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 Topic: Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and

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  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     OP - November 19, 2015, 12:51 AM

    I was thinking of posting this in areas where Muslim men congregate but wanted to know what you guys thought of it. Care to opine?

    -------------

    Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka.

    Think of our Penopticon world. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=penopticon&FORM=HDRSC3#view=detail&mid=07979719D3363FED0DBB07979719D3363FED0DBB

    In our technological world, security of the person is relying more and more on technology. Authorities of all kinds have their satellites and cameras on in so many locations now that one can barely find a place to spit without three different camera angle shots being taken and a spitting ticket being issued by someone monitoring those camera shots and looking for your money.

    Annoying?  --- Perhaps. --- But great for security of the person and pleasing to our political as well as religious sense of duty and honor to women. Especially Muslim honor as Islam emphasized a man’s honor and duty to women, more than in the West. A Muslim man’s honor resides in his wife and protecting is paramount.

    The point is that the state provides security to it’s citizens via this technology and that more and more technology will be used. I.E., cell phones.

    It is incumbent then on the Muslim state to make it illegal to hinder any state or government from insuring the safety of all citizens, as honor and duty demands. Muslim woman should not be allowed to escape the safety umbrella that the state, in this case, Muslim men and Sharia, who must provide security of the person for Muslim women.

    Honor and duty to women demands that Muslim men forbid Muslim women from wearing anything that would reduce their security. Enhancing the security of Muslim women is a Muslim man’s responsibility, duty and honor. To not accept and indeed demand the highest security for the Muslim women is dishonor and a shirking of a Muslim man’s duty.

    Allah will be pleased when Muslim men step up and have their women toss their hijab, niqab and burka in the dustbin, as Muslim honor demands. A veil is what Allah likes.

    Regards
    DL

    God is a cosmic consciousness.
    Telepathy the key to contact.
    Our next evolutionary step. No choice.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #1 - November 19, 2015, 01:55 AM

    Another argument is that muslims are supposed to be modest, so in a culture where hijab, niqab and burka aren't the norm it just draws attention to you and provokes, wearing it is against modesty.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #2 - November 19, 2015, 03:00 AM

    I think if a man forbid me to do anything I would just do it immediately. I am very bad like that, now.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #3 - November 19, 2015, 12:43 PM

    Another argument is that muslims are supposed to be modest, so in a culture where hijab, niqab and burka aren't the norm it just draws attention to you and provokes, wearing it is against modesty.


    Fun fact - when I wore hijab, Muslim boys saw it as an invitation to stake a claim on me. Constantly. It got to a point where I was even terrified at school because one of them wouldn't leave me alone... he even got his non-Muslim friends to join in the harassment.

    Muslim men on the other hand saw it as an invitation to talk down to me and decide to tell me what I can or can't do right away. Once at a Christmas stall I was looking at some chocolates, and this guy said right away "they all have alcohol, so you can't have ANY of them!"

    I was so angry.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #4 - November 19, 2015, 02:01 PM

    Another argument is that muslims are supposed to be modest, so in a culture where hijab, niqab and burka aren't the norm it just draws attention to you and provokes, wearing it is against modesty.


    It provokes for sure.
     
    To you and I, I agree that there is nothing modest about wearing such garments.

    How is it against modesty though?

    I would likely say it is neutral and in modern society strange, but that is not anti-modest.

    Flesh this notion out for me please.

    Also, how do you think a right wing Muslim will see his honor and duty after reading what I put?

    Will he just ignore it out of hand as they do most reform, or will he see his duty enhanced by having his wife and daughters face seen on security camera in our increasingly camera heavy world?

    Regards
    DL


    God is a cosmic consciousness.
    Telepathy the key to contact.
    Our next evolutionary step. No choice.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #5 - November 19, 2015, 02:05 PM

    I think if a man forbid me to do anything I would just do it immediately. I am very bad like that, now.


    As it should be for all.

