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 Topic: Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America

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  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #840 - March 03, 2017, 09:58 PM

    No it doesn't as Bakunin has had his view develop over time nor does it explain Cato's own view rather it only shows the views of Bakunin. Should I also include the radical anti-semantic views of Bakunin as a view Cato holds? After all such views are part of his political philosophy (Using SOAS's argument here). Is Cato anti-semantic? What about the type of violence endorsed by Bakunin? Does this mean Cato also endorses said violence? This is what happens when you name drop as if it explains anything in details.

    Bakunin was a transitional figure whose views moved over time from a kind of pan-Slavic nationalism to an early version of anarchism. Some of his views remained problematic - this has sometimes been glossed over and I'd agree that they should be acknowledged. However it's unlikely that you'd find anyone quoting Bakunin with approval who endorsed his earlier nationalism or his anti-semitic statements, and to me it seems a reasonable assumption that they wouldn't.

    Quote from: bogart
    As for Gal's ideas of Marxism I do not agree with all claims of socialism being Marxist in origin.

    I agree with you on this.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #841 - March 03, 2017, 11:50 PM

    Are you seriously that dense to type this nonsense? Because you are just ripping everything out of context. We are talking about Anarchism here but hey go ahead and talk about how violent  and anti-semitic Bakunin was and brush aside his views on authority and hierarchy,and I'm not implying thay i endorsed all his views that he expressed in his lifetime.


    You missed my point that merely dropping a name does not explain what views you may hold in part or whole. Hence why I spun out views that you were more likely object to hammer home my point. I wanted you to point out specifics as my first request fell on deaf ears. I guess the only way to get you to provide anything is to antagonize you.

    Quote
    It's not a grand claim if you are open minded but I guess that's what happen when one is too cynical


    Nice slogan. Lacks substance. I can easily retort that you have opened your mind so much you have become divorced from reality. Neither make an argument.

     
    Quote
    Then you are either blatantly ignorant of the history and how it still currently relevant or you are being in super denial.


    No I pointed out your 80% eliminated is a claim from thin air which does not take into account deaths by disease, destruction of culture, force integration, deportation, breaking up of families, etc which not all result in death of a person but death of an identity. There is also general breeding to account for as those that assimilated by force or choice merged with existing and future colonist creating a new type of person . You also ignore that there were conflicts that did result in deaths as well. For example various Natives siding with warring colonial powers. I denied the term you used as it was sloppy as it lays blame far to widely covering causes that have no human intent while also ignoring that some could have willingly made a choice adapt or adopt to the Europeans.

    Quote
    I can't argue with such type that is going to deny


    Strawman excuse. I denied the term you used as it lack details.

    Quote
    or downplay a genocides that took place and whitewash it with fancy words like "cultural genocide".


    Strawman again. I pointed out cultural genocide was obvious as many of these cultures no longer exist. It was not a replacement term but part of what actually happened.

  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #842 - March 03, 2017, 11:56 PM

    Bakunin was a transitional figure whose views moved over time from a kind of pan-Slavic nationalism to an early version of anarchism. Some of his views remained problematic - this has sometimes been glossed over and I'd agree that they should be acknowledged. However it's unlikely that you'd find anyone quoting Bakunin with approval who endorsed his earlier nationalism or his anti-semitic statements, and to me it seems a reasonable assumption that they wouldn't.


    No political theory is immune to weaknesses.

    My point was to get Cato to explain some of his views outside of his discussion with Gal over Marxism. If Cato or your took notice I formed my points as example then a question /repeat. I wanted clarification not a tangent I received.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #843 - March 04, 2017, 01:25 AM


    You need to get into some debates with schizo then, for a rollicking good time. Grin

    Miss him. :(




    Ameen.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #844 - March 04, 2017, 06:03 AM

    Ok so apparently my description of Social Marxism and the distinction between Marxism and Social Marxism was unclear. Allow me to expand on that concept.

