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 Topic: Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves

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  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #390 - August 14, 2015, 03:52 PM

    Did you not read my other post about trusting?


    ....I take it all back when I said there were so many intellectual ex-muslims on this forum.


    But I'm not an ex-muslim Ted, although I find your remark abhorrent and very wrong.

    What to get from your words Ted? Are you not trusting MO? You don't have a good opinion about MO?

    Or you have a good opinion about MO? If so what is the Hadith, what is the source?

    Because,  you see, you can't say that you don't know what to think or what is true about a man and in the same time blindly trust his revelations are from GOD himself/herself.  That will be plainly stupid, I hope you do understand this simply logic.
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #391 - August 14, 2015, 04:01 PM

    You sound very young so I'll be patient.

    Let's say you trust your dad with your life. One day your dad says the sky is red. DO you believe him because he's your dad and you trust him or do you go out and look at the sky to verify it?

    Let's say you are talking to a convicted thief. He tells you the sun will rise up tomorrow. Do you not believe him?

    The point which you don't seem to get is that sometimes you need to look at the what the person is saying rather than who they are. You get my drift?
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #392 - August 14, 2015, 04:09 PM

    You sound ................

    Quote
    Let's say you trust your dad with your life. One day your dad says the sky is red. Do you believe him because he's your dad and you trust him or do you go out and look at the sky to verify it?

    Quote
    Let's say you are talking to a convicted thief. He tells you the sun will rise up tomorrow. Do you not believe him?


    The point which you don't seem to get is ...............

    Ted you sound silly with those words ..........  What is that Reverse Trolling??  

    Ted   ...  ted  Stop this "Book says so hence I believe" attitude.,    learn to go out and look at the sky and look at the sun ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #393 - August 14, 2015, 04:31 PM

    Hey again, Ted.

    Before it gets lost in the rubble, I did want to get your thoughts on this.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=29151.msg832087#msg832087
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #394 - August 14, 2015, 05:11 PM

    I think you said you're a father. If one of your children died would your heart not break? Would your soul not weep?


  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #395 - August 14, 2015, 05:13 PM

    Hey again, Ted.

    Before it gets lost in the rubble, I did want to get your thoughts on this.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=29151.msg832087#msg832087


    The current agenda of the so called modern advanced world we live in today is to use science to refute the existence of God. Since science is something we can all reach a common ground on this is being used as a so called battlefield. Obviously certain believers are so blinded in their faith that they simply will not accept certain scientific papers since it questions their faith. The scientific papers are true and the believer who rejects them is considered delusional or simple not educated, etc. I on the other believe that science in no way refutes the existence of God and in fact it actually is evidence of God.

    The current agenda of the "media" is to use science to explain things as being "natural" hence doing away with the idea that things are created, designed and that we actually live in a bizarre reality. In our reality it's absurd to have talking ants and birds or for the sea to be split apart or for the dead to be brought back alive. And if stories like this are spread then a scientific explanation is often sought or it's simply discredited due to lack of historical evidence or witness, etc.

    So where science is used to explain the the existence of life, stars, planets, humans due to known natural phenomena (for example chemical reactions, physics, gravity and other observable  processes) I am simply looking at the science and saying the conclusions are wrong. People have been mislead or are being mislead.

    So at the end of the day if I succeed in showing people they have been mislead with things like the above then it may not be clear evidence they are look for the existence of God but at least it gets those things removed from the subconscious thoughts and they can continue questioning rather than thinking no more about it.

    Those who are intrigued about how life works are the cellular level or the phenomena of gravity or evolution may want to look deeper into it and find that it is actually very strong evidence of God.

    The reason I believe Mohammed was not shown miracles is because God is saying look at the miracles around you. You don't need to observe the sea being split into two or the dead being brought back to life or talking animals. Just look around you and you can scientifically observe miracles every single day. Every time a life is created that is a miracle. We can observe the atoms an molecules mysteriously organise themselves. We can observe stars and planets forming and we can see a dead earth being brought back to life. When Jesus brought dead people back to life all he did was make the atoms and molecules move again. A seed is dead by the very scientific definition we have of life. Yet it comes to life. We can test gravity and know for sure that we can't make dust form larger masses which go onto have their own gravity. We speak and think like no animal can.

