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Theme Changer

 Topic: Person Al Islaam

 (Read 2042 times)
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  • Person Al Islaam
     OP - June 02, 2015, 09:10 PM

    https://personalislaam.wordpress.com/2015/06/02/more-encounters-with-unusual-muslims/

    More Encounters with Unusual Muslims

    Mondays are meant real downers but I was fortunate to be able to take an afternoon off last Monday since things were slowing down as summer was already here. I had made two consecutive appointments with two Muslims one would normally meet. My happy hunting ground? Appropriately enough, the Edgeware Road/Paddington area.

    My first meet up was with a journalist cum political analyst...


    I was early for my second appointment so I decided to walk over to Paddington. It was not a long a walk as I had expected. I even had the time to scope out a Malaysian restaurant I used to visit but it turns out, it was closed. I think closed down for good because if it was still open, it would be open at that hour!

    I was here to meet a friend I met on Facebook, Hassan. We met in a group called British Muslims for Secular Democracy where I was struck by Hassan’s description of himself as an ‘Agnostic Muslim’. I am not one of those people who balk at such terms either. I happily acknowledge that there are infinite varieties of Muslims who have infinite religious experiences. What struck about Hassan, even before we met in person, was his emphasis that his position as an agnostic Muslim was his own. He was speaking for himself, no one else. This is contrary to many I know. I highly respect this because my own approach to religion is predicated upon my subjective experience. Check out the name of this blog, if you don’t believe me.

    Hassan and I met at The Victoria pub just down the road from Paddington station (see pic below). It was a lovely pub in which you can imagine George Roper and Jeffery Fourmile having one of their little quarrels in. Hassan had very kindly offered to buy me lunch which made me all the more agreeable!

    Hassan grew up in during the ‘classical’ period of British Islam. I say ‘classical’ because this was the incubation period of Muslim youth. You could read a very beautiful narrative of this period by another British Muslim who grew up during this period, Ziauddin Sardar in his book ‘Desperately Seeking Paradise: Journeys of a Skeptical Muslim’ . Hassan was not just a casual Muslim. He studied and worked in the field!

    He came to his agnosticism when he found there were theological questions he could not answer. The example he mentioned was the eternity of hell. Surely a merciful god would not torture human beings eternally even for a lifetime of errors. I could attempt to answer this conundrum here but really, I would just be speculating on God’s logic myself. The fact of the matter is, this is a metaphysical issue for which no objective answer can be reached.

    Hassan and I shared an alma matter which was SOAS, that place where the historical criticism school of John Wansbrough first originated. Hassan actually studied under the man himself and I studied under his prodigy, Gerald Hawting (in his final class, no less).

    An interesting subject which came up and which I will be writing on in my Quranology blog is on the issue of the asmaa ul husna. The 99 names of Allah. Hassan pointed out that some of these names were not based on the Quran and some of names which can be formulated from the Quran are not there. Very interesting, I thought. He also pointed out that some names of Gods were positive sounding but not others. In the end, he concluded, that God is beyond what we try to pin him down with.

    This mode of thinking also extended to the Quran itself. For Hassan, the Quran was a divine inspiration in the same way any human being can be inspired to produce something meaningful.

    Prophet Muhammad was inspired but he had to express this inspiration in a human language and thus wrote down the Quran. So the wording was his but the source of the wording was not, if you will. Hassan still saw the Quran as a source of wisdom but has the choice of taking that wisdom on his own terms. It was very ironic, I thought, that he and I had different metaphysical views yet when it came to the practical application of Quran, we were on the same page.

    To me, Prophet Muhammad was inspired to verbalize what became the Quran. They were not his words but God’s own choice of words. This is why he could not understand them in full but had to see knowledge (as Quran 20/114 tells us). Of course, this is only my belief. I have no way of objectively proving this. In any case, in terms of application, we were on the same page. The Quran to me is applicable to the Reader who must decide if he is experiencing the particular sign or not.

