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 Topic: So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"

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  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     OP - March 12, 2015, 10:51 AM
    I disagree with the term but lets run with it since it is a popular cultural term.
    (I prefer Ultra Orthodox Muslim)

    I am curious, would you?
    Can anyone provide me with a decent challenge?
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #1 - March 12, 2015, 11:44 AM
    No never. The world view and values are too appalling for me to ignore. And honestly, I know even if I wanted the friendship the other person would not count me as a real friend but nothing else than a dawah project. I would most probably be discarded at one point or the other.

    Not to mention, what the hell would we be doing? Staying inside and/or talk about kids 24/7? No cafes, no movies, no concerts, no gymming, no nothing. Haram this haram that and no mixing. No thanks.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #2 - March 12, 2015, 11:51 AM
    Quote from: Cornflower on March 12, 2015, 11:44 AM
    No never. The world view and values are too appalling for me to ignore. And honestly, I know even if I wanted the friendship the other person would not count me as a real friend but nothing else than a dawah project. I would most probably be discarded at one point or the other.

    Not to mention, what the hell would we be doing? Staying inside and/or talk about kids 24/7? No cafes, no movies, no concerts, no gymming, no nothing. Haram this haram that and no mixing. No thanks.


    I don't think that would be the case if the person actually befriended you. After all mixing with an ex muslim is the equivalent to the shaytaan and would corrupt their deen. but for them to go beyond that implies they are comfortable enough about themselves and thus would not impose restrictions upon you, but only themselves.
    Can anyone provide me with a decent challenge?
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #3 - March 12, 2015, 01:00 PM
    That's why I would never believe an "Islamist" actually thought of me as a real friend, but as a dawah project, if she ever tried to interact with me on a friendly basis. What you're talking about is just a hypothetical situation. I've spent 10 years with orthodox Muslims, or "Islamists", and I know for a fact that none of them ever had non Muslim friends nor would they ever befriend a non Muslim.

    And BTW what do you mean restrictions on themselves? You still can't sit with people who drink, or go to places where they mix for example. They would never be able to interact with you like normally, because if you're really talking about a real orthodox Muslim, how would you spend time with a non Muslim? In the masjid, in halaqas? Dinner "parties" in their house (only halal and non alcoholic of course)? There isn't much you can do, as a Muslim orthodox woman, much less if you're doing it with a non Muslim...
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #4 - March 12, 2015, 01:15 PM
    When I was at my most religious period, one of my closest friends was and still is an exmuslim of pakistani origin. My best friend was a Syrian christian and another friend had an exmuslim father.Two of them would criticize Islam and we'd debate, but it never made me question our friendship or Islam. Im not sure what you would mean by islamist, but I was certainly very religious and a committed muslim.
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #5 - March 12, 2015, 01:30 PM
    When you say orthodox Muslim, I think of Muslims who actually live by Islamic rules and principles 24/7. I would've probably had a whole list of things you did and lived that were not ok. Perhaps "salafi" is more suitable to describe my definition of orthodox Muslim. You're also a man, so you had more room and space to move in from the get-go.

    The only type of Muslim I would see as potential friendship material is someone who lives like any other normal person minus the pork and booze (non halal slaughtered food is still ok), and who never brings up religion and Islam in conversation. Basically, just a normal person who wants to be a good person and live life happily without any of the dogma and religious bs to contaminate it.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #6 - March 12, 2015, 02:09 PM
    ^I have a relative who was a salafi, and he was horrified of the fact that I merely had a christian friend. So it really depends on what type of muslim it is. In my case, I wasn't a secularist, but I followed an interpretation of Islam that maybe considered is in the process of liberalization as a result of muslim experience in the West.
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #7 - March 12, 2015, 02:26 PM
    Orthodox is orthodox. If we're talking about a liberal moderate fake ikhwani type of Muslim, then I do believe they would be genuine friends. Just that all the religious package you would have to handle would be too much of a nausience for me to even bother.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #8 - March 12, 2015, 03:33 PM
    Ikhwani...yep....though not the saudi ikhwaan Tongue
    also it isn't necessarily the same  for everyone who'd be called 'ikhwani' when it comes to befriending exmuslims, though it could be true for most...and certainly befriending non muslims in general wouldn't be a problem as it is for the salafists. and other orthodox groups.
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #9 - March 12, 2015, 03:53 PM
    Orthodox Muslims, or "salafis", use "ikhwan" as a derogatory term to refer to Muslims who don't take their religion seriously and who change their religious practice according to the kuffar and society instead of going after what their religion says irregardless of the kuffar and their fasad. Basically every liberal-ish and moderate-ish Muslim who likes to say "I think" or "I interpret". No you mofo, it's not what you think or interpret, it's what allah, his prophet and the recognized scholars of ahl al sunnah wa jamaah says and interpret.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #10 - March 12, 2015, 04:06 PM
    No orthodox muslim, male or female, would want to be my friend. I am a whore in their eyes.
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #11 - March 12, 2015, 04:16 PM
    lol I'd rather be a so called "whore" drinking khamr and consuming khanzeer, than go back to that morally and intellectually retarded lifestyle I had as a "good Muslim woman"
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #12 - March 12, 2015, 05:18 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on March 12, 2015, 03:53 PM
    Orthodox Muslims, or "salafis"

     

    Salafi muslim and orthodox muslim are often conflated as being the same thing. Which is why I thought my family might be salafi given their religious fundamentalism.

