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 Topic: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo

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  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #30 - January 07, 2015, 04:57 PM
    RIP to those killed.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #31 - January 07, 2015, 05:04 PM
    Now at Facebook and on Turkish newspaper comments I read a lot of posts about people defending Islam. Some say Mo. would have never done or accept anything like that. Others try to justify that by saying the French killed also people in North Africa.

    But I don't think so. What I have read about Islamic history and about Mo. is that he would never accept any critic on him. He would have probably kill those guys (or let them kill by others) and if they have a beautiful and young wife or daughter he would have married her.

    I'm so angry, that I ever believed in this religion, and that still peaceful and good people believe in it and think that's all a misunderstanding  Cry


     
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #32 - January 07, 2015, 05:22 PM
    ElToro: I feel exactly the same. These people are so quick to remind us that Islam is peaceful, and that the prophet would never have accepted such acts.  Roll Eyes And I wonder how I was able to share their views back in time.

    Oh, and on my Facebook status, regarding the attack on the newspaper, I get the obligatory: "Why are you not condemning the killings of innocent Muslims all over the Middle East instead? That doesn't upset you?". Needless to say I deleted the comment and the person immediately. Will not waste my time discussing with people like that. So sad.
    You are the Universe, Expressing itself as a Human for a little while- Eckhart Tolle
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #33 - January 07, 2015, 06:17 PM
    Here we go again...
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #34 - January 07, 2015, 06:23 PM
    As a lover of satire AND freedom of speech, this is such an unbelievable loss  !!   no words.......
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #35 - January 07, 2015, 06:28 PM
    Sad, awkward fact is that Muhammad actually had women like Asma bint Marwan killed for writing poetry making fun of him. The problem is deep rooted and people are in denial.

    Either way, the immediate future seems bleak now, this is going to have horrible repurcussions.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #36 - January 07, 2015, 06:56 PM
    Quote from: ElToro on January 07, 2015, 05:04 PM
    Now at Facebook and on Turkish newspaper comments I read a lot of posts about people defending Islam. Some say Mo. would have never done or accept anything like that. Others try to justify that by saying the French killed also people in North Africa.

    But I don't think so. What I have read about Islamic history and about Mo. is that he would never accept any critic on him. He would have probably kill those guys (or let them kill by others) and if they have a beautiful and young wife or daughter he would have married her. 


    I don't think we can really comment on what a 7th century desert nomad prophet would do in todays settings. Mohammed did and said a lot of things (that often contradict each other) because that is what he felt was appropriate in the moment. Anyway, it is really sad, I fear things will only get worse.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #37 - January 07, 2015, 07:14 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 07, 2015, 06:28 PM
    Sad, awkward fact is that Muhammad actually had women like Asma bint Marwan killed for writing poetry making fun of him. The problem is deep rooted and people are in denial.

    Either way, the immediate future seems bleak now, this is going to have horrible repurcussions.


    oops, accidently quoted  : )  ... But worth a quote may i add...
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #38 - January 07, 2015, 07:32 PM
    Uhhh, so sick of the "This is not Islam" brigade! Only accepting the peaceful fluffy versions of Islam and Muslims as true Islam and Muslims, and pushing the violent bloody versions of Islam and Muslims to the side, not addressing the issues.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #39 - January 07, 2015, 07:36 PM
    Quote from: laico on January 07, 2015, 06:56 PM
    I don't think we can really comment on what a 7th century desert nomad prophet would do in todays settings....


    Actually, I think we can say exactly what he would or could do and say. At least the Muhammad we know from the hadeeth/seerah litterature. In Makkah, he was weak and could not resort to physical action or violence. Instead, he invoked allah's wrath and curse upon those who ridiculed him and wished the worst "destruction" (hellfire) upon them. When in Madinah he condoned his companions who took action upon themself to murder and execute those who insulted their prophet (ie no need for trial or anything of the sort!), as well as ordered the assasination himself of those insulted him who he thought were a threat against him. It was not only poets and political/social high-ups who were the target of these curses, prayers and actual assasinations, but "regular" citizens who "insulted" him in the privacy of their own homes as well. The story of the blind man (was it Umm Maktoom?) who killed his wife comes to mind.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #40 - January 07, 2015, 08:08 PM
    I can't find the words to describe how I feel about this one. What I mainly feel is just sad. And that sadness seems to obscure whatever other feelings I have inside of me.

    This is the last thing that France in particular needed; it has been fighting with it's demons for a while, and the lunatics are already close to taking over the asylum, even without this atrocity. This is the last thing that the five-million strong ethnic minorities in that country needed. This is a blow to sanity, a blow to humanity, a blow to Muslims, a blow to Islam, a blow to freedom of speech, freedom of opinion and freedom of thought. I can't see any winners anywhere. Why can't these sick individuals, infected with their diseased version of Islam, see that and understand that?  This is all so fucked up and sad.
    Hi
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #41 - January 07, 2015, 08:13 PM
    This is apposite...
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/indonesia-aceh-province-enforces-sharia-non-muslims-1435497

    "Al-Qaeda wants to mentally colonize French Muslims, but faces a wall of disinterest. But if it can get non-Muslim French to be beastly to ethnic Muslims on the grounds that they are Muslims, it can start creating a common political identity around grievance against discrimination."

    I hope the people of France see through this ploy.

    Edit: Having read through this twice I'm now wondering whether this was a far right plot.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #42 - January 07, 2015, 08:38 PM
    These guys are well-trained and battle hardened. Back from fighting with ISIS perhaps?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qblm57WWMbU
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #43 - January 07, 2015, 08:51 PM
    Or they could be French muslims who have been in the army.  I think they still have national service over there.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #44 - January 07, 2015, 09:06 PM
    Just read that two have been in Syria with one also have been in Iraq and then a third a 18 year old guy. I'll see if I can stumble upon an English source.

    Danish TV just reported that three should have been arrested - not sure if it is those three.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #45 - January 07, 2015, 09:22 PM
    Quote from: laico on January 07, 2015, 06:56 PM
    I don't think we can really comment on what a 7th century desert nomad prophet would do in todays settings. Mohammed did and said a lot of things (that often contradict each other) because that is what he felt was appropriate in the moment.


    I don't think it's even worth remarking on that the Muhammad of that day would not gain much traction today, or that he'd have to do things differently today to expect any sort of success. Islam as represented in the hadith and Islam in its most obvious interpretation is simply not compatible with the modern age, and that's pretty much the TL;DR version of our problems with Islam today.

    Like CF said, it's pretty obvious what he would do if he had the power to, and I would only expect that to change by necessity if he cropped up today instead of way back when.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #46 - January 07, 2015, 09:23 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on January 07, 2015, 07:36 PM
    Actually, I think we can say exactly what he would or could do and say. At least the Muhammad we know from the hadeeth/seerah litterature. In Makkah, he was weak and could not resort to physical action or violence. Instead, he invoked allah's wrath and curse upon those who ridiculed him and wished the worst "destruction" (hellfire) upon them. When in Madinah he condoned his companions who took action upon themself to murder and execute those who insulted their prophet (ie no need for trial or anything of the sort!), as well as ordered the assasination himself of those insulted him who he thought were a threat against him. It was not only poets and political/social high-ups who were the target of these curses, prayers and actual assasinations, but "regular" citizens who "insulted" him in the privacy of their own homes as well. The story of the blind man (was it Umm Maktoom?) who killed his wife comes to mind.


    We are talking about a man who took on a mission of conquering a relatively small population of tribal, barbaric, superstitious desert nomads. I think he would have approached things differently faced with the world we live in today, wouldn't you?
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #47 - January 07, 2015, 09:26 PM
    Quote from: lua on January 07, 2015, 09:22 PM
    I don't think it's even worth remarking on that the Muhammad of that day would not gain much traction today, or that he'd have to do things differently today to expect any sort of success.


    Well, I think its worth remarking on it when people start saying 'Mohammed would do this and that if he were here'.

    Who knows what some self-proclaimed prophet from ancient times would do here in the 21st century. We can speculate and guess, that's all.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #48 - January 07, 2015, 09:35 PM
    Every news station should now air the deceased cartoonists drawings of Mo.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #49 - January 07, 2015, 09:39 PM
    Quote from: Descent on January 07, 2015, 09:35 PM
    Every news station should now air pictures of Mo.


    Everyone seems too scared to do anything of the sort these days =/
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #50 - January 07, 2015, 09:39 PM
    Quote from: laico on January 07, 2015, 09:26 PM
    Well, I think its worth remarking on it when people start saying 'Mohammed would do this and that if he were here'.

    Who knows what some self-proclaimed prophet from ancient times would do here in the 21st century. We can speculate and guess, that's all.


    Well, most people I hear saying things like that are ones with a shallow knowledge of the stuff Mohammad actually did, and it's less a comment about the necessity to frame Mohammad's actions in a historical context and not draw from them and more an argument from the kinds of Muslims who carry "if you kill one it's as if you killed the whole of mankind" and other such phrases on their sleeves and nothing else.

    If we plucked Mohammad straight from his age and dropped him here today and tasked him with starting over, it's kind of a ridiculous scenario to even entertain, but we can at least safely assume that he'd have to do a whole lot of things differently if he expected to get any success.

    I do actually think the answer you're looking for is in CF's comment, which is that when Mohammad was in a disadvantaged position, he would do little more than mutter and shake his fist, but when he had power, he used it to silence critics the old fashioned way.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #51 - January 07, 2015, 09:41 PM
    Quote from: laico on January 07, 2015, 09:39 PM
    Everyone seems too scared to do anything of the sort these days =/

    Apparently some news stations did, but blurred. What a bunch of cowards.

  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #52 - January 07, 2015, 09:44 PM
    RIP to those killed.

    I can't help but fear for how this will effect European society.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #53 - January 07, 2015, 09:48 PM
    Quote from: lua on January 07, 2015, 09:39 PM
    Well, most people I hear saying things like that are ones with a shallow knowledge of the stuff Mohammad actually did, and it's less a comment about the necessity to frame Mohammad's actions in a historical context and not draw from them and more an argument from the kinds of Muslims who carry "if you kill one it's as if you killed the whole of mankind" and other such phrases on their sleeves and nothing else.

    If we plucked Mohammad straight from his age and dropped him here today and tasked him with starting over, it's kind of a ridiculous scenario to even entertain, but we can at least safely assume that he'd have to do a whole lot of things differently if he expected to get any success.

    I do actually think the answer you're looking for is in CF's comment, which is that when Mohammad was in a disadvantaged position, he would do little more than mutter and shake his fist, but when he had power, he used it to silence critics the old fashioned way.


    Haha, I'm not defending the bloke or anything like that. It just seemed odd reading people stating that Mohammed would do this and that. Of course You can read his life and get an idea of the type of person he was.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #54 - January 07, 2015, 09:50 PM
    Quote from: laico on January 07, 2015, 09:26 PM
    Who knows what some self-proclaimed prophet from ancient times would do here in the 21st century. We can speculate and guess, that's all.


    Maybe watch TV in his room in a Hospital for Psychiatry?
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #55 - January 07, 2015, 09:52 PM
    Quote from: laico on January 07, 2015, 09:48 PM
    Haha, I'm not defending the bloke or anything like that. It just seemed odd reading people stating that Mohammed would do this and that. Of course You can read his life and get an idea of the type of person he was.


    Surprise twist: there was no Mohammad!

    Edit: Actually thats a good premise for a "safer" (if such a thing is possible) blasphemous cartoon on Muhammad.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #56 - January 07, 2015, 09:57 PM
    Quote from: laico on January 07, 2015, 09:48 PM
    Haha, I'm not defending the bloke or anything like that. It just seemed odd reading people stating that Mohammed would do this and that. Of course You can read his life and get an idea of the type of person he was.


    Yeah, I know, just the question totally loses any relevancy or importance if you take it literally and it winds up being pretty much what ElToro said, and the only way to take it seriously as a question is to assume they mean what the Mohammad character would have done from historical accounts of him, which are pretty clear on that front, and I think it's often the only thing being discussed to begin with.

    Unless you're talking to some much deeper people than I am.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #57 - January 07, 2015, 10:02 PM
    Quote from: lua on January 07, 2015, 09:57 PM
    Yeah, I know, just the question totally loses any relevancy or importance if you take it literally

    Yea, fair enough.

    Quote from: lua on January 07, 2015, 09:57 PM
    Unless you're talking to some much deeper people than I am.


    No, I am not.  Cheesy
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #58 - January 07, 2015, 10:09 PM
    Sky News is reporting the names of the three are:

    Said Kouachi, Cherif Kouachi & Hamyd Mourad.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #59 - January 07, 2015, 10:18 PM
    Quote from: laico on January 07, 2015, 09:23 PM
    I think he would have approached things differently faced with the world we live in today, wouldn't you?


    That is somewhat irrelevant, I think. Muhammad is seen as the ultimate role model for all people and all times, according to Islamic theology. What he did, and what we can derive from that, is what people should go after even in this day and age. The question whether he would've come with a somewhat different message in content is almost a paradoxal question seen from an Islamic perspective. So if we're going after what the Islamic texts actually are saying, what just happened in France is just a modern version of Mo's companions going on a killing spree out in the desert, which actually happened (if we believe the hadeeth litterature). That time it was poets and other influential people. This time it was cartoonists and other journalists and such.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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