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 Topic: The Armenian genocide a hundred years on

 (Read 23618 times)
  • 12 3 ... 5 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     OP - March 23, 2015, 02:54 PM

    A hundred years since the start of the Armenian genocide, article by Geoffrey Robertson.
    Just before the invasion of Poland, Adolf Hitler urged his generals to show no mercy towards its people – there would be no retribution, because “after all, who now remembers the annihilation of the Armenians?” As the centenary of the Armenian genocide approaches – it began on 24 April 1915, with the rounding up and subsequent “disappearance” of intellectuals and community leaders in Constantinople – remembrance of the destruction of more than half of the Armenian people is more important than ever....

    Read on:

    Geoffrey Robertson wrote this legal opinion on the genocide in 2009:

    He's also written a book about it:

    The British government's view:
    Ahead of the Centenary of the Armenian Massacres in 2015,
    should HMG change its current policy of non-recognition of the massacres as genocide?
    We recommend that we maintain our current policy on non-recognition of the massacres as genocide

    Turkey is marking the date by moving the Gallipoli Day commemoration from 25 April to 24 April. Robert Fisk comments:
    .... in an unprecedented act of diplomatic folly, Turkey is planning to use the 100th anniversary of the Allied attempt to invade Turkey in 1915 to smother memory of its own mass killing of the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire, the 20th century’s first semi-industrial holocaust. The Turks have already sent invitations to 102 nations to attend the Gallipoli anniversary on 24th April — on the very day when Armenia always honours its own genocide victims at the hands of Ottoman Turkey....

  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #1 - March 23, 2015, 03:29 PM

    Interview with Fetiye Cetin:
    Cetin was born in Maden, Elazig (an eastern province of Turkey) in 1950. Her maternal grandmother, Seher, chose Cetin to reveal her long-hidden secret: she was an Armenian rescued from the 1915 death march by a soldier and adopted by his family. Her real name was Heranush, and in 1915 she was about 10 years old. After the Armenians left, their towns' names were changed, as were orphans’ names. Seher was raised as a Turk and Muslim. After Seher passed away in 2000, Cetin published an obituary for her in the weekly Agos, the voice of the Turkish Armenian community. Cetin was good friends with the editor and owner of Agos, Hrant Dink (who was killed in 2007). This obituary reached across the ocean and was seen by Seher's younger sister and cousins, the Gadaryan family, who called Agos. Cetin was able to meet them in New York. In 2004, Cetin published a groundbreaking book, “My Grandmother,” narrating her grandmother’s story....

    Interview with Meline Toumani:
    Writer Meline Toumani grew up in a tight-knit Armenian community in New Jersey. There, identity centered on commemorating the mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks during World War I, a history that's resulted in tense relations between Armenians and Turks to this day. In her new book, There Was and There Was Not, Toumani recounts her attempts to understand Turkey and the Turkish people — people she was always taught were her bitter enemy. She also explores what she calls the Armenian community's "obsession" with genocide recognition, which she herself harbored....

    Interview with Ece Temelkuran:
    Ece Temelkuran’s latest book Deep Mountain: Across the Turkish-Armenian Divide explores the history and continuing discussion surrounding the Armenian Genocide in Armenia, Turkey, France, and the United States. The project, which was borne from conversations the author had with Hrant Dink, the late editor of Agos newspaper, probes deeper into this situation by interviewing a wide range of Armenian writers, thinkers, and activists including Armenian poet Silva Gaboudikian, musician Arto Tuncboyajian, and filmmaker Serge Avedikian. A well-known journalist and political commentator in Turkey, Temelkuran writes regularly for the Turkish newspaper Haberturk and has won numerous awards for her work, including the Pen for Peace Award and Turkish Journalist of the Year....

    Taner Akçam - From Empire to Republic: Turkish Nationalism and the Armenian Genocide
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #2 - April 03, 2015, 12:20 PM

    I'm reading Robertson't book. What is noticeable is how modern Turkey gets away with lying about the genocide.

