No, You’re Not Taking Those Verses ‘Out of Context’

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- Roberto40
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No, You’re Not Taking Those Verses ‘Out of Context’
OP - June 14, 2015, 10:49 AM

Excellent piece by Ali A Rizvi, which I don't think have been posted here before. What I don't understand is why an omniscient god would even include such verses in a book which is supposed to be the perfect guideline for all eternity for mankind. Surely he must have foreseen how these verses in the future, would mostly be used to commit atrocities. What purpose do they serve (apart from influencing people to commit atrocities)? Is quran a history book?

https://richarddawkins.net/2015/03/no-youre-not-taking-those-verses-out-of-context/

Quote
“The worst of beasts, in our view, are the followers of Allah—those who believe in Islam. They’re the ones you make treaties with, but they break those treaties every time because they have no fear of the law.”

The statement, of course, is blatantly bigoted hate speech against Muslims. But it is not something I have written. It is a passage from the Quran, verses 8:55-56, with references to disbelievers replaced by “followers of Allah” and “those who believe in Islam.” You can read the original verse here http://quran.com/8/55-56 .

Several commenters jumped on it, accusing me of taking these verses “out of context.”

“It’s a warfare verse,” said one. “It’s like taking a sentences out of a military book. If you are at war, then I think its fair that you can say it. But it is only applied in self-defense. You have to have a just reason for it.”

Okay, I told him. Let’s change the context then. Suppose the U.S. is at war with ISIS or Al Qaeda, and the president says:

“The worst of beasts, in our view, are the followers of Allah—those who believe in Islam. They’re the ones you make treaties with, but they break those treaties every time because they have no fear of the law.”

Does that read any better?

“It does if the fight is on the land of the one being attacked,” he replied. “The aggressor can be identified easily by where the war takes place. What if the attacked people are fighting in self-defense?”

Fine. Let’s suppose ISIS or Al Qaeda has attacked New York City, and the president says, in response:

“The worst of beasts, in our view, are the followers of Allah—those who believe in Islam. They’re the ones you make treaties with, but they break those treaties every time because they have no fear of the law.”

Better?
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No, You?re Not Taking Those Verses ?Out of Context?
Reply #1 - June 14, 2015, 01:04 PM

All I know is that followers tend to take verses out of context too when the imagery supports Islamic 'peace', etc.
- Quod Sum Eris
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No, You?re Not Taking Those Verses ?Out of Context?
Reply #2 - June 14, 2015, 06:07 PM

It's not exactly a secret the quran is often hateful towards non muslims. Replace kaffir/disbeliever with muslim and watch the reaction.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- Roberto40
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No, You’re Not Taking Those Verses ‘Out of Context’
Reply #3 - June 14, 2015, 07:58 PM

Yes, that's precisely it, religion divides and condemns. Which is why I don't get those who say "no religions teach hatred", because that is precisely what they do. They teach people to hate disbelievers, because disbelievers are condemned by god.

And the more uncritical and fanatical approach people have to their religion, the more likely is that religion to spawn extremists. Be it in violent or non-violent variations. And that's where muslims unfortunately seem to fail the most.
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No, You?re Not Taking Those Verses ?Out of Context?
Reply #4 - July 19, 2015, 09:48 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on June 14, 2015, 06:07 PM
It's not exactly a secret the quran is often hateful towards non muslims. Replace kaffir/disbeliever with muslim and watch the reaction.

It might even be less a secret that the Qur'an has some hateful comments towards Arabs from Madina. "and of those who are around you of the Arabs there are munafiqs, and from the dwellers of Madina... twice will We chastise them, then shall they be turned unto a grievous chastisement."

No, that was not a quote from a Christian sermon in a Florida swamp. That was Q. 9:101, Yazdi translation (Shi'i).
- Bolton34
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No, You?re Not Taking Those Verses ?Out of Context?
Reply #5 - November 04, 2015, 11:52 PM

Has anyone seen the article written in response to Rizvi's piece? What did you think of it?
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No, You?re Not Taking Those Verses ?Out of Context?
Reply #6 - November 05, 2015, 07:23 AM

Link?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- yeezevee
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No, You’re Not Taking Those Verses ‘Out of Context’
Reply #7 - November 05, 2015, 11:44 AM

Quote
Quote from: Bolton34 on November 04, 2015, 11:52 PM
Has anyone seen the article written in response to Rizvi's piece? What did you think of it?

