Islamophobia?

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- Quod Sum Eris
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Islamophobia?
Reply #30 - March 17, 2015, 01:20 AM

It's fine for a never-been-muslim to join, quite a few members are (one of them being me). Care to make an introduction? Just click New Topic.

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?board=2.0

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- Quod Sum Eris
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Reply #31 - March 17, 2015, 01:25 AM

I make a distinction between islamophobia and anti-muslim bigotry. There are many things in islam I find wicked. There are things in the quran and hadiths that offend me, not as an atheist but as a human being. If I'm an islamophobe because of that, so be it. I'm also a christianophobe, a judaismophobe, and plentlyofotherthingsophobe. You can say all these things but you can't say I'm an anti-muslim bigot, nor an anti-christian bigot, nor an anti-semite.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- lua
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Islamophobia?
Reply #32 - March 17, 2015, 01:26 AM

Ed, welcome. I was also going to say I'd like to see an intro post from you, but...I just googled you. Still, a TL;DR intro would be really interesting. I'll have to save going through your blog for when I have more time.

Actually, a lot of our really valuable contributors have never been Muslim. There's usually a few of them keeping some very interesting and ongoing threads about history and language alive. And it sounds like you've had an adventure with your apostasy, as well, and regardless of the religion, I think we all have a lot of overlapping experiences and a lot to share and discuss.

Thanks for your kind words, and I hope to at least see you around every now and then!
- serpentofeden
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Reply #33 - March 17, 2015, 04:16 PM

Wrote my thoughts on the term islamophobia in a previous post

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=24344.msg783688#msg783688
- zeca
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Islamophobia?
Reply #34 - March 17, 2015, 04:45 PM

I'd add orientalism to the list of problem words - as used by both leftists and Islamic apologists to shut down debate.

Which side are you on?
- serpentofeden
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Reply #35 - March 17, 2015, 05:32 PM

^^ When someone shrieks "Orientalism" or "Orientalist" I don't see it at all as a pertinent point, pointing out someone studies the Orient is not a criticism.
- Rob
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Islamophobia?
Reply #36 - March 18, 2015, 11:17 AM

Quote from: zeca on March 17, 2015, 04:45 PM
I'd add orientalism to the list of problem words - as used by both leftists and Islamic apologists to shut down debate.

really? in what context? I haven't heard that one before, i can't imagine what the point would be.
- David
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Reply #37 - March 18, 2015, 12:06 PM

Quote from: zeca on March 17, 2015, 04:45 PM
I'd add orientalism to the list of problem words - as used by both leftists and Islamic apologists to shut down debate.

Totally agree.

What's more, the Arab world can only tenuously be described as the Orient. Go East, all ye finger-pointing Puritans, and if ye should manage to cross the Japan Sea, pop in for a beer.
- yeezevee
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Reply #38 - March 18, 2015, 12:54 PM

Quote
Quote from: zeca on March 17, 2015, 04:45 PM
I'd add orientalism to the list of problem words - as used by both leftists and Islamic apologists to shut down debate.

Quote from: Rob on March 18, 2015, 11:17 AM
really? in what context? I haven't heard that one before, i can't imagine what the point would be.

Quote from: David on March 18, 2015, 12:06 PM
Totally agree.

What's more, the Arab world can only tenuously be described as the Orient. Go East, all ye finger-pointing Puritans, and if ye should manage to cross the Japan Sea, pop in for a beer.

orientalism is a silly word originated during colonialism from western historians and popularized in 20th century as more and more human population/cultures started migrating across the globe. Since 2nd world war it has been addressed as the study of Near and Far-Eastern societies and cultures and it is often used for imitation or depiction of aspects of Eastern cultures such as Kings, Caliphs in the West by writers, designers and artists.. That is all what it is ..

I guess since 1980s that book of Edawrd Said

popularized that word .. well click the pic to read the book

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Islamophobia?
Reply #39 - March 18, 2015, 12:58 PM

Thanks for that, Yeez. I had no idea.
- zeca
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Reply #40 - March 18, 2015, 01:52 PM

Edward Said has a lot to answer for.

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- TheDashingRabbit
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Reply #41 - March 18, 2015, 02:36 PM

@lily

Agree with this part of the quote.