    Free speech is the source of most other freedoms
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #3 - April 06, 2015, 12:20 AM

    Robert Fisk - The Christian tragedy in the Middle East did not begin with Isis
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #4 - April 09, 2015, 08:34 AM

    We should expect nothing less from Turkish government.

    Anyway, I've been in Turkey and there's such a propaganda and brain washing about this issue. I spoke with non religious, open minded guys and they said that it was not a genocide, that they acted in self defense, defending the country against Russia and Armenian traitors which have allied with the enemy.

    The amazing thing is that many in Turkey consider what Israel is doing now to Palestinians a genocide.
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #5 - April 09, 2015, 10:25 AM

    Yes, I recognise this too. Not so long ago in a discussion on another forum about this topic, someone went so far as to say it wasn't a genocide because the word didn't exist at the time.
    In the discussion participated another Dutch Turk who always has strong words to say about Israel, but in this discussion he came up with virtually every excuse possible: that the Turks were being attacked, that the Armenians did wrong things too, that there was no official ruling by the government to wipe out Armenians, that the taking of women and children by the Turks shows that they didn't have the intention of genocide, that other groups were being located too because there were doubts about their loyalty and bla bla bla. This is also a person who goes on and on about the Dutch having to say sorry over and over for slavery, but now he said, the Turks who live now don't have anything to do with the whole thing, so they don't have to apologise.

    I was flabbergasted.
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #6 - April 09, 2015, 11:59 AM

    Apologising for slavery can get fucked. Just be sure not to make the same mistakes again.
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #7 - April 09, 2015, 12:46 PM

    This is interesting on Armenian - Kurdish relations in Diyarbakir:

    A Century of Silence
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #8 - April 12, 2015, 10:54 PM

    Turkey anger at Pope Francis Armenian 'genocide' claim    says BBC news

    Turkey has recalled its envoy to the Vatican after Pope Francis described the mass killing of Armenians under Ottoman rule in WW1 as "genocide". Turkey has reacted with anger to the comment made by the Pope at a service in Rome earlier on Sunday. Armenia and many historians say up to 1.5 million people were killed by Ottoman forces in 1915.

    But Turkey has always disputed that figure and said the deaths were part of a civil conflict triggered by WW1. The row has continued to sour relations between Armenia and Turkey.
    The Pope made the comments at a Mass in the Armenian Catholic rite at Peter's Basilica, attended by the Armenian president and church leaders.
    He said that humanity had lived through "three massive and unprecedented tragedies" in the last century. "The first, which is widely considered 'the first genocide of the 20th Century', struck your own Armenian people," he said, in a form of words used by a declaration by Pope John Paul II in 2001. Pope Francis also referred to the crimes "perpetrated by Nazism and Stalinism" and said other genocides had followed in Cambodia, Rwanda, Burundi and Bosnia.

    He said it was his duty to honour the memories of those who were killed.
    "Concealing or denying evil is like allowing a wound to keep bleeding without bandaging it," the Pope added. Armenia's President Serzh Sargsyan welcomed his comments, saying they sent a powerful message to the international community. But Turkey immediately summoned the Vatican's ambassador to Ankara for an explanation, and then later recalled its ambassador from Rome.

    The foreign ministry said it felt "great disappointment and sadness" at the Pope's remarks, which it said would cause a "problem of trust" between them.
    Turkey's Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu tweeted: "The Pope's statement, which is far from the legal and historical reality, cannot be accepted. "Religious authorities are not the places to incite resentment and hatred with baseless allegations," he added.

    Political conflict'

    In 2014, for the first time, Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan offered condolences to the grandchildren of all the Armenians who lost their lives.
    But he also said that it was inadmissible for Armenia to turn the issue "into a matter of political conflict".

    Armenia says up to 1.5 million people died in 1915-16 as the Ottoman empire split. Turkey has said the number of deaths was much smaller. Most non-Turkish scholars of the events regard them as genocide. Among the other states which formally recognise them as genocide are Argentina, Belgium, Canada, France, Italy, Russia and Uruguay.