    But how can we help pus the average Muslim woman to also have this worthy attitude?

    Could you also indicate how you think a right wing Muslim man will read what I put in the O.P. 

    Let me repeat what I asked QSE.

    Also, how do you think a right wing Muslim will see his honor and duty after reading what I put?

    Will he just ignore it out of hand as they do most reform, or will he see his duty enhanced by having his wife and daughters face seen on security camera in our increasingly camera heavy world?

    Regards
    DL

    God is a cosmic consciousness.
    Telepathy the key to contact.
    Our next evolutionary step. No choice.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #6 - November 19, 2015, 02:10 PM

    Fun fact - when I wore hijab, Muslim boys saw it as an invitation to stake a claim on me. Constantly. It got to a point where I was even terrified at school because one of them wouldn't leave me alone... he even got his non-Muslim friends to join in the harassment.

    Muslim men on the other hand saw it as an invitation to talk down to me and decide to tell me what I can or can't do right away. Once at a Christmas stall I was looking at some chocolates, and this guy said right away "they all have alcohol, so you can't have ANY of them!"

    I was so angry.


    Typical male misogyny taken to the extreme. That is unfortunately the Muslim way. Muslim men are brainwashed from an early age and shaking off that superior to at least women feeling in a system that denies women and gays equality must be quite hard to overcome.

    It is self-gratification and we all like those feelings, unfortunately sometimes for immoral reasons.

    Please tell me how you think a right wing Muslim male will read the O.P. Will he just reject it or will he see a different duty for his honor?

    Regards
    DL

    God is a cosmic consciousness.
    Telepathy the key to contact.
    Our next evolutionary step. No choice.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #7 - November 19, 2015, 06:54 PM

    I think if a man forbid me to do anything I would just do it immediately. I am very bad like that, now.


    I order you to never treat me to dinner and a movie. EVER!!!

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #8 - November 19, 2015, 06:59 PM

    How is it against modesty though?


    If it draws attention and is provocative, how is it not? Though I detest the very idea anyway. Modesty is an inner quality and not even necessarily a virtue. Wearing something to say to the world "I'm modest" is immodest in and of itself.

    Also, how do you think a right wing Muslim will see his honor and duty after reading what I put?

    Will he just ignore it out of hand as they do most reform, or will he see his duty enhanced by having his wife and daughters face seen on security camera in our increasingly camera heavy world?


    I care why?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #9 - November 19, 2015, 07:13 PM

    Quote
    If it draws attention and is provocative, how is it not? Though I detest the very idea anyway. Modesty is an inner quality and not even necessarily a virtue. Wearing something to say to the world "I'm modest" is immodest in and of itself.


    I agree to a certain extent with your thought as far as the covering of bosom part but a face and hair is not primarily a sexual part of the body to me although a pretty face will be admired for beauty without necessarily provoking sexual thinking.

    Quote
    I care why?



    Apologies. I do not see this as answering what I asked. I am not sure what you are caring about.

    Let me repeat what I asked.

    How do you think a right wing Muslim will see his honor and duty after reading what I put?

    Will he just ignore it out of hand as they do most reform, or will he see his duty enhanced by having his wife and daughters face seen on security camera in our increasingly camera heavy world?

    Regards
    DL

    God is a cosmic consciousness.
    Telepathy the key to contact.
    Our next evolutionary step. No choice.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #10 - November 19, 2015, 08:20 PM

    Maybe he'll go on a hijad?
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #11 - November 20, 2015, 02:00 AM

    As it should be for all.

    But how can we help pus the average Muslim woman to also have this worthy attitude?

    Could you also indicate how you think a right wing Muslim man will read what I put in the O.P. 

    Let me repeat what I asked QSE.

    Also, how do you think a right wing Muslim will see his honor and duty after reading what I put?

    Will he just ignore it out of hand as they do most reform, or will he see his duty enhanced by having his wife and daughters face seen on security camera in our increasingly camera heavy world?