Quote
lionsingh • 2 hours ago

Many immigrant groups have settled in the UK and have integrated and done well with some of their customs being adopted by the UK . However seems to be one religious group that refuses to and all we get is bang,bang then blame.

Muslim parents do whatever they can to prevent their children from mixing with "non believers". This is not the case for almost all other immigrant groups who gradually integrate themselves through socializing and intermarriage.

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
- bogart
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Reply #42 - March 18, 2015, 03:49 PM

Jews have isolated themselves as well. Hence why one can draw a parallel between Muslims and Jews within a host society. Both has isolated themselves from the host culture. For that matter such isolation of different people from other groups is basic tribalism which is ancient. Some nations promote assimilation with others promote multiculturalism. Prairie towns in Canada are a prime example of cultural isolation. However once transportation such as road systems and the railroad were developed this isolation died out. My hometown was a transportation hub so never had this sort of isolation. However the smaller settlements around the town were culture or national isolated from other groups.

http://esask.uregina.ca/entry/german_settlements.html
- Lilyesque
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Islamophobia?
Reply #43 - March 18, 2015, 04:18 PM

At least the isolated Jews don't want special treatment.
- TheDashingRabbit
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Islamophobia?
Reply #44 - March 18, 2015, 04:27 PM

It's one thing to be isolated by geography because you live in a small town and quite another to actively segregate your children when living in one of the most populated, diverse and multicultural cities in the entire country. I'm referring to Toronto and surrounding cities..

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
- Quod Sum Eris
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Reply #45 - March 18, 2015, 06:20 PM

Quote from: Lilyesque on March 18, 2015, 04:18 PM
At least the isolated Jews don't want special treatment.

Yes they do.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- bogart
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Reply #46 - March 18, 2015, 06:35 PM

Quote from: Lilyesque on March 18, 2015, 04:18 PM
At least the isolated Jews don't want special treatment.

By having various states declare Jews are a race this is special treatment. Such a standard of "race" became laws in a number of nations. To take a small group of people which really have no genetic differences from the majority of people in the ME is special treatment to the point of absurdity. One can take an sort of shared culture and declare themselves a race this way. New Yorkers are a race as are their descendants. Scots are a race since they are different than the English. Etc.

Not everyone asks for this special treatment but leaders within the community have no issues with these standards, they are not asking for the standard to be removed as a majority. Also many of their leaders promoted these ideas to begin with. Humans are not big on giving up privileges once we have them. Look at some Christian groups speaking in defense of government officials who have violated the Constitution by incorporating religion into schools, councils, etc. Look at issues with marriage. Every state which has banned same-sex marriage has been dragged to court usually ending up in the Federal system. The end result is the same in every case, the ban is illegal.

All these examples are people using religious interpretations or doctrine which filters their views of rights, privileges, special treatment, etc.
- Quod Sum Eris
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Reply #47 - March 18, 2015, 06:38 PM

Not even that but religious courts, exceptions in animal cruelty law, special practices much of society finds unacceptable, etc. They just don't routinely demand non jews abide by jewish sensibilities.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- bogart
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Islamophobia?
Reply #48 - March 18, 2015, 06:55 PM

Quote from: TheDarkRebel on March 18, 2015, 04:27 PM
It's one thing to be isolated by geography because you live in a small town and quite another to actively segregate your children when living in one of the most populated, diverse and multicultural cities in the entire country. I'm referring to Toronto and surrounding cities..

These towns were not that isolated by large distances, geographical barriers or transportation limits. The railroad system was the basis of many of these settlements. They required the same system to sell excess crops at market as the hubs were market towns and surplus distribution. They came to the area on this system, they arrived in hubs which was diverse and choose to move to an area which matched their cultural views. This was a choice of why and where to settle by individuals. They isolated themselves by choice regardless of settlement size.

British Columbia is an example of geographical isolation. Many of the First Nations were cultural isolated due to the terrain. This was not the case of the plains.
- bogart
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Reply #49 - March 18, 2015, 07:02 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on March 18, 2015, 06:38 PM
Not even that but religious courts, exceptions in animal cruelty law, special practices much of society finds unacceptable, etc. They just don't routinely demand non jews abide by jewish sensibilities.

I am not a fan of religious exceptions which go beyond the person. Animals go beyond the individual thus I find such exceptions to be unjust. Maybe I should convert to Kickapuppyism and demand my rights to kick dog breeders puppies
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