    Turkey maintains that many of the dead were killed in clashes during World War I, and that ethnic Turks also suffered in the conflict.

    well that is the news..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #9 - April 12, 2015, 11:15 PM

    Turkey embarks on restoration efforts of Armenian churches
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #10 - April 12, 2015, 11:34 PM
    April 24 has been commemorated in Istanbul as a public event since 2010, and the commemoration will expand on the 100th anniversary of the Genocide. Jointly organized by DurDe, one of Turkey’s leading civil and human rights organizations, working to combat racism, nationalism and hate crimes, and the Project 2015 group, a US-based network formed to commemorate 24 April, the organizations are working to ensure that a large contingent of Armenians come to Turkey for the historic centennial commemoration.

    “As Armenians, we are going to Istanbul to memorialize the brutal massacre of our family members, and to remind the world that 100 years later, we are still seeking justice and accountability from the Turkish government,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, board member of Project 2015. “Commemorating the Armenian Genocide in the place where the crimes took place will be a deeply meaningful experience,” added Nancy Kricorian, another Project 2015 board member. “Our presence in Istanbul will be a form of resistance to erasure and denial.”

    Levent Şensever of the DurDe group explained, “As Turks, we want to express our solidarity with Armenians as we pay our respects to the victims and survivors of this terrible crime, and press our government to recognize the genocide,” and added, “We want to demonstrate to the world that while the Turkish government may not be ready to come to terms with this country’s past, we as citizens of Turkey are ready.”

    As in previous years, the commemoration will begin in Taksim, and will also include a memorial service at Şișli Armenian Apostolic Cemetery, where Sevag Şahin Balıkçı is buried. Balıkçı was murdered on April 24, 2011 while serving in the Turkish military.

  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #11 - April 12, 2015, 11:45 PM

    Armenians call for German apology on genocide issue
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #12 - April 13, 2015, 12:10 AM

    Review of Ece Temelkuran's Deep Mountain: Across the Turkish-Armenian Divide
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #13 - April 13, 2015, 10:35 AM

    An excellent radio interview with Ece Temelkuran, recorded last year. Do listen to this.
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #14 - April 13, 2015, 09:12 PM

    April 24 Istanbul and Diyarbakır commemoration programs announced
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #15 - April 13, 2015, 09:31 PM

    Interview with Turkish anthropologist Salim Aykut Öztürk on Armenians from Istanbul and Armenia
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #16 - April 13, 2015, 11:35 PM

    Suzanne Khardalians - Grandma's Tattoos
    Documentary on the Armenian genocide
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #17 - April 14, 2015, 02:25 AM

    Horrible and compunded by Turkey's continuing denial.
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #18 - April 15, 2015, 01:49 PM

    Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has strongly criticized the pope for describing the 1915 mass killing of Armenians as genocide. Ankara also has recalled its ambassador from the Vatican.

    Davutoglu condemned Pope Francis for his comments Sunday in which he described the 1915 mass killings of Armenians by Turkey’s then-Ottoman rulers as genocide. Davutoglu called those comments one-sided.

    He said to read these sorrows in a one-sided way is inappropriate for the pope and the authority that he holds.

    Ankara argues that the number of Armenians claimed to be killed is exaggerated, and that those who died did so during a civil war. The pope made his comments during a special Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the killings, with Armenian spiritual leaders in attendance. The Turkish prime minister accused the pope of prejudice.

    He said we would expect the religious leaders to call for peace. Opening archives for those whose hearts are sealed serves no purpose.

    The Turkish leader went on to warn that the pontiff’s comments could lead to greater Islamaphobia against Muslims living in Europe....
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #19 - April 17, 2015, 04:07 PM


    Disagreeing with the official version can be interpreted as a crime in Turkey, and brings other risks, too. Hrant Dink, an intrepid Turkish newspaper editor of Armenian extraction, was shot dead by a nationalist teenager in 2007 after revealing that Sabiha Gokcen, the adopted daughter of Kemal Ataturk, modern Turkey’s founder, was an Armenian who had been orphaned during the genocide. There is mounting evidence that rogue security officials orchestrated his killing.

