What is your opinion of Loonwatch?

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- AGirlWithDoubts
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What is your opinion of Loonwatch?
OP - August 19, 2015, 04:18 PM

I frequent that website and to be honest, I have some issues with it.

I really like how it highlights Islamophobia in the European/American far right. These are things that affect most of my family members and some of my friends and my country does have an Islamophobia problem that needs to be addressed.

On the other hand they are apologists. They seem quiet dismissive of the prevelant bigotry within the Muslim communities (one of the reasons why I am here) and the casual derogatory things frequently being said about the "kuffar". Hatred goes both ways.

I just wish I could find somewhere that struck a balance. It is hard to find influential figures or websites which acknowledge this bigotry in the Muslim communities as well as the growing anti-Muslim bigotry. You get apologists like Loonwatch and people like Bill Maher and Sam Harris who make good points about religion but are apologists for US foreign policy and engage in generalising all Muslims.
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Reply #1 - August 19, 2015, 05:29 PM

I find them dishonest. I don't think they mean to be, their intentions do seem good, but they're just another extreme. They cannot distinguish between criticism of an ideology and criticism of people. Much of the time they don't seem to understand that if one twat who happens to be a muslim is criticised as an individual, it's just criticising an individual human being not slagging off all muslims just because they happen to be muslim. I've also seen articles both on loonwatch and islamophobia watch accusing people of islamophobia, and when it turns out this isn't true they never update it saying it turned out to be false or even remove it, they just leave it there.

Ultimately they are incredibly biased and just extreme to the opposite end.

Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on August 19, 2015, 04:18 PM
I just wish I could find somewhere that struck a balance.

I personally feel CEMB does that. Oh by the way, CEMB has also been featured on loonwatch if I remember correctly.

Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on August 19, 2015, 04:18 PM
You get apologists like Loonwatch and people like Bill Maher and Sam Harris who make good points about religion but are apologists for US foreign policy and engage in generalising all Muslims.

I wouldn't disagree with you about Sam Harris that much, but Bill Maher at least, every time I've ever seen him give his thoughts on US foreign policy he's very critical, and very much against war.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #2 - August 19, 2015, 06:02 PM

Quote
I personally feel CEMB does that. Oh by the way, CEMB has also been featured on loonwatch if I remember correctly. Roll Eyes

I've noticed that going through the old posts . I think it helps that many people here have Muslim friends or relatives. Also you understand when something is a generalisation and when it's the truth because most of you used to be Muslims. It's like that nonsense "taqiyyah" conspiracy invented by the right-wing.

Yeah, I think it was in an interview with Haroon Moghul (I think that was his name). They really do go overboard with the Islamophobia accusations. They have articles constantly defending Islam but have criticised several other faiths.
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Reply #3 - August 19, 2015, 06:06 PM

Quote
I wouldn't disagree with you about Sam Harris that much, but Bill Maher at least, every time I've ever seen him give his thoughts on US foreign policy he's very critical, and very much against war.

True but he is for the unwavering support for Israel. I am very supportive of a one-state solution in which everyone is equal and can co-exist peacefully but am very much against how he denies the occupation and defends the fact that over 1000 civilians were killed by saying "people die in war".
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Reply #4 - August 19, 2015, 06:29 PM

The thing about Israel is that they honestly believe that land is there's by divine right. It's right there in the jewish bible that god himself said "Yeah, that's your land, I personally am giving it to you". How do you argue that? How do you disagree with god?

A lot of the support the US gives to Israel is twofold. There's a very influential jewish lobby and if any presidential candidate wants to sit in the oval office, you need to show support. Then there's the Christian right who support Israel, not because they give a fuck about jews, but because they believe when all the jews are in Israel, Christ will return and usher in the end times.

The jews have been fucked for thousands of years, persecuted, discriminated against, raped and murdered for no other reason than being jewish. In the christian world because they were held responsible for deicide, literally the murder of god, which is ironic because if there was no crucifixion there's no salvation and we're all damned to hell. In the islamic world any peace with the jews never lasted, they were called devils and hounded, accused of trying to trick Mo, being cursed by allah, being the descendants of pigs and monkeys, etc. This culminated eventually in the holocaust. And you have to keep in mind how recent in history the holocaust is, and how much it's embedded into the west's cultural mindset. Plus there's recently been a huge rise through Europe in anti-semitism, usually (or at least usually reported to be) at the hands of muslims which feeds into this cultural mindset. Add in that the Palestinian resistance agrees the holocaust was a good thing, teach and sprout bullshit and have the complete eradication of all jews from the face of the Earth in their manifesto. It's helped to give a sympathetic view, this view being of an underdog that's surrounded by enemies doing their best to survive.