    My extended family is not salafi but they are super orthodox sunni deobandi muslims.

    If you put them in a room with a salafi they might disagree on some irrelevant theological issues like taqlid but they believe in the exact same quran and hadiths so there is not really much of a difference in their mentality at the end of the day.

    They wear niqabs, gender segregation, marriage as early as possible, shun befriending non muslims, focus on zabiha halal food etc. just like the salafis do.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #13 - March 12, 2015, 06:36 PM
    Why shouldn't you have an Islamist friend (surely most muslims, and ex-muslims, know quite a few anyway, or related to, etc)? Or an Anarchist, or Republican, IRA supporter, Fundie Christian? If you like someone, and get on, when should it bother you what their ideological persuasions are? I mean, we're not talking about living with them, are we?
    Ha Ha.
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #14 - March 12, 2015, 07:25 PM
    I was a strict sunni muslim, and I tried to avoid the kuffar, but I didn't avoid them completely. I was just making sure that they didn't become my best friends.
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #15 - March 12, 2015, 07:48 PM
    I have some relatively devout Muslim acquaintances and one ex-Muslim friend who was never devout.  I cannot imagine being close to an Islamist, though; it would be akin to having fundamentalist Christians as friends.  We have nothing in common, really.   
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #16 - March 12, 2015, 07:59 PM
    Some petty aqeedah issues are irrelevant here. Deobandi, salafi, wahabi, whatever label or category. Who cares whether the Quran was created or uncreated speech of allah? What's important here, and what they all share those who could be put in the same large and general group of "orthodoxy" or "literalist/fundamentalism" or even the term "islamist", is that they share the same values in issues that affect the everyday interaction whether they be men, women, gay or straight, Muslim or non-Muslim. So like TDR said, they still don't mix; they still all follow (very strictly so) the rules and regulations; and they still believe in the al walaa wa al baraa dogma; and they still hold sexist, homophobic, misogynistic views.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #17 - March 12, 2015, 11:52 PM
    I'd give it a go, but whether or not I stay friends with them would be a more interesting question.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #18 - March 13, 2015, 12:11 AM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on March 12, 2015, 06:36 PM
    Why shouldn't you have an Islamist friend (surely most muslims, and ex-muslims, know quite a few anyway, or related to, etc)? Or an Anarchist, or Republican, IRA supporter, Fundie Christian? If you like someone, and get on, when should it bother you what their ideological persuasions are?

    I always thought that Specials song, Racist Friend, was bollocks. Friendship almost always comes with boundaries and qualifications.
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #19 - March 13, 2015, 12:27 AM
    I can't be friends with someone who believes that in an ideal world, I should be killed.
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #20 - March 13, 2015, 02:13 AM
    What HM said. I don't mind religious friends, so long as they don't try to convert me or expect me to agree with them. I just cannot imagine that any devout Muslim would want to be friends with me, knowing I am apostate. I am very good at being quiet, but that does not mean I would do so for their sake.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #21 - March 13, 2015, 02:15 AM
    Quote from: David on March 13, 2015, 12:11 AM
    Friendship almost always comes with boundaries and qualifications.

     

    Exactly.  
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #22 - March 13, 2015, 06:20 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on March 13, 2015, 12:27 AM
    I can't be friends with someone who believes that in an ideal world, I should be killed.

    And the prize for spotting the elephant in the room regarding this thread title from an ex muslim p.o.v goes to . . . The point is in an Islamist's ideal world the apostate should be killed, kind of makes the building blocks for such a friendship very unlikely. Sort of like a lion befriending a gazelle.
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #23 - March 13, 2015, 06:28 PM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on March 12, 2015, 06:36 PM
    Why shouldn't you have an Islamist friend (surely most....ex-muslims, know quite a few anyway,

     

    And just my limited exposure to my islamist relatives is already enough to give me a headache. I put islamists in the same category as white supremacists and neo nazis.

    They are only capable of maintaining relationships with people who share their extremely deluded and ill informed view of the world.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #24 - March 13, 2015, 06:29 PM
    We ought to be killed only in an ideal Islamic state, remember that Roll Eyes But as for now, we are still potential dawah projects except for the most rigid and hardcore intolerant Islamists... but even for those who would initially see us as dawah project, would dump and discard us as soon as they noticed we were not really into it or interested. Same rules for the mubtadi', you only shun him or her when it's obvious they are persistent in their bidah with no real prospect of them making tawbah. Aaaah the pure wisdom of shariah, alhamdulillaah 'ala kulli shay.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #25 - March 13, 2015, 06:41 PM
    Re; 'ought only to be killed' point, that's good to know. Alhamdulillah . . .Kulla Shaka.
  • So would any of you befriend an "Islamist"
     Reply #26 - March 19, 2015, 10:33 AM
    A few interesting responses.
    Can anyone provide me with a decent challenge?
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