is a perfect example of that .. In this thread also you will find communism coupled to Islam or capitalism coupled to Islam..   So it is a good thread
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #54 - February 15, 2016, 04:04 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBS-7UPq-rY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlZ3kBvEI6s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYLTo5LXkro
    ***********************************

    Quote
    Quote
    http://explore.georgetown.edu/people/brownj2/

    Jonathan Brown is the Alwaleed bin Talal Chair of Islamic Civilization in the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University, and he is the Director of the Alwaleed bin Talal Center for Muslim Christian Understanding. He received his BA in History from Georgetown University in 2000 and his doctorate in Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations from the University of Chicago in 2006. Dr. Brown has studied and conducted research in countries such as Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, South Africa, India, Indonesia and Iran. His book publications include The Canonization of al-Bukhari and Muslim: The Formation and Function of the Sunni Hadith Canon (Brill, 2007), Hadith: Muhammad’s Legacy in the Medieval and Modern World (Oneworld, 2009) and Muhammad: A Very Short Introduction (Oxford University Press, 2011), which was selected for the National Endowment for the Humanities' Bridging Cultures Muslim Journeys Bookshelf. His most recent book, Misquoting Muhammad: The Challenges and Choices of Interpreting the Prophet’s Legacy (Oneworld, 2014), was named one of the top books on religion in 2014 by the Independent. He has published articles in the fields of Hadith, Islamic law, Salafism, Sufism, Arabic lexical theory and Pre-Islamic poetry and is the editor in chief of the Oxford Encyclopedia of Islam and Law. Dr. Brown’s current research interests include Islamic legal reform and a translation of Sahih al-Bukhari.


    Brown was born on August 9, 1977 in Washington, DC. He was named after his father, Johanathan Brown. His family was Episcopalian Christian.[1]
    [2] He was raised as an Anglican and converted to Islam in 1997.[3] Brown graduated magna cum laude with a Bachelor of Arts in History in 2000 from Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., studied Arabic for a year at the Center for Arabic Study Abroad at the American University of Cairo, and completed his doctorate in Islamic thought at the University of Chicago in 2006.[4]
    From 2006 to 2010 he taught in the Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilization at the University of Washington in Seattle, and since 2010 has been Assistant Professor in Islamic Studies and Muslim-Christian Understanding in the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University.[4] He is also a term member of the Council on Foreign Relations.[5]
    He has written on Hadith, Islamic law, Sufism, Arabic lexical theory and Pre-Islamic poetry and is currently focused on the history of forgery and historical criticism in Islamic civilization and modern conflicts between late Sunni Traditionalism and Salafism in Islamic Thought.[6] His research has taken him to Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Indonesia, India and Iran among others.[4]

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #55 - February 15, 2016, 04:48 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on February 15, 2016, 02:04 PM
    I have to say that I found it incredibly disturbing that his great ally Sam Harris wrote about the possibility of nuking Muslims in his book The End of Faith. What are the odds that an Islamist regime intent on destroying the West will come into power as a real state (not a rogue one like ISIS) and that this regime would manage to develop a nuclear weapon? What was the point of even mentioning this scenario that doesn't even seem feasible? It's as though the thought of nuking Muslims is some sort of wet dream of his that he ended up putting on paper.


    The whole gist I'm getting from them is that if you oppose US militarism,you don't  support Israel foreign policy and you don't say no to refugees.  You are a "Regressive leftist" and "Pro Islamist" which I find it silly hence a waste of time to engage in so called "rational" argument with these dick riders here as it will only lead to circular argument as usual.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #56 - February 15, 2016, 04:56 PM
    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 01:19 PM
    Says the Sam Harris dick rider who uses circular reasoning in an argument or discussion and too thick headed to know that  Roll Eyes

    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 02:06 PM
    ^Whatever gives you a good night sleep. Judging from most of your posts apart from this thread,I won't bother wasting my time arguing with you. You just argue for the sake of arguing

    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 02:29 PM
    You are a joke Roll Eyes


    Directly to the name calling. And your criticism of Maajid is to say he calls people regressive for disagreeing with him.

    Maybe one day we can have a conversation when you've grown past the tactics of a petulant child.
    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #57 - February 15, 2016, 05:04 PM
    Quote from: justperusing on February 15, 2016, 04:56 PM
    Directly to the name calling. And your criticism of Maajid is to say he calls people regressive for disagreeing with him.

    Maybe one day we can have a conversation when you've grown past the tactics of a petulant child.



    Quite rich of you to say that when you took the first shot and now you want to play self righteous with me. Nice try son.

    I have already explain myself especially my reply to AGWD but seeing how you come from Christian background I don't expect you to understand shit.  People like you aren't fit to speak for ex Muslims.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #58 - February 15, 2016, 05:48 PM
    Quote from: Cato on February 15, 2016, 02:06 PM
    ^Whatever gives you a good night sleep.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz
     Reply #59 - February 15, 2016, 06:18 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 15, 2016, 03:29 PM
    In fact it is perfect thread, you know religions  infact are political ideologies with an extra dimension "god"..

    Yes. Which makes Islam so powerful. And dangerous.

    Quote from: yeezevee on February 15, 2016, 03:29 PM
    Iran/Shaw/Communists/Capitalists/Islam/Khomeini    is a perfect example of that .. In this thread also you will find communism coupled to Islam or capitalism coupled to Islam..   So it is a good thread


    I think Communism coupled with Islam is a very good idea. 
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