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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8460 - November 30, 2019, 01:00 PM

    He speaks in his brain first.

    Hmm., I fully agree with you .,

    Speaking with brain is far more important that just speaking from mouth ., which I call it as Oral diarrhea., So I  prefer folks reading and writing where one must use more of those neural network than those who just peak& speak  ..

    on that "speaking what is your OPINION ON THIS HISTORIAN

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3dAjDcTYws

    Khaled Abou El Fadl: Princeton Q&A..

    Quote
    https://law.ucla.edu/faculty/faculty-profiles/khaled-m-abou-el-fadl/

    Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl is one of the world’s leading authorities on Islamic law and Islam, and a prominent scholar in the field of human rights.  He is the Omar and Azmeralda Alfi Distinguished Professor in Islamic Law at the UCLA School of Law where he teaches International Human Rights, Islamic Jurisprudence, National Security Law, Law and Terrorism, Islam and Human Rights, Political Asylum and Political Crimes and Legal Systems.  He is also the Chair of the Islamic Studies Interdepartmental Program at UCLA.

    Among his many honors and distinctions, Dr. Abou El Fadl was awarded the University of Oslo Human Rights Award, the Leo and Lisl Eitinger Prize in 2007, and named a Carnegie Scholar in Islamic Law in 2005.  He was previously appointed by President George W. Bush to serve on the U.S. Commission for International Religious Freedom, and also served as a member of the board of directors of Human Rights Watch.  He continues to serve on the advisory board of Middle East Watch (part of Human Rights Watch) and regularly works with human rights organizations such as Amnesty International and the Lawyers’ Committee for Human Rights (Human Rights First) as an expert in a wide variety of cases involving human rights, terrorism, political asylum, and international and commercial law.  In 2005, he was also listed as one of LawDragon’s Top 500 Lawyers in the Nation. ..............

    A prolific scholar and prominent public intellectual, Dr. Abou El Fadl is the author of 14 books (five forthcoming) and over 50 articles on various topics in Islam and Islamic law.. His book, "The Great Theft, was the first work to delineate the key differences between moderate and extremist Muslims"


    well I am trying to get his book to see HIS ISLAM..



    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8461 - November 30, 2019, 01:03 PM

    On Bannister:

    I think he has an original approach and I don't think we should dismiss it easily.
    I whould of liked to see how different Surahs tested on orality. I wouldnt be surprised that some are indeed a record of someone recounting a story from memory, but that others are almost a literal translation/adaption into Arabic of certain Syriac or Hebrew texts.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8462 - November 30, 2019, 01:05 PM

    Christian Sahner - “The Monasticism of My Community is Jihad” A Debate on Asceticism, Sex, and Warfare in Early Islam

    https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:0801d65c-8f84-469e-84b8-f2b40852f8ff/download_file?file_format=pdf&safe_filename=Symplectic%2BMonasticism%2Band%2BJihad%2B-%2BFebruary%2B2017%2B-%2BRevisions%2Bfor%2BArabica.pdf&type_of_work=Journal+article
    Quote
    This article explores Muslim attitudes towards asceticism in the eighth and ninth centuries AD by examining the famous Prophetic ḥadīt: “Every community has its monasticism, and the monasticism of my community is ğihād.” The ḥadīt serves as a lens for assessing several broader phenomena, including early Muslim views of Christian monasticism, the rejection of celibacy in Islamic culture, and the promotion of a new code of sexual ethics in the post- conquest Middle East – what this article terms the “second sexual revolution of Late Antiquity.” It concludes by presenting several accounts of Christian monks who converted to Islam and joined the ğihād, as well as Muslim soldiers who converted to Christianity and became monks.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8463 - November 30, 2019, 01:09 PM


    "The Great Theft, was the first work to delineate the key differences between moderate and extremist Muslims"
    By Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl

    Hmm Google god gave me a web link of he talking about his book at C-Span .. Let me hear him first

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acKrGYOpAdQ

    I guess in AMRIKA .. OIL MONEY WORKS BETTER THAN PEN & BOOKS

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8464 - November 30, 2019, 03:27 PM

    On
    Quote
    Christian Sahner - “The Monasticism of My Community is Jihad” A Debate on Asceticism, Sex, and Warfare in Early Islam


    Interesting to read here, in line with the discussion we were having some months ago, that the coming of Islam meant the rising of polygamy and concubinage to the level of respectability again, even more, to the level of an ideal state sanctified in the Quran (thus by God himself).

