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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

 (Read 475973 times)
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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8940 - February 04, 2020, 02:50 PM

    Quote
    YOU WOULD HAVE WRITTEN AT LEAST ONE POST that is good from her work  [...] TO ME YOUR PROBLEM WITH HER/HER WORK APPEARS TO BE PERSONAL  ..may be I am wrong..


    Things does not work like that. I judge Crone's work, especially from the fact that she is considered sceptic in the field. She was not as shows Badawi in my quote. You make something personal whereas it is not.Curious, that you does not get it.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8941 - February 06, 2020, 11:25 AM

    Things does not work like that.

     Cheesy  no...noo.. noooooooooo...Historians, or scientists or any one with inquiring  mindset  also human beings.. they are NOT born saints., they  all have all those emotional qualities and behavioral properties such as anger, happiness, laziness, ego etc..etc dear Altara ., Different people may control them in different level when they are expressing their personalities  but every human being will have those qualities.. You and me are no exception to that rule..  so such highlighted things do work like that around human beings Cheesy

    Quote
    I judge Crone's work, especially from the fact that she is considered sceptic in the field. She was not as shows Badawi in my quote. You make something personal whereas it is not.Curious, that you does not get it.

    Nope.. nope.. YOU ARE NOT JUDGING HER WORK., you are judging her personality that too because someone else (other historians) consider her/her work as skeptic in the field

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8942 - February 10, 2020, 01:13 PM

    Damn you.,   you add more questions with your answers.. Oh well.,  that is the way discussions go on a tough subject  but  let me first read that François Déroche's Qur'ans of the Umayyads

     http://data.nur.nu/Kutub/English/Qurans-of-the-Umayyads-A-First-Overview_by-Deroche_Brill.pdf


     well I am reading that François Déroche.. here and there ., So in that page 12 of that review he give a reference of a fascinating guy from Russia..

     –87 ....E. Z. Rezvan, On the dating of an“ʿUthmanic Qurʾan” from Saint Peters burg.,  ., ManuscriptaOrientalia6–3[September2000],pp.19–22) ..

    And I casually went through E. Z. Rezvan's , work as he published a paper on Islam and Russia .

    THE  QUR’ĀN  AND  POWER  IN  RUSSIA. PDF   By E. Rezvan

    So let me put some of his work on Early Quran/Quran manuscripts    you can see him in these tubes
    Quote


    Glimpses into history: 5 ancient Koranic manuscripts in Russia by   By E. Rezvan

    and many of his publications on early Quran manuscripts  that are there  in and around Russia can be read from
     
    http://lib.kunstkamera.ru/rubrikator/02/978-5-88431-236-4/

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8943 - February 11, 2020, 05:38 PM

    Petra Sijpelstijn on the slow and rapid introduction of Arabic in the administration throughout the empire:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da9D1BwJMgY&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8944 - February 20, 2020, 08:43 PM

    Sassanids left Jerusalem in 630

    Mohammed entered Aqaba in 630

    What a mixture of armies there must have been around these crucial years in the Levant (and Egypt). It's not as if the Romans were back in the Levant governing steadily the province and extracting taxes. It is as if the Arabs took over where the Sassanids left. The Romans seem to have come, looked and turned back,

    Is there something in this theory that the Romans subcontracted to the Arabs the governance of the Levant by an agreement, not by a lost war?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8945 - February 20, 2020, 11:19 PM

    Sassanids left Jerusalem in 630


    Source ?

    Quote
    The Romans seem to have come, looked and turned back,


    Well, at least this is what Heraclius did when he brought back the Cross to Jerusalem.

    Quote
    Is there something in this theory that the Romans subcontracted to the Arabs the governance of the Levant by an agreement, not by a lost war?