    Social Marxism is to Marxism as Social Darwinism is to Darwinian evolution; that is to say, it is a misappropriation of the labels and structures of Marxism to encompass a domain to which they do not apply. By Social Darwinism, I mean the concept that the working class are poor because they are inherently inferior and less fit to compete in the realm of politics and finances, and that giving them financial or social aid will only serve to encourage them to breed more like them. Where Darwinian evolution explains the appearance of species by means of survival of the fittest, Social Darwinism explains the appearance of class by means of procreation of the weak-minded and strong-minded, intelligent and stupid.

    Social Marxism is not concerned primarily with the redistribution of wealth. That is a secondary concern to the distribution of social power; they believe that by more evenly distributing power, the wealth will redistribute itself. Social power is a somewhat nebulous concept; it's difficult to get an exact definition from the people who are framing the concept themselves. Social Marxists generally believe in a hierarchy of oppression based on their intersecting identities. If I was asked by someone who believed in the concept to produce a formulation of power in their worldview, I think I would describe it thusly:

    Quote
    Power is not directly connected to wealth. Wealth is a a function of power; that is to say, those with power will find it easier to achieve wealth. Power is directly connected to whiteness and masculinity. People who are white or can pass as white and who are male or can pass as male have inherent privileges within society, owing to nothing more than their perceived whiteness, sexuality, and gender identity. As a result of this, women, people of color and people of minority sexual orientations find it more difficult to succeed socially and financially, because they hold less power. To redistribute power, white men must be denied positions of power, such as jobs in media, jobs in government, jobs in management roles, and jobs in the police force and judicial system (where they can literally police black bodies). Because society is ruled by a cis white hetero capitalist patriarchy, and the white man is unwilling to give his power away, we must take it from them by force. This use is justified by the oppression [I don't know how to define this in their worldview] we are suffering as a direct result of their power.


    That's why when Social Marxists march, they leave graffiti such as "Liberals get the bullet too". Although liberals may align with many of the concepts of Marxism as originally spelled out and consistently vote in favor of what would traditionally be seen as "socialist" options, such as a more even distribution of wealth, more socialization of public services such as the health service or increased public transportation, etc., they are not Social Marxists. Liberals believe that power is a function of wealth; Social Marxists believe that wealth is a function of power. Liberals believe that offering people freedom of choice and freedom from laws interfering with their ability to choose where they can go and what they can do will result in them making choices that will earn them wealth and by extension, power. Social Marxists believe that while white men have power, no other group can ever have wealth or true choice. Liberals believe that by reducing the cost (generally by socializing the production) of services geared towards social well-being, power will be evenly distributed from the "haves" to the "have nots", allowing the "have nots" the social mobility to either enter the ranks of the "haves" or at least be treated as equals by the "haves." Social Marxists believe that by redistributing power, the "have nots" will become the "haves", and in a few decades or centuries, when the balance of power has been in their hands for some time, they can reconsider the position of the white man in society.

    The goals of Social Marxism do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of liberals. Social Marxism, instead of attempting to equalize the distribution of wealth via socializing the means of production, intends to equalize the distribution of power via the means of destroying "cis white hetero capitalist patriarchy", or some variation of that group.

    Social Marxism is inherently a radical ideology that will only lead to radicalization and by extension, violence. They have no path to compromise in their ideology. They have no path to shared power. A black president, a female prime minister, women in the legislature, an equal representation of men and women in cabinets, none of these are, in their minds, truly representative of shared power. A white man can be, at best, an ally. He can never be an equal. He can never be a "true feminist", his life can never hold value unless he were to give it up for the cause of ending white power, he can never be anything more than a trained dog.

    That's why the immediate demand is violence and the only tactic on offer is violence and intimidation. Intimidation doesn't just refer to physical intimidation, although it often involves that; it also refers to things like online bullying and harassment; calling one's employer to complain about their views; having people step down from their positions of power by means of protests and media witch hunts; denying white men or people they believe to be white men entry to their spaces (whether digital or physical) on the grounds that they create an unsafe environment; accusations of racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, or some combination of these labels; calls for boycotts and no-platforming; and a variety of other tactics we have seen used in recent months.