    That must have been a big attraction pole for men to convert to Islam. Especially for the wealthy who could afford these things.

    Seen the general acceptance of the monogamy ideal in the West, would this polygamy/concubinage be something from the East? Of course Judaism was still polygamous at the time  I suppose...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8465 - November 30, 2019, 05:13 PM

    New book

    John Renard - Crossing Confessional Boundaries: Exemplary Lives in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic Traditions

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?vid=ISBN9780520287921&redir_esc=y
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8466 - November 30, 2019, 05:52 PM

    Lev Weitz - Creating Christian Marriage in Early Islamic Arabia

    https://www.academia.edu/40525248/Creating_Christian_Marriage_in_Early_Islamic_Arabia
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8467 - November 30, 2019, 10:19 PM

    The Ghassānids as Tax Collectors:

    I knew it that I was not Gallez  Wink
     


    Nevo/Koren do talk about this in chapter 1 the background of Crossroads To Islam and they say this started as soon as the 6th century and they were the foederati (quraysch).
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8468 - November 30, 2019, 10:50 PM

    Tax collectors:

    Plenty of people might have suggested it. What matters is, were their suggestions based on good sources?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8469 - November 30, 2019, 11:01 PM

    Nevo/Koren do talk about this in chapter 1 the background of Crossroads To Islam and they say this started as soon as the 6th century and they were the foederati (quraysch).


    Yes, I said it in  the first post about Nevo/Koren. I'm not convinced by foederati= quraysh.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8470 - November 30, 2019, 11:02 PM

    Tax collectors:

    Plenty of people might have suggested it. What matters is, were their suggestions based on good sources?


    I think it is.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8471 - December 01, 2019, 09:29 AM

    Quote
    Tax collectors:

    Plenty of people might have suggested it. What matters is, were their suggestions based on good sources?

     
    I think it is.


     foederati= quraysh ??

     I am not sure why worry  and  give so much importance to that one word of Quran  in that silly 4 line cryptic chapter 106 ?

    Is that because that 4 line 4 verses so-called Surah 106 is named as  as  "Quraish/Quraysh" ??

    Those chapter/Surah names in Quran must have come some time in 8th or 9th century., and I am not even sure that word is present in those early Quran manuscripts. ..   

     if you want to inquire about that famous Quraish  tribe ., then you have to go and read Hadith where we can find plenty of stories on them..


    As far as Quran is concerned  Ian Morris  rightly said at  http://www.iandavidmorris.com/quraysh-and-confederacy/

    Quote
    Quraysh’ is not, as far as we can tell, derived from Syriac; nor does it mean ‘confederated’.

    The medieval linguists, trying to understand the ‘age of ignorance’, used to fashion (somewhat) plausible etymologies based on the flimsiest evidence. Our homage to them is that we’re still at it today.