    Time passes quickly when you’re into these deep discussions and soon Hassan had to leave. We promised to meet up again soon. I looked forward to that very much. All in all, it was a beautiful Monday and I went home glowing.
  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #1 - June 03, 2015, 01:52 AM

    The Victoria, Paddington.

  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #2 - June 03, 2015, 02:23 AM

    was John Wansbrough  your teacher ?
  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #3 - June 03, 2015, 04:27 AM

    Yes I had 3 tutors during my time st at soas. David Cowan was the first. Then Wansbrough and lastly Abdul Haleem.
  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #4 - June 03, 2015, 04:50 AM

    Hassan,
    you should write a book or something, you have some very game changing ideas that a lot of orthodox Muslims needs,  there must be another options  between atheism and medieval Islam.
  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #5 - June 03, 2015, 05:22 AM

    Thanks, Hatoush - inshallah one day  Smiley
  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #6 - June 04, 2015, 05:15 AM

    Quote
    Prophet Muhammad was inspired but he had to express this inspiration in a human language and thus wrote down the Quran.


    I go through this exact experience pretty frequently, it seems to be some sort of side effect of my bipolar (or perhaps of its being unmedicated for my entire childhood and teenage years, fuck knows how that + the abuse fucked up my brain's developing wiring). I have a lot of ideas in my brain that are pre-verbal. Most of what happens in the brain isn't in the verbal regions and you don't gain awareness of it (you don't have a verbal process telling your heart to pump blood, for example), then there is stuff that is non-verbal but you are aware of and can translate to words (like the severity of pain). I have a lot of stuff that is pre-verbal, stuff I am aware of but haven't translated into words, a lot of which makes me seem psychic when it is translated to words because I've picked up something that no one else has. It's easy for me to feel like it isn't coming from inside my head because it doesn't FEEL like it's being said by my internal monologue, it feels like external "inspiration" flooding me with information.

    Some of it seems to be stuff that most humans don't have any access to. Like, for example, I can tell the sex of a fetus in the first trimester, and have even known it before the mother's first missed period. The most logical explanation for how I have known this would be that I can smell hormone changes--not something that is commonly reported in humans, but also not something that is completely impossible or even that unlikely. Something that kind of supports this theory is that people, in particular men, smell very strongly of "disgusting" to me--and this doesn't seem to be an issue with their hygiene, because I can smell it on a man (like my husband) right after he leaves the shower. I've heard other asexuals complain about this exact thing, so it's possible that it is intrinsically linked to our asexuality--perhaps we are asexual, at least in part, because sex hormones smell bad to us, and we are overly sensitive to them, so instead of finding their release arousing in a instinctive level of our brain like a normal person, we just gag.

    Another thing that is similar to this is being able to "see" something on the face of a presidential candidate that allows me to know he will win the election. I first demonstrated this ability when I was 4, and it's been accurate every election since. The most logical explanation for this would be that, since some percentage of the voters are swayed by something other than a candidate's political party (otherwise every elections' results would be pretty much the same), there is something in the person--their charisma, the authority with which they carry themselves, etc.--that persuades the swing voters; and I am able to pick up on that and extrapolate it into "he'll carry the election." Again, not commonly reported, but not impossible.

    Because it FEELS like this information is coming from an external source, it was easy for me as a kid to explain it by saying that I was in touch with a spirit world. In my parents' cosmology, I was a demon that had come to earth to absorb the power of their prophet/messiah figure son, so that idea fit their cosmology well. Their views didn't have much to offer me, so I was more pantheist/shamanist as a child: I believed in a spirit world, but I didn't believe that spirits were inherently good or inherently evil; they were complex individuals with complex emotions, and they could be befriended or made your enemy. I also didn't believe in a hierarchy of spirits, I believed they had a sort of general council (this was influenced by Psalm 82), and I believed in sort of patron spirits, a spirit that would individually look out for a person.