    Regards
    DL



    I haven´t got any experience with right wing Muslim men, but I have tons of experience with men obsessed with honor. The men I knew preferred the women in their life to stay at home and out of the public eye. Women out unaccompanied and uncovered were women looking for men.

    And also, I knew what was good for me, so I always did what I was told when I was married. I have excellent survival skills. I would NOT encourage rebellion among ¨the average Muslim woman¨. Because I want them to survive, too.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #12 - November 20, 2015, 02:03 AM

    I order you to never treat me to dinner and a movie. EVER!!!


    I hope you like kid themed restaurants, because that is where we are going. Then, a cartoon. You can hold the popcorn for the children while I take the baby to the bathroom two or twenty times.
    Thanks!

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #13 - November 20, 2015, 01:14 PM

    I haven´t got any experience with right wing Muslim men, but I have tons of experience with men obsessed with honor. The men I knew preferred the women in their life to stay at home and out of the public eye. Women out unaccompanied and uncovered were women looking for men.

    And also, I knew what was good for me, so I always did what I was told when I was married. I have excellent survival skills. I would NOT encourage rebellion among ¨the average Muslim woman¨. Because I want them to survive, too.


    I do not see much happiness in surviving as a slave. My heart goes out to all who must live that way because of being born in the wrong religion.

    If a man cannot trust his woman when he is not there, then I see him as the slave and not the woman his is oppressing.

    I see a weak man and not a man of honor. A man of honor would be one who says that his wife is with him by choice and not be force.

    Regards
    DL


    God is a cosmic consciousness.
    Telepathy the key to contact.
    Our next evolutionary step. No choice.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #14 - November 20, 2015, 01:28 PM

    .......
    I see a weak man and not a man of honor. A man of honor would be one who says that his wife is with him by choice and not be force.

    Regards
    DL

    hello DL.. well then you prove that you are NOT a man of god.. and not listening to god's words..

    Quote
    10 things a muslim wife must do

    1.) Use your ‘Fitnah’ (beauty and overtures of allurement) to win the heart of your husband. All women have the ornaments that Allah blessed them with.* Use the beauty Allah SWT has bestowed you with to win the heart of your husband. Dress up for your husband at home. Wear the colours and clothes that he likes to see you in and use makeup, perfume, jewellery - in short, whatever it takes to be attractive to him. From the early years, little girls have adorned themselves with earrings and bracelets and worn pretty dresses - as described in the Qur’an. Continue this tradition as a wife.

    2.) Be sensitive to his moods, feelings and needs. For example, don’t start complaining or burden him with problems as soon as he comes home; rather, welcome him and make him feel good to be home. Imagine your husband coming home to a clean house, an exquisitely dressed wife, a dinner prepared with care, children clean and sweet smelling, a clean bedroom - what would this do to his love for you? Now imagine what the opposite does to him.

    3.) Review the characteristics of the Hoor Al-Ayn (women of jannah), and try to imitate them. The Qur’an and Sunnah describe the women in jannah with certain characteristics.* Such as the silk they wear, their large dark eyes, their singing to their husband, etc. Try it, wear silk for your husband, put Kohl in your eyes to ‘enlarge’ them, and sing to your husband

    4.) Do things together or at least allocate some time of the day to give him your undivided attention. Be sincere in appreciating him, show interest in his day, his activities, his thoughts and opinions. Give him advice and comfort him when needed. Spend your husband’s money carefully and try to keep him informed of where his money is being spent. Remember not to spend large amounts of his money without his permission. Show caring and concern for his relatives as this is a sure way of securing a place in his heart. Never object when he spends on them, as this is a source of abundance in provision and increase in life span.

    5.) Joke and play games with your husband. A mans secret: they seek women who are light-hearted and have a sense of humour. As Rasulullah SAW told Jabir to marry someone who would make him laugh and he would make her laugh. Be cheerful and humorous, smile often, don’t feel shy to be affectionate with your husband and make him feel really happy to be around you. Express your love frequently and creatively, rather than waiting for him to do so first.

