Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Qur'anic studies today
April 23, 2024, 06:50 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 20, 2024, 12:02 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
April 19, 2024, 04:40 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
April 19, 2024, 12:50 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 19, 2024, 04:17 AM

What's happened to the fo...
by zeca
April 18, 2024, 06:39 PM

New Britain
April 18, 2024, 05:41 PM

Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 09:56 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 04:01 PM

Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:06 PM

Mock Them and Move on., ...
January 30, 2024, 10:44 AM

Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
January 29, 2024, 01:53 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo

 (Read 78136 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 3 4 56 7 ... 20 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #120 - January 08, 2015, 02:16 PM

    Friend of mine posted this on Facebook in defense of the right to blaspheme.



    He is Jewish.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #121 - January 08, 2015, 02:18 PM

    Someone tweeted this

    Dyab Abou Jahjah ‏@Aboujahjah  2h2 hours ago
    I am not Charlie, I am Ahmed the dead cop. Charlie ridiculed my faith and culture and I died defending his right to do so. #JesuisAhmed


    I thought it was worth translating and retweeting:

    Abu Ali
    ‏@abdulazizbulbul
    @Aboujahjah انا لست شارلي ، انا أحمد الشرطي الميت . شارلي احتقر ديني وثقافتي وانا مت دفاعا عن حقه في القيام بذلك #JesuisAhmed

    If you want to share, this is my twitter account:

    https://twitter.com/abdulazizbulbul
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #122 - January 08, 2015, 02:36 PM






    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #123 - January 08, 2015, 04:41 PM

    Someone tweeted this

    Dyab Abou Jahjah ‏@Aboujahjah  2h2 hours ago
    I am not Charlie, I am Ahmed the dead cop. Charlie ridiculed my faith and culture and I died defending his right to do so. #JesuisAhmed



    Medhi Hasan posted a related article.

    His followers' comments on Facebook don't disappoint  Undecided

    https://www.facebook.com/MrMehdiHasan/posts/1527256680860914

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #124 - January 08, 2015, 05:06 PM

    Medhi Hasan posted a related article.

    His followers' comments on Facebook don't disappoint  Undecided

    https://www.facebook.com/MrMehdiHasan/posts/1527256680860914


    For me the important point I think needs underlining is that there are a hell of a lot of secular, liberal and non-religious people who nevertheless still identify as Muslims, yet still defend free-speech and secular values as this policeman clearly did by the mere fact of being a policeman. (And by all accounts he did identify as a Muslim, and his family say they are going to bury him in the Muslim cemetery of Bobigny).

    The Islamists insist that secular, liberal and non--practising Muslims are not "real" Muslims.

    I say fuck them!! I am not going to accept these murderous psychopaths defining what a Muslim can or cannot believe.

    Strangely these extremists psychopaths are at one with far-right bigots on this. They also refuse to accept that a "real" Muslim can be a liberal secularist.

    So fuck them both!!
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #125 - January 08, 2015, 05:40 PM

    This is beyond horrifying. This will have horrifying consequences for all of us.


    Yup.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #126 - January 08, 2015, 05:52 PM

    For me the important point I think needs underlining is that there are a hell of a lot of secular, liberal and non-religious people who nevertheless still identify as Muslims, yet still defend free-speech and secular values as this policeman clearly did by the mere fact of being a policeman.


    There are many, many, many of those, mashallah Smiley

    Here Tehmina Kazi of British Muslims for Secular Democracy. Hopefully it can cheer you up a little, Abu Smiley
    far away hug

    Quote
    Charlie Hebdo: Dismantling nine mistaken assumptions about the Paris atrocities

    Tehmina Kazi of British Muslims for Secular Democracy looks at nine mistaken assumptions doing the rounds about the murders that took place at the offices of Charlie Hebdo yesterday

    False Assumption One
    ‘Charlie Hebdo magazine was needlessly provocative’

    Manufacturers of outrage and assorted agitators do not need any kind of ‘provocation’ for their actions. When Jyllands-Posten published the Danish cartoons in September 2005, protests in Muslim-majority countries did not start until four months later.

    Mona Eltahawy’s interview with Jytte Klausen, the Danish-born author of the Yale Press’s forthcoming book, Cartoons That Shook the World, recognised that lag. According to Yale Press’s Web site, she argues that Muslim reaction to the cartoons was not spontaneous but, rather, that it was orchestrated “first by those with vested interests in elections in Denmark and Egypt”, and later by “extremists seeking to destabilize governments in Pakistan, Lebanon, Libya, and Nigeria”.

    Further, Quilliam Foundation director and Liberal Democrat prospective parliamentary candidate Maajid Nawaz re-tweeted a ‘Jesus and Mo’ cartoon on 12 January 2014. Most of the people who called for his de-selection – and helped to whip up the resultant furore – conveniently ignored his original mention of the cartoons on the BBC’s Big Questions programme earlier. The broadcast itself attracted barely a whisper on social media.

    False Assumption Two
    ‘The Left should defend all expressions of Islam at all costs’


    Professor Karima Bennoune said it best in her article, ‘Why Bill Maher and Ben Affleck are both wrong‘: “We do not need either stereotypical generalizations or minimising responses to fundamentalism, however well-intentioned.
    What we need is a principled, anti-racist critique of Muslim fundamentalism that pulls no punches, but that also distinguishes between Islam (the diverse religious tradition) and Islamism (an extreme right-wing political ideology). We need support, understanding and to have our existence recognised.”


    False Assumption Three
    ‘The French hate Muslims, don’t they?’

    From the Pew Global Attitudes survey 2014, which interviewed 7,022 citizens in seven European countries, 72 per cent of French citizens polled said they had a favourable opinion of Muslims in their country. This was higher than Italy, Greece, Poland, Spain, Germany, and even the UK.

    False Assumption Four
    ‘Not in Our Name campaigns are helpful’

    As well-intentioned as these undoubtedly are, the ‘Not in my name’ campaigns spearheaded by Muslims send out a problematic subliminal message to non-Muslims: that Muslims are unwilling to sort out the problems in their own back yard.

    No-one is expecting us to eradicate all gender segregation in public events overnight, or to change the minds of all homophobic preachers in a few months, or to re-introduce music lessons in all Muslim-majority schools that have cancelled them. No-one is saying that we have to devote several years of our lives and careers doing this (as I have).

    However, we are expected to make some effort to condemn obscurantism from all quarters, or as much as we are able to within our own circles of influence. Given that the Qu’ran takes such a strong line on humans challenging injustice wherever we find it, this shouldn’t be too difficult.

    False Assumption Five
    ‘Religious minorities have less to gain from democratic freedoms than the majority’

    The same legislation that promotes freedom of expression also protects freedom of religion – and from religion. Article 9 of the European Convention of Human Rights protects freedom of thought, conscience and religion (unless state interference with these is shown to be a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim).

    In a non-legal context, the culture of rights and freedoms we have in the UK leads to strong civil society projects that monitor anti-Muslim attacks, such as Tell MAMA.

    False Assumption Six
    ‘Condemnation is sufficient’

    Sombre press releases and widely-shared Facebook updates are better than nothing, but many of their authors have inadvertently contributed to the problem in the past.

    How?

    By endorsing blasphemy laws, treating the words of Zakir Naik and Junaid Jamshed as gospel, or turning a blind eye when feminist or progressive Muslim activists (like Sara Khan of Inspire) are viciously attacked for their work on Twitter.

    False Assumption Seven
    ‘It is always someone else’s fault’

    Then there are those who won’t even condemn acts of violence and terrorism, but automatically paint the attacks as false-flag operations, with a cast of extras to rival ‘Titanic’. In my experience, attempting to reason with these people is a waste of time and energy. Better to leave them to their echo chambers.

    False Assumption Eight
    ‘Beliefs deserve more protection than people’

    Under the Equality Act 2010, beliefs are only protected insofar as they apply to the rights of individuals. For instance, it is unlawful for someone to discriminate against you because of your religion or belief (or because you have no religion or belief):
    in any aspect of employment
    when providing goods, facilities and services
    when providing education
    in using or disposing of premises, or
    when exercising public functions.

    False Assumption Nine
    ‘The way forward is to treat each event as a passing accident of horror’

    Laissez-faire approaches like these have led us to the predicament we are in. These acts are neither passing nor accidental; they are part of one long atrocity continuum, compounded by mainstream society’s cowardice and unwillingness to champion unpopular causes.

    Instead, campaigning groups that happily take on the far-right should challenge the Muslim right-wing with equal ferocity, rather than giving their behaviour a free pass.
     
    Tehmina Kazi has been director of British Muslims for Secular Democracy since May 2009, and has worked on a number of human rights and citizenship projects



    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #127 - January 08, 2015, 08:00 PM

    Uhhhh, fed up of the fb head-in-sanders!
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #128 - January 08, 2015, 08:12 PM


    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #129 - January 08, 2015, 08:20 PM



    I would say both have a right to say they are Muslims they just don't follow the same Islam.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #130 - January 08, 2015, 08:23 PM


    Are the two mutually exclusive?
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #131 - January 08, 2015, 08:27 PM

    Depends on interpretation Tongue

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #132 - January 08, 2015, 08:27 PM

    This is a murderer who is Muslim, this is his victim who is also Muslim. Less catchy, but more accurate.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #133 - January 08, 2015, 08:32 PM

    Please scroll up and and read what Abu Ali wrote.

    I have had a few people who identifies as - or get identified as - Muslims PM'ing me on Facebook since yesterday fearing for their future, their family, living in Europe - despite them being born, raised and educated here.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #134 - January 08, 2015, 08:37 PM

    Is that addressed to me? Did I say something contrary to Abu Ali's point or what you just said?  wacko
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #135 - January 08, 2015, 08:43 PM

    No no lua Smiley It was merely directed to Lily and Descent and in general. I just wanted to point out that a lot of people who feel "Muslim" and who can't identify with the attackers nor what they have done are in agony and outright fear because of what they, their family and loved ones identify or possibly can be identified as.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #136 - January 08, 2015, 08:46 PM

    I understand that but what they have to realise is that either Muslim isn't very descriptive at all.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #137 - January 08, 2015, 08:57 PM

    No no lua Smiley It was merely directed to Lily and Descent and in general. I just wanted to point out that a lot of people who feel "Muslim" and who can't identify with the attackers nor what they have done are in agony and outright fear because of what they, their family and loved ones identify or possibly can be identified as.


    Ahh, I see. Yeah, that's true, of course. Still, I can't help but think it important to mention that there's really no reason to say the terrorists weren't also Muslims. Just not representative of all Muslims, and it's a distinction we should make on both sides, in my opinion.

    Simply denouncing the shooter as not Muslim or not "real Muslim" will probably not be so helpful in the long run, especially since it only takes a moment of research to find justifications for the attacks in Islam, and so denying that's a valid interpretation is kind of flimsy and certainly won't convince the kind of bigots that we're worried about threatening the welfare of truly moderate Muslims.

    I think the fairer thing to say, and the thing that is most important and undeniable, is that yes, they're both Muslims, but no, they're not both terrorists. One was a terrorist, one was a victim who died as a police officer, serving the people of France. That's the difference we ought to stress.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #138 - January 08, 2015, 09:11 PM

    Quote
    We think the Paris terrorists were offended by Charlie Hebdo's satire. What if we're wrong?

    We've bought the idea that Islamic terrorists are genuinely outraged by satirical cartoons. But maybe we're playing into their hands

    By Michael Deacon, Parliamentary Sketchwriter - 11:35AM GMT 08 Jan 2015

    Here's a theory. Terrorists aren't offended by cartoons. Not even cartoons that satirise the Prophet Muhammad. They don't care about satire. For all I know they may not even care about the Prophet Muhammad.

    Instead, they merely pretend to be offended by cartoons, in order to give themselves a pretext to commit murder. Murder so horrifying, on a pretext so unWestern, that non-Muslims – blinded by grief and rage – turn on Muslims. Blame them. Persecute them. Burn their book, attack their mosques, threaten them in the street, demand their expulsion from Western societies. Actions that, in turn, scare Western Muslims, isolate them, alienate them. And thus drive some of them to support – and even become – terrorists.

    Result: terrorists swell their ranks for a civil war they long to provoke non-Muslims into starting.
    In our angry innocence, however, we persist in thinking this is somehow about cartoons. In thinking that the terrorists "win" if we don't reproduce those cartoons, and "lose" if we do. As if, at this very moment, terrorist leaders across the West are privately wailing in anguished disbelief because satirical cartoons have been reproduced this morning in several European newspapers.("Disaster! Our plan has backfired in a way we couldn't possibly have foreseen! Ink really does beat Kalashnikovs! Satire defeats us once again!")

    On the whole, I'm not sure that's very likely. I don't think the terrorists "win" if we fail to reproduce cartoons. I think the terrorists "win" if we leap up, gulp down their bait – and hate Muslims.

    This is not about satire. This is beyond satire.

  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #139 - January 08, 2015, 09:12 PM

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11332535/We-think-the-Paris-terrorists-were-offended-by-Charlie-Hebdos-satire.-What-if-were-wrong.html
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #140 - January 08, 2015, 09:32 PM

    No One Murdered Because Of This Image

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/?ref=auto



    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #141 - January 08, 2015, 10:21 PM


    As if, at this very moment, terrorist leaders across the West are privately wailing in anguished disbelief because satirical cartoons have been reproduced this morning in several European newspapers.("Disaster! Our plan has backfired in a way we couldn't possibly have foreseen! Ink really does beat Kalashnikovs! Satire defeats us once again!")

    On the whole, I'm not sure that's very likely. I don't think the terrorists "win" if we fail to reproduce cartoons. I think the terrorists "win" if we leap up, gulp down their bait – and hate Muslims.

    This is not about satire. This is beyond satire.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11332535/We-think-the-Paris-terrorists-were-offended-by-Charlie-Hebdos-satire.-What-if-were-wrong.html


    Yes. I agree with that.

    Previous reports show that many of the top-ranking ISIS leaders are ex-Ba'thists who have decided that hardcore Islamism is the best way to swell their ranks has previously been reported on. They view Islam as a tool.

    Sounds cynical - but these guys are cynical bastards.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #142 - January 08, 2015, 11:19 PM

    I think the people committing the act believed in what they did. It's possible  they were duped by the people that sent or encouraged them, certainly.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #143 - January 08, 2015, 11:54 PM

    I think the people committing the act believed in what they did. It's possible  they were duped by the people that sent or encouraged them, certainly.


    Exactly, I think that those influencing them may be more power-hungry than they are truly believing in what they are doing per say.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #144 - January 08, 2015, 11:57 PM

    Oh yes, I agree. I was talking about some of the leaders of IS, not the rank and file - of which these two brothers are typical - they believe in the Jihadist Salafi ideology.

    It's interesting though how many of these young jihadis went from quite un-Islamic lifestyles, drugs, girlfriends, angry rap music etc... to hardline pious salafi jihadist.

  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #145 - January 09, 2015, 12:04 AM

    Its the guilt-pleasure cycle. Party it up woop woop woop - get all religious and stuff so no party, makes Jamal a very sad boy - party it up by playing wargames and having sex with multiple women including rape and doing drugs to do the wargames - possibly feel bad later on and moderate - go to heaven for wine, drugs, milk, honey and multiple virgin hooris (or grapes) and party it up woop woop woop
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #146 - January 09, 2015, 12:19 AM

    True!!

    Idiots will always be idiots, but what makes these idiots so much more dangerous is they believe they are on a divine mission.

    There is nothing worse than a fool driven by a fanatical religious ideology.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #147 - January 09, 2015, 12:20 AM

    Vacation tip:


    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #148 - January 09, 2015, 01:14 AM


    French cartoonist Sine on trial on charges of anti-Semitism over Sarkozy jibe (Charlie Hebdo cartoonist). Looks like they were a bit hypocritical as well- anti-islamic cartoons OK, anti-zionist cartoons JAIL TIME freedom of speech  Cheesy


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/4351672/French-cartoonist-Sine-on-trial-on-charges-of-anti-Semitism-over-Sarkozy-jibe.html
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #149 - January 09, 2015, 01:17 AM

    True!!

    Idiots will always be idiots, but what makes these idiots so much more dangerous is they believe they are on a divine mission.

    There is nothing worse than a fool driven by a fanatical religious ideology.


    It seems like the rank and file are usually always the one being exploited. These people remind me of the Red Guard in China back in those days. The fact that young students can turn so vicious and bloodthirsty, you'd had to sort of admire those top ideologues even though at the same time you feel utterly repulsed.
  • Previous page 1 ... 3 4 56 7 ... 20 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »