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Theme Changer

 Topic: What is an Agnostic Muslim?

 (Read 16042 times)
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  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #150 - September 01, 2015, 01:01 AM

    I think we are all inspired and driven by whatever power/force drives this universe. I think the Qur'an is a remarkable book - and ironically would not be judged so harshly if it did not claim a divine author.

    Copying Christians? Am I? If I am it's not consciously. And no - I'm not concerned at all. A good idea is a good idea - regardless of where it comes from.


    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #151 - September 01, 2015, 01:06 AM

    Not saying you are, just wondering if it's crossed your mind this claim may come your way. For the most part they've moved on from "word of god" to "divinely inspired by god".

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #152 - September 01, 2015, 01:12 AM

    Good move imho  Wink

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #153 - September 01, 2015, 01:22 AM

    Well it was the only way they could survive. I always figured if islam was to survive this is the route it'd take.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #154 - September 01, 2015, 05:03 AM

    Oh I know, and I know you've explained yourself ad nauseum. As it relates to Bogart's question, I was just pointing out that for what most people call "god," the word atheist works just fine for me.


    I find a lot of the ideas used for the concept of God to lack coherence. I take issues with the ideas based on negation which provide characteristics of for god(s). The closer to humans gods were the less godlike these figures became. The further gods were from humans the more incoherent the characteristics became
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #155 - September 01, 2015, 05:19 AM

    Godlike how? Isn't the very term an oxymoron since it's our own ideas of what a god should be, how a god should seem?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #156 - September 01, 2015, 08:52 AM

    Hmm bogart says something
    I find a lot of the ideas used for the concept of God to lack coherence. .......bogart

    let me rewrite that ..

    "I find a lot of  ideas of people that use for the concept of God to lack coherence  and common sense" .......bogart

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #157 - September 01, 2015, 03:41 PM

    Since I began identifying as an Agnostic Muslim many people have asked me why? And what is an Agnostic Muslim?

    Just to briefly recap on my story: I was born Muslim & practised as devoutly as I could for 50 years. Islam guided every aspect of my life. But towards the latter years I suffered a deep crisis of faith. My doubts and questions led me to reject Islam completely and I began to make videos critiquing aspects of Islam. I joined the Council of Ex-Muslims to support Maryam Namazie and others in breaking down the taboo surrounding leaving Islam. I also helped found the Council of Ex-Muslims online forum to provide a safe place for ex-Muslims & freethinkers to express themselves and find support.

    While I still support Maryam's work and stand by my previous videos, my own personal journey did not not stop there. Although I no longer believe in Islam in the traditional way, I don't feel completely comfortable with the label ex-Muslim either. Nor do I feel at ease identifying as an Atheist.

    I prefer the label Agnostic Muslim as it reflects my doubts as well as my Muslim heritage. I do believe in "something" - something beyond this material existence - something I can't define or quantify - you can call this "something" God if you want. Yet at the same time I believe it is impossible to either prove nor disprove its existence.

    I feel comfortable identifying as a Muslim. Not because I believe it is the one true religion but simply because it is the tradition I am familiar and comfortable with and my family, friends and loved ones are all Muslims. I enjoy participating in Islamic festivals, I find comfort in prayer & I still instinctively refer to verses of the Qur'an or hadith & draw on many parts of Islamic wisdom and culture despite the fact I reject other parts of it.

    However at the same time I don't believe the Qur'an is infallible. I believe the Qur'an is of human origin. I am happy to accept that Muhammad was inspired by God to utter the words of the Qur'an. I think we are all inspired and driven by whatever power/force drives this universe. This inspiration comes through our human mind and character. Muhammad expressed his inspiration according to his time, culture, and personality. He composed the words and phrased the sentences. As a result I believe that, while the Qur'an contains a great deal of wisdom, it is inextricably tied to its context and environment. Most important of all, it is fallible & must be subject to human reason, and not the other way around.

    I believe that although ultimate truth may well exist as regards metaphysical matters, from our human perspective such truth is relative. So I am not dogmatic nor insistent that my way is the only way. My faith is universalistic, inclusive, pluralistic and accepting of differences.
    If there is a God then he has clearly chosen to create a world where there is plenty of reasonable doubt about his existence and about religion and so I believe that the only thing that would be of concern to a Just & Merciful God would be our actions. How we live our lives. The choices we make. The good we do & the love we show. Not whether you believed in him - nor what religion - if any - you followed.
    I reject the traditional view of heaven and hell and judgment day. If there is some sort of reckoning - and such a thing is doubtful in my opinion - then it would be based on our actions not what religion we follow. It will surely take into account our flawed nature and the fact that our freewill is limited at best and largely determined by biology and environment.

    I not only reject the notion of Shari'ah Law - I reject the very idea of a "Perfect Divine Law for all times and all places" All laws are human laws and all forms of government are human forms of government. Flawed and very fallible. They always have been and always will be. All we can be expected to do is strive to make the best laws and governments we can with the tools we have.

    I strongly believe that if Muslims were able to recognise the "human" origin of the Qur'an it would solve a great deal of the problems we face, while at the same time allowing them to retain their faith as Muslims. In fact it is the belief in the infallibility of the Qur'an that is undermining the Qur'an and Islam. Because it forces us to either invent dishonest and laughable apologetics or compels us towards harsh literalist views.



    Good to see to see this post already has 100 likes on my FB page and some great comments from Muslims. Please support it it if you can Smiley

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #158 - September 01, 2015, 03:41 PM

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1689390541295768&substory_index=0&id=100006745147497

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #159 - February 09, 2016, 05:15 PM

    You are not a muslim. An Agnostic is someone who isn't sure whether Allah exists or not. And a muslim is someone who submits to the will of Allah. If you don't belief in Allah you cannot submit to him which makes you a kafir and not muslim. Don't get the wrong idea. I am not judging you i am just stating the facts. You are just agnostic, not Islamic agnostic nor agnostic muslim. There is nothing Islamic about doubting Allah and his messenger(SAW). You can always repent. Stop misuing the term "muslim". Verily you are causing trouble.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #160 - February 09, 2016, 06:12 PM

    Don't get the wrong idea. I am not judging you i am just stating the facts...  Verily you are causing trouble.


     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    "Agnostic Theism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. An agnostic theist believes in the existence of at least one deity, but regards the basis of this proposition as unknown or inherently unknowable."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #161 - February 09, 2016, 07:42 PM

    You are not a muslim. ................... Verily you are causing trouble.

       Astaghfirullah ........  Istighfar Gorilla

    may Allah forgive you for your Ignorance Kamil., you being newcomer to this site .. welcome to CEMB forum and my greetings and good wishes to you..

    What can I say to your post Kamil??    except I argue  you to read   Quran....


    O Mankind! Now We have revealed unto you a Book that is all about you and it will give you eminence. Will you not, then, use your sense("Akl")?

    "Without doubt, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the deaf, the dumb, who do not use their ‘Aql’ "

    And Please give my regards to your Father... Sure he is a great guy  he is one among us and there are million like him on this globe ..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #162 - March 09, 2016, 09:47 AM

    Well I guess this   Doctoro  Shabir Ally  video should go here

    Can you be an Agnostic Muslim? - Dr Shabir Ally

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvBpgbUYgVA

    I also ask the good doctor of Quran to read these two verses from Surah Al-Ma'idah

    Quote
    101: O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing.

    102: Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.


    and and clean shave....

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #163 - March 09, 2016, 11:48 AM

    Verily you are causing trouble.


    Who says *verily* in normal speech??

    Have you traveled here by time-machine?

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #164 - March 28, 2016, 07:36 AM



    I believe that although ultimate truth may well exist as regards metaphysical matters, from our human perspective such truth is relative. So I am not dogmatic nor insistent that my way is the only way. My faith is universalistic, inclusive, pluralistic and accepting of differences.

    If there is a God then he has clearly chosen to create a world where there is plenty of reasonable doubt about his existence and about religion and so I believe that the only thing that would be of concern to a Just & Merciful God would be our actions. How we live our lives. The choices we make. The good we do & the love we show. Not whether you believed in him - nor what religion - if any - you followed.
    I reject the traditional view of heaven and hell and judgment day. If there is some sort of reckoning - and such a thing is doubtful in my opinion - then it would be based on our actions not what religion we follow. It will surely take into account our flawed nature and the fact that our freewill is limited at best and largely determined by biology and environment.

    I not only reject the notion of Shari'ah Law - I reject the very idea of a "Perfect Divine Law for all times and all places" All laws are human laws and all forms of government are human forms of government. Flawed and very fallible. They always have been and always will be. All we can be expected to do is strive to make the best laws and governments we can with the tools we have.

    I strongly believe that if Muslims were able to recognise the "human" origin of the Qur'an it would solve a great deal of the problems we face, while at the same time allowing them to retain their faith as Muslims. In fact it is the belief in the infallibility of the Qur'an that is undermining the Qur'an and Islam. Because it forces us to either invent dishonest and laughable apologetics or compels us towards harsh literalist views.



    Heidegger? Is that you Heidegger? Some of what you said seems to be very similar to post-modern Christianity based upon Heidegger and later work based on his views. Have you read Time and Being?

    One of the approaches of post-modern Christianity is not to view the stories in which God is a character as a literal act of God within the world but a reference to the human condition and our ability to transcend what and who we are. Each story about God is used to motivate inquiry into self thus is far more subjective than mainstream ideas. It takes the view that doctrine, tradition and dogma have been used to teach people the "right" thoughts about God rather than for them to develop their own ideas. You must think X about God because each factor claims it is the only way to think. If you do not think as they do something is wrong with you. For example the sacrifice of Isaac in mainstream views is used to show absolute faith in God. The gotcha I was just bluffing is ad hoc. From a PM-C view point Abraham failed the test as he blindly followed God's commands even when he had moral issues with the commands. In the end God pulled his gotcha showing that there was never any intention for Issac to die. He should of told God to stuff his plans like he did with Sodom and Gomorrah. In that story Abe blasts God for willing to kill the righteous with the wicked. The point being to kill everyone for the guilt of even a majority is wrong. The "innocents" were removed from harm but this rises the question were they saved only due to Abraham's point. Another example are the acts of genocide which make God a moral monster. A lot of doctrine has lead to horrible acts and ideas especially when it comes to religious justification for violence. God allows genocide and violence. As long as people claim the pretenses required for the act they justify it.  Doctrine and dogma which advocate violence are telling you what to think and what to do based on their point of view rather than your own point of view. It dehumanizes not only the victims but also you as it covertly tells you not to trust your own reasoning. It tells you something that is morally wrong is morally right because God did it, special pleading included.

    Miracles are also dismissed as all have negative consequences for God. One is God is always acting in the past never the present. He wasn't freeing Christian slaves from the Ottomans or Americas. It shows a God that acts on whims, emotions and favoritism. More so the doctrine and dogma developed by prosperity doctrine based on favoritism has created horrible views regarding success and failure of an individual as an act of God. Children starving to death? God must not favor them. Bloated Americas? God is on your side. Nation is in a recession, God must be anger about something. These views have been used to embrace capitalism to a point that Christianity is part of capitalism in many nations. More so one only needs to look at the religious right (Canada/America) that embrace greedy millionaires or bought politicians that claim to be Christian but are not. The very idea of Christians interacting with Christians that embrace greed, profit, etc is against the NT and Paul's views.

    It dismisses the claims of empiricism based on arguments for God in philosophy and apologetic claims of literal acts. Claim such as the Quran was dictated by God to Gabriel to Muhammad establishes a chain of causality. The problem with such a claim is that causality is empirical and has been for centuries. This applies to metaphysics as well. If one invoke principles of causality to infer God exists all you have done is make metaphysics empirical, supernatural is now natural. To have an effect on the empirical is to be empirical. God becomes defined as an object rather than God is or a being. God becomes restricted by the very principles used to as evidence of existing. Existing is defined by specific parameters thus God becomes part of the universe rather than transcending it. God becomes a powerful but limited entity. Hence why God in literalist views never transcends the human condition but merely reflect it. It never rises above it's human environmental and cultural origins since it is defined by both.

    To me it seems like a similar approach in which modern issues are actually addressed rather than returning to a nostalgia based view of a past golden age that never existed. People seem to think a return to the old will magically solve problem yet they ignore that these system were in place when modern issues started to increase and failed as a solution when it has not only the majority to do so but the power to enact it.





  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #165 - March 28, 2016, 07:39 AM

    Who says *verily* in normal speech??

    Have you traveled here by time-machine?


    So Hasan, what's your latest stance?
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #166 - March 30, 2016, 12:46 PM

    Actually I have been very consistent. I am and continue to strive to break the taboo on leaving Islam. I am and continue to be an ardent supporter of Maryam Namazie. I do and have always stood by the videos i made criticising aspects of Islam. I always have and continue to support reformists taking a critical look at Islam and challenging many of its beliefs. I have always and continue to care deeply about my Muslim family friends, loved ones and Muslims in general. I am and have always been totally opposed to far right bigots and haters who attack Muslims. I am and have always been Agnostic. I do and have always regarded the term Ex-Muslim as a means to an end, to help break the taboo on leaving Islam. I now use the term Agnostic Muslim as I feel more comfortable with it and find it a more effective way of bringing about change from within and conveying to Muslims that the Qur'an is a fallible human work.

    My position - in fact - has been completely consistent.

    The fact that some are not intelligent enough to understand what I'm doing is their problem, not mine.

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #167 - March 30, 2016, 12:57 PM

    Edit above

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #168 - March 30, 2016, 01:00 PM

    Anyone who has followed and read the things I have said cannot fail to appreciate that I have been very consistent. I am and continue to strive to break the taboo on leaving Islam. I am and continue to be an ardent supporter of Maryam Namazie. I always have and continue to support reformists taking a critical look at Islam and challenging many of its beliefs. I am and have always been totally opposed to far right bigots and haters who attack Muslims. I am and have always been Agnostic. I have never been 100% happy with the term Ex-Muslim and right from the beginning it was simply a means to an end. A term I used (and the same goes for Maryam hersef) to help break the taboo on leaving Islam. I now use the term Agnostic Muslim as I feel more comfortable with it and I find it a more effective way of bringing about change from within.

    My position has - in fact - been completely consistent.

    Huh! what..........

    Who are you? what are you??

    Musim?
    ex-Muslim?
    Agnostic Muslim?  
    A Muslim with no belief in Islam?
    No Quran No hadith Muslim?
    A Muslim with No Islam that is followed  all over the globe?

    Who are you?  what are you Hassan??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #169 - March 30, 2016, 08:19 PM

    Actually I have been very consistent. I am and continue to strive to break the taboo on leaving Islam. I am and continue to be an ardent supporter of Maryam Namazie. I do and have always stood by the videos i made criticising aspects of Islam. I always have and continue to support reformists taking a critical look at Islam and challenging many of its beliefs. I have always and continue to care deeply about my Muslim family friends, loved ones and Muslims in general. I am and have always been totally opposed to far right bigots and haters who attack Muslims. I am and have always been Agnostic. I do and have always regarded the term Ex-Muslim as a means to an end, to help break the taboo on leaving Islam. I now use the term Agnostic Muslim as I feel more comfortable with it and find it a more effective way of bringing about change from within and conveying to Muslims that the Qur'an is a fallible human work.

    My position - in fact - has been completely consistent.

    The fact that some are not intelligent enough to understand what I'm doing is their problem, not mine.


    If you get a chance could you read my post and respond. I am interested if your view is similar to post-modern Christianity
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #170 - March 30, 2016, 09:25 PM

    So Hasan, what's your latest stance?

    The way you have posed the question is suggestive of Hassan having different stances and isn’t a principled person. That’s a lie and a slur.

    I completely disagree with the nonsensical duality of “Agnostic Muslim” advanced by Hassan on linguistic, historical, logical and theological grounds. But I do not doubt his honesty, integrity and seriousness of purpose.
     
    If Hassan is fickle and without principles, then tell us all about the things he is now advocating which are different from the things he has always done from the founding of this forum. Waste your time, if you please, and give us some detail. While you're at it, tell us about his motives, financial or otherwise, to having allegedly different stances.

    Hassan Ridwan is, let me add, a real person. He is so ridiculously above the disguised cowardliness of Wahhabist, Shinsengumi and nameless others. Thus, you cannot successfully cast aspersions on his person because nobody had had the (dis)pleasure of knowing your personal name or personal history so as to investigate whether or not you yourself have always been honest, consistent, and with principles.

    Publically so far, you have shown inconsistency yourself:

    1. Why did you need to give the Quran another chance in 2013? Why was this inconsistent stance on your part?

    2. In 2012, you said that you still had “a strong urge to revert back to Islam”. Do you still have this powerful urge? Have you given in to this urge? Is it of gargantuan wisdom to give or not to give in to strong urges in matters of spiritual as well as gastronomical nature? Do your strong urges keep you up at night or cause you other kinds of trouble? What's the latest on that personal front?

    3. You further said you missed the days of praying and that you really want to go back to Islam because of its cleanliness and personal hygiene. Wait! Do you not wash every day after Islam? If so, what's stopping you? Do you mind a little bit of scatology such as being told to pull your shit together? What’s the latest on that personal front and possibly backside?

    4. How about getting speculative with you too: is it really impossible to suspect you of having participated in this thread with two different names?

    Would it be wholly unlikely that you are just a disappointed devotee who is unable to cope with Shaikh Hassan’s religious ambivalence? Does Hassan hold such moral suasion over you? Are you by any chance the latest victim of hero worship?

    5. Why else would you not be able to cope with Hassan's continuous self-analysis and examination if you really hadn't reposed too much faith in his faithlessness?

    Are you afraid Hassan's toying with Islam might lead him back to where you do not seem to have the courage of your strong urges or convictions to tread?

    6. D'you think Hassan owes you anything because you unwisely might have had made him your role model?

    These and more accusatory things can be said to and about you — things not all of which firmly reside in the realm of unlikely possibilities. Nor their being unable, on the whole, to add a grain of eventual wisdom to a mountain of actual nonsense is sufficient for others to immediately ignore it, or to underestimate the easy validity of getting terribly personal with you in return.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #171 - March 30, 2016, 09:27 PM

    I haven't read Heidegger, Bogart and I know nothing of post-modern Christianity but it is quite flattering that you think my views are derivative since they are entirely my own and so I take that as a compliment. Smiley

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #172 - March 30, 2016, 09:29 PM

    Thanks Wahhabist Smiley

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #173 - March 30, 2016, 09:31 PM

    Verily thou hast thine answer, my dear Mr. Shenanigan.

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #174 - March 30, 2016, 11:09 PM

    I haven't read Heidegger, Bogart and I know nothing of post-modern Christianity but it is quite flattering that you think my views are derivative since they are entirely my own and so I take that as a compliment. Smiley


    I didn't mean to imply it was derivative, copied or inspired by. My opening was more tongue in cheek than not. Similar ideas can develop completely separate, history shows this happens. I like both approaches as it acknowledges the individual as primary not orthodoxy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #175 - March 30, 2016, 11:17 PM

    Who says *verily* in normal speech??

    Have you traveled here by time-machine?


    God says verily. That poster must be God.

    That's all the EVIDENCE I need that God exists. He's posted on CEMB forums.

    PRAISE THEE!!!!!

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #176 - March 31, 2016, 04:19 AM

    I didn't mean to imply it was derivative, copied or inspired by. My opening was more tongue in cheek than not. Similar ideas can develop completely separate, history shows this happens. I like both approaches as it acknowledges the individual as primary not orthodoxy.


     Afro

    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #177 - March 26, 2017, 11:03 AM

    It makes life easier amongst my Muslim family and friends. But also because Islam has without doubt been a major influence on me for half a century.

    To make your life easier amongst your Muslim family and friends... Is not that the main reason? It's legitimate and understandable
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #178 - March 26, 2017, 11:08 AM

    What is an Agnostic Muslim?

    Agnostic Muslim is in contradiction with islam and with Shahada
    I testify, I acknowledge,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahada
  • What is an Agnostic Muslim?
     Reply #179 - March 26, 2017, 11:25 AM


    I was born Muslim and have been a practising Muslim for 50 years, but I lost my faith about 7 or 8 years ago & have been struggling with this ever since.

    This sentence shows that you remained Muslim somewhere


     is also a pragmatic choice as it makes life easier amongst my Muslim family and friends

    It's understandable and legitimate

    At the same time I believe it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God and while I consider the Qur'an a remarkable work with a great deal of wisdom,

    It is easy to demonstrate that the god of the Koran is an invention of Muhammad and that the Qur'an is not a remarkable work


    I accept it was inspired, but this inspiration came through the mind and the person of the Prophet and he played role in composing it.

    There is no evidence (or no text) that Muhammad was inspired
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