That said, Israel's treatment of the Palestinians in inexcusable and happily more and more people are waking up to this.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #5 - August 19, 2015, 06:50 PM

That's true, the Jews have had it worse than probably any other religious group. This is why I cannot blame them for supporting the idea of a country that will welcome them no matter what.

It really is ridiculous, my own cousin is an Evangelical who believes in the prophecy that Jesus will come back because the Jews are in Israel. She was very vocal about that a year ago during the Gaza siege.

I just hope that there will be a solution to the conflict soon.
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Reply #6 - August 19, 2015, 07:14 PM

Perhaps you can't blame them for wanting their own country. Who doesn't want themselves and their loved ones to live in safety. You can however very much blame them for their war crimes against the Palestinians.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #7 - August 19, 2015, 07:46 PM

Quote
Perhaps you can't blame them for wanting their own country. Who doesn't want themselves and their loved ones to live in safety. You can however very much blame them for their war crimes against the Palestinians.

Precisely
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Reply #8 - August 19, 2015, 07:56 PM

Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on August 19, 2015, 06:50 PM
It really is ridiculous, my own cousin is an Evangelical who believes in the prophecy that Jesus will come back

That prophecy doesn't exist, it's mental gymnastics to convince themselves he really was the messiah. Jesus, if he ever existed, never fulfilled the original prophecy, which i would imagine is why there are still jews around today instead of them all converting to christianity.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #9 - August 20, 2015, 04:56 AM

Just going to put this here.

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on September 29, 2013, 01:44 AM
If jesus fulfilled the prophecies then there would be no jews. They'd have all converted. 2000 years and they still deny him. If you have a bible, look these up.

Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to complete one of these, he isn't the messiah. Has to do them all. There's more things I can go into.

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on September 29, 2013, 01:47 AM
I mean you can always go into the christian defence that he'll do it in the second coming, but jewish sources show that the messiah will complete the prophecies outright. There's no concept of a second coming.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- bogart
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Reply #10 - August 20, 2015, 05:27 AM

I try to avoid sites like it. Islam watch, Rightwing Watch, etc.
- AGirlWithDoubts
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Reply #11 - August 20, 2015, 01:06 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 20, 2015, 04:56 AM
Just going to put this here.

I see, so is Jesus returning not a general Christian belief but rather one which certain sects of Christianity have?
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Reply #12 - August 20, 2015, 02:49 PM

It is a general belief. The issue is the verses about his return are interpreted differently. There are verses which contradict each other if taken at face value. It is hard to explain without going into theology.
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Reply #13 - August 21, 2015, 12:46 AM

I don't think there's a single christian sect which doesn't teach the second coming.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- yeezevee
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Reply #14 - August 21, 2015, 01:29 AM

well I used to visit even comment on loons at loon watch

Quote
On Ex-Muslims by As’ad Abukhalil (Al-Akhbar English)

There are so many obsessively redundant stories about Muslims and Islam. They are too familiar: stories about the veil, Jihad, the status of women, minorities and apostasy. Western reporters love to search and find a Muslim in the West who tells a story of persecution by Muslims. These stories are sexiest when the person elaborates on his new freedoms in the West and how he/she was not able to breathe until their arrival in the West. They tell about their past suffocation and how they could only read and enjoy “Lolita” in Western countries.

But the stories of apostasy still resonate. Westerners don’t know that apostasy laws were common at the time when they were promulgated in Sharia. The Economist is sometimes reasonable, but other times indistinguishable in its resort to lazy clichés about Muslims. The new issue of the Economist has a long article about “Atheists and Islam.” In the article, all the familiar clichés are squeezed in to draw a most dramatic picture that is worthy of movies about medieval Europe. It operates under the classical premise: that one story about one Muslim suffices to tell the story about all Muslims. And in singling out a story or two about Muslims in the West, the writers don’t know that they often fall victim to deception.

In the last few decades, Western governments developed asylum laws which permit a person to obtain legal status if she/he can establish real concern for safety in his/her homeland. I have served as a consultant to many lawyers and law firms in the West and saw the most bizarre stories by people who are desperate to stay legally in the US. Some people talk about how their tribes (even when “the tribe” does not even apply in Damascus or Beirut) will kill them, because they once told a cousin that they are secular. Another claims that his tribe – again – kills its members if they exhibit effeminate tendencies. And many have stumbled on the legal premise of fear of apostasy. They tell a judge (with no background or knowledge of the Middle East) that governments there typically behead apostates.