    Psalm 82 is interesting from a theological perspective. The best way to explain it is to say that at the time it was written, the writer, although himself a monotheist in that he only prayed to one god, did not believe the universe was monotheistic--he believed there were other gods, but that his god was stronger than the rest of them. He had a god he worshiped as supreme, but that god was not the only god in the universe. That seems to be a pretty common theme in the Hebrew scriptures. The god in them talks a lot about being jealous and judging/punsihing other gods (not their followers--the gods themselves). This makes a lot of sense when you consider the time/place when these texts were written, and that this is not that different from what a lot of the other local tribes believed.

    Here is a link to Psalm 82, as translated by a modern Jewish source: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2682.htm

    But the translation is a bit misleading, modern ideas of monotheism are being forced onto a text that doesn't really support them. What it more accurately says in verses 1 and 6-7 (the interesting verses) are: "Elohim (a plural word for god, but often used as a proper noun) stands in the place of el (the word for which elohim is a plural; again, can mean a pantheon or a proper noun)/between the elohim he judges...I have said, you are elohim, all sons of Elyon (lit. the highest, the predominant)/but, as adam (lit. mankind, man) you shall die..." and then the rest of v. 7 is weird, since Hebrew was a dead language for such a long time, the second part doesn't make a lot of sense, it's something like: first word means "in one way" (translated as down, because of the third word) second word is something like "miraculous sign" or "together" the third word is "fall" or "be cast down" so altogether it's something like "together (or, as a sign) in one direction you will fall down". (The word order is often different in Hebrew than it would be in English because they're not from the same language family, so scrambling the word order isn't necessarily wrong.)

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #7 - June 04, 2015, 09:09 AM

    I go through this exact experience pretty frequently, it seems to be some sort of side effect of my bipolar...

    It's easy for me to feel like it isn't coming from inside my head because it doesn't FEEL like it's being said by my internal monologue, it feels like external "inspiration" flooding me with information.

    Because it FEELS like this information is coming from an external source, it was easy for me as a kid to explain it by saying that I was in touch with a spirit world...


    I think this is why some people believe they are receiving inspiration from an external source but it is really coming from within them.
  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #8 - June 04, 2015, 01:16 PM

    Fun fact: The term inspiration literally means "being breathed upon (by a spirit)."

    Quote
    inspiration (n.) Look up inspiration at Dictionary.com
        c. 1300, "immediate influence of God or a god," especially that under which the holy books were written, from Old French inspiracion "inhaling, breathing in; inspiration," from Late Latin inspirationem (nominative inspiratio), noun of action from past participle stem of Latin inspirare "inspire, inflame, blow into," from in- "in" (see in- (2)) + spirare "to breathe" (see spirit). Literal sense "act of inhaling" attested in English from 1560s. Meaning "one who inspires others" is attested by 1867.

    Source
  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #9 - June 04, 2015, 01:46 PM

    A question I’ve thought of posing to Muslims is, “suppose most of the Qur’an truly was divinely inspired, but Muhammad also made up a part of it. How would you tell the difference?”
  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #10 - June 04, 2015, 02:00 PM

    Muslims' belief in the Quran requires a lot of faith, and they're fully aware of it. Most Muslims (as far as I know) acknowledge that the Quran was compiled after Muhammad's death, and that there were several versions of it, of which only the one Uthman authorized survives today. They just have faith that the Quran was transmitted correctly and Uthman preserved the right version.

    Any question you ask is bound to be useless because the only response you'll get will probably be that they have faith God preserved the correct version, because obviously God wants his word to be preserved accurately.
  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #11 - June 04, 2015, 02:10 PM

    That’s not a useless answer at all. It’s the answer I’d expect. It demonstrates that there really is no criteria for judging the miraculous nature of the Qur’an and that it all really is just a subjective matter of faith.
  • Person Al Islaam
     Reply #12 - June 04, 2015, 02:14 PM

    Sure. What I meant is that it's useless for a rational discussion, if that's what you're after. But I see what you're saying.
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