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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why Jihadists Write Poetry

 (Read 3062 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     OP - June 02, 2015, 11:17 AM

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/08/battle-lines-jihad-creswell-and-haykel
    Quote
    ....
    ISIS, Al Qaeda, and other Islamist movements produce a huge amount of verse. The vast majority of it circulates online, in a clandestine network of social-media accounts, mirror sites, and proxies, which appear and disappear with bewildering speed, thanks to surveillance and hacking. On militant Web sites, poetry-discussion forums feature couplets on current events, competitions among duelling poets, who try to outdo one another in virtuosic feats, and downloadable collections with scholarly accoutrements. (“The Blaze of Truth” includes footnotes that explain tricky syntax and unusual rhyme schemes.)

    Analysts have generally ignored these texts, as if poetry were a colorful but ultimately distracting by-product of jihad. But this is a mistake. It is impossible to understand jihadism—its objectives, its appeal for new recruits, and its durability—without examining its culture. This culture finds expression in a number of forms, including anthems and documentary videos, but poetry is its heart. And, unlike the videos of beheadings and burnings, which are made primarily for foreign consumption, poetry provides a window onto the movement talking to itself. It is in verse that militants most clearly articulate the fantasy life of jihad.
    ....

  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #1 - June 02, 2015, 11:22 AM

    Quote
    ....
    The culture of jihad is a culture of romance. It promises adventure and asserts that the codes of medieval heroism and chivalry are still relevant. Having renounced their nationalities, the militants must invent an identity of their own. They are eager to convince themselves that this identity is not really new but extremely old. The knights of jihad style themselves as the only true Muslims, and, while they may be tilting at windmills, the romance seems to be working. ISIS recruits do not imagine they are emigrating to a dusty borderland between two disintegrating states but to a caliphate with more than a millennium of history.

    Anyone who reads much jihadi poetry soon sees that it contains a great deal of theology. Religious doctrine is the essential glue of the culture, and many jihadi theologians have written poems. Just as the poets think of themselves as resurrecting an authentic poetic heritage, so the theologians believe that they are uncovering and resuscitating the true tenets of their faith. As theologians, jihadis are largely self-taught. They read the canonical texts (all of which are easy to find online) and are reluctant to accept the interpretations of mainstream clerics, whom they accuse of hiding the truth out of deference to political despots. The jihadis are literalists, and they promise to sweep away centuries of scholasticism and put believers in touch with the actual teachings of their religion. The elements of this scenario closely resemble those of the Protestant Reformation: mass literacy, the democratization of clerical authority, and methodological literalism. Under these circumstances, anyone might nail his theses to a mosque door.

    Among the principles that militants are trying to reclaim from the clerics is the principle of jihad itself. Armed struggle has long been recognized by the Islamic tradition, but it was rarely put at the core of what it means to be a Muslim: by the twentieth century, many jurists considered it little more than a relic. For the jihadis, this attitude is treasonous and has led to the Islamic world’s decline. They believe that waging jihad is central to Muslim identity—an ethical obligation and a political necessity. Some of the most compelling expressions of this view are poems.
    ....

    Quote
    ....
    After Ahlam al-Nasr arrived in Raqqa last year, she was given a celebrity tour by ISIS. She wrote a long prose account of what she saw, addressed to her “sisters” and disseminated through ISIS media outlets. Walking through the streets of Raqqa, al-Nasr notes that the stalls are full of fresh vegetables and that men encourage one another to follow the example of the Prophet and to stop smoking. She is allowed to cook for the militants, which gives her great joy: “Everything had to be clean and wonderful. I kept repeating to myself: ‘This food will be eaten by mujahideen, these plates will be used by mujahideen.’ ” She is also brought to a gun shop, where she learns how to assemble and disassemble Russian- and American-made rifles. “All this happened in Syria, sisters, and in front of my eyes!” she writes.

    Al-Nasr sees the caliphate as an Islamist utopia, not only because it is a place where Muslims behave as Muslims should but because it is a place of new beginnings. To most observers, Raqqa, under ISIS, is a rigidly totalitarian society, but for al-Nasr and other recruits it is a frontier where everything is in flux and negotiable—not only political boundaries but personal identities as well. Al-Nasr’s role is an unusually public one for a woman to play in jihadist movements, but ISIS has made a point of putting women on the front lines of the propaganda war. It has also created a female morality police, a shadowy group called the al-Khansa’ Brigades, who insure proper deportment in ISIS-held towns. Although media accounts of ISIS’s female recruits typically cast them as naïfs signing up for sexual slavery, it is a fact that no other Islamist militant group has been as successful in attracting women. In the most recent issue of Dabiq, ISIS’s English-language magazine, a female writer encourages women to emigrate to “the lands of the Islamic State” even if it means travelling without a male companion, a shocking breach of traditional Islamic law. This may be a cynical ploy—a lure for runaways. But it is in keeping with the jihadists’ attack on parental authority and its emphasis on individual empowerment, including the power of female believers to renounce families they do not view as authentically Muslim.

