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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8850 - January 19, 2020, 06:47 PM



    Interesting remark. What does she means by that? Does it means that fragments attest that the Quran was incomplete, therefore was in part written down after the conquest?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8851 - January 19, 2020, 06:57 PM

    I didn’t get that from reading the thread, unless I’m missing something. I understood it more as not just being able to assume that fragments come from a complete Quran without further evidence.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8852 - January 19, 2020, 08:32 PM

    Ok.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8853 - January 19, 2020, 08:43 PM

    Thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/bdaiwi_historia/status/1217544099512954881
    Quote
    1/Did early Muslim community conceive of itself as an epistemic community (or ecclesia)? Earliest instances of Muslim religious identity? Relying on literary & material sources from theology, & poetry, to inscriptions & numismatics, thread will explore question in brief

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8854 - January 19, 2020, 10:58 PM

    Quote
    In fact, followers of Musaylima had their own mosque in Kufa.

    As there was no "Prophet Muhammad"  some have cling to the train of "prophecy" "Musaylima" being one of them.
    But it is possible  that "Musaylima" (Muslim)  was another abstract figure, non existent, only created to be fought as a false prophet against the True Prophet.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8855 - January 20, 2020, 05:48 AM

    Altara,

    You contest there was a  Mohammed. What do you do with the 4 Quranic attestations?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8856 - January 20, 2020, 05:53 PM

    I do nothing. It is not because a "name" is written down that it represents someone who have existed. In that case Iron Man is existing now.
    Does he exists?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8857 - January 20, 2020, 06:32 PM

    Altara,

    You dont think the Mohammed in the Quran refers to the writer? B-E seems to think so.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8858 - January 20, 2020, 07:38 PM

    Nope.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8859 - January 21, 2020, 12:54 PM

    Quote
    Altara,

    You contest there was a  Mohammed. What do you do with the 4 Quranic attestations?

    I do nothing. It is not because a "name" is written down that it represents someone who have existed. In that case Iron Man is existing now.
    Does he exists?

    Altara,

    You dont think the Mohammed in the Quran refers to the writer? B-E seems to think so.

    Nope.


    mundi... dear mundi.. what kind of questions are they?  in fact I consider you as an expert in answering such questions.. ARE YOU TESTING ALTARA?? we already went through those four verses in this folder.. read around this post  in fact you answered the question....

    https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=27568.msg884118#msg884118
    https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=27568.msg884119#msg884119

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8860 - January 21, 2020, 01:25 PM

    As there was no "Prophet Muhammad"  some have cling to the train of "prophecy" "Musaylima" being one of them.
    But it is possible  that "Musaylima" (Muslim)  was another abstract figure, non existent, only created to be fought as a false prophet against the True Prophet.
    I do nothing. It is not because a "name" is written down that it represents someone who have existed. In that case Iron Man is existing now.
    Does he exists?


    Hmm.. Altara mentions a names .. A VERY FAMOUS NAME IN ISLAM... Musaylima... Musaylima... Musaylima and that ..Iron Man..

    Hmm.. Can any one find  for me those words in Quran?? ..  Musaylima... or...Iron Man??

    If you can not find those words., then why worry about discussing such nonsense stories  that are attached to Quran by fools who preach Quran as word of Allah/god??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8861 - January 21, 2020, 04:33 PM

    Quote
    Hmm.. Can any one find  for me those words in Quran?? ..  Musaylima... or...Iron Man??


     Cheesy
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8862 - January 21, 2020, 05:45 PM

    Mohammed in Quran

    Quote
    read around this post  in fact you answered the question


    Yeez,

    No, I don't know the answer. If Mohammed was added to the book it was after 640-650. We have no trace of addition in the manuscripts.