    The crime proved a surprising turning point. Over 100,000 people, many of whom had probably never heard of Mr Dink before, attended his funeral. The wall of denial began to collapse. Books cataloguing the horrors endured by the Armenians, such as “Black Dog of Fate” by Peter Balakian, Grigoris Balakian’s great-nephew, are now available in Turkish. The government has begun, albeit slowly, to hand back confiscated Armenian church properties. A year ago Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the president, became the first Turkish leader to acknowledge Armenian suffering under the Ottoman empire when he offered condolences. Three big political parties, including Mr Erdogan’s own Justice and Development party (AK), are fielding Armenian candidates for winnable seats in the election on June 7th, a first.

    Turkey’s Kurdish leaders have formally apologised for their people’s role in the massacres. In the Kurdish-dominated province of Diyarbakir, where Armenians once made up almost half the population, the district of Sur is offering free Armenian lessons. In the neighbouring province of Sirnak, some “hidden Armenians”, whose ancestors converted to Islam to avoid being killed, celebrated Easter this year with other locals, both Christians and Muslims.

    Both in Armenia, where nearly half the population is descended from Ottoman Armenians, and in the diaspora, long-nursed grievances are beginning to give way to curiosity about the “old country”. Hundreds are coming to Istanbul and Diyarbakir for commemorative events around the centenary. Khatchig Mouradian, an ethnic Armenian born in Lebanon who now lives in America, organises “pilgrimages” for far-flung Armenians to “Western Armenia” (their name for eastern Turkey). Armed with long-guarded hand-drawn maps, they seek out their ancestors’ homes and pray at ruined monasteries for their souls.

    But the thaw goes only so far. In previous years Turkey has commemorated the allied landings at Gallipoli in 1915 on April 25th. This year it is shifting events to April 24th, some say to distract from the centenary of the Armenian massacres. An art installation planned in Geneva to mark the Armenian centenary has been blocked by the Swiss government—because of Turkish pressure, insiders say.

    In Syria, Turkey is accused of standing by or even helping Islamist rebels to take cities including Kobane and the mainly Armenian border town of Kassab, which fell last March. Kassab has since come back under the control of Bashar Assad’s regime, allowing residents to return. But the episode revived bitter memories of the final spasm of violence in 1916, when tens of thousands of Armenians camped in the desert province of Deir ez-Zor were slaughtered. It will take more than condolences to heal such deep wounds.
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #20 - April 17, 2015, 04:27 PM

    Erdoğan threatens to deport Armenian citizens in Turkey


    Speaking to reporters before his departure to Kazakhstan for an official visit, Erdoğan also criticized the European Parliament (EP), which was set to vote to acknowledge the 1915 events as genocide on Wednesday in its plenary session.

    Downplaying the importance of the EP's vote, Erdoğan said that regardless of the outcome, Turkey will not take it seriously and the EP's decision will go “in one ear and out the other” for Turkey and that it is not possible for Turkey to accept responsibility for such a crime. The president added that the roughly 100,000 Armenian nationals working in Turkey are not Turkish citizens and that the country can deport them if it wants to. “We can deport them, even if we haven't yet,” he said.

    President Erdoğan also said that he does not have to defend Turkey's position because the country has no stain on its conscience such as genocide. He added that he does not understand why the media or the Turkish nation adopt a defensive position on this matter and that if one includes Turkish citizens of Armenian origin, there are in total 120,000 Armenians living in Turkey and that they all have access to public services.

    Since independence from the Soviet Union, Armenia has struggled with economic problems and Turkey is one of the best options for thousands of Armenians to live and work.

    This is not the first time that Erdoğan has brought up the deportation threat for Armenians. He expressed the same idea back in 2010 and asked the Armenian diaspora, which has been actively working around the world to lobby governments to acknowledge that the 1915 events constitute genocide, to act responsively.

  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #21 - April 17, 2015, 04:54 PM

    He added that he does not understand why the media or the Turkish nation adopt a defensive position on this matter

    Funny. That seems exactly the position that he's taking with these recent boneheaded remarks. Not even the slightest bit of grace in addressing the issue.

    how fuck works without shit??