    6.) Be grateful to your husband. Remind yourself that it’s a tough world out there and your husband works very hard to provide for you. So whatever you do, don’t compare him to other men, unless it is favourably. Thank your husband constantly for the nice things he does. Let him know that you appreciate his efforts, not just through your words, but also your actions. This is one of the most important techniques, as the opposite is a characteristic of the women of hellfire.*

    7.) Don’t fly into a rage when you have a difference of opinion or he criticizes you. Stay calm, control your tongue and don’t challenge your husband’s authority at that time. Use your wisdom, tactics and powers of persuasion later to try to explain your point of view. Believe the best, not the worst about him. Be forgiving and accept apologies graciously rather than holding grudges and bringing up mistakes of the past. An argument is a fire in the house. Extinguish it with a simple ‘I’m sorry’ even if it is not your fault. When you fight back, you are only adding wood to the fire. Watch how sweetly an argument will end when you just say sincerely, “Look, I’m sorry.* Let’s be friends.”*

    8.) Always seek to please your husband, for he is your key to jannah. Rasulullah SAW taught us that any women who dies in a state where her husband is pleased with her, shall enter jannah. So please him. Simple things like serve him the foods he likes, remembering that variety is the spice of life. Try to eat together as this fosters companionship.

    9.) Listen and Obey! Obeying your husband is fard (obligatory). Remember that your husband is the head of the family and as long as obedience to him does not entail any sin, it is your duty to obey him. Show respect for your husband by not divulging your private and confidential issues to others, or by complaining about him to people or discussing your marital problems with those who cannot help you.

    10.) Make dua to Allah SWT to make your marriage and relationship successful. All good things are from Allah. Never forget to ask Allah SWT for the blessing of having a successful marriage that begins in this dunya and continues on - by the Mercy of Allah SWT into jannah.
    May Allah SWT give us the favour of changing what we can change (like ourselves), patience with what we cannot change (like our spouse), and the wisdom to understand the difference. Whatever truth is in it is from Allah and His Messenger, and whatever mistakes are from the shaytaan and myself; And Allah and His Messenger are absolved from it.


    Mashallah!!!...  Mash potato ...Janna..Janna... jazakallhoo Khairen... beautiful words!!!!........Ameeen!!!!  

    Any Muslim women around??

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BLh2BsZiOc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKj17UM1fxs

    DL..DL  .. So you are neither a man of god'swords not  Neither you are greatest..



    Snake... lol..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #15 - November 20, 2015, 01:36 PM

    hello DL.. well then you prove that you are NOT a man of god.. and not listening to god's words..


    Only fools believe that the words men have said of God came from a supernatural absentee God who is so unjust that he makes some souls inferior to others.

    If there was only God in the beginning, then all that is emanated from him and no parts of him are inferior to others.

    Don't believe me on this but believe one you respect. Jesus.

    Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
    If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
    Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
    [Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
    But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

    If you cannot see God in all, then you cannot see God at all.

    Regards
    DL


    God is a cosmic consciousness.
    Telepathy the key to contact.
    Our next evolutionary step. No choice.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #16 - November 20, 2015, 01:39 PM

    yeezevee

    Thanks for showing how you do not do unto others as you would want others to do unto you.

    Your religions has a reciprocity rule similar to this yet you ignore what you say are the words of your God.

    We call that hypocrisy.

    Regards
    DL


    God is a cosmic consciousness.
    Telepathy the key to contact.
    Our next evolutionary step. No choice.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #17 - November 20, 2015, 01:46 PM

    Quote
    yeezevee

    Thanks for showing how you do not do unto others as you would want others to do unto you.

    Your religions has a reciprocity rule similar to this yet you ignore what you say are the words of your God.

    We call that hypocrisy.

    Regards
    DL



    Only fools believe that the words men have said of God came from a supernatural absentee God who is so unjust that he makes some souls inferior to others.