    The miracles of God are there folks. Just depends on how you understand it. People forget that all the love we feel is given to use. Whether it's the love of a spouse, kids, parents, animals it's all given to use we have no choice in the matter. The same goes for the pain and suffering and misery. I think this is what throws most people off God. The question of "Why would God let this happen" or "Why would such a loving God create Hell and make people suffer eternally". Well I could explain but would you believe? The quick answer is that the life of this world is temporary. Be positive,  believe in God and do good and you will think that the good things of this life were so trivial.

  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #396 - August 14, 2015, 05:19 PM

    The current agenda of the so called modern advanced world we live in today is to use science to refute the existence of God.


    Proof?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #397 - August 14, 2015, 05:37 PM

    I think you said you're a father. If one of your children died would your heart not break? Would your soul not weep?



    I would be gutted if that happened to one of kids. My heart would break. I'd probably cry day and night. But my belief in God will not go away. My faith, my trust in God may actually get stronger. Who knows?

    We forget that it's God who created our souls and absolutely everything he does is for a reason. Everything. Here are my thoughts as to why death is so painful and why we love the way we do.

    The only relationship that matters in this world is that of the God the creator and his creation. This is the most fundamental relationship we have and everything else is far below this. God want's you to know how much he loves you. He wants you to live in happiness forever. He wants you to be close to him to trust him, to be at peace, to be in contentment and in bliss. Now our soul is kinda different. Our soul has been given the ability do things which God does not want us to do. I don't know why but that's just how it is.

    Now you are just a soul with no body and just a conscious with desires and an understanding of what is right and wrong, what is good and what is bad. Your soul has been designed with this behaviour. You have not been designed to automatically love God like you automatically love your kids and parents. You have been created so you have the ability to choose to love God from your own desire, using own will.

    Now as a soul you have no idea what kinds of emotions and desires you have since to feel them they need to manifested to you via a physical process ie the physical reality. So you are shown what is love when you are blessed with kids, parents, family, friends etc. It feels awesome. This is an experience of the emotion of love that God will have with his creation in the hereafter. Now God needs to let you know what existence is like without him. You will not be with God if you decide not to live in accordance with his laws (why laws is a separate subject). Being without God is like being without life. It's truly awful, it so much pain, so much suffering. How does God make this experience/emotion known to your soul? He makes relationships on earth and makes death to be a terrible phenomena.

    If you think about death logically from a believers point of view then it's not a catastrophic event since the believer has simply left this world and his soul is now with God. And on the Day of Judgement it will be brought back to life and live in eternal bliss. So death should not be bad. But it is. It's truly awful and it's been made to be that way. This is so that we can know how bad the experience will be without God and to also test us and to correct ourselves.

    The above may not make sense as I'm not great at putting things into words. But as someone said on here "It's deep bro...".
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #398 - August 14, 2015, 05:38 PM

    Proof?


    You?
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #399 - August 14, 2015, 05:43 PM

    How I am proof? I'm not going around to religious sites or places of worship trying to use science to disprove god. In fact I said repeatedly on the one on one match the things you brought up aren't evidence for or against and that it depends how you read the scripture. Believe me, I don't have this agenda you speak of. I could care less if someone is a believer or not.

    I would be gutted if that happened to one of kids. My heart would break. I'd probably cry day and night. But my belief in God will not go away.


    That wasn't my point. If you look on the one and one thread you'll see what I was replying to. Point being that we sometimes use words poetically, not literally. Obviously the heart doesn't actually break, but we say it's broken. Have a look at the one on one. See what I'm getting at?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #400 - August 14, 2015, 05:45 PM


    I'm assuming you are ex-muslim. Seems to me like you've been influenced by the modern status quo. Which is good in a way since you're not blindly following.
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #401 - August 14, 2015, 05:47 PM

    I am not an ex-muslim. I am their King. Says so right there under the name.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #402 - August 14, 2015, 05:57 PM

    You are the King of the ex-muslim?