The Economist’s article belongs to this genre. It talks about how only in Turkey and Lebanon atheists can live safely, but only quietly. Where do they get this information from? This doesn’t seem to be from someone who know people in the region. I, for one, became an atheist in my teens. My friends and comrades in Lebanon (Lebanese and Palestinians) were also vocal atheists, and none of us faced persecution or even harassment for our views. There is no evidence for any such persecution. Many of my “Facebook friends” are young Arabs who identify their religion as “atheists.” And no one is persecuting them. The Saudi government is a rare exception in this case. But Saudi Arabia is often the exception, although it gets good press here in the US. TheEconomist says that eight states in the region have apostasy punishment on the books, but does not say that no one can find one case of implementation of the law in this case, even if you go back decades in time. There is a clear concoction of a dramatic alarmist sensationalism that does not conform to the facts.

The Economist in fact admits that “such punishments are rarely meted out” but does not admit that they are NEVER meted out. The Economistin this article befitting Fox News or the National Inquirer, even talks about “vigilantes inflicting beatings or beheadings,” but gives no examples or specifics. And the article assumes that the rise of the Islamists is adding to the dangers ostensibly faced by atheists, but fail to notice that atheists and secularists have in fact become more assertive and more self-confident. And in referring to the past, the article refers to medieval Arab and Persian poets and writers who were atheists, but then adds that “several were famously executed.” But such judgment has now been discredited by historians. We don’t believe, for example, that Ibn al-Muqaffa` or Bashar Bin Burd were executed for their atheism, but for their political inclinations or for their involvement in palace politics.

The shoddy quality of the article is further revealed when it concludes with an interview with “Ibn Warraq,” who is a right-wing Zionist propagandist who lives in the West under a false name because Muslims around the world – according to his tale – are chasing him because he is an ex-Muslim. But I have been an ex-Muslim since my mid-teens and I have not been chased by Muslims: not in the Middle East and not in the US, and I never hid behind a pseudonym.

The question is this: Why are some Western reporters so easily fooled, especially in cases when the lie and tale befits the paradigm of hostility to Islam and Muslims?

that is what As'ad AbuKhalil from California says...................

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #15 - August 21, 2015, 09:20 AM

Sometimes the best place to look for loons, if you're going to loon watch, isn't the asylum inmates, it's the people who think they're the observers of the asylum. Or to put it another way: They oughta check themselves before they wreck themselves.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
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Reply #16 - August 21, 2015, 09:43 AM

Quote from: gal_from_usa on August 21, 2015, 09:20 AM
Sometimes the best place to look for loons, if you're going to loon watch, isn't the asylum inmates, it's the people who think they're the observers of the asylum. Or to put it another way: They oughta check themselves before they wreck themselves.

that web site http://www.loonwatch.com/ is basically "ISLAMIC LOONS WATCHING OVER THE ANTI-ISLAMIC LOONS" but both are loons in some aspects... I am glad that website is there to expose LOONS of Islam and LOONS of Anti-Islam... and sometime they pick on atheists as loons .,

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #17 - August 21, 2015, 09:40 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on August 21, 2015, 01:29 AM
well I used to visit even comment on loons at loon watch
that is what As'ad AbuKhalil from California says...................

Interesting....what do you make of that? Since my parents are converts I am not from a Muslim country so I can't really relate to potentially being in danger for my choice of religious beliefs. I do however know a Jordanian girl who now openly identifies as an Atheist and she is living in Jordan, seemingly without any problems. I guess that for some people family are more of a danger than the authorities and if someone comes from a family that wouldn't harm their own flesh and blood then they'll be OK. So long as they are not living in an extremely conservative country like KSA.
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Reply #18 - August 21, 2015, 11:30 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on August 21, 2015, 01:29 AM
well I used to visit even comment on loons at loon watch
that is what As'ad AbuKhalil from California says...................

Here he is writing about Partricia Crone: http://angryarab.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/patricia-crone-is-dead.html

He's an anti-imperialist leftist and apologist. In reality part of this kind of thinking has been incorporated into modern Muslim and Islamist political views so it shouldn't be surprising that he doesn't encounter much hostility, as with Edward Said (also an atheist but not ex-Muslim - his family was Anglican). To be fair he can be interesting and he's no supporter of Islamism but he should be read with a bit of scepticism.

Which side are you on?
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Reply #19 - March 29, 2017, 11:19 PM

Loonwatch are full of shit, and of course they are censoring anyone who disagrees with them and has a better argument than theirs. No matter how respectfully you put your points across, you automatically become an "Islamophobe" if you do not agree that Islam is perfect, and that reform isn't needed.

