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 Topic: Qur'an recital as an achievement

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  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     OP - December 26, 2014, 01:42 PM
    I grew up in a culture where reciting the Qur'an was and still is seen as a worthy thing for kids to do. Reciting, mind you, as in getting the sounds exactly right so the holy words would drift up to heaven for Allah to hear and feel fuzzy all over, but without any emphasis on the actual meaning of what was being recited. Kids who memorized the Qur'an were seen as something special. The holy book also wasn't to be touched by menstruating women and hands without absolutions. Certain verses were also recited for sick people, the dying, newborns etc.

    It pisses me off to no end about how fucked up this all is... After plowing through the mind bending materials in the Religion and Gods subforum, reciting the Qur'an is like mouthing out the words to some bad fairy tale, but without even understanding the tale itself. It's ironic to the core that the supposedly perfect language of the Qur'an is actually a barely comprehensible mishmash of ancient tongues distorted by time and incompetent translators who couldn't see the original context of the base texts, combined with some convenient propaganda additions.

    Yet plenty of non-Arab cultures with Islamic roots treat every word in the Qur'an as holy and as powerful as a magic spell. Even Muslim "science" advocates turn to these mantras to get Allah to negate basic physics on a conditional basis. It's horrible to subject kids to learning this trash when they could be spending time on... Xbox or something Wink
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #1 - December 26, 2014, 01:53 PM
    Memorizing things in a language you don't understand isn't so bad. It exercises the memorizing part of your brain. Also you get used to Arabic script, which helps you read languages like Arabic, Pharsi, Urdu, if you ever get around to learning them...
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #2 - December 26, 2014, 02:13 PM
    One thing I definitely do not regret is memorizing Quran. It taught me a lot about stimulating my memory, learning Arabic, tons of phonology which has helped me immensely with phonology and linguistics in general not just Arabic. Tajweed was not a waste of time. Actually, the other week I had a lapse reciting half of Baqarah before I got bored Grin
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #3 - December 26, 2014, 02:16 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on December 26, 2014, 02:13 PM
    One thing I definitely do not regret is memorizing Quran. It taught me a lot about stimulating my memory, learning Arabic, tons of phonology which has helped me immensely with phonology and linguistics in general not just Arabic. Tajweed was not a waste of time. Actually, the other week I had a lapse reciting half of Baqarah before I got bored Grin


    Lol, for me I feel that out of the whole process the emphasis of my teacher on tajweed was the biggest waste of time. I could have memorized much more otherwise!
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #4 - December 26, 2014, 02:19 PM
    Tajweed is the whole point, I loved it! Quran sounds like shit without the tarteel and tajweed. I guess I was a pretty strict teacher, I expected perfection not only from myself when in class, but also from my students.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #5 - December 26, 2014, 03:02 PM
    Memorising the Qur'an is a waste of time period when it is expected that ALL children must learn it. Want to improve your memory than learn something useful that you can later apply in life rather than waste countless hours and energy over BS you do not, and if later you attempt to, will not understand. Want to learn about linguistics and phonology than do it when you're ready and can understand the material at an advanced level NOT as a kid.

    Fuck Robotica!
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #6 - December 26, 2014, 03:30 PM
    Oh you are completely right Jedi. However, since I did spend so many years doing it out of my own free will, I might as well chose to look at it from the bright side and say that I actually learnt something from it that I do apply in real life. Which I do. Am I gonna teach the kiddo Quran just because of it? Well take a guess Grin
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #7 - December 26, 2014, 06:04 PM
    Quote from: asbie on December 26, 2014, 01:53 PM
    Memorizing things in a language you don't understand isn't so bad. It exercises the memorizing part of your brain. Also you get used to Arabic script, which helps you read languages like Arabic, Pharsi, Urdu, if you ever get around to learning them...

    This. Although I agree generally with the sentiment expressed in the first post, memorizing surahs taught me about the human memory's capacity and the power of learning by rote. Plus I'd like to learn to read some of the languages that are derived from the Arabic alphabet at some point.
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #8 - December 26, 2014, 06:44 PM
    My niece can memorize whole songs but I would never recommend anyone listen to a SINGLE One Direction song...EVER.

    Some of the arguments people are making are pitiful to say the least...
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #9 - December 26, 2014, 06:52 PM
    In the case of the Quran, not knowing what you're reading is DEFINITELY a helpful part of the process in this case.  Grin

    If the child knew the content it would be traumatizing.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #10 - December 26, 2014, 09:04 PM
    From a teachers perspective, children do learn to memorise subliminally and consciously both in and out of school  (video games, song lyrics, reading books and various other activities). However, the amount of energy and time that is exerted trying to learn a complex and outdated language as Koranic Arabic is beyond necessity and some childrens means I might add. It's truly a waste of time and a dreadful waste of a child's life who should do more meaningful social activities to complement the hard work they do in schools where they learn USEFUL knowledge that they actually understand.

     finmadCONSERVATIVES make CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS and embedded component of the education curriculum! finmad
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #11 - December 26, 2014, 10:57 PM
    I do not see anything wrong with the development aspect the practice has on people. I just see the exclusive promoting of just the one text to be a bit obsessive.  whistling2
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #12 - December 26, 2014, 11:45 PM
    There is more harm in it than good.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #13 - December 27, 2014, 12:57 AM
    Okay then Mr. Education Related Smarty Pants. How about if they are memorizing speeches in Klingon or Elvish?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #14 - December 27, 2014, 09:13 AM
    Cornflower, you mentioned you were/are a teacher? What did you teach?
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #15 - December 27, 2014, 11:05 AM
    I taught tajweed and quranic recitation/memorization. I had students who were less advanced than me, but my teacher allowed me to be a teacher myself.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #16 - December 27, 2014, 11:49 AM
    Imagine the horror if they discovered you are a murtad!
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #17 - December 27, 2014, 11:53 AM
    Maybe it would be better to see if you came from an Arabic speaking background or not. It's useful to learn the Arabic characters because they're used in many non-Arabic languages but memorizing the Qur'an is just that, memorizing, without any Arabic language understanding. If you came from a non-Arabic speaking background like me, then all I was doing as a kid was mouthing some weird sounds to satisfy my teacher and hopefully get Allah all warm and fuzzy.

    It's like being a Chinese speaker who doesn't understand a word of English, but is forced to memorize and sing One Direction songs Wink
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #18 - December 27, 2014, 12:31 PM
    Quote from: questioner on December 27, 2014, 11:49 AM
    Imagine the horror if they discovered you are a murtad!


    Oh believe me, most of them already know Grin After my official apostasy, I got a phone call from a Saudi shaykh who asked me to be his teaching assistant when he was coming to our city for a month long intensive course. Uhm, I don't think I have the time for that right now but good luck with the course.  Afro
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #19 - December 27, 2014, 12:56 PM
     Cheesy Cheesy I don't think the shaykh would be too kind
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #20 - December 27, 2014, 03:40 PM
    Quote from: asbie on December 27, 2014, 12:57 AM
    Okay then Mr. Education Related Smarty Pants. How about if they are memorizing speeches in Klingon or Elvish?

    Ego mibo orch!
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #21 - December 27, 2014, 08:21 PM
    Quote from: asbie on December 27, 2014, 12:57 AM
    Okay then Mr. Education Related Smarty Pants. How about if they are memorizing speeches in Klingon or Elvish?


    Of their own accord without familial/social pressure? Muslims don't 'remember' a 'speech' but a WHOLE BOOK. There's a difference.

    Oh and the message of the memorization - antisemitism, misogyny, paranoia and theological supremacy - then only a fool would commend such a thing!
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #22 - December 27, 2014, 08:26 PM
    Did anyone here actually claim that hifdh was something that one should promote? Huh? I think we can all agree we are all better without it. However, personally I tend to seek out the positive in all my experience. Meaning, I can take out benefits from my own time spending memorizing the quran even though I think you could do it better in other ways and find the quran be full of shit.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #23 - December 27, 2014, 11:55 PM
    As far as I can see I only called out the fact that people say that memorization of the Koran was good as it 1) promotes memory skills and 2) it helps develop an appreciation for linguistics and phonology.

    I argued that 1) there are better methods to improving your memory and 2) that's all good and fine if you want to do it an advanced stage of your education (which is what it would be in the West) and most importantly 3) It is a hideous text that is best kept away from young, impressionable minds.

    In reality, for most children in the West (perhaps the world) it is a useless and wasteful exercise in which the time and energy exerted in memorising and reciting an ancient racist and debauched script can be better spent elsewhere.

    I never called out an individuals personal experiences though I understand how what I stated may cause some discomfort to some who 1) use Arabic as their primary language or 2) raised in a culture/educational environment in which Arabic is promoted as an intellectual exercise. If I have then I'm sorry. I'm sure Arabic is a lovely language.

    But I prefer to teach my kids Cornish because Unicorns don't send people to Hell for not believing.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #24 - December 28, 2014, 01:04 PM
    The singled minded obsession does imply negatives which just are not spoken, one being indoctrination.
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #25 - December 29, 2014, 04:24 AM
    As for reciting the Qur'an, I hated it because it was just sing-song in a language totally foreign to me. We had to get the tones right, the timing right, all without knowing what we were saying.

    The parts I did understand, when my religious teacher explained bits of doctrine, all involved hellfire, the end of the world and those nasty deceitful kuffar - stuff that made my 8-year-old brain privately reel in disgust. Jedi is right, there are plenty of other more constructive ways of teaching memorization and languages to children without resorting to Qur'an recital. Or the Bible, for that matter.
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #26 - January 02, 2015, 11:36 PM
    My father beat me for making mistakes while reciting the quran. I fucking hate that book. While I certainly won't be teaching any kids I ever have to recite the quran, I'm always scared that if I ever have to teach them something (reading, writing, etc) I will end up... repeating my upbringing. (God-forbid!) The thought sickens me.
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #27 - January 03, 2015, 12:12 AM
    Testing
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #28 - January 03, 2015, 12:16 AM
    Just buy your kids more than one book to read. Problem solved.

     Start out looking for books which are part of a series. Buy the first book from a few different series as a gift for whatever holiday or birthday. When I was young I received a 3 years, I think, subscription to National Geographic for Kids as a gift. For birthdays and Xmas I would have between 1-3 books from a fantasy or sci-fi series. I think my mother paid attention to what I read  often and took note. I would receive a new book in a series or genre I read like. At some point the Kids edition was changed to the normal one for a few years. By the time I was 12 I was asking for specific books. I would also trade in series I had read for a new series at the local bookstores. I had my equivalent video-game systems of my era with a collection of games. However I would say get some books first. Develop the interest first and let it go nuts.

  • Qur'an recital as an achievement
     Reply #29 - January 03, 2015, 12:16 AM
    Quote from: Jedi on January 03, 2015, 12:12 AM
    Testing


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