    Hopefully this sufficiently clarified what I mean by Social Marxism and who and what and I intend to use the term to refer to. As for the origins of the term, I think I heard someone else use it but I'm in the somewhat psychotic part of my depressive episode, and sometimes when I get like this I attribute my ideas and thoughts to other people, so I may have accidentally coined it. When I get like this it's often like being an oracle from the past--I hear thoughts in my head as if in another person's voice, but it's not an auditory hallucination, I'm aware that I'm thinking about the thing being said instead of simply hearing it said--and while the symptoms aren't as bad right now because of my medications, I'm still in a bit of a haze and feel more divorced from my brain and thoughts than usual.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #845 - March 04, 2017, 06:33 AM


    I don't argue with people that employ  semantic arguments to defend themselves  but if that's your style then I will keep that in mind. Types like you don't fool me with that nonsense



    There is a difference between attempting to qualify broad generalizations with more nuanced approaches and simply using an argument by verbosity. I seen no reason to apologize for the fact that the dictionary and encyclopedia were the only non-fiction writings available to me as a child. I see no reason to apologize for the fact that I taught myself to read and by extension speak and write, with specificity and verbosity based on that fact. So sorry, not sorry.

    inb4 "hurr durr im too nuanced for you--weak*

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #846 - March 04, 2017, 07:36 AM

    You missed my point that merely dropping a name does not explain what views you may hold in part or whole. Hence why I spun out views that you were more likely object to hammer home my point. I wanted you to point out specifics as my first request fell on deaf ears. I guess the only way to get you to provide anything is to antagonize you.


    How genius of you! Afro


    Quote
    Nice slogan. Lacks substance. I can easily retort that you have opened your mind so much you have become divorced from reality. Neither make an argument.


    And i can say your cynicism has made you become divorced from reality too.  Tit for that

     
    Quote
    No I pointed out your 80% eliminated is a claim from thin air which does not take into account deaths by disease, destruction of culture, force integration, deportation, breaking up of families, etc which not all result in death of a person but death of an identity. There is also general breeding to account for as those that assimilated by force or choice merged with existing and future colonist creating a new type of person . You also ignore that there were conflicts that did result in deaths as well. For example various Natives siding with warring colonial powers.


    *sigh*

    Do i have to write a history book or thesis to explain everything, anyone that is knowledgeable enough about the history knows the truth.  But i guess a white man like you wouldnt accept that but rather dwell on the inconsistencies that will help him to absolve their crime just like how some want to absolve  America from imperialism. Disagree at your peril, i cant be arsed really. Like i said before you dont have to agree with me and i dont have to agree with you because i can see that we will never make a headway on this.


    Quote
    Strawman excuse. I denied the term you used as it lack details.

    Strawman again. I pointed out cultural genocide was obvious as many of these cultures no longer exist. It was not a replacement term but part of what actually happened.




    Whatever, I really dont care to be honest.  You can miss me with that buzzwords you use in your argument like "strawman' or whatever. Thats not going to change my views so go ahead and say im not rational if that will makes you feel better.  Dont think you can fool anyone with your "intellectual" charm and your wordy posts. I know your types

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #847 - March 04, 2017, 07:39 AM

    There is a difference between attempting to qualify broad generalizations with more nuanced approaches and simply using an argument by verbosity. I seen no reason to apologize for the fact that the dictionary and encyclopedia were the only non-fiction writings available to me as a child. I see no reason to apologize for the fact that I taught myself to read and by extension speak and write, with specificity and verbosity based on that fact. So sorry, not sorry.

    inb4 "hurr durr im too nuanced for you--weak*



    Whatever Tammy

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #848 - March 04, 2017, 07:44 AM


    Whatever, I really dont care to be honest.  You can miss me with that buzzwords you use in your argument like "strawman' or whatever. Thats not going to change my views so go ahead and say im not rational if that will makes you feel better.


    I think the reason you're being called irrational is because you're failing to back up your positions and opinions, not because you're disagreeing with others. I'm fine with people disagreeing with me. I consider myself a liberal, but Jakob is a communist and my friend Yousef is right wing. I don't particularly care what your opinions are, I care whether you can support them.