    Do I think Mohammed was the military leader of the Arabs? No,  I don't think that the military leader was the one writing the book or dictating it.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8863 - January 21, 2020, 06:18 PM

    Robert M. Kerr (2020) - „Forging Ahead into the Islamic Past“ – Einige Bemerkungen zur Inschrift von Zuhayr

    https://www.academia.edu/t/cqA4V-NBEWTFd-Xc6rZ/resource/work/41498981/_Forging_Ahead_into_the_Islamic_Past_Einige_Bemerkungen_zur_Inschrift_von_Zuhayr
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8864 - January 21, 2020, 09:45 PM

    Mohammed in Quran

    Yeez,

    No, I don't know the answer. If Mohammed was added to the book it was after 640-650. We have no trace of addition in the manuscripts.

    well then i and you should read our own old posts,,, we often write and forget about them dear mundi........ Hmm let me read these posts again...
    Quote
    Mohammed verses for the earliest manuscripts mentioned above:

    3:144   No mention in any of the early manuscripts
    33:40  only present in Dam 1-25.1 (no image available)
    3: 2  only present in Dam 1-29.1 (no image available, only partial presence "mh")
    48:29 only present in Dam 1-29.1 (no image available, part of verse containing "mhmd"is missing)

    The dating of Dam 1-25.1 and 1-29.1 is controversial. These datings are done by the lab of Lyon that apparently dates "too early"

    So this little survey leaves room for speculation. In any case no evidence of the verse being present and the word mhmd being omitted. I want to add that for the Dam 25 and 29, no images available in corpus coranicum, so difficult to really check.


    Yeez,

    Sanaa 1, Birmingham/Arab 328c,
    Qaf 47, also Dam 1-25.1 and Dam 1-29.1 have all been c14' ed to around 650, and possibly earlier (630). S 61.6 is not found in these manuscripts (see corpus Coranicum). Of course, that could be chance.

    Often later additions are suggested, but the manuscripts contradict it. But that at least, is not the case for 61.6.

    Nothing proven, but nothing disproven either. That is worth something, no?

    Mohammed verses for the earliest manuscripts mentioned above:

    3:144   No mention in any of the early manuscripts
    33:40  only present in Dam 1-25.1 (no image available)
    3: 2  only present in Dam 1-29.1 (no image available, only partial presence "mh")
    48:29 only present in Dam 1-29.1 (no image available, part of verse containing "mhmd"is missing)

    The dating of Dam 1-25.1 and 1-29.1 is controversial. These datings are done by the lab of Lyon that apparently dates "too early"

    So this little survey leaves room for speculation. In any case no evidence of the verse being present and the word mhmd being omitted. I want to add that for the Dam 25 and 29, no images available in corpus coranicum, so difficult to really check.




    well dear mundi those posts of yours are worth something and it is worth thinking about those 4 Muhammad verses + 1 Ahmed Verse.,.. The 5 verses of Quran..

    Quote
    Do I think Mohammed was the military leader of the Arabs? No,  I don't think that the military leader was the one writing the book or dictating it.

    well You are right., I too think in the same line.,

    Well Muhammad is JUST A TITLE.. COULD BE USED FOR MEN OR WOMEN., IT MEANS "PRAISE WORTH PERSON & EXPERT IN A GIVEN FIELD"..

    for e.g.  mundi is Muhammad of " https://corpuscoranicum.de/ " web site   Cheesy

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8865 - January 21, 2020, 10:20 PM

    Yeez,

    I miswrote of course!!!

    IF Mohammed was added to the book , it was BEFORE 640-650...

    Thanks for reposting my previous research...makes me doubt a little again...  I'll have to go over the manuscripts again and check with my  lists, make an update. I thought the case was closed "no additions"but apparently the proof is not there yet.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8866 - January 22, 2020, 10:51 AM

    Yeez,

    I miswrote of course!!!

    ............what?  what .. YOU MISWROTE???  miswrote??

    mundiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii................... I trusted you and your analytical abilities soooooooooo much ..and I was dependent on your techniques of cross checking those verses in those ooold Quran manuscripts .. you really shocked me..

    eerrrrrrrrrrr.. alright.. alright.. let us go back and discuss again those "4 Muhammad + 1 Ahmad ........"verses...
    Quote
    IfMohammed was added to the book , it was BEFORE 640-650...

    well that is different subject all together
    Quote
    Thanks for reposting my previous research...makes me doubt a little again...  I'll have to go over the manuscripts again and check with my  lists, make an update. I thought the case was closed "no additions"but apparently the proof is not there yet.

    well.. well don't thank me.,   I am exposing your errors.,   and  I am going to doubt everything you write and you do.,  and  I will ask others to cross check you everything you do in your life.... 24/7.........

