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Theme Changer

 Topic: Islamic freethinkers in history

 (Read 3039 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Islamic freethinkers in history
     OP - December 17, 2015, 03:09 PM

    Hello all,

    I'm new here, and was hoping someone might have a PDF copy of the following book:  

    *Freethinkers of medieval Islam: Ibn al-Rawāndī, Abū Bakr al-Rāzī and their impact on Islamic thought* by Sarah Stroumsa.

    Having read quotes from it in Jennifer Hecht's *Doubt* (a wonderful history of freethought throughout the ages), I'm really keen to get hold of the book -- a truly inspiring work for all ex-Muslims to read, I should think.  

    It seems someone requested this some years ago and there was a PDF copy floating around then (I tried to post a link to the thread but was not allowed.) 

    Should anyone have a copy, and would be kind enough to send it me, I would be HUGELY grateful.

    If anyone knows of any other works on Islamic freethinkers, from whatever period in history, I'd also be greatly appreciative for any suggestions.

    Many thanks in advance!  thnkyu

    Lucretius.
  • Islamic freethinkers in history
     Reply #1 - December 17, 2015, 03:28 PM

    Hello all,

    I'm new here, and was hoping someone might have a PDF copy of the following book:  

    ...................Sarah Stroumsa................
    .................!  thnkyu

    Lucretius.

    hello   Lucretius. welcome to the den..

    what?  .Sarah Stroumsa?  .Sarah?

    you read juice?  you drink juice?  No  Good  No good et al

    well sign in to the link and see whether you can download some of her works

    also this link http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=19495.0 has some freebies that you may be interested in...

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Islamic freethinkers in history
     Reply #2 - December 17, 2015, 06:41 PM

    Hi yeezevee.

    Thanks for the welcome, and for the link to Stroumsa's academia.edu account. I actually found that some time ago and downloaded some papers from it. Unfortunately she has not uploaded the book, however, perhaps for copyright reasons (and it's exorbitantly expensive to buy: currently £131.00 on Amazon).

    Thanks again!

    Lucretius.
  • Islamic freethinkers in history
     Reply #3 - December 28, 2015, 12:40 AM

    hello Lucretius...


    Thanks for the welcome, and for the link to Stroumsa's academia.edu account. I actually found that some time ago and downloaded some papers from it. Unfortunately she has not uploaded the book,

    well sorry to know that

     
    Quote
    however, perhaps for copyright reasons (and it's exorbitantly expensive to buy: currently £131.00 on Amazon).
    Thanks again!


      what . 131 what? ...  Lucretius. take that money and go to your nearest library on Humanities .. Many universities in many countries have that book in their libraries..

    the other thing to do is e-mail her at sarah.stroumsa@mail.huji.ac.il    .. I am sure she will suggest a way or even download that book on to the web...
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Islamic freethinkers in history
     Reply #4 - December 29, 2015, 04:26 PM

    well let us add this thought provoking article of  Amira Nowaira on  When Islamic atheism thrived  

    "It's astonishing to read about the freedom of expression afforded to Muslims in the 10th century, in contrast to our own times"..Amira Nowaira
    Quote
    Freethinking is perhaps not one of the strongest suits of modern Islam. For one thing, the list of books that have been banned for challenging prevalent religious orthodoxies and sensibilities during the past hundred years is disconcertingly long.

    Modern Islamic clerics and scholars in various Muslim countries are often highly selective of which part of the Islamic heritage to emphasise and bring to light. Out of the countless and varied sources from centuries of vigorous debates, commentaries and controversies, they seem to dig out, and revel in, interpretations that are hopelessly conservative or frustratingly and grotesquely at odds with the life of modern Muslims.

    It may therefore come as a surprise to many people that there is a long and vibrant intellectual tradition of dissidence and freethinking going back to the Middle Ages. The Islamic thinkers of the early medieval period expressed ideas and engaged in debates that would appear strangely enlightened in comparison with the attitudes and views adopted by modern Islamic scholarship.

    This is the basic argument presented by From the History of Atheism in Islam by the renowned Egyptian thinker Abdel-Rahman Badawi. Published in Arabic in 1945, the book was reprinted only once in 1993. It discusses the work of the Islamic philosopher-scientists of the medieval period and the way they upheld reason, freedom of thought and humanist values, while questioning and often refuting some basic Islamic tenets.

    Quote
    Although many of those thinkers, according to Badawi, did not attempt to disprove the existence of God, they lashed out against the notion of prophethood and argued against the privileged position occupied by the Prophet Muhammad and his followers.

    Most prominent among those scholars was Abu Bakr al-Razi (865-925 CE) who believed in the supreme importance of reason. He argued that the mind had an innate capacity to distinguish between good and evil, and between what was useful and what was harmful. According to him, the mind did not need any guidance from outside it, and for this reason the presence of prophets was redundant and superfluous.


    Al-Razi directed his most vehement attack against the holy books in general, including the Qur'an, because he saw them as illogical and self-contradictory. He also believed that all human beings were equal in their intellectual capacities as they were in all other things. It made no sense therefore that God should single out one individual from among them in order to reveal to him his divine wisdom and assign him the task of guiding other human beings. Furthermore, he found that prophets' pronouncements and stories often contradicted those of other prophets. If their source was divine revelation as is claimed, their views would have been identical. The idea of a divinely-appointed mediator was therefore a myth.

    Al-Razi understood the hold of religious belief on society, which he attributed to several factors. Firstly, systems of beliefs spread mainly through the human propensity for imitating and copying others. Secondly, religion's popularity rested on the close alliance between clerics and political rulers. The clerics often used this alliance to impose their own personal beliefs on people by force whenever the power of persuasion failed. Thirdly, the lavish and imposing character of the attire of religious men contributed to the high regard in which they were held by common people. Lastly, with the passage of time religious ideas became so familiar that they turned almost into deep-seated instincts that were no longer questioned.

    In examining this chapter of Islamic history, regardless of the validity or otherwise of the views expressed, one cannot help feel amazed at the fact that the Islamic thinkers of the 10th century had the freedom to discuss and publish their "unorthodox" ideas, while the Islamic world now cannot, or will not, deal with any form of intellectual dissent. It might be reasonable to suggest then that the problem of Islam does not lie in inherited texts and traditions, but in interpretation. The Islamic heritage, like its Christian counterpart, is made up of a huge body of commentaries and interpretations that were produced in various periods of history to address problems specific to their age. We need to remember that the Christian scriptures have not changed since the middle ages. It was in the name of these very texts that innumerable so-called heretics were burnt at the stake.

    There is little doubt that Islamic scholars have the task and the responsibility to review tradition and re-emphasise the human values of tolerance and freedom of thought. They do not have to look far for these values. All they are required to do is to reach deep into their own cultural coffers to retrieve the pearls and discard the dregs.


    well when BABOONS become preachers and rulers using so-called religion., it doesn't matter what is written in their respective books , and it doesn't matter what was there in their  history .. What all matters is "who are the rulers and who are the preachers.."

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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