    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #22 - April 17, 2015, 05:23 PM

    Accounts of Ottoman officials who opposed the 1915 genocide

    Those who defied orders in Diyarbekir

    'Since I won’t commit these murders, please accept my resignation!'

    ‘If you are sending me there to deport the Armenians, I can’t do that!’
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #23 - April 19, 2015, 03:56 PM

    A Century After Armenian Genocide, Turkey’s Denial Only Deepens
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #24 - April 19, 2015, 05:49 PM

    And the reason for that is because of the present Turkish Islamic fools who are ruling the country think/imagine  that the  West  has some ulterior motives    in promoting   Armenian Genocide ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #25 - April 20, 2015, 05:04 PM

    Professor Chomsky Lecture with MIT Armenian Society

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #26 - April 20, 2015, 09:20 PM

    Robert Fisk - To continue to deny the truth of this mass human cruelty is close to a criminal lie
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #27 - April 21, 2015, 09:45 AM

    From Bruce Clark's review
    In this, the centenary year of the horrors suffered by the Ottoman Armenians, many readers will turn immediately to those events to see how Rogan negotiates the contesting versions.

    It is not in question that from April 1915 onward, Armenian subjects of the Ottoman Empire died horribly in enormous numbers. The American administration, which for diplomatic reasons still balks at using the word genocide, accepts that as many as 1.5 million perished. It is on record that in May 1915, a law was passed calling for the “relocation” of the entire Armenian population of eastern Anatolia; nor does anybody seriously question that this became a death march whose victims were killed by their guards, attacked by others or perished from exhaustion and starvation.

    But there is a more contentious charge, and in a few succinct lines, Rogan affirms it. He agrees that in addition to ordering a vast, brutal internal deportation, the Committee of Union of Progress, the shadowy institution that was directing the Ottoman war effort, issued unwritten orders for the mass murder of the deportees.

    Secret, oral orders are hard to prove or disprove, but Rogan accepts the case for their existence made by the Turkish scholar Taner Akcam. This book uses words like “annihilation” and “massacre” more often than “genocide” but does not avoid the g-word. As he explains in a footnote, Rogan employs the term genocide in support of the “courageous efforts” of Turkish historians and writers to “force an honest reckoning with Turkey’s past.”

    At the same time, the book makes many of the arguments that qualified defenders of the Ottoman record point to: for example, that in winter 1914 and spring 1915, there was fierce fighting in eastern Anatolia between Turks and Armenians; sometimes the Armenians fought alone, and sometimes with Russian help. In Istanbul, at the same time, Turkish officialdom’s fear of an “enemy within” was running high because local Armenians were suspected of favoring Britain’s plans to advance on the city.

    All that provides some psychological background to the drive against the Armenian population. So too does the huge Turkish loss of life, from cold and disease as well as bullets, during and after the Russian victory at Sarakamis in December 1914. But Rogan does not for a moment suggest that this amounts to a moral justification of the horrors the Armenians endured. To stress, as some Turkish versions of the story do, that this was a period involving tragic suffering on all sides is valid as far as it goes, but it is not an adequate statement. It is to Rogan’s credit that he acknowledges this....
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #28 - April 21, 2015, 10:09 AM

    Centennial of the Armenian Genocide: Recognition and Reconciliation
  • The Armenian genocide a hundred years on
     Reply #29 - April 21, 2015, 03:11 PM

    I've been reading up more on this issue in the past few months, and perversely, the majority of the dozen or so Western academics who deny "genocide" appear to be Jewish men (and only men), including Bernard Lewis. I'm not sure if it's out of some desire to maintain the uniqueness of the Holocaust, or to try to somehow aid Israel by defending Turkey, but for Jewish academics to denigrate a people that have suffered as much persecution as the Armenians just to defend an unreliable Muslim ally to Israel seems especially cruel and senseless.

    I've not yet been to Eastern Turkey, but I have been to Eastern Europe and been saddened by seeing the traces of what was once clearly a rich and thriving Jewish culture that is now vanished, with the only Jews to be found in the cemetery. I'd imagine that if I ever visited the ruined churches of eastern Turkey I'd feel the same way.
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