    OK enough said. Peace and I will humbly leave you to ponder and reflect but I will no longer be discussing any more with you. I have said enough.
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #403 - August 14, 2015, 05:57 PM

    I'm assuming you are ex-muslim. Seems to me like you've been influenced by the modern status quo. .............


    And dear Ted I am assuming that you are a Non-Muslim never was a Muslim and you seem to hate those Muslim folks who take moderate stand on Islam..  And and you are  trying  your  best to put modern science in to  Quran so people of this forum will insult Islam and Quran.

    You don't need to do that., you don't need to put modern biology/geology in to Quran. , There are plenty of fools in Islam  such as this fool doing  such work..  

    But.. but you can objectively discuss all religions and their pitfalls to the modern society .. Please learn to see ., these so-called books that allegedly contain alleged god's words are books of their time  and they have some good words.,  some  bad words.. and some stupid words..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #404 - August 14, 2015, 05:58 PM

    "grade school understanding of biology" huh? OK let's see how much you really do understand and whether you actually understand scientific research and empirical evidence.

    So let's clarify. Are you saying that because tigers and lions both have 38 chromosomes this means pairs can form hence tigers and lions can reproduce? So if tigers had let's say 20 chromosomes and lions had 38 then it would not be possible for them to reproduce as in the example of humans and chimps?

    If that's the case how do you explain the existence of mules where they are the product of a horse and donkey who have 64 and 62 chromosomes respectively? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule






    Simple. The missing chromosome pair does not contain genetic information which renders the mule an unviable organism. The chromosome damage creates issues with reproduction. Mule/Mule offspring are rare. Also both donkeys and horses are of the same genus with only 1 ancestor separating each species. Where as chimps and humans are different a completely different genus separated by several ancestor species. This is a well documented mechanic of biology called chromosomal polymorphism.

    Seems like you ignored this part of my comment.

    Quote
    Difference in number of chromosomes but also functions contain within the genes of each chromosome. If genes are not matched up properly by chromosome pairs at different points the offspring could fail. It could be at a cellular stage, fetus, etc.

    Humans that do not have the same number of chromosomes as others can not reproduce properly. You are pointing out a genetic abnormality which is accounted for. Usually this type of condition is fatal. Also people that survive are not actually missing chromosomes but that their paired bounded together. Just as with the Human and Chimp difference, a pair bounded together to form a new chromosome containing information contained within 2. However your point is irrelevant as a rebuttal as this is a known mechanic of evolution./

  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #405 - August 14, 2015, 06:08 PM

    The current agenda of the so called modern advanced world we live in today is to use science to refute the existence of God. Since science is something we can all reach a common ground on this is being used as a so called battlefield. Obviously certain believers are so blinded in their faith that they simply will not accept certain scientific papers since it questions their faith. The scientific papers are true and the believer who rejects them is considered delusional or simple not educated, etc. I on the other believe that science in no way refutes the existence of God and in fact it actually is evidence of God.


    Wrong. Science does not deal with the supernatural at all. The mistake you are making is that science refutes certain scripture which contains information with is contradicted by science. The cause of this is that people are literalists.

    Quote
    The current agenda of the "media" is to use science to explain things as being "natural" hence doing away with the idea that things are created, designed and that we actually live in a bizarre reality. In our reality it's absurd to have talking ants and birds or for the sea to be split apart or for the dead to be brought back alive. And if stories like this are spread then a scientific explanation is often sought or it's simply discredited due to lack of historical evidence or witness, etc.


    Design is not a theory in science. So by claiming ID you are really literalist which hold views which are contradict by science. It is not a problem with science, it is problem with your view of religion

    Quote
    So where science is used to explain the the existence of life, stars, planets, humans due to known natural phenomena (for example chemical reactions, physics, gravity and other observable  processes) I am simply looking at the science and saying the conclusions are wrong. People have been mislead or are being mislead.


    You can claim it is wrong but you have not shown it is wrong. You are a prime example of the dunning–kruger effect

    Quote
    So at the end of the day if I succeed in showing people they have been mislead with things like the above then it may not be clear evidence they are look for the existence of God but at least it gets those things removed from the subconscious thoughts and they can continue questioning rather than thinking no more about it.


    Still waiting for you to show anything.

    Quote
    Those who are intrigued about how life works are the cellular level or the phenomena of gravity or evolution may want to look deeper into it and find that it is actually very strong evidence of God.


    God of the gaps, argument from ignorance

    Quote
    The reason I believe Mohammed was not shown miracles is because God is saying look at the miracles around you. You don't need to observe the sea being split into two or the dead being brought back to life or talking animals. Just look around you and you can scientifically observe miracles every single day. Every time a life is created that is a miracle. We can observe the atoms an molecules mysteriously organise themselves. We can observe stars and planets forming and we can see a dead earth being brought back to life. When Jesus brought dead people back to life all he did was make the atoms and molecules move again. A seed is dead by the very scientific definition we have of life. Yet it comes to life. We can test gravity and know for sure that we can't make dust form larger masses which go onto have their own gravity. We speak and think like no animal can.


    God of the gaps, argument from ignorance

    Quote
    The miracles of God are there folks. Just depends on how you understand it. People forget that all the love we feel is given to use. Whether it's the love of a spouse, kids, parents, animals it's all given to use we have no choice in the matter. The same goes for the pain and suffering and misery. I think this is what throws most people off God. The question of "Why would God let this happen" or "Why would such a loving God create Hell and make people suffer eternally". Well I could explain but would you believe? The quick answer is that the life of this world is temporary. Be positive,  believe in God and do good and you will think that the good things of this life were so trivial.




    God of the gaps, argument from ignorance
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #406 - August 14, 2015, 06:09 PM

    You are the King of the ex-muslim?

    OK enough said. Peace and I will humbly leave you to ponder and reflect but I will no longer be discussing any more with you. I have said enough.


    So you failed to provide evidence for your claims then you stop the debate due to something unrelated. Hilarious.
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #407 - August 14, 2015, 06:10 PM

    TED BUNDY OF  BIOLOGICAL GENETICS says

    Quote
    ToE of humans has no credible scientific evidence. I've looked at the evidence. Fossils and DNA is not evidence of human evolution. ..............
    ...............................
     Look up using DNA to determine ancestry of humans. It's pretty reliable to the parent level but from grand parents and beyond it's not credible..................
    ........

    Ted that is absolute rubbish rest is irrelevant nonsense

    Ted  what college did you go to get  your Bachelor of Science degree?

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #408 - August 14, 2015, 06:13 PM

    bogart...

    I trully wish people like you would live so long with children to pass your sharp skepticism and scientific understanding to the world.

    Don't support idiocracy Angry

    Or hope Audrey the prophet finds immortality sooner than later...
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #409 - August 14, 2015, 06:14 PM

    "Also both donkeys and horses are of the same genus with only 1 ancestor separating each species. Where as chimps and humans are different a completely different genus separated by several ancestor species. This is a well documented mechanic of biology called chromosomal polymorphism."

    Ok so now you are referring to genus. This something new you have mentioned which not many scientist know about. Interesting. And just how did you come to this understand? Do you have any papers to back this up?
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #410 - August 14, 2015, 06:14 PM

    Quote
    The current agenda of the so called modern advanced world we live in today is to use science to refute the existence of God.


    Who, specifically? And when do "they" all get together to plan this elaborate hoax?


    Quote
    So at the end of the day if I succeed in showing people they have been mislead with things like the above then it may not be clear evidence they are look for the existence of God but at least it gets those things removed from the subconscious thoughts and they can continue questioning rather than thinking no more about it.