    Do i have to write a history book or thesis to explain everything, anyone that is knowledgeable enough about the history knows the truth.  But i guess a white man like you wouldnt accept that but rather dwell on the inconsistencies that will help him to absolve their crime just like how some want to absolve  America from imperialism.


    This is the "before current year" argument (claiming things today are the same as they were 200 or 1500 years ago) and the "educate yourself, shitlord" argument.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #849 - March 04, 2017, 07:48 AM

    Okay Tammy the genius You won   great

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #850 - March 04, 2017, 01:22 PM

    Did schizo also drop a name as if it explained anything as well?


    That was his signature, my friend. It's up to us to read up on every political and social philosophy regardless of obscurity, formed since the enlightenment.  Cheesy

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #851 - March 04, 2017, 01:33 PM

    Freedom of movement is a right based on what? Grand claim

    Crimes of the past do nothing to address the issues of the present. Taking note is important but in itself is not an argument. Beside anyone can draw an arbitrary line. Those natives displaced other tribes, whom displaced other tribes until we get back to the into history with no real records. Your line only goes so far back until you can find an identifiable victim within a modern context. Also you history is lacking as disease wiped out the majority of that 80% not all out violence and genocide. There was a cultural genocide no doubt.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_disease_and_epidemics#Disease_as_a_weapon_against_Native_Americans

    Also land displacement is an essential aspect of genocide, as we've seen even in modern contexts. Where do a displaced people go? In the case of American Indians, it would generally be west, but once again there are already other Indian tribes there. Its no accident that the least fertile, and least habitable area of the United States, namely the American southwest has one of the largest proportional concentration of American Indians. So, in essence it really was a "holistic" sort of genocide that played out over the centuries, not just cultural.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #852 - March 04, 2017, 02:20 PM

    And i can say your cynicism has made you become divorced from reality too.  Tit for that


    Which isn't an argument.

     
    Quote
    Do i have to write a history book or thesis to explain everything, anyone that is knowledgeable enough about the history knows the truth.


    A history which you are not informed about hence why I had to provide details you omit.

    Quote
    But i guess a white man like you wouldnt accept that but rather dwell on the inconsistencies that will help him to absolve their crime just like how some want to absolve


    Que the racism card as if it was an argument or relevant to anything I actually said. I am not responsible for the crimes of my ancestors. I can acknowledge crimes of the past and how this shaped the present. I never absolved anyone of any crime. Again I provided details to what I see as a shallow view backed by racism


    Quote
    America from imperialism.


    Duh.

    Quote
    Disagree at your peril, i cant be arsed really. Like i said before you dont have to agree with me and i dont have to agree with you because i can see that we will never make a headway on this.


    We could make head way if you got over your ego, shallow outrage and grand standing.

    Quote
    You can miss me with that buzzwords you use in your argument like "strawman' or whatever.


    You distorted what I said, simple enough. It is not a buzzword it is a term describing what you did.
     
    Quote
    Thats not going to change my views so go ahead and say im not rational if that will makes you feel better.


    Did I say you were irrational?

     
    Quote
    Dont think you can fool anyone with your "intellectual" charm and your wordy posts. I know your types


    You should let go of your preconception of everyone that disagrees with your use of language is some "type" of person, whatever that means. You cut off dialogue that disagrees with you, nothing more.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #853 - March 04, 2017, 03:00 PM

    That was his signature, my friend. It's up to us to read up on every political and social philosophy regardless of obscurity, formed since the enlightenment.  Cheesy


    No, really. He knew all the Left, he just couldn't help it.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #854 - March 04, 2017, 04:11 PM



    So? This does not mean all infections are done for malicious purposes. Also bio warfare in ancient from using corpses of humans and animals to merely knowledge that enclosure leads health hazards. It was a battle tested strategy that existed for centuries. It is still used today in the form of isolating military units from supply lines, we just do not use corpses as munition. Such tactics were used by many cultures as it worked, they thought differently than we do now and circumstances restricted by goals forced their hand. 