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 05, 2015, 07:23 AM
Link?

Huh! link is the opening post...

No, You’re Not Taking Those Verses ‘Out of Context’

Hi Bolton34...please keep this in mind

Ali A. Rizvi in that article made a mistake here

Quote
The worst of beasts, in our view, are the followers of Allah—those who believe in Islam. They’re the ones you make treaties with, but they break those treaties every time because they have no fear of the law.”

The statement, of course, is blatantly bigoted hate speech against Muslims. But it is not something I have written. It is a passage from the Quran, verses 8:55-56, with references to disbelievers replaced by “followers of Allah” and “those who believe in Islam.” You can read the original verse here.

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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No, You?re Not Taking Those Verses ?Out of Context?
Reply #8 - November 05, 2015, 11:47 AM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on June 14, 2015, 06:07 PM
It's not exactly a secret the quran is often hateful towards non muslims. Replace kaffir/disbeliever with muslim and watch the reaction.

fantastic Idea QSD ... let us do that to few selective verses..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Bolton34
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No, You?re Not Taking Those Verses ?Out of Context?
Reply #9 - November 05, 2015, 12:34 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 05, 2015, 07:23 AM
Link?

This one

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/quranalyzeit/2015/04/10/yes-you-are-taking-those-verses-out-of-context-a-muslim-responds-to-atheist-ali-a-rizvi/
- yeezevee
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No, You’re Not Taking Those Verses ‘Out of Context’
Reply #10 - November 05, 2015, 12:55 PM

Quote from: Bolton34 on November 05, 2015, 12:34 PM

This one

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/quranalyzeit/2015/04/10/yes-you-are-taking-those-verses-out-of-context-a-muslim-responds-to-atheist-ali-a-rizvi/

Hello Bolton..... Is that from Ro Waseem ?? well that guy should know....

Quote
Many Muslims are Shirkdoers....

they are divided into Haram and Mushrik Sects (Wahabi, Deobandi, Sunni, Brelwi, Shia, Sufi....)..

And according to Al Quran...those who divide themselves into Haram and Mushrik Maslak/Firqa, fight and kill each other.

This is Allah's Azaab on this Mushrik NaPak istani nation....all of them....are mushrikeen.

Before getting angry....read your Creator's Quran....everything is written in there.

Do you want to know.....

Why the kuffaar of the world are crushing this so called muslim ummah under their feet and humiliating them...

Do you want to know.....

Why do we have corrupt rulers, corrupt leaders, Shirk doer Ulama Karam....

Do you want to know.....

Why this Lost Ummah accepts their Ulama's false interpretations as Deen.....

Do you want to know......

Why the Shirk doer Sectarians are killing each others.....

Do you want to know....

Why this Ummah is facing terrorism from Shirk-doer Talibaan.....

Do you want to know.....

Why this Ummah has divided into Haram and Mushrik "Schools of Thoughts".....

Do you want to know......

Why are they not Muslims, and why are they Salafi, Wahabi, Sunni, Shia, Brelwi, Deobandi, Tablighee, Sufee, Jihadees.....

Do you want to know......

Why, in spite of having Al Quran The Book of Guidance, this unfortunate Ummah is under Allah's Wrath and Azaab.....

The answer is......Because:

Not the kuffaar, but Al-Quran is the enemy of this Lost and Last Ummah...Please take your time and listen....and comment:

just kidding..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Bolton34
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No, You?re Not Taking Those Verses ?Out of Context?
Reply #11 - November 05, 2015, 07:21 PM

Yeah, it's from Ro Waseem.

This "you're taking these verses out of context" thing is over-used a LOT and is often used to derail from what scripture does say.

The Qur'an isn't awesome; it contradicts itself constantly and expects readers to believe in things from the stars being there to ward off Jinn, to the sun setting in a muddy spring and even embryos being formed from blood clots. It doesn't even advocate true social justice in my eyes, because if it did it would abolish slavery and not advise men to beat their wives for disobedience.
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