    But what happens when you fail miserably? Should people then abandon their faith?

    Quote
    The reason I believe Mohammed was not shown miracles is because God is saying look at the miracles around you. You don't need to observe the sea being split into two or the dead being brought back to life or talking animals. Just look around you and you can scientifically observe miracles every single day. Every time a life is created that is a miracle. We can observe the atoms an molecules mysteriously organise themselves. We can observe stars and planets forming and we can see a dead earth being brought back to life. When Jesus brought dead people back to life all he did was make the atoms and molecules move again. A seed is dead by the very scientific definition we have of life. Yet it comes to life. We can test gravity and know for sure that we can't make dust form larger masses which go onto have their own gravity. We speak and think like no animal can.


    Again, your definition of a miracle appears to be "any processes Ted doesn't fully understand." And again, there were many more things on that list that the authors of the Quran did not fully understand: How does the rain fall? What is in the womb? Where does semen come from? What are shooting stars? Where does the sun set? Etc. You'll never prove the Quran right on those issues. It is written from the perspective of a 7th century believer. How could it ever be right?

    I honestly think your mission to defy scientific consensus will result in your loss of faith eventually. It's a pointless battle to fight. Even if you find loopholes or gaps in the science, the evidence for what has become scientific consensus is still far more overwhelming and convincing than the evidence for anything the Qur'an's antiquated perspectives could ever produce. (Come on man! You actually said in public that the geocentric model might be plausible!)

    So, anyhow, Ted, I'm pretty sure that beneath all the obstinacy there is a lingering level of doubt. From one person who appreciates spirituality to another, I'd recommend you don't try to fight that losing battle. If there is an all-knowing God, there is no way he'd want you to remain that ignorant in order to keep your faith in him.
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #411 - August 14, 2015, 06:15 PM

    So you failed to provide evidence for your claims then you stop the debate due to something unrelated. Hilarious.


    "King of the ex-muslim" need I say more?
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #412 - August 14, 2015, 06:24 PM

    Do you think I was being serious? That if you left islam I'd automatically become your King? Huh?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #413 - August 14, 2015, 06:25 PM

    You're my king, Quod.  001_wub
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #414 - August 14, 2015, 06:26 PM

    "Also both donkeys and horses are of the same genus with only 1 ancestor separating each species. Where as chimps and humans are different a completely different genus separated by several ancestor species. This is a well documented mechanic of biology called chromosomal polymorphism."

    Ok so now you are referring to genus. This something new you have mentioned which not many scientist know about. Interesting. And just how did you come to this understand? Do you have any papers to back this up?


    It is not something new at all. You didn't read my posts

    Quote
    Yes similarity in chromosomes, contains DNA itself, allows for different species of the same genus to mate.


    Go to a local college's book store, ask for pr-euniversity biology texts. Examples and explanations are contained with those books. Any biologist worth a damn knows about taxonomy of which genus is a technical term. The dunning–kruger effect is inflicting your again. Just because you do not know what you are talking about does not mean everyone does not. Your ego is preventing you from realizing this fact.

    You also just confirmed that you do not have a grade school education covering biology.
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #415 - August 14, 2015, 06:30 PM

    "King of the ex-muslim" need I say more?


     1. You assumed but did not verify your assumption. 2, You made a mistake then hold Quod responsible for your mistake. Quod being the king of France or the Moon is irrelevant to the debate. You are using this excuse as a cop-out to avoid showing any work you claim proves God.
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #416 - August 14, 2015, 06:31 PM

    You're my king, Quod.  001_wub


     Butt kissing
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #417 - August 14, 2015, 06:33 PM

     dance Only after 8pm
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #418 - August 14, 2015, 06:34 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW6egHV6jAw

    Some good work.
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #419 - August 14, 2015, 06:37 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqPGOhXoprU

    This is some advanced research which some of you may incorrectly use to say it will be possible to create life as we know it. But the more advanced of you will appreciate the complexity of life as we know it.
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