    Quote
    Also land displacement is an essential aspect of genocide, as we've seen even in modern contexts.


    No displacement can occur due to natural disasters, environmental changes, development of industry and infrastructure (dams and mines for example). Such as do not always end in genocide nor is the goal genocide. Forced displacement can also be done to protect civilians in a time of war
      
    Quote
    Where do a displaced people go?


    The issue isn't where they can go but that many of these places are not suitable for a large or even small, influx of people to sustain themselves. The land may not be arable thus unable to sustain people. The land may not be settled thus lack development to sustain people in the short term. Such movement forces a regression upon the economic and social statue of many people. For example a farmer being removed to another area is force to become a settler again. Many may not be suited to such a change as their skill sets are based on developed land rather than developing land.

    (This is putting aside the issue of displacement itself and focusing on the "where" point)

    Quote
    In the case of American Indians, it would generally be west, but once again there are already other Indian tribes there.  Its no accident that the least fertile, and least habitable area of the United States, namely the American southwest has one of the largest proportional concentration of American Indians. So, in essence it really was a "holistic" sort of genocide that played out over the centuries, not just cultural.


    Saying holistic is a stretch as policy changed as time went on as did the perception of various people. There was also other factors such as tribes siding with the British during the  Revolution which cause resentment of government and individuals. People like Jackson gaining power was a huge mistake, hindsight being 20-20.

  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #855 - March 04, 2017, 04:22 PM

    But i guess a white man like you wouldnt accept that but rather dwell on the inconsistencies that will help him to absolve their crime


    And you think they we should resort to blanket treatment. What you are suggesting doing is more or less race profiling because you are asking for a whole ethnic group or race to be punished based on the action of some criminals  that belong once belonged to that group. 



    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #856 - March 04, 2017, 06:23 PM

    Lol,you are more foolish than I thought but I'm not surprised,But yeah If that makes me a hypocrite so be it,I'm cool with that,I will accept the certificate with utmost pride.Thanks,Tammy.  cool2

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #857 - March 04, 2017, 06:26 PM

    Awwww you didn't try to lecture me on my white privilege, I am disappoint :( I'd written a response and everything. No use letting the response go to waste, might as well post it anyway:

    Quote
    Oh, they give white privilege to non-white people now? Sweet! The 4th is when my food stamps clear, so I was planning a trip to walmart anyway, I'll have to see if there's anything extra I can buy with my new white privilege!!  cognitive dissonance


    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #858 - March 04, 2017, 06:32 PM

    Grin

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #859 - March 04, 2017, 10:52 PM

    Actually white privilege does buy you extra at WalMart. They don't check your receipt at the door and no one follows you around.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #860 - March 04, 2017, 11:07 PM

    Actually white privilege does buy you extra at WalMart. They don't check your receipt at the door and no one follows you around.


    I literally watched a Hispanic woman steal a flat screen TV from walmart a few months back. I was sitting near the door; she looked over her shoulder to see if there were any security guards around and spotted me before she made a run for it, and I was like "hmm, I could tell her to stop or I could just glare her disapprovingly...I think I'll go with the low-risk option and glare at her disapprovingly. I'm not being paid to stop shoplifters and I don't care enough about walmart to do it out of the kindness of my heart." So I did that. The security guards were at the back of the store and didn't react quick enough to the alarms going off, so she probably got away with it. They glared at me disapprovingly when they came back in.

    Another time I was there some teenager girls who obviously had been underaged drinking and thought they were significantly drunker than they actually were decided to start stripping. That was...interesting.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #861 - March 05, 2017, 12:17 AM

    G
    Actually white privilege does buy you extra at WalMart. They don't check your receipt at the door and no one follows you around.