    The Roman clients might have been the ones to loose the war Smiley


  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8946 - February 21, 2020, 02:31 PM

    Quote
    In 628, following the deposition of Khosrau II, Kavadh II made peace with Heraclius giving Palaestina Prima and the True Cross back to the Byzantines. The conquered city and the Holy Cross would remain in Sasanian hands until they were returned by Shahrbaraz. Shahrbaraz and his son Niketas, who converted to Christianity, would control Jerusalem until at least the late summer/early autumn of 629.[24] On March 21 630 Heraclius marched in triumph into Jerusalem with the True Cross.[25]

    fp

    from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasanian_conquest_of_Jerusalem
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8947 - Yesterday at 12:49 PM

    mundi puts out something from uncle wiki

    fp

    from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasanian_conquest_of_Jerusalem

    Quote
    In 628, following the deposition of Khosrau II, Kavadh II made peace with Heraclius giving Palaestina Prima and the True Cross back to the Byzantines. The conquered city and the Holy Cross would remain in Sasanian hands until they were returned by Shahrbaraz. Shahrbaraz and his son Niketas, who converted to Christianity, would control Jerusalem until at least the late summer/early autumn of 629.[24] On March 21 630 Heraclius marched in triumph into Jerusalem with the True Cross.[25]


    mundi  wiki is just for startup...and one must be careful to take that as true history from what people have written at wiki  specially when it comes to history unlike science subjects

    let us not take what these guys wrote

    Quote
    Walter Emil Kaegi (2003). Heraclius, Emperor of Byzantium. Cambridge University Press. pp. 185, 189. ISBN 9780521814591. Retrieved 12 March 2014.

     Michael H. Dodgeon, Samuel N. C. Lieu, eds. (2002). The Roman Eastern Frontier and the Persian Wars Ad 363-628, Part 2. Taylor & Francis. pp. 227–228.


    on their face value.. in fact names like  Shahrbaraz ....Niketas..... itself is questionable... they are NOT original names.. they are titles., like "MUHAMMAD" but this


    Byzantine and Sassanid empires and their vassals at the beginning of 7th century CE. Based on the http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:East-Hem_600ad.jpg by User:Talessman

    geographical picture from your wiki link is very useful one

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8948 - Yesterday at 05:16 PM

    Yeez,

    So what do you correct in my timeline?
    Were Sassanids only removed in 629 or not?
    Did Heraclius only enter Jerusalem in 630 or not?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8949 - Yesterday at 05:28 PM

    Yeez,

    So what do you correct in my timeline?
    Were Sassanids only removed in 629 or not?
    Did Heraclius only enter Jerusalem in 630 or not?

    OOps .. where is the timeline in your post and what timeline are we talking dear mundi...

    well there are many holes in the stories that are floating on Heraclius and Sassanids.,   but I am not sure that is anything to do with POLITICAL ISLAM that was propagated., and you can see that kind of Islam in this folder..  which actually gives you time line of Islam

    Chronological History of  Islam 

    and and I was not correcting anything but telling the reader to question   these words.. the names of persons  in wiki

    Quote
    ........Sasanian hands until they were returned by Shahrbaraz. Shahrbaraz and his son Niketas, who converted to Christianity,........


    anyways please point to your post of that timeline ..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8950 - Yesterday at 05:56 PM

    My timeline

    Quote
    Sassanids left Jerusalem in 630

    Mohammed entered Aqaba in 630


    Apparently Aqaba was " on its own" for 50 years before the Arabs took over...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8951 - Yesterday at 06:13 PM

    Quote
    My timeline

    Sassanids left Jerusalem in 630

    Mohammed entered Aqaba in 630


    nah.... Cheesy that is NOT TIME LINE dear mundi.,  it is  just a date.. just a year., and  it is just a hand waving statement from 16th century Muslim historians  and copied by some western university professors  in 19th/20th century and  publish it as Islamic history  Cheesy  dear mundi ..

    what Mohammed entered Aqaba in 630?? which Muhammad?? where is Aqaba??  it is all the way down in the  Arabian Ocean

    Quote
    Apparently Aqaba was " on its own" for 50 years before the Arabs took over...

    That would be nice if you could get some link of Aqaba history from 5th to 7th century...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8952 - Yesterday at 08:10 PM

    Quote
    Sassanids left Jerusalem in 630

    Mohammed entered Aqaba in 630


    I do realize that the Aqaba date is part of muslim tradition and thus not reliable. But the Jerusalem 630 date is afaik. Leaves a whole part of " arabia" not ruled by the Sassanides nor the Byzantines.

    If there is a kernel of truth in the Hijaz provenance of the "muslims", they must have passed through Aqaba, probably camped there for a few years. And then these dates become relevant.

    The dates bring us to 630's, that is what c14 dating gives us for the oldest manuscripts. Is Aqaba area the place where the scribal workshop was? Was the scribal committee located in that area?
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