    So let us start again on those same verses in a different folder.. Somewhere .. there is folder in this forum named "Muhammad(PBUH) in Quran".. we will do that there.,  you and me... .. help me out

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8867 - January 22, 2020, 05:40 PM

    Yeez,


    Funny Yeez,

    I miswrote this sentence:
    Quote
    No, I don't know the answer. If Mohammed was added to the book it was after 640-650. We have no trace of addition in the manuscripts.


    AFTER = BEFORE (as in before the realization of the archetype)

    But since you reminded of my previous work I am reconsidering and will check again. Things change in the field. Some manuscripts might be added to Corpus Coranicum.

    Yes, it is good to crosscheck and have others join the search for Mohammed in the Quran. I'll join.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8868 - January 22, 2020, 07:34 PM

    Yeez,

    ................. I'll join.

    well on these five verses we will go in to other folder The Myth of Mecca-the Myth of Muhammad and The Myths in Islam.. and discuss the subject as this folder is involved with variety of issues in Quran... So there you and me will talk., I question and you answer + teach me on those old Quran manuscripts and the verses in it..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8869 - January 22, 2020, 10:39 PM

    New book

    Majid Daneshgar - Studying the Qurʾān in the Muslim Academy

    https://global.oup.com/academic/product/studying-the-qurn-in-the-muslim-academy-9780190067540?cc=us&lang=en&#
    Quote
    Studying the Qur'an in the Muslim Academy examines what it is like to study and teach the Qur'an at academic institutions in the Muslim world, and how politics affect scholarly interpretations of the text. Guided by the author's own journey as a student, university lecturer, and researcher in Iran, Malaysia, and New Zealand, this book provides vivid accounts of the complex academic politics he encountered. Majid Daneshgar describes the selective translation and editing of Edward Said's classic work Orientalism into various Islamic languages, and the way Said's work is weaponized to question the credibility of contemporary Western-produced scholarship in Islamic studies. Daneshgar also examines networks of journals, research centers, and universities in both Sunni and Shia contexts, and looks at examples of Quranic interpretation there. Ultimately, he offers a constructive program for enriching Islamic studies by fusing the best of Western theories with the best philological practices developed in Muslim academic contexts, aimed at encouraging respectful but critical engagement with the Qur'an.

    Quote
    Introduction
    I. A taboo breaking project
    II. Study organization

    Chapter 1: "Islamic Apologetics" and Islamic Studies
    I. On"Islamic Apologetics"
    II. Western Islamic studies
    III. Modern trends in Qur'anic studies
    IV. Studying Islam outside its core lands

    Chapter 2: The Qur'an in the Muslim Academy: What Should Be Censored?
    I. Muslims' views of western Islamic studies
    II. Western works in the Muslim academy: Rippin's Qur'anic studies
    III. Studying the Qur'an in Muslim universities and seminaries
    IV. Reading the Qur'an with other materials
    V. Self-sufficiency in academic production
    VI. Muslims' reading of Muhammad's adopted son, Zayd

    Chapter 3: The Sectarian Study of Islam: A Culture of Isolation and the Isolation of Cultures
    I. From the Islamization of Biblical literature to the sectarianizing of the Muslim academy
    II. The Forgotten East
    III. Reception and marginalization of minorities
    IV. Forgetting the language and culture of everywhere/always

    Chapter 4: Hatred of Iinferiority and Confrontation with the West: Forgetting Some; Remembering Others
    I. Forgetting western scholars of the Qur'an: origins
    II. E. W. Said's Orientalism
    III. Muslim study of the Qur'an in the light of Orientalism
    IV. Mis-understanding of Europeans in Orientalism
    V. Remembering scientists

    Final Remarks
    I. Conclusions
    II. "Islamic Apologetics" everywhere

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8870 - January 22, 2020, 10:54 PM

    Thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/GabrielSaidR/status/1219621352140955649
    Quote
    In the Qur’an and Its Biblical Subtext (and now the Qur’an and the Bible) I call for an appreciation of the Qur’an for its own sake and an appreciation of the “remarkable literary achievement” of tafsir. To call this “colonial” is a sad misunderstanding or intentional distortion.


    This is the article referred to:

    Joseph Lumbard - Decolonializing Qur'anic Studies

    https://www.academia.edu/29844072/Decolonializing_Quranic_Studies
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8871 - January 23, 2020, 12:45 AM

    Well, as some have nothing to say and want to make some buzz, they accuses others of all the sins. Sins shifted according to time and were (fortunately) forgotten. Now it's over. I think those ones will last as they are constantly repeated every day in the media since ages now. In time, some will be fed up and start to be violent. Is this what's intended?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8872 - January 23, 2020, 09:26 AM

    Quote

    Joseph Lumbard - Decolonializing Qur'anic Studies

    https://www.academia.edu/29844072/Decolonializing_Quranic_Studies

    Quote
    Parvez Manzoor .................Muzaffar Iqbal....................

     

     
    Well, as some have nothing to say and want to make some buzz, they accuses others of all the sins. ...................'


     Yap  Parvez Manzoor and Muzaffar Iqbal likes are the heroes of Islam that write about true historical facts on Islam from Canada, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.,  Dr, Prof. Amrika Joseph Lumbard  is in a right company in Qatar to explore the history of Quran.,     Qatar is the best place to work and  make money by teaching Islam in English  along with the company of Islamic scholars from Pakistan ...............

     
    Quote
    1).  Parvez Manzoor.,  Method Against Truth: Orientalism and Quranic Studies., Muslim World   Book  Review., 7(1987), 39.

    2). Muzaffar Iqbal.,   Quran.   the Orientalism and encyclopedia of the Quran ., Journal of Quranic research studies ., 3:5(2008), 12
     
    3). Feras Hamza, Tafsir and Unlocking the Historical Quran,

    4). Behnam Sadeghi  and Uwe Bergmann., Codex of companion of the prophet and the quran of the prophet., Arabica 57 (2010)  , 412


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8873 - January 23, 2020, 01:54 PM

    Born and raised in Washington D.C., Lumbard was brought up within the Episcopal Church, serving as an altar boy. In his teenage years he lost interest and he was introduced to Islam when a sophomore at George Washington University. He converted to Islam a year and a half later.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_E._B._Lumbard
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8874 - January 23, 2020, 02:16 PM

    It did strike me that Lumbard, a white American convert, is accusing Reynolds, from an Arab American background, of being ‘colonialist’.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8875 - January 23, 2020, 02:54 PM

    For me. It does not.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8876 - January 23, 2020, 03:08 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klr3Jy2e3mk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjsyGOaWEBw

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8877 - January 23, 2020, 04:54 PM

    Interesting.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8878 - January 23, 2020, 07:32 PM

    MVP thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/PhDniX/status/1220342855522246657
    Quote
    New Open Access Article: "Hišām's ʾIbrāhām: Evidence for a Canonical Quranic Reading Based on the Rasm."

    This paper brings together different parts of study that I've been focusing on (Qirāʾāt, Manuscripts), happy it's finally out!

    A short summary thread
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-the-royal-asiatic-society/article/hisams-ibraham-evidence-for-a-canonical-quranic-reading-based-on-the-rasm/E1E00FF676696F869570F4A70C3115E4

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8879 - January 23, 2020, 07:37 PM

    MVP :Hišām's ʾIbrāhām : Evidence for a Canonical Quranic Reading Based on the Rasm

    Quote
    Abstract

    In early quranic Manuscripts the name of the prophet ʾIbrah̄ ım̄ occurs in two different spellings either
    ابرهم or ابرهيم . These two spellings are spread haphazardly throughout the Quran. Close examination of
    the patterns in the manuscript, however, show that the distribution of this spelling is not random or up to
    the whims of the scribe. The location where one spelling or the other occurs is highly correlated across the
    early manuscripts. Moreover, the location of one spelling or the other is highly correlated to where the
    quranic reader Hišam̄ reads the name as ʾIbrah̄am̄ or ʾIbrah̄ım̄ . This paper argues that this is not
    because these manuscripts have been written in the reading of Hišam̄ , but rather that Hišam̄ based
    his reading on the rasm of the quranic text.


    https://www.academia.edu/41712793/Hi%C5%A1a_ms_%CA%BEIbra_ha_m_Evidence_for_a_Canonical_Quranic_Reading_Based_on_the_Rasm



    Of course as there is no oral tradition (yawn...)
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