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 Topic: Unemployment Benefits in European countries

 (Read 5086 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     OP - January 18, 2016, 07:28 PM

    No, nbhb your logic is faulty. I worked in paying Unemployment Benefits for 32 years so I know something about it. I don't want to hijack the thread but I'm happy to discuss with you in a different thread if you're interested in starting one.


    Okay, why is my logic to pay benefits to Unemployment people faulty?

    Before you will tell me the UK system for this I just want to tell you that in my country unemployment people will get benefits only for 1 year after they get jobless. If you don't have a job you can't even have access to NHS. So if you don't work, you're screwed.

    Maternity leave: You will get benefits up to 2 years and you receive 80% of your salary during this time. So if you have a good salary you will benefit more. If you are jobless you will get nothing. If you return after 1 year you will also receive a good percentage of those 80%, along with your salary. Thus many mothers choose to go back to work  after 1 year as it is very convenient. After 2 years you will get a minimum wage for every children, but it is so little that if one parent doesn't work it's very hard to sustain yourself. If both don't work, it's impossible.

    So people have to work. Please be aware that I'm talking about healthy people here.

    Going to university is free. And students which parents have low revenues are getting benefits. My wife benefited a lot from this system. She would have not been able to sustain herself at Uni without this.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #1 - January 18, 2016, 09:57 PM

    "" Before you will tell me the UK system for this I just want to tell you that in my country unemployment people will get benefits only for 1 year after they get jobless. If you don't have a job you can't even have access to NHS. So if you don't work, you're screwed.""

    Where are you from?
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #2 - January 18, 2016, 10:04 PM

    Romania.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #3 - January 18, 2016, 10:05 PM

    Hi. Sorry it has taken so long to live up to my promise. I was out of the house and on my mobile when I posted the invitation.

    In the UK, for the vast majority, it isn't possible to live with no income; there is no possibility to grow/farm food or hunt/gather in order to stay alive.

    According to the Office of National Statistics data for 13 May 2015, 73.5% of working age people (age 16-64) were in employment, which is the best ever figure.  The UK will never achieve 100% employment.

    So, knowing the above to be true, we can allow individuals and their families to find ways to stay alive without an income and endure the consequent affect on crime and social disorder. Or, we can give them some money, which in the long term is probably less costly and is definitely more humane.

  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #4 - January 18, 2016, 10:24 PM

    As I wrote before, I think UK welfare system is humane and very helpful to people.
    However, Muslim migrants - as per my own experience - used the system to cheat and steal the money.
    I witnessed at the school the following types of benefits which I don't know the correct name:

    1- You have to work 16 hours per week to get housing from the government.
    2- Tax credit which is paid to families for their children who are cared at after school club.
    3- illness

  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #5 - January 18, 2016, 10:28 PM

    Is this the only consequent effect? There are people who don't want to work for hundreds of reasons.  Who aren't even interested in doing this. Aren't you paying for laziness as well?

    On what basis do you give an unemployment person money and for how long? How do you know that an unemployment person is looking for a job and he isn't content with his situation?
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #6 - January 18, 2016, 10:49 PM

    Quote
    1- You have to work 16 hours per week to get housing from the government.

    Not correct. The government doesn't "house" people in any way. Housing is the responsibility of the local authority but even they rarely actually put people into homes. People buy or rent their homes, mostly from private landlords. Some people (few) rent from Housing Associations. People with low incomes will get help with their rent in the form of Housing Benefit.
    2-
    Quote
    Tax credit which is paid to families for their children who are cared at after school club

    Anyone can use an after school club, even a millionaire.
    Tax credits are paid to people that are in work but on low incomes. This used to be for people working at least 16 hours (maybe your confusion with above), now changed to 24 hours.
    3-
    Quote
    illness

     
    People that are too ill to work can claim benefits but there are quite a lot of hoops to jump through to get them. this has nothing to do with unemployment.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #7 - January 18, 2016, 11:05 PM

    Is this the only consequent effect? There are people who don't want to work for hundreds of reasons.  Who aren't even interested in doing this. Aren't you paying for laziness as well?