    After giving it an extra few minutes of thought (compared to just providing a counter-anecdote), I am thinking about how this could be quantified. I'm sure if you asked walmart corporate or a walmart loss prevention employee if they use racial profiling in attempting to reduce theft, they'd say no. So the only way to find out whether or not they do would be to send shoplifters of different ethnicities to different stores in different states over the span of several months, have them steal items of similar value, and then quantify the data. This would be extremely difficult to pull off because I don't know how you'd do it without at least some of your participants getting criminal records. I don't know how you'd be able to explain the study to avoid getting your participants criminal records without alerting walmart or the police in advance of your intent to conduct the study, which could obviously taint the results.

    The only alternative I could see to that would be reviewing a representative sample of walmart security tapes for a specific period of time and quantifying all the acts of shoplifting, all the incidents of employees following someone around, and all the incidents of receipt checking. The main problems would be: obtaining a representative sample of security tapes, determining whether or not an employee was following a customer or just working in the same area, and determining whether or not shoplifting occurred (especially if the items were too small to be noticed missing immediately or if they were in bags, which could indicate that the person actually bought the item but the security tags weren't removed or that they bought some items but not others). Arrest or detention rates wouldn't provide an adequate sample because it's possible that some groups shoplift more than others (instead of simply being arrested for it more often) and there's no way to separate that possibility from all others using the arrest data alone.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #862 - March 05, 2017, 01:27 AM

    Or you could take a woman with indeterminate features sometimes in ethnic clothing and sometimes in western clothing and have her shop at the same store multiple times in both outfits and weigh the responses she received from staff.
    To be fair, Kohls follows me around whenever I have a backpack, but that is not about ethnicity.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #863 - March 05, 2017, 03:00 AM

    -


    I can argue each of the individual points, and I disagree on most of them. At the end, I would say, adding it all up it was genocide. Not as obvious, compressed in time frame, or easy to pinpoint blame as something like Holocaust of the Jews by Nazis, but genocide nonetheless.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #864 - March 05, 2017, 07:15 AM

    Or you could take a woman with indeterminate features sometimes in ethnic clothing and sometimes in western clothing and have her shop at the same store multiple times in both outfits and weigh the responses she received from staff.
    To be fair, Kohls follows me around whenever I have a backpack, but that is not about ethnicity.


    Two problems with that: they may become confused about why the same woman is coming in with such radically different clothing styles, which would make it difficult to separate the confusion about that from profiling; second, it's too small a sample size, it could be (and is statistically probable) that there's a racist hiring manager or two in a company with literally thousands of stores, so to rule that out--and therefore to get useful data on corporate policy, especially for an international corporation like walmart, you'd need to have multiple tests in multiple stores across a somewhat longer time range.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #865 - March 05, 2017, 08:04 AM


     
    A history which you are not informed about hence why I had to provide details you omit.


    Lol. A genocide is a genocide nothing to be reductive about it

    Quote
    Que the racism card as if it was an argument or relevant to anything I actually said. I am not responsible for the crimes of my ancestors. I can acknowledge crimes of the past and how this shaped the present. I never absolved anyone of any crime. Again I provided details to what I see as a shallow view backed by racism


    Well it's obvious,isn't it? With the way you reacted which I'm  not surprised and all those details you provided doesn't downplay the fact that genocide has taken place but let's carry on calling each other racist then.




    Quote
    We could make head way if you got over your ego, shallow outrage and grand standing.


    Lol. With the your reactionary style of argument and looking for inconsistencies to a fault. How does one make head way with you.

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    You distorted what I said, simple enough. It is not a buzzword it is a term describing what you did.



    I didn't  distorted what you said,I tell it like how I see it. Simple enough

     

     
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    You should let go of your preconception of everyone that disagrees with your use of language is some "type" of person, whatever that means. You cut off dialogue that disagrees with you, nothing more.



    I'm very familiar with your style of argument which I find it frustrating at times particularly with the way you approach this one and its not worth engaging.


    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #866 - March 05, 2017, 11:14 AM

    Lol. A genocide is a genocide nothing to be reductive about it


    Wrong as genocide is killing of people where in this case not all the deaths were a result of killing or of a program to kill people. Look up what genocide means and how it applies. You are lumping together different acts by different people within different governments that commit horrible acts as if all part of a singular goal shared by many. It wasn't.