You will never see one of them coming here to debate, it's because they know they are full of shit. At least Garibaldi attempts to engage, Ilisha is just a hysterical apologist.
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Reply #20 - March 30, 2017, 08:40 AM

Yup. And god forbid you say you're an ex-muslim. The response tends to be that you've either been victimised to the point you have to leave the religion, have been brainwashed by white supremacist ideology into hating "your people", or are somehow a traitor. And if you're a supporter of ex-muslims, you're basically Hitler.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #21 - March 30, 2017, 11:27 AM

It's funny how sites like that they can objectively analyze the Jewish Bible aka the Old Testament and not ask for scholars or look for context or translation to explain things, as well as how they can point towards anything related to Israel as supposedly being bad, but then when it comes to the Qur'an and Hadiths as well as Muslim countries with dubious human rights records suddenly every excuse comes out of the woodwork to not feel bad about them.

To be fair though if it wasn't for the Jewish Bible (which I regard as just a bunch of plagiarized stories from Sumerian, Egyptian and Babylonian myths anyways, coupled with self-serving tales like them going from slavery to being the Lord's "chosen ones", all in order to unite them into a potent force) I bet the Qur'an and Hadiths would've had far less crazy shit in them, assuming they'd even exist to begin with.

Quote from: ibn Bilal on June 13, 2014, 07:17 PM
Then you have the wine that doesn't make you drunk. Seriously, who's idea was that? It's called Juicy Juice where I come from, mofo, you ain't fooling me.
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Reply #22 - March 30, 2017, 11:38 AM

I just found this blog about Ilisha and her ugly tactics and hypocrisy. This guy seems very reasonable, it's a shame that he appears to have abandoned the bog. I would have offered to make a contribution.
http://contraloonwatch.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/loon-watch-contributor-llisha-promotes_76.html
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Reply #23 - October 19, 2017, 11:17 AM

Another pathetic Loonwatch article about ex-Muslims. Followers of that website are the same delusional idiots who believe that ex-Muslims are "fake" and out to make money. This is despite that the majority don't even make their apostasy known for fear of repercussions from their communities. And the author's "evidence" is a few examples of ex-Muslims out of potentially millions. Souns legit:
http://www.loonwatch.com/2017/05/exmuslims-that-hated-and-retained-their-hatred/
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Reply #24 - October 19, 2017, 04:39 PM

I have only seen one and a half video with Mona Walter (the subject of the article above) and she doesn't strike me as extreme in any way. Apart from being a christian that is (weirdo!). My fist impression was that she is rather soft spoken if anything. However, she doesn't seem to care about who she is seen with or is commenting on her Facebook page and lectures on islamism for just anyone. Including the Sweden Democrats. (I'd put them somewhere in between Front National and UQIP).
Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on October 19, 2017, 11:17 AM
http://www.loonwatch.com/2017/05/exmuslims-that-hated-and-retained-their-hatred/

Today Mona Walter claims that “all Muslims” are as filled with hate as she once was...

I had a go at translating the message from the screenshot of Mona Walters Facebook page that is quoted in the article above so you can compare if it fits the tone in the article.
Quote
Good morning my FB friends.
My earlier home town Gothenburg is, and has always been, a stronghold for sunni muslims with traditional islamic values.
The support for IS is positive among many, but not all. Successful attacks is celebrated, such as the attack against Charlie Hebdo and also the latest one in Copenhagen. 9/11 was also celebrated in a big way, I myself took part in the celabration as I was a muslim (then).
Journalists refuse to investigate this. The group who supports IS is often described as a mystic, secret, tiny fraction. I would like to state that the group in Gothenburgh who support IS is neither tiny nor secret.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article20427940.ab

The link is to an article analysing the islamisation of Gothenburg and the newspaper Aftonbladet is one of the biggest and oldest evening papers (founded 1830) in Sweden. Neither the article nor the paper comes anywhere near extreme. It's actually the paper the far right hates the most and is described as independent/social democratic.

She basically only describes the situation among Sunni Muslims in Gothenbug and not in the world in general. Gothenburg is where I live and the last I heard about the islamisation level here is that we managed to export the most IS fighters relative to our population.
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Reply #25 - October 31, 2017, 09:46 PM

I will read the article in a bit. Even if LW is right about her, what kind of hypocrites condemn generalising all Muslims but are quite happy to do the same with all ex-Muslims? When I tries to point that out, their admin team deleted my comment.
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