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Theme Changer

 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

 (Read 1271274 times)
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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10380 - September 03, 2021, 06:09 PM
    Quote
    Van Putten is sarcastically refuting Kerr, ignoring willingly or unwillingly that the hima inscription is attributed to northern arabs.


    Yes.

    Quote
    About the "mentality" of the christian arabs before islam, what may be a good source to understand it?


    Scarce allusions of the Roman literature about the Roman and Persians Arabs during the Persian-Roman war.

    Quote
    About the dating of the surah, what may suggest an earlier dating than the tradition? Even if we set aside the narrative, what may suggest that the surah were initially composed second half of 6th century?


    The centrality of the apocalyptical dimension. Middle of the 6th c. is the time of the catastrophes: plague and climate.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10381 - September 04, 2021, 08:27 AM
    Quote from: Spaghettibologn on September 02, 2021, 07:01 PM
    ..................
    https://mobile.twitter.com/phdnix/status/1415001180254740489?s=21



    Well that Mustafa Akyol  gets in to that twit link and says

    Quote
    Mustafa Akyol @AkyolinEnglish
    ·
    1  Strict Islamic traditionalists accuse Islamic liberals like myself for replacing divine truths with human norms.

    But our argument is that the Islamic tradition is already filled with human norms: Umayyad manipulations, Abbasid dictates, patriarchal cultures, pre-modern contexts.


    boy he changed and still changing .,  I guess it is worth scanning through his new book



    Reopening Muslim Minds: A Return to Reason, Freedom, and Tolerance
    Hardcover – April 6, 2021 Reopening Muslim Minds: A Return to Reason, Freedom, and Tolerance Hardcover – April 6, 2021

    well  Akyol need to open more,  more  of his own mind
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10382 - September 04, 2021, 06:35 PM
    Quranic Manuscripts with Dr. Hythem Sidky on Bottled Petrichor
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EEP3XpLwMc&t=96s
    Quote
    Join me on this new series as I sit with experts to discuss resources, tools, and other important questions across various sub-fields in Islamic Studies.

    I'm joined today by Dr. Hythem Sidky, Executive Director of the International Quranic Studies Association, who will be talking to us about Quranic manuscripts. What are some important manuscript collections? How do we find and use manuscripts? What are some important scripts we see in early Quranic manuscripts?  What are some important markers we see in Quranic manuscripts? How do we date manuscripts and what are some major methodological issues with various dating methods? And more!

    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10383 - September 04, 2021, 09:04 PM
    Intro to Quranic Studies with Dr. Gabriel Said Reynolds on Bottled Petrichor
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqj5gmdIFhM
    Quote
    Today, I'm here with Dr. Gabriel Said Reynolds, Professor of Islamic Studies and Theology at Notre Dame. We talk about important conversations in the field, points of agreement/disagreement among scholars, the anatomy of a typical copy of the Qur'an, key works to be familiar with, online resources, Qur'an translations, and more! 

    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10384 - September 05, 2021, 09:16 AM
    Quote from: zeca on September 04, 2021, 09:04 PM
    Intro to Quranic Studies with Dr. Gabriel Said Reynolds on Bottled Petrichor
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqj5gmdIFhM

    Gabriel is GOOOD ......  he knows how to walk on a VERY TIGHT ROPE Cheesy

    and I liked his answers  for  which Translation of Quran is good ( around 46 mts  of that tube) and what he prefers ., I could not figure out what his preferred translation is   . he says some author name ARTHUR ..GROSH??

    hello zeca ..  could you figure that out., it is around 46 mts.

    thanks
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10385 - September 05, 2021, 09:39 AM
    Yeez - I've just tried listening and I can't make out the name either.
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10386 - September 05, 2021, 09:40 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on September 05, 2021, 09:16 AM
    Gabriel is GOOOD ......  he knows how to walk on a VERY TIGHT ROPE Cheesy


    This is true.
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10387 - September 06, 2021, 04:46 PM
    I believe the translation that he is referring to is, The Qur'an: A New Annotated Translation, by A. J. Droge.  I find it very objective, impartial, accessible and useful as a study Qur'an and would use it if I were to teach, say a high school or college course on Islam. 
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10388 - September 06, 2021, 08:05 PM
    Thanks Mubashshir888
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10389 - September 12, 2021, 02:21 PM
    Quote from: Mubashshir888 on September 06, 2021, 04:46 PM
    I believe the translation that he is referring to is, The Qur'an: A New Annotated Translation, by A. J. Droge.

     I find it very objective, impartial, accessible and useful as a study Qur'an and would use it if I were to teach, say a high school or college course on Islam. 