     

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8472 - December 01, 2019, 09:36 AM

    Quote
    I am not sure why worry  and  give so much importance to that one word of Quran  in that silly 4 line cryptic chapter 106 ?




    https://www.etymonline.com/word/hapax%20legomenon#etymonline_v_1452
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8473 - December 01, 2019, 09:39 AM

    Quote
    I am not sure why worry  and  give so much importance to that one word of Quran  in that silly 4 line cryptic chapter 106


    I think you are right here Yeez,
    Qrsh proabably meant nothing and it being Mohammed's tribe was invented out of convenience. or maybe these "Qadash"from Narsaï and Joshua the Stylite resembled sufficiently Qrsh to help associate 106 with a tribe. Maybe Gallez is not that far off?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8474 - December 01, 2019, 09:49 AM


     Cheesy Cheesy damn computational intelligence of 21st century

    I just typed "Koresh " instead of  "Quraysh"  for fun   it says

    Quote
    ............ Latinized form of Greek Kyros, from Old Persian Kurush, a name of unknown etymology. In Hebrew the name is Koresh, and in that form it was taken c. 1990 by Wayne Howell of Texas, U.S., when he became head of the Branch Davidian church there..............


    And then google god took me to Ashkenazi Jews  Jewish  tribe living near Dead sea  during that time..

    why go around circles?  why not separate Quran writers , Quran manuscripts from Islam the faith??    and couple Islamic faith and origin of Islam  to Hadith and Hadith stories  only??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8475 - December 01, 2019, 10:24 AM

    ........................
    Qrsh proabably meant nothing and it being Mohammed's tribe was invented out of convenience....................


    well like that ..Qrsh...or "Quraysh".... ,   the word "Mohammed"   or .....HMD ....or ...MHD...  or whatever.... is another chapter name in Quran dear mundi

    That Chapter 47,,  Surat "Muhammad"  has NOTHING IN IT About :Muhammad:

    So why name it as "Muhammad"??   

    answer is   .....allah knows the best .....

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8476 - December 01, 2019, 10:56 AM

    Quote
    So why name it as "Muhammad"?? 


    There was no sura title in earliest manuscripts.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8477 - December 01, 2019, 10:57 AM

    Quote
    why go around circles?  why not separate Quran writers , Quran manuscripts from Islam the faith??    and couple Islamic faith and origin of Islam  to Hadith and Hadith stories  only??


    Err... That is what I'm doing Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8478 - December 01, 2019, 11:12 AM

    Err... That is what I'm doing Wink

     Cat fight

    Ha! .. huu!    what??   .. where ?  where did you do it?

    what should I read?  what should I link?

    DO  NOT TELL ME " READ MY BOOK"

     what book? what publication? where is your Ph. D. Thesis? where is the book?   dear  Altara

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8479 - December 01, 2019, 11:28 AM

    What I'm doing, not what (yet) I have done. Wink Otherwise I wrote down 60 pages in this forum. I think that it is enough to prove my point Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8480 - December 01, 2019, 08:24 PM

    The Bible through a Qur'ānic Filter: Scripture Falsification (Taḥrīf) in 8th -and 9th -Century Muslim Disputational Literature
    https://www.academia.edu/34998023/The_Bible_through_a_Qur%C4%81nic_Filter_Scripture_Falsification_Ta%E1%B8%A5r%C4%ABf_in_8th_-and_9th_-Century_Muslim_Disputational_Literature
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8481 - December 02, 2019, 05:24 PM

    well like that ..Qrsh...or "Quraysh"....


    What is their duty/job in muslim tradition ? Who in the Bible has the same duty/function ?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8482 - December 02, 2019, 06:23 PM

    No one knows, you're going to tell us.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8483 - December 03, 2019, 10:45 AM

    Thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/NaqadStudies/status/1201720719928971264
    Quote
    The Karbalah Inscription (DKI 163) is dated to 64 AH / 683 CE, and is indicative of a transition period in proto-Islamic expression.

    In it, we see the solidification of older prayer formulas, while others were still very much in development.

    The inscription begins with the Basmala, in the form we know it today.

    In the middle of line five, we see a long rectangle, indicating the end of a set prayer (lines 1-5), probably copied from a known source.

    Lines 2-5 lack a verb, indicating the lines are describing Allāh.

    After the prayer ends in line five, we read the inscription's appeal to Allāh as "Lord of Gabriel, Michael and I/Asrāfīl."