    If there was only God in the beginning, then all that is emanated from him and no parts of him are inferior to others.

    Don't believe me on this but believe one you respect. Jesus.

    Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
    If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
    Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
    [Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
    But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

    If you cannot see God in all, then you cannot see God at all.

    Regards
    DL




     Cheesy Cheesy..

    i don't know what to write as a response to that DL.... but who is  Jesus?

    well i see the god everywhere .. I see it in the gross i walk and i see the god in the toilet i poop..

    That is where I put god and I say that is the level of knowledge i get from so-called religions and their scriptures.   I am not insulting god ..god's words.,  they are indeed good songs and sonnets of that time..

    As far golden rule is concerned.. I use all the time and i will use that until the end dear DL...

     with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #18 - November 20, 2015, 04:36 PM

    DL, I think that they won't like the OP and claim that it's their "duty" to enforce hijab and niqab. Such men hate being told that something which was kept in control to excuse them of blame for their actions must be done away with due to how oppressive it is.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #19 - November 20, 2015, 06:25 PM

    DL, I think that they won't like the OP and claim that it's their "duty" to enforce hijab and niqab. Such men hate being told that something which was kept in control to excuse them of blame for their actions must be done away with due to how oppressive it is.


    I hear you. It is hard to face up to ones responsibilities for ones self.

    Much easier to put it on who they say is not equal to themselves.

    I see such men as weak cowards and bullies.

    Regards
    DL

    God is a cosmic consciousness.
    Telepathy the key to contact.
    Our next evolutionary step. No choice.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #20 - November 21, 2015, 03:40 AM

    I believe the only answer is a reformation of Islam in itself. I've heard some liberal Muslims on some programs say that Hijab means, "Covering of the bosom only" and if they can get enough Muslims to agree with that, then that would be cool. But realistically, those hadiths will always be there to oppress Muslim women.

    As an ex-Salafi and having the long beard, you'd be surprised how many brothers "admired my beard." It was almost a step toward homosexual tendencies. I even had this guy twirl my beard in a slow sexual manner and say, "Masha Allah." It was uncomfortable.

    Niqab, Beard, Hijab all need to go. I've even seen the most liberal muslim woman in the world acting free, but because she covers her head, it still gives that impression that she's oppressed. And if she's giving that impression, eventually it rubs with her own personality. It just doesn't work.


    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #21 - November 21, 2015, 03:56 AM

    I do not see much happiness in surviving as a slave. My heart goes out to all who must live that way because of being born in the wrong religion.

    If a man cannot trust his woman when he is not there, then I see him as the slave and not the woman his is oppressing.

    I see a weak man and not a man of honor. A man of honor would be one who says that his wife is with him by choice and not be force.

    Regards
    DL




    Honor culture has little to do with trust. I don´t think you get it. Which form of honor are you claiming has to do with trusting a woman? Honor culture that I am familiar with is more about purity than trust. A woman can do no wrong and still ¨ruin¨ a man´s honor, through no fault of her own, through no action of her own. It is not about trusting a woman at all.
    ¨A man of honor says his wife is with him by choice rather than force?¨ Where is the honor in that? What a man says does not give him any honor at all, even in the chivalrous, Westernized sense that I think you mean in this statement.
    Misogyny is reinforced by culture, religion, etc. Islam has not exclusive rights to that.
    Honor culture is not religious culture. The more we perpetuate the lie that they are twinned, the less we address the issue.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #22 - November 22, 2015, 11:12 PM

    @three that is true. My parents are converts so thankfully the honour culture played no part in my life and used to be something alien to me. On the other hand I had the opportunity to learn a lot about it while living in the Gulf. To address the problem one has to look at the root cause, which is rarely religion, though religion can be used as a reinforcement.