    Oh my goodness gracious ..   I hope you are NOT that famous Mubasher Lucman .. THE PAKISTAN FLYING ANCHOR WITH HIS PERSONAL PLANE ... 

    hello Mubashshir888., welcome to den and that is your first post?  For some reason i fell that you are reading the forum for a long time without joining in it., and  thanks for for the post that clears my problem of understanding  Reynold's words about his selective Quran.,

    I am curious when there are so many translated Qurans why you and Reynold   prefer that Arthur Droge's translation   

    you may find it   objective, impartial, accessible and useful as a study Qur'an  but i find it THAT HE IS DISMISSING THE  CLAIMS OF TRADITIONAL ISLAMC SCOHOLRAS ., and in fact his questions on Quran  are very critical of Quran being word of Allah/God...

    anyways   thank you again welcome to the forum
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10390 - September 12, 2021, 07:49 PM
    Podcast: https://play.acast.com/s/the-rest-is-history-podcast/60.muhammad
    Quote
    Muhammad

    Who was Muhammad, where did he come from and what was the historical context for his life? Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook discuss one of the most influential religious, social, and political leaders in history.

    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10391 - September 14, 2021, 05:24 AM
    About  the existence of 'Muhammad' I don't see how it could be otherwise that Holland be a great Believer. If it was not, he would be dead.
    Holland is right to point out Zubayr: I (many times) said here: The (Iraqi) Zubayr family are the key men of the emergence of the Quran and the prophetic figure to which the quranic texts adresses, they believed that this figure:
    1/ has existed meaning that the Biblical God (who is speaking in the texts) addresses in Arabic to someone ('you' in the texts) is a 'Prophet'. They claimed to hold his 'place' in the desert: they are the first and they are from the East, not from Damascus/Jerusalem.
    2/ They never see this figure, they never knew him. This figure and his story are their intellectual construction from the quranic texts they were the sole to have. It has permitted  them to rally people against Damascus (Malik).


  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10392 - September 14, 2021, 10:22 AM
    Quote from: Altara on September 14, 2021, 05:24 AM
    This figure and his story are their intellectual construction from the quranic texts they were the sole to have.


    Altara - are you arguing here that the quranic texts would not have been in circulation in Damascus/Jerusalem in the early conquest period? (in say the first few decades)
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10393 - September 14, 2021, 12:33 PM
    Yes.
    I edit and add that it does not mean that there was nothing from the ideas of the Quran in Syria between 636-692 , but clearly there is nothing which attests of the circulation of quranic texts in the West before 692, i.e before the defeat of Zubayr.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10394 - September 14, 2021, 02:50 PM
    Interesting.

    If we take, for example, an early manuscript such as the Sanaa palimpsest (which seems to be accepted as dating from the mid-7th century) do you think that it would have arrived in Sanaa soon after it was produced or is it something that could have ended up there many years later?
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10395 - September 15, 2021, 07:26 AM
    Quote
    If we take, for example, an early manuscript such as the Sanaa palimpsest (which seems to be accepted as dating from the mid-7th century)do you think that it would have arrived in Sanaa soon after it was produced or is it something that could have ended up there many years later?


    Both propositions are possible.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10396 - September 15, 2021, 11:44 AM
    Quote from: Altara on September 15, 2021, 07:26 AM
    Both propositions are possible.



    Nope ..Noo.  Nope...,   THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE ACCORDING TO YOUR THEORY OF ISLAMIC ORIGIN AND ORIGIN OF ARABIC QURAN dear Altara 
    Quote from: zeca on September 14, 2021, 02:50 PM
    Interesting.

    If we take, for example, an early manuscript such as the Sanaa palimpsest (which seems to be accepted as dating from the mid-7th century) do you think that it would have arrived in Sanaa soon after it was produced or is it something that could have ended up there many years later?

      zeca statements are possible only

    1) you prove Sana ARABIC MANUSCRIPT/S are different from the present book and is published after YOUR YEAR OF ISLAM  692..(??)

    2). You Prove or agree  that there were Arabic written manuscripts way before Islam begin.. that means before ..much before "This Muhammad " Character /story  of classical Islam was born ... that is 29th August ...570 ...  AND THOSE ARABIC MANSUCRIPTS/ STORIES  WERE DIFFERENT FROM PRESENT BOOK QURAN.,  damn we know exact date of birth of prophet
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10397 - September 15, 2021, 01:17 PM
    Quote
    Nope ..Noo.  Nope...,   THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE ACCORDING TO YOUR THEORY OF ISLAMIC ORIGIN AND ORIGIN OF ARABIC QURAN dear Altara


    We do not have any dates about the Sana palimpsest manuscripts. All discussions are conjectures. So both propositions are possible because nothing is provable. In fact all is possible, since we have no dates and when Zeca says about   Sana palimpsest: "( which seems to be accepted as dating from the mid-7th century)" it is a conjecture, nothing else.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10398 - September 15, 2021, 10:28 PM
    Off topic really but by way of comparison with the origins of the Quran here's a conversation about the origins of early Christian literature: https://www.ancientjewreview.com/read/2021/9/8/ajr-conversations-i-the-origins-of-early-christian-literature
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10399 - September 16, 2021, 09:04 PM
    Sanaa

    This manuscript has been dated (C14) numerous times. It is clearly from first half of 7th C. Making it later is absolutely not tenable based on the material evidence.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10400 - September 16, 2021, 09:20 PM
    Answering Some Questions on the Qur'an and the Bible - two part interview with Gabriel Said Reynolds
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9v-qPyqxfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxpAAhpNvW0
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10401 - September 16, 2021, 09:28 PM
    Exploring the Quran and the Bible - Hythem Sidky: The Regionality of the Qur'anic Codices
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrgRyV6duTg
    Quote
    In this video interview I have the pleasure of talking to Dr. Hythem Sidky about his ongoing work on Qur'an manuscripts and the regionality of Qur'anic codices. Dr. Sidky is the executive director of the International Qur'anic Studies Association.

    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10402 - September 16, 2021, 10:10 PM
    Quote from: mundi on September 16, 2021, 09:04 PM
    Sanaa

    This manuscript has been dated (C14) numerous times. It is clearly from first half of 7th C. Making it later is absolutely not tenable based on the material evidence.


    C14 is not (yet) reliable.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10403 - September 16, 2021, 10:31 PM
    The last video, with Hythem Sidky, talks about dating and the Sanaa palimpsest. I haven't watched it right through yet.
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10404 - September 17, 2021, 07:03 AM
    Quote from: zeca on September 16, 2021, 09:28 PM
    Exploring the Quran and the Bible - Hythem Sidky: The Regionality of the Qur'anic Codices
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrgRyV6duTg


    Sidky is a very smart guy, I guess he could not survive in computational  biology/chemistry?  or this Quranic investigations is HIS SECONDARY INTEREST?? just curious

    https://chicago.academia.edu/HythemSidky

    I like his 2019  little abstract....... In Islam do we have  One Muhammad or Many Muhammads  ??   ....    lol...

    well he is good.,   Hope he will not take Altara ball   and run it in to a goal post 
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10405 - September 17, 2021, 11:01 PM
    Quote from: zeca on September 15, 2021, 10:28 PM
    Off topic really but by way of comparison with the origins of the Quran here's a conversation about the origins of early Christian literature: https://www.ancientjewreview.com/read/2021/9/8/ajr-conversations-i-the-origins-of-early-christian-literature

    "If your argument is correct that the gospels were produced within highly literate elite circles, what becomes of the gospels as sources for early Christian history?"

    I consider that the quranic texts are the product of a 'highly literate elite circles', towards a target which was not at all the people of a 'great city of commerce' populated by idolaters, pagans, etc. City which have nerver existed, nor big or small where is 'Kaba/Mecca/ZamZam' today.

    "We need to ask: what do we know about authorship practices and what do we think their objectives might have been as intellectual elite cultural producers?"

    The question should be applied to the quranic texts. I have (of course...) certain responses to these questions. Responses (setting aside the frame Mecca/Abu Bakr/Kaba) grounded by historical sources which recount historical events which explain (for me...) the reason of the existence of the quranic texts. All has an explication.

    "Theoretically, you don’t need a religious “community” to describe that work historically; you just need texts and authors. "

    That's correct.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10406 - September 18, 2021, 03:33 PM
    Quote from: zeca on September 15, 2021, 10:28 PM
    Off topic really but by way of comparison with the origins of the Quran here's a conversation about the origins of early Christian literature: https://www.ancientjewreview.com/read/2021/9/8/ajr-conversations-i-the-origins-of-early-christian-literature



    Quote
    Robyn: That is an excellent book that I teach often. The work of Stan Stowers and Bill Arnal’s Symbolic Jesus were also formative for me, along with Sue Marchand’s work on German Romanticism; her German Orientalism in the Age of Empire is basically the book I wish I could have written. I really recommend those works to our colleagues in order to think more about these issues and I hope someday to write something as useful.


    well The lady Prof .. should work on another book and I suggest that book name    should be  "SYMBOLIC MOSES" and Jewish   Romanticism
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10407 - September 18, 2021, 03:51 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUVH8nUcUOI

    https://www.albawaba.com/node/saudi-websites-calls-rewrite-quran-spark-strong-online-backlash-1371223

    https://elaph.com/author/jarjis-gulizada.html#

    https://elaph.com/
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10408 - September 19, 2021, 05:03 PM
    Quote
    "Theoretically, you don’t need a religious “community” to describe that work historically; you just need texts and authors. "



    YES!
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10409 - September 19, 2021, 09:04 PM
    I edit the post :
    It is an important and interesting article.
    Jewish Connections and Connotations in the Poetry of Imru’ al-Qays (ca. 497-545 CE).

    https://www.academia.edu/37532505/Yosef_Yuval_Tobi_Jewish_Connections_and_Connotations_in_the_Poetry_of_Imru_al_Qays_ca_497_545_CE_N_Masarwah_J_Sadan_and_Gh_Anabseh_eds_IN_THE_INKWELL_OF_WORDS_Studies_in_Arab_Literature_and_Culture_In_Honour_of_Professor_Albert_Arazi_Vol_II_Noor_Publishing_2017_pp_195_390
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