'Scientific Miracles and Qur'an

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- justperusing
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Reply #30 - January 09, 2015, 09:35 PM

So if an ancient greek philosopher like Democritus comes up with the idea that everything is made of atoms and then scientists later confirm that it is true, does that make him divinely inspired? Does that mean everything he says should become dogma?

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Reply #31 - January 09, 2015, 09:43 PM

Atoms only make up a small amount of the universe, but good point nonetheless.
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Reply #32 - January 09, 2015, 09:48 PM

Quote from: http://muslimanswers.net/2013/09/20/an-analysis-of-hamza-tzortzis-paper-on-the-quran-and-so-called-scientific-miracles/

1.The Qur’ān uses the words saqfan maḥfūẓan, which means a protected roof.

2.Therefore, the Qur’ān is describing the function of the Earth’s atmosphere.

Again, the above syllogism is invalid. It doesn’t logically follow that the words saqfan maḥfūẓan, which refers to a protected roof, describes the function of the Earth’s atmosphere. This is because saqfan maḥfūẓan can also refer to a physical roof. Some interpretations of the Qur’ān include that the heaven is erected with invisible pillars, and that a fragment of the heaven or sky can fall on Earth; (see Qur’ān 13:2 and 34:9). These interpretations indicate a solid roof like structure, as confirmed by the classical exegete Ibn Kathīr who cites a scholar mentioning that “the heaven is like a dome over the earth”.[15] Therefore the words saqfan maḥfūẓan can also refer to a physical roof or dome like structure. For that reason, the above argument will only be valid if all interpretations and descriptions of saqfan maḥfūẓan describes the function of Earth’s atmosphere. Atmosphere is a physical roof.

In light of the above, the argument that the Qur’ān is a miracle because the descriptions of certain words it uses seem to relate to descriptions of words used in scientific facts, is logically fallacious. The scientific miracles claim would only be valid if it could be demonstrated that the interpretations of the words that seem to correlate with science are the intended meanings. The principles of Qur’ānic exegesis dictates that this is impossible to ascertain (this will be discussed later in the essay).

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Reply #33 - January 09, 2015, 09:52 PM

Quote from: http://muslimanswers.net

1. All As are Cs

2. All Bs are Cs

3. Therefore all As are Bs

The above fallacy is in the conclusion. Since A and B share the common category C, it doesn’t follow that A is the same as B.

…

Most of the science in the Qur’ān arguments commit this type of fallacy. Below is a summary:

1. A description of a scientific fact A uses C

2. A description in the Qur’ān B uses C

3. Therefore, the description in the Qur’ān B is the description of A

The following are some specific examples:

1. The scientific fact in embryology is the implantation of the blastocyst in the uterine wall. Implantation can be attributed as a safe place.

2. The Qur’ān uses the words qarārin[11] makīn[12], which can mean a safe place.

3. Therefore, the Qur’ān is describing the scientific fact of the implantation of the blastocyst.

Fallacy of the undistributed middle.

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Reply #34 - January 09, 2015, 09:53 PM

Quote from: aykk on January 09, 2015, 09:28 PM
I am open to debate, let me first define 'scientific miracle'- right now, science has proofed their correctness

No it hasn't, that already tells me that you don't understand the first thing about Science. Scientific "proof" is a misnomer, proof is a mathematical (and also deductive logic) concept. Science does not subscribe to absolute certainty.
I'm done with you & your ilk.

Take a break from the apologist stratosphere, read a few logic textbooks & then come back.

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Reply #35 - January 09, 2015, 10:14 PM

I don't like to discuss scientific miracles in the Quran anymore. The reason being is that it becomes a game of interpretations that apologists like to play with. They don't care about having anything beyond a shallow understanding scientific principles.

I know it's a little silly and funny to say this (because it's so obvious), but from my brief observations of "dawahgandists", I find that they no integrity whatsoever. Their goal seems to convert as many people to Islam, regardless of the process, with no care for anything factual. It just seems a little abhorrent that you need to target misinformed people for conversion. It also shows that you have no faith in the merits of your own religion.
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Reply #36 - January 09, 2015, 10:16 PM

Dawah boys have no argument when you steer the conversation away from their planned script of events.
I've already violated my "New Year's resolution" lol, I decided to not argue with apologists for a year.

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Reply #37 - January 09, 2015, 10:24 PM

On like every youtube vid about Islam some knucklehead posts that verse about "the earth and heavens being one and then they were separated" and then sits back and expects everyone to just be left in awe by the amazing miraculousness of the Quran. Anyone who has some sort of understanding of the Big Bang just looks at that and sees proof that the Quran has no idea what it is talking about.

The scientific miracles nonsense really makes Muslims seem dumb.

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
-Thomas Paine
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Reply #38 - January 09, 2015, 10:29 PM

There is no time prior to the big bang
Allah operates outside of time
∴ Allah is the big banger

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Reply #39 - January 09, 2015, 10:39 PM

He certainly went to work on Mary

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
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Reply #40 - January 09, 2015, 10:41 PM

Mary?

No Brother, you must mean Maryām, surely?

TabarakAllah.

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