    The radical newness of ISIS society forms a strange counterpoint to the self-conscious archaism of the culture—the obsession with purity, with the buried truths of religion, and with classical literary forms. The al-Khansa’ Brigades are a notable example. Al-Khansa’ was a female poet of the pre-Islamic era who converted to Islam and became a companion of the Prophet, and her elegies for her male relations are keystones of the genre.
    ....

  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #2 - June 02, 2015, 11:39 AM

    zeca  opens a thread with some  newyorker ..ameriyorker.. whatever yorker  link

    Why Jihadists Write Poetry


    What poetry these idiots write zeca..?   any poem I can read?  they write bullshit .. My Dog makes noises that is as good as or even better than  their so-called poems.. the noise..

    can we add some poems from these fools?...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #3 - June 02, 2015, 11:56 AM

    ^by all means.
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #4 - June 02, 2015, 12:35 PM

     popcorn

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #5 - June 02, 2015, 01:17 PM

    Does this take into account the significance of poetry in general in Arabic culture, even apart from the jihadi subculture?
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #6 - June 02, 2015, 01:21 PM

    zeca  opens a thread with some  newyorker ..ameriyorker.. whatever yorker  link
    What poetry these idiots write zeca..?   any poem I can read?  they write bullshit .. My Dog makes noises that is as good as or even better than  their so-called poems.. the noise..

    can we add some poems from these fools?...


    If you haven't read the poetry how do you know your dog makes noises better than it? Tbh Yeezy it's you who seems to have a need to bark meaningless noises on every thread - even those you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

    Arabs prize poetry skills very highly and it doesn't surprise me that these Jihadis write a great deal of verse. In particular the classical Qasida which like their views belong to a bygone age.
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #7 - June 02, 2015, 01:36 PM

    If you haven't read the poetry how do you know your dog makes noises better than it? Tbh Yeezy it's you who seems to have a need to bark meaningless noises on every thread - even those you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.


    well noise is noise ..  whether I make you make .. dog makes or jihadi makes..

    Quote
    Arabs prize poetry skills very highly and it doesn't surprise me that these Jihadis write a great deal of verse. In particular the classical Qasida which like their views belong to a bygone age.

    you  are talking as if you are living and   listening to some  7th century  classical Qasida  Jihadis.,  By now you should have realized there are more Muslims that don't speak a word of Arabic but write Jihadi poetry in zillion other languages Hassan..

    here.. go..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl43nl-CWlI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZZJZkmyzZ0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5ZRbUeWImY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Iu8_YSGIQ

    let me know if you need more Hassan..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #8 - June 02, 2015, 04:04 PM

    Any translations yeez?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #9 - June 02, 2015, 05:04 PM

    Any translations yeez?


    If it can be found through a Google search, then I'm sure he will translate it for you, Quod Wink
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #10 - June 02, 2015, 05:21 PM

    Fascinating stuff.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #11 - June 02, 2015, 06:26 PM

    Possibly relevant.
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #12 - June 02, 2015, 07:17 PM

    ^looks relevant to me.
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #13 - June 02, 2015, 07:29 PM

    These Jihadis are all wannabees. They want to be the characters in the golden era of the Islamic narrative. They imagine themselves to be the prophet's companions and that their deeds will one day be recorded in the same way their beloved Salaf were recorded. They don't want to be part of the modern reality that they hate so much. They want to turn the clock back and recreate the fictional glory days and be the heroes on a white horse charging with sword in hand.
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #14 - June 02, 2015, 07:31 PM

    "Nine-bladed sword. Nine-bladed! Not two or five or seven, but nine, which he will wield on all wretched sinners, sinners just like you"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #15 - June 03, 2015, 05:59 AM

    A strange mix of assassin, Saladin and El Lawrence, with Indiana Jones and the Ark of the Covenant.

    Naziism with its occult ceremonies.

    This needs to be fought with different dreams.  I haven't seen that as part of anyone's strategy, but it is the critical bit.  "British values" don't cut it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0APF3SO9tqE

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #16 - June 03, 2015, 06:10 AM

    "Nine-bladed sword. Nine-bladed! Not two or five or seven, but nine, which he will wield on all wretched sinners, sinners just like you"


    Isn't this image from kali?  Are they mixing and matching war gods?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #17 - June 03, 2015, 06:11 AM

    Quote from: moi
    This needs to be fought with different dreams.  I haven't seen that as part of anyone's strategy, but it is the critical bit.  "British values" don't cut it.

    I agree with this.
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #18 - June 03, 2015, 06:18 AM

    Quote
    In 1945, a mysterious sword was found in Japan’s Isonokami shrine. The sword was of exceedingly unusual make, with six protrusions branching out from its sides (the tip is considered its seventh). The sword was in poor condition, but a faded inscription could be made out along the blade. The exact translation has been questioned numerous times, but what is clear is that the sword was a gift from a Korean king to a Japanese monarch.This matched a sword found in the Nihon Shoki, a folklore-infused historical document cataloging the early history of Japan. If this was the same seven-branched sword given to a semi-mythical shaman empress, Jingu, it would serve as an important keystone marking where legend became fact.The dating on the blade matched reliable sources in China, Korea, and Japan. The Isonokami shrine itself was also mentioned in other documents dating from the time of the Nihon Shoki, so the sword could well have been left there since ancient times. Scholars now believe the seven-branched sword is the actual sword from the legend, giving the shaman empress Jingu an authentic place in history. +


    http://listverse.com/2013/11/16/10-mysterious-swords-from-legend-and-history/

    They also seem to have been war gaming, for example with godwars!

    http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/God_Wars

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #19 - June 03, 2015, 06:21 AM

    Quote
    Rush'd on in view: in orderly array
    The squadron on the right first led, behind
    Rode their whole fleet; and now distinct we heard
    From ev'ry part this voice of exhortation:-
    "Advance, ye sons of Greece, from thraldom save
    Your country, save your wives, your children save,
    The temples of your gods, the sacred tomb
    Where rest your honour'd ancestors; this day

    The common cause of all demands your valour."


    THE PERSIANS , by Aeschylus, translated by Robert Potter


    And we do have the dream!

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #20 - June 03, 2015, 06:27 AM

    Quote
    The Gielinorian God Wars were an unimaginably extensive series of battles and conflicts covering the entire Third Age, a time of great calamity in Gielinor. They are the second known God Wars in history, and the first to rage on Gielinor. Although, over thousands of years, they still have had a major impact on modern day life in nearly all sites of Gielinor and are of great interest to archaeologists. A small faction of creatures from the wars can still be found battling for the Godsword in a recently thawed out dungeon in the north, having been frozen in time.


    http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/God_Wars

    Quote
    G'Gugvuntts and Vl'hurgs[edit]
    Two species which existed in the distant past, a very great distance from the Milky Way galaxy. The G'Gugvuntt were enemies of the Vl'hurgs, and these strange and warlike beings are on the brink of an interstellar war, because of an insult uttered by the G'Gugvuntt leader to the mother of the Vl'hurg leader. Resplendent in their black-jeweled battle shorts, they were meeting for the last time, and a dreadful silence filled the air as the Vl'hurg leader was challenging the G'Gugvuntt leader to retract the insult. At the precise moment, the phrase "I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle" (muttered by Arthur Dent to himself, which for some strange reason was carried by a freak wormhole in space back in time to the farthest regions of the universe where the G'Gugvuntts and the Vl'hurgs lived) filled the air over the conference table, which in the Vl'hurg tongue was the most dreadful insult imaginable. It left them no choice but to declare war on the G'Gugvuntts, which went on for a few thousand years and decimated their entire galaxy.

    After millennia of battle the surviving G'Gugvuntt and Vl'hurg realised what had actually happened, and joined forces to attack the Milky Way in retaliation. They crossed vast reaches of space in a journey lasting thousands of years before reaching their target where they attacked the first planet they encountered, Earth. Due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was swallowed by a small dog. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy states that this sort of thing happens all the time.

    In the film's epilogue guide entry midway through its credits, the phrase is stated as: "I wouldn't want to go anywhere without my wonderful towel," which in this case applied not just to the tongue of the Vl'hurgs, but to that of the G'Gugvuntts as well. Another change was that the two species settled their few remaining differences immediately after the offensive remark to commence the joint attack on our galaxy. In the computer game The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, any remark that the text parser does not understand has a chance of triggering a story arc involving the player's poorly chosen words travelling to the negotiation table and becoming the aforementioned insult.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_races_and_species_in_The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #21 - June 03, 2015, 06:41 AM

    Isn't this image from kali?  Are they mixing and matching war gods?