    On what basis do you give an unemployment person money and for how long? How do you know that an unemployment person is looking for a job and he isn't content with his situation?


    Unemployed people get benefits for as long as they need them. In order to be entitled they need to attend fortnightly interviews where they need to provide evidence that they have spent 35 hours a week looking for work. They will be required to co-operate with certain interventions at 13 weeks and intensive interviews at 26-52 weeks. If the claim lasts 52 weeks they will be expected to do some form of "voluntary" work.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/365891/jsabws1-oct14.pdf
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #8 - January 19, 2016, 05:43 AM

    Rob what does the other 26.5% non-working people do? SAHP?
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #9 - January 19, 2016, 08:05 AM

    Unemployed people get benefits for as long as they need them. In order to be entitled they need to attend fortnightly interviews where they need to provide evidence that they have spent 35 hours a week looking for work. They will be required to co-operate with certain interventions at 13 weeks and intensive interviews at 26-52 weeks. If the claim lasts 52 weeks they will be expected to do some form of "voluntary" work.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/365891/jsabws1-oct14.pdf


    What kind of evidence you need to prove that you spent 35 hours a week looking for work. Be more specific please. I hope you realize that there are people who have no intention to work, as long as they get some benefits, so the idea that all unemployment people have good intentions and are desperate to find a job is utopian at best. How these people are identified?

    Also, how much parents receive monthly for every children over 2 years old?
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #10 - January 19, 2016, 08:27 AM

    In Canada when it comes to work programs and job searches these are assigned by you individual social worker. Confirmation from a manager is required in the form of a contract which is merely a signed statement that you applied for jobs X, Y, Z.  When it comes to hours required job searching a minimal number of resumes/application is required. At times a social work may provide a list of job openings that you must apply to. For example say there is a demand for clerks at local clothing stores. These stores will listed so you are required to apply. If there is a job shortage then the requirements will be more relaxed. It depends on the local economy.

    Granted Canada is not the UK. However some basic principles still apply. Sorry I missed the topic was specific to the UK.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #11 - January 19, 2016, 08:44 AM

    It is not specific to the UK. Please join.

    6 months ago in a team building there was A Canadian working in UK for like 2 years and two British colleagues as well. The Canadian colleague was expressing his view that the welfare system in UK is stupid, ineffective and encourage people not to work and that it will be unsustainable on long term. This, after he had seen both Canadian and British welfare systems. Our British colleagues agreed with him.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #12 - January 19, 2016, 11:38 AM

    Rates for single people and couples...
    https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/what-youll-get

    For children...
    https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit
    https://www.gov.uk/child-tax-credit

    The tax credits for children are also payable if you're in work and on a low income. Child benefit was introduced in the mid-seventies to replace tax allowances for people with children, so nearly everyone with a child gets child benefit.

    Evidence required...
    explore some of the links in this wikipedia article.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Jobmatch

    might help to read this too
    http://www.thesite.org/money/benefits/jsa-sanctions-9197.html



  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #13 - January 19, 2016, 11:45 AM

    Rob what does the other 26.5% non-working people do? SAHP?


    Some would be registered as unemployed and looking for work.
    Some would be working age and seeking work but not registered as unemployed, perhaps because they have an income such as a company pension or because their partner works and earns too much.
    Some might be unable to work because of illness or disability.
    Some might be carers that are unable to work or have chosen not to look for work. They might be looking after a sick or disabled person that needs many hours of care each week, or they might be married, looking after their own children, living off their partner's income.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #14 - January 19, 2016, 02:40 PM

    What about people who actively look for loopholes? They want to avoid working - with everything they have. What about it?

    How much % is that?
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #15 - January 19, 2016, 06:14 PM

    They'd be included in the "unemployed and looking for work figure", as would those earning money while claiming benefits. Since those people are uncountable there are no figures to give you.

    This might be interesting with regard to fraudulent claims. Putting those figures into perspective.
    www.theguardian.com/society/shortcuts/2014/oct/21/-sp-benefit-fraud-in-facts-and-figures
    Something like 1.5% of unemployment benefits are paid to fraudulent claims.

    I'll return to your question later. Run out of time.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #16 - January 19, 2016, 06:28 PM

    Quote
    There is always an alternative. To find a new job for example. Anyways, there is a thread created for this discussion.


    It's easy to just tell people to get another job but you must surely realise that the jobs are not limitless. For some people it is not that simple; for an example a lot of students cannot find part-time work when they have no qualifications or work experience. Even the minimum wage paying jobs will ask for a certain amount of work experience because they can. Living on welfare is not ideal, like I said before. I find it hard to believe that people living on benefits, unable to afford many living essentials are happy living that way and would not rather work in order to afford a better living standard.

    Just because a minority abuse the system doesn't mean that those who genuinely need benefits should be thrown on the streets and starved. That's unethical, unempathetic and will lead to wider issues of homelessness and extreme poverty. One thing I love about this country is that compared to others it invests quite a lot in caring for its citizens. I don't want a system designed only for the benefit of the rich while not giving those financially worse off a chance.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #17 - January 19, 2016, 08:21 PM

    You do realise that if the Government in the UK stopped paying welfare benefits, you still wouldn't stop paying taxes?  you know, because they still want your money, there are a lot of expenses, champagne, second houses etc, that still need to be paid for. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #18 - January 19, 2016, 08:50 PM

    There is always an alternative. To find a new job for example. Anyways, there is a thread created for this discussion.


    try telling that to your fellow countrymen who have been coming here resorting to crime. so the Romanian system doesn't seem to be working well either.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2882202/Police-warn-pickpockets-language-understand-Romanian-Sign-placed-Covent-Garden-Christmas-shopping-rush.html

  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #19 - January 20, 2016, 09:49 AM

    try telling that to your fellow countrymen who have been coming here resorting to crime. so the Romanian system doesn't seem to be working well either.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2882202/Police-warn-pickpockets-language-understand-Romanian-Sign-placed-Covent-Garden-Christmas-shopping-rush.html


    So that's why in our police annual report, petty crimes are going down. The guys went to London  grin12 And I thought the police has improved...

    There is no connection between our welfare system and what Daily Mail wrote in that article, trust me.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #20 - January 20, 2016, 09:55 AM

    You do realise that if the Government in the UK stopped paying welfare benefits, you still wouldn't stop paying taxes?  you know, because they still want your money, there are a lot of expenses, champagne, second houses etc, that still need to be paid for. 


    I'm not advocating reduction in taxes. Just spending those money on other social programs or on ecology or for improving NHS.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #21 - January 20, 2016, 10:40 AM

    It's easy to just tell people to get another job but you must surely realise that the jobs are not limitless. For some people it is not that simple; for an example a lot of students cannot find part-time work when they have no qualifications or work experience. Even the minimum wage paying jobs will ask for a certain amount of work experience because they can. Living on welfare is not ideal, like I said before. I find it hard to believe that people living on benefits, unable to afford many living essentials are happy living that way and would not rather work in order to afford a better living standard.


    Dear AGWD, I was myself jobless for 6 months and it wasn't easy at all indeed. But I had 1 year to find a job. Sometimes is not enough, I know, but trust me when you know you will have no income one year from now, you become quite desperate to find a job and being so, you will get one.

    There may be few people who are happy living this way, but there are many who are content with this situation. And if they don't have the pressure of having no income, they will remains so. I hope you're aware of this as well.

    Just because a minority abuse the system doesn't mean that those who genuinely need benefits should be thrown on the streets and starved. That's unethical, unempathetic and will lead to wider issues of homelessness and extreme poverty. One thing I love about this country is that compared to others it invests quite a lot in caring for its citizens. I don't want a system designed only for the benefit of the rich while not giving those financially worse off a chance.


    Empathy should be for disabled, ill people, not for people who can work. You have to use rational measures as well, otherwise in many cases you will be taken for a fool.

    Where do you find this system designed only for the benefit of the rich?
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #22 - January 20, 2016, 11:59 AM

    What about people who actively look for loopholes? They want to avoid working - with everything they have. What about it?

    How much % is that?


    Not really very many, though certainly there are some. When there is no full employment does it matter all that much if there is a handful of people that are career unemployed?

    Did you know that 40% of people making a claim for unemployment benefits find work within six weeks? 60% within 13 weeks, 80% within 26 weeks, 90% within a year.

    It isn't the unemployed person who decides to be long term unemployed. It is the recruiter who chooses who will work with the company. Long-term unemployment is down to being unattractive to employers let's look at some of the reasons.
    Ex offender...
    Someone that has been in prison is very likely to find It difficult to get work. Removing benefits from an ex-offender is likely to lead to recidivism. The cost of the crimes caused and probable imprisonment will far exceed the cost of benefits. 119k to put someone in prison. 40k per year afterwards.
    People with functional problems that are not classified as "disabled" might have, say, a skin condition or perhaps epilepsy that does not impact significantly on daily life but might limit the kind of work they can do. Should we remove income from such a person?
    Many long term unemployed people are just "odd" because they look strange and\or have peculiar body language. They tend to get to the interview stage of applications but the potential employers just don't want them. Is this their fault?
    Long term unemployment is, in itself, unattractive to employers. This isn't helped by demonisation by politicians and newspapers.


  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #23 - January 20, 2016, 01:34 PM

    Dear AGWD, I was myself jobless for 6 months and it wasn't easy at all indeed. But I had 1 year to find a job. Sometimes is not enough, I know, but trust me when you know you will have no income one year from now, you become quite desperate to find a job and being so, you will get one.

    There may be few people who are happy living this way, but there are many who are content with this situation. And if they don't have the pressure of having no income, they will remains so. I hope you're aware of this as well.

    Empathy should be for disabled, ill people, not for people who can work. You have to use rational measures as well, otherwise in many cases you will be taken for a fool.

    Where do you find this system designed only for the benefit of the rich?


    Like Rob has said (excellent post btw, Rob) not everyone is employable. Of course, people should be more willing to do undesirable work as opposed to not working at all but there are those who employers simply do not want; people with criminal records, the socially awkward, those who have been out of employment for a while, those who have never held a job so do not have the required work experience and so forth. These people are unlikely to find jobs within the timeframe of a year so where will they go?

    A system designed for the benefit of the rich is one which seeks to widen the gap between the rich and poor, or one which is determined to keep the poor down and ensure that the gap does not narrow. For an example the current Conservative government is trying to scrap the maintenance grant to ensure that children from underprivileged backgrounds do not have access to higher education. Changing the welfare system to one that does not take various potential circumstances into account means that people who have no other means will be forced to be homeless all because of a minority of frauds.

    A lot of people nowadays really do scapegoat those who are living off the state (usually not by choice). It's a convenient way for privileged people to detract attention from the fat cat tax dodgers who seem to be the only ones gaining a pay rise lately.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #24 - January 20, 2016, 11:31 PM

    I am not British or European and of course don't have the information or background as you.
    However, when I was in the UK I got familiar with the word " Benefits " with most people I had met.
    Most people means the MUSLIMS that I had worked with and lived with for one year.

    The first situation I got familiar with that word when I arrived to the UK and had to find a room to live in.
    The flat was rented by an Arab refugee on DSS.
    He is unemployed and still renting beds in that flat to get extra hidden money.
    Two years ago when I was in the UK he tried to claim benefits for illness.
    He is well but more easy money won't harm.  dance
    I still remember when we argued about his situation and why he behaved in such a way to claim benefits.
    His reply was that the British occupied our countries in the past and stole our money and wealth, it is our turn now to get that money back. HALAL HALAL HALAL according to the fatwa he got from a mosque in the UK.
    Of course it is a hidden secret fatwa not in public.

    At the time of working at the private Islamic school I got more information about BENEFITS.
    The first time I entered that school, it was very old and very dirty place, I didn't know why.
    The school was not fees free but you have to pay £200 a month to educate the Muslim children.
    Later I found out that - according to what I understand - if you are working until 5 PM or 6 PM, you can get money for your children for after school club.
    I think the government is paying %75 of the total money you have to pay for the school.
    Most of the parents were registered as self-employed and there was no after school club at that school.
    The headteacher issued fake invoices using fake bank account written on the school papers to convince the government everything is legal. Later I knew that the government is paying the money directly to the parents not to the school. They are paying %75 of the total invoice the school had issued.
    The headteacher of course issued the invoices with high amount.
    As per the invoices I got, it was about £150-200 per week. With little calculation, you will find out how much money they got on regular basis. It was like a supermarket ASDA or TESCO, if you come, you find whatever you want.

    Besides, when I paid the salary for the Full-Time teachers, they refused to receive money into their bank accounts.
    When I asked why, they said it is a big amount of money and can't be shown in their bank accounts because they got benefits from the government.

    Actually this is my information about Benefits in the UK. May be it is confused because at that time I was not interested in getting details or more information about that system.
    I see UK welfare system is very good. It is very good to help others and show kindness to them but people are misusing the system to collect more money.
    Money is the fuel of our life, no one can say I don't NEED money, all of us need it.
    But it is not good manners to deceive others by religion to steal their money and their kindness.


  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #25 - January 21, 2016, 12:22 AM

    Fraud happens, if people are aware of it they should just report it. There are ways of doing so anonymously.
    I agree that fraudulent claims are immoral but let's have perspective, you can't reasonably tear down the whole of the welfare state just because a few people abuse it.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #26 - January 21, 2016, 02:23 AM

     Cheesy Cheesy

    Oh god that really gives a good perspective about the mentality of the people from poorer countries.

    It's great how the benefit system works in UK, but it will never be implemented in current state of my country. There are already people who don't want to work, just stare at clouds all day every day. Play chess and pray. If they get money for doing nothing, they will do everything to swindle every single penny from the government.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #27 - January 21, 2016, 02:33 AM

    Maybe some of the people in your country would be better off, Helaine, if they could stare into the clouds, pray and play chess for a bit.  That doesn't mean they have to be unemployed obviously, but maybe they should have better employment rights, such as the right to enough time off to sit around and stare at clouds, etc. 

    There's more to life than work, and societies are not merely economies after all.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #28 - January 21, 2016, 02:46 AM

    Quote
    That doesn't mean they have to be unemployed obviously, but maybe they should have better employment rights, such as the right to enough time off to sit around and stare at clouds, etc. 


    That's already how it is... Professionalism, work ethic is really bad here... Meetings are usually late, Events can be as late as 3 hours in... Everything else is "Inshallah!! It will happen. Totally not my fault lol" Prayer time can total 2hours, 2.5hours free time with lunch... Work hour is irregular... Standards are low...

    Quote
    There's more to life than work, and societies are not merely economies after all.


    Well, it kind of shows. Community that doesn't take work + economies seriously, are failing left right and center. They can't compete in anything.

    I mean, I don't really mind since it doesn't happen to me, but don't ask for greatness when they can't compete.
  • Unemployment Benefits in European countries
     Reply #29 - January 21, 2016, 02:50 AM

    Well, I don't know what to tell you.  The country I thought you were from is completely different to the description you give, so either your government is extremely good at propaganda or I've mixed you up with someone else.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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