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    Well it's obvious,isn't it? With the way you reacted which I'm  not surprised and all those details you provided doesn't downplay the fact that genocide has taken place but let's carry on calling each other racist then.


    No I clarified eliminated.

    You brought up race by pointing out I am white as if my race had any relation to my point.

    Quote
    Lol. With the your reactionary style of argument and looking for inconsistencies to a fault.


    Reactionary? So merely disagreeing with your word choice is reactionary. Hilarious.

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    How does one make head way with you.


    You could try not to be a unmitigated asshole.


    Quote
    I didn't  distorted what you said,I tell it like how I see it. Simple enough


    Yes you did as you are claiming I am deny what happened which I never did. That is a distortion

    Quote
    I'm very familiar with your style of argument which I find it frustrating at times particularly with the way you approach this one and its not worth engaging.


    No you made up my argument in your head, nothing more. After based on your made up argument you claim that I am not worth engaging. Try again son.

  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #867 - March 05, 2017, 11:32 AM

    Did I say it wasn't a genocide? Nope.


    You were trying to say "Oh but it wasn't really a genocide, the disease too contributed in wiping the Native Americans so you can't say it was a genocide " You seem to want to absolve the Europeans from it.

    Quote
    Reactionary? So merely disagreeing with your word choice is reactionary. Hilarious.


    Call it whatever you want,you were being a reactionary git in response to the Genocide topic I brought up for some reason

    Quote
    You could try not to be a unmitigated asshole.

     
     Maybe you need to tone down the habit of looking for inconsistencies to a fault in every topic just for the sake of discrediting it or engaging in a reductive argument then I will stop being (insert random adjective) arsehole to you. You asked for it and I dish it to you. Boohoo!




    Quote
    No you made up my argument in your head, nothing more. After based on your made up argument you claim that I am not worth engaging. Try again son.





    Hey Old fart, We can keep talking in circles,make up accusations and engage in namecalling all day but you got your shit wrong for all I know. Beat it

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #868 - March 05, 2017, 12:01 PM

    Wrong as genocide is killing of people where in this case not all the deaths were a result of killing or of a program to kill people. Look up what genocide means and how it applies. You are lumping together different acts by different people within different governments that commit horrible acts as if all part of a singular goal shared by many. ...




    Here we go with the denial.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #869 - March 05, 2017, 12:28 PM

    I can argue each of the individual points, and I disagree on most of them. At the end, I would say, adding it all up it was genocide. Not as obvious, compressed in time frame, or easy to pinpoint blame as something like Holocaust of the Jews by Nazis, but genocide nonetheless.


    Except not all the factors are part of genocide. People dying in large numbers is not a genocide. Intent is required otherwise it is simply murder. As per you example of purposely carrying a disease to people is an act with intent which I have no problem calling genocidal. However such acts apply to specific people not a group of people that never existed as a whole. To call aboriginals of the New World a group is nonsense which ignore fundamental fact such as many of these group had zero contact with each other. On the flip side calling all Europeans one group is nonsense as well.

    What history show is that there were many instance of genocide which are separated by people, location and time thus not a unified event or series of events carried out for the same goals.  Even some of these are not clear on facts. For example Cortes purposely introduced small-pox to the Aztec in their capital as a part of his plan to take control of the Empire. This has intent to wipe out at least the people in the city and surrounding area. However an issue is was Cortes acts the catalyst for the outbreak? Cortes and his men had been in the area for months, had contact with a number of city-states and tribes under the hegemony of the Aztecs. He and his men had been in the city itself for some time He had allies among these groups as per the account battles with the Aztecs as part of his army. One should also consider the facts we now know about small-pox, it's incubation period and how it is transmitted. How many people were infect by small-pox by contact with anonymous Spaniards or by Cortes? This is an impossible question to answer. However many would rather take a the reduced population, 80%, as if each was caused by an act with intent. This exactly what Cato did. He took the reduced population, 80%, and claimed each one was a result of genocide.  
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