    Before various traditions coalesced around Muhammad as the core prophetic figurehead, 7th c formulae invoked Allāh as Lord of Mūsa, ‘Isà, & other prophets.

    DKI 163 represents a late point in religious transition. It would only be a few years before inscriptions would produce the name Muḥammad or Praised One in formulae.

    Famously, the Dome of the Rock inscription (70 AH) is a very early example of a Muḥammad-centered formula.

    We also read the then-common appeal in inscriptions for an individual to be forgiven of past and future sins, a formula which reminds us passages such as:

    "That Allah may forgive thee [Muhammad] of thy sin that which is past and that which is to come." Q 48:2

    Lastly, we see the 64 AH date reckoning, which is well known to have been in common use in the 1st/7th c.

    We have inscriptions and papyri that supply AH dates to within a few years of 622 CE, so this tradition was well established by the time of the inscriber of DKI 163.


    Also: https://mobile.twitter.com/NaqadStudies/status/1201720728074235904
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8484 - December 03, 2019, 03:27 PM

    Quote
    Cat fight

    Ha! .. huu!    what??   .. where ?  where did you do it?

    what should I read?  what should I link?

    DO  NOT TELL ME " READ MY BOOK"

     what book? what publication? where is your Ph. D. Thesis? where is the book?   dear  Altara

    What I'm doing, not what (yet) I have done. Wink Otherwise I wrote down 60 pages in this forum. I think that it is enough to prove my point Wink


    There is little doubt on that., dear Alatra your contribution to this forum in understanding origins of Quran and early Islam through the eyes of Academics is immense .,   In fact you and zeca is the reason why I stared reading academic publications on Islamic faith ., other wise I was only reading Quran, Hadith, Sunnah and around cultural Islamic history and and pulling my hair to understand the gist plus  mindset of early Islamic historians   .,  I started Questioning existence of Prophet of QURANIC ISLAM (( which is way different from hadith/cultural Islam)) around 2010 after interacting with a good friend The Cat at FFI.,  you can see that from   reading these folders.

    http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8527&start=0
    https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16018.0

    and I and The Cat both carefully followed Sam Shamoun  at https://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/seal_of_prophethood.htm

    after that  it is  you., and you started looking Quran and Islam from the eyes of Academics.,

    So I cannot  underestimate your importance  to this forum in  making me and other readers  to think out of the box on the origins Quran and origins of Islam.,

      But but., I am one of those guys who wants more work  from my colleagues, collaborators, students, relatives, pets..etc..etc. ........... ..  And  and I am of the opinion that one or two publications of yours in Academic journals  along with the lines of the posts you have written in this forum will certainly make huge difference on the Origins of Quran and Origins of Islam..   SO THAT IS THE REASON I PUSH YOU A BIT AROUND.. Cheesy

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8485 - December 04, 2019, 06:02 PM

    Video: https://mobile.twitter.com/franceculture/status/1201395574001393664
    Quote
    Pour de nombreux historiens, il y aurait en fait plusieurs versions du texte fondateur de l'Islam. C'est la thèse que développe, notamment, l'historien François Déroche dans son ouvrage "Le Coran, une histoire plurielle".

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8486 - December 04, 2019, 06:06 PM

    Hythem Sidky - review of Daniel Alan Brubaker, Corrections in Early Qurʾānic Manuscripts: Twenty Examples

    https://www.middleeastmedievalists.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/UW-27-Sidky.pdf

    Daniel Brubaker on twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/dbru1
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8487 - December 05, 2019, 04:24 PM

    Sidky review is interesting. Waiting now for the response of Brubaker.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8488 - December 05, 2019, 05:06 PM



    Déroche was never trained as an historian, but as a philologue in Greek and Latin.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8489 - December 05, 2019, 11:38 PM

    Hythem Sidki:
    On the Regionality of Qur'anic Codices: A Philological and Phylogenetic Study

    https://www.college-de-france.fr/site/francois-deroche/symposium-2019-06-07-17h30.htm
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