    That's not to say that Islam does not have its own issues with misogyny, it clearly does.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #23 - November 22, 2015, 11:18 PM

    I disagree with the comments on this thread that banning hijabs or encouraging women not to wear them is "freedom". I felt very liberated after taking mine off and would never want to go back but on the other hand it's important to recognise that women who wear it have various reasons why they do. True freedom is giving every woman an equal chance to decide what to wear without pressure from either side. If some women find happiness and tranquility in the hijab while still being able to live their lives the way they want to, I would say that is quite liberating.

    Every woman is different so there is no one sense of dress that would work for all women. That is a false notion of freedom.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #24 - November 23, 2015, 12:50 AM

    Then at the very least, I would say hijab and niqab need to be banned at areas where it could be potentially dangerous.. Like someone wearing a niqab at a bank is something I would feel uncomfortable about because muslim men have robbed banks wearing niqab..

    You atleast have to have a face.. And for security reasons, women should show their full identity if need be.

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #25 - November 23, 2015, 01:48 AM

    @three that is true. My parents are converts so thankfully the honour culture played no part in my life and used to be something alien to me. On the other hand I had the opportunity to learn a lot about it while living in the Gulf. To address the problem one has to look at the root cause, which is rarely religion, though religion can be used as a reinforcement.

    That's not to say that Islam does not have its own issues with misogyny, it clearly does.


    Yes it is reinforced by religion everywhere that modesty culture or honor culture is practiced, by Christianity, or Islam, or Hinduism or etc. If it were not always tied to religion than no one could claim religious culture or religious right on it. It is hard to reform something tied to something that is considered a sacred human right.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #26 - November 23, 2015, 01:49 AM

    Then at the very least, I would say hijab and niqab need to be banned at areas where it could be potentially dangerous.. Like someone wearing a niqab at a bank is something I would feel uncomfortable about because muslim men have robbed banks wearing niqab..

    You atleast have to have a face.. And for security reasons, women should show their full identity if need be.


    Well, Islamic law does require that. Women are required to show their faces during financial transactions of any importance and during all legal transactions and anywhere that their identity is required.
    I am sick of niqabis claiming otherwise.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #27 - November 23, 2015, 03:18 AM

    "Well, Islamic law does require that. Women are required to show their faces during financial transactions of any importance and during all legal transactions and anywhere that their identity is required.
    I am sick of niqabis claiming otherwise."

    That is true and some niqabis will follow that law for their driver licenses.. But they make this political correctness case when it comes to airports or banks, etc. Some of them make a whole tirade of "What right does a man have to see me just because I'm at a bank or job interview!?"

    There was a funny youtube video of a niqabi saying that she was getting discriminated because of her niqab but she violated her "Islamic law" in order to get the job in the first place.

    As far as Hijabis, it's not that much of an issue for me as long as they don't think a niqab is superior.

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #28 - November 23, 2015, 05:00 AM

    I cant be sure but from what i've heard the niqab or Burqa is not prescribed or described explicitly in Islamic doctrine. The hijab yes is clearly an Islamic prescription,
    The direction that really should be taken is one that encourages muslim men to understand it's between the woman and Allah, what she decides to wear. Its not his business. Its an idea that comes from within the tradition and isn't innovating or really reforming anything. Although I don't imagine it would wash too well with some of the older blokes in our community.

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • Muslim men. Honor and duty to women demand that you outlaw the hijab, niqab and
     Reply #29 - November 23, 2015, 06:45 AM

    Hmmmm.,  interesting thread.. with a heading   "Muslim men. Honor and duty to women"....

    on that let me put this link from today's newspaper  from Jennifer Ashrafi  Love, hate and Islamaphobia in America_JENNIFER ASHRAFI

    and that comes with these pictures...




    Quote
    Jennifer Ashrafi is a broadcast professional and community advocate living in the suburbs of Chicago, Illinois. The proud wife of a Muslim-American and mother of two girls, Jennifer is passionate about social justice, equality and creating a safer, more understanding world.


    so read it all at the link and air your views on what Jennifer says...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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