    Monty Python's "The Life of Brian"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #22 - June 03, 2015, 09:12 AM

    Na, holy grail!

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #23 - June 03, 2015, 09:16 AM

    Is there something about killing the other in a name of a god that gives the person a high in an altered state of consciousness? Hanging allegedly causes orgasm, does killing for a god?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #24 - June 03, 2015, 09:25 AM

    Quote
    This essay outlines a cybernetic theory of violence, supporting and extending earlier studies, particularly Gilligan and Websdale. It spells out recursive, interactive processes of alienation and emotion. The theory proposes that most violence is caused by the interaction between alienation and what Gilligan called secret shame, shame about shame. Recursion need not stop in one round: there may be no natural limit for the resultant spirals. A chain reaction of vengefulness, a shame/anger derivative, can be produced in this way. Two spirals are described: shame/rage and shame/shame. Studies and accounts of multiple killings offer preliminary support. The idea may be applicable to collective behavior also, such as gratuitous wars. Websdale's cases of calmly planned familicide seem particularly relevant to the origins of wars, such as WWI, in which vengeance seems to have played a major part. It would appear that the humiliation–revenge cycle is the most dangerous element in human existence. The last section offers some tentative first steps toward decreasing violence. To the extent that the theory proposed here is true, we face the dilemma of how to present it to a civilization in which the social–emotional world is virtually invisible.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178911000395

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #25 - June 03, 2015, 10:03 AM



    I really think this is an insightful observation:

    Quote
    A first hypothesis is that jihadi culture serves as a
    resource for costly signs of trustworthiness. This idea is
    inspired by the literature on trust and signaling. High-risk
    activists face a severe trust problem when dealing with new
    recruits or interlocutors. The person may be unreliable or,
    worse, an infiltrator. Given that trustworthiness and
    authenticity are unobservable properties, “trusters” have to
    look for observable signs that are correlated with those
    properties. A “sign” can be the way a person looks, behaves,
    speaks, or something else. Because impostors are actively
    mimicking those same signs to pass themselves off as
    10
    trustworthy, the sign-reading exercise – or “vetting” – is
    difficult. Central to the trust game is the notion of sign cost,
    because some signs are easier to mimic than others. Talk is
    famously cheap, while congenital features like skin colour are
    very hard to mimic. Signaling theory predicts that trusters will
    look for signs that are too costly to the mimic but affordable
    to the genuinely trustworthy.
    In the case of jihadi groups, displaying knowledge of jihadi
    culture – for example, a deep command of jihadi anashid – may be
    a costly sign because it takes time to acquire it. Familiarity
    of jihadi culture can thus be a proxy for time previously spent
    in the underground. From a truster’s point of view, the greater
    the range of possible signs to look for, the better. Because the
    jihadi cultural corpus is so rich and complex, it may well be a
    useful resource for vetting signs. There is some empirical
    evidence that this is the case, both in offline and online
    recruitment contexts. It may also help explain why certain
    jihadi groups have proved notoriously difficult to infiltrate
    for intelligence services - it’s just too difficult to learn all
    the cultural nuances.

  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #26 - June 03, 2015, 12:31 PM

    Isn't the solution to these sorts of issues, if someone is not certain about someone, to either send them off on the next suicide mission or get them to behead someone?  Normal gang techniques.  

    I think the poetry is about something else, as the op noted, to create a picture of a perfect society, with plentiful fruit and good poetry.

    You do not need your European jihadis to do much except be front line, do washing, cooking and cleaning, and provide personal services.  Mata Haris?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #27 - June 03, 2015, 12:37 PM

    Europeans are probably treated with contempt as being already polluted by having lived their lives in kaffirland

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #28 - June 03, 2015, 01:05 PM

    ^i assume foreign jihadis are recruited in part because they don't have local loyalties, knowledge and language skills, and can be persuaded to do things locals might be reluctant to do. Pre-modern Middle Eastern rulers tended to man their armies with foreign soldiers, for some of the same reasons.
  • Why Jihadists Write Poetry
     Reply #29 - June 03, 2015, 01:26 PM

    ^ Sometimes smart people think too hard. I think they will just take anybody that is willing to fight for them. They can't afford to be picky.
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »