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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7860 - October 11, 2019, 12:18 AM

    Procopius and the East

    https://www.academia.edu/9077244/Procopius_and_the_East_in_M._Meier_-_F._Montinaro_ed._Brills_Companion_to_Procopius_Leiden_Boston_Brill_2020_yet_unpublished_?fs=cwwc-886610963
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7861 - October 11, 2019, 12:56 AM

    Texts coming from the sky?


     Translated/Arranged from religious texts

    Quote
    Elaborate...


    De Premarre

    Quote
    1/Therefore, "different people" have collected them in different codex, right?
    2/Because it is what one sees : different codex, different orders.


    In my view I see a process identical to the collection and arrangement of the 2 Genesis account in the Torah in the sense that you have the same events told many times in different ways ; the suras arrangement and its variations might come from the Quran collection process and not necessarely because there were different people with different texts.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7862 - October 11, 2019, 09:02 AM



    The Wars of Justinian: https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Wars_of_Justinian.html?id=eK9aBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y

    The Secret History: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=B4KV-S3BX7AC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7863 - October 11, 2019, 09:06 AM



    Procopius and the East  by Henning Börm

    that is a very interesting work dear Altara., It is worth exploring the works of Persian Scholars and  Byzantine Greek scholars  on the history of middle east between  the years 500 and 700 on the events of that time

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7864 - October 11, 2019, 09:11 AM

    Anthony Kaldellis - The Date and Structure of Prokopios’ Secret History and His Projected Work on Church History

    https://grbs.library.duke.edu/article/download/1261/1341
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7865 - October 11, 2019, 10:06 AM

    Translated/Arranged from religious texts


    Rather vague...

    Quote
    De Prémare


    Reference(s)?

    Quote
    In my view I see a process identical to the collection and arrangement of the 2 Genesis account in the Torah


    Indeed.Interesting connection.

    Quote
    the suras arrangement and its variations

     

    The order?

    Quote
    might come from the Quran collection process


    I don't see the connection.Elaborate...

    Quote
    and not necessarily because there were different people with different texts.


    Different order of the Quranic texts. Different order means (for me...) that different groups had those texts and arrange them differently because there is no centralisation in the beginning. The centralisation will come later with the codex ones know today.


  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7866 - October 11, 2019, 11:32 AM

    that is a very interesting work dear Altara., It is worth exploring the works of Persian Scholars and  Byzantine Greek Roman scholars  on the history of middle east between  the years 500 and 700 on the events of that time


    One does not have Persian sources. People of the East Empire called themselves "Romans". "Byzantine Greek" is an expression invented in the XIXth. c by German scholarship.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7867 - October 11, 2019, 12:08 PM

    People of the East Empire called themselves "Romans". "Byzantine Greek" is an expression invented in the XIXth. c by German scholarship.


    Anthony Kaldellis has a new book on this...

    Romanland: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Romanland-Ethnicity-Byzantium-Anthony-Kaldellis/dp/0674986512/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=69283406318&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzYiurZWU5QIVRrTtCh2T2w5wEAAYASAAEgIh5vD_BwE&hvadid=338970723282&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9046666&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3625178333315888876&hvtargid=kwd-666649892558&hydadcr=28950_1727019&keywords=romanland&qid=1570795588&sr=8-1
    Quote
    A leading historian argues that in the empire we know as Byzantium, the Greek-speaking population was actually Roman, and scholars have deliberately mislabeled their ethnicity for the past two centuries for political reasons. Was there ever such a thing as Byzantium? Certainly no emperor ever called himself "Byzantine." And while the identities of minorities in the eastern empire are clear-contemporaries speak of Slavs, Bulgarians, Armenians, Jews, and Muslims-that of the ruling majority remains obscured behind a name made up by later generations. Historical evidence tells us unequivocally that Byzantium's ethnic majority, no less than the ruler of Constantinople, would have identified as Roman. It was an identity so strong in the eastern empire that even the conquering Ottomans would eventually adopt it. But Western scholarship has a long tradition of denying the Romanness of Byzantium. In Romanland, Anthony Kaldellis investigates why and argues that it is time for the Romanness of these so-called Byzantines to be taken seriously. In the Middle Ages, he explains, people of the eastern empire were labeled "Greeks," and by the nineteenth century they were shorn of their distorted Greekness and became "Byzantine." Only when we understand that the Greek-speaking population of Byzantium was actually Roman will we fully appreciate the nature of Roman ethnic identity. We will also better understand the processes of assimilation that led to the absorption of foreign and minority groups into the dominant ethnic group, the Romans who presided over the vast multiethnic empire of the east.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTbZRqEg2uo
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7868 - October 11, 2019, 02:04 PM

    Quote
    Historical evidence tells us unequivocally that Byzantium's ethnic majority, no less than the ruler of Constantinople, would have identified as Roman.


    Of course.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7869 - October 11, 2019, 02:22 PM

    Middle Persian Papyri, Ostraca and Parchments  by Arash  Zeini

    Quote
      Middle Persian documents are variously preserved on parchment, papyrusand textiles. The earliest of these date from the Sasanian occupation of Egypt andare thus more securely located in time (618–629 CE). The majority of these documents hail from different stages of finds at the Fayyūm oasis in Egypt.


    http://www.arashzeini.com/

    Corpus Inscriptionum Iranicarum

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7870 - October 11, 2019, 02:45 PM

    Sasanian occupation of Egypt and are thus more securely located in time (618–629 CE).
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7871 - October 11, 2019, 03:38 PM

    Kevin van Bladel - The Six Manuscript traditions of the Sasanian Kingdom
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux94BF95j0E
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7872 - October 11, 2019, 04:57 PM

    Listening to Kevin van Bladel’s talk it occurs to me that assuming the Altara thesis (relocating the production of the Quran from the Hijaz to Iraq) then the writers, copyists and original audience of the Quran could be seen as a seventh Sassanian manuscript tradition, that maybe shares some of the same constraints as the others including the selection and survival of manuscripts. It might be interesting to speculate on what manuscripts were lost.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7873 - October 11, 2019, 05:10 PM

    Kevin van Bladel - Literatures in Arabian Languages in Late Antiquity

    https://www.academia.edu/37401809/van_Bladel_2018_Literatures_in_Arabian_Languages_in_Late_Antiquity_.pdf
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7874 - October 11, 2019, 05:32 PM

    Thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/iandavidmorris/status/1182651081932886017
    Quote
    I’m reading Róbert Simon on ‘Meccan Trade and Islam’ (1989). It’s not the easiest read, but of course there may have been problems in translation from Hungarian.

    Simon’s book came out soon after Patricia Crone’s on ‘Meccan Trade and the Rise of Islam’ (1987), so inevitably I’m comparing them as I go.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7875 - October 11, 2019, 06:25 PM

    Listening to Kevin van Bladel’s talk it occurs to me that assuming the Altara thesis (relocating the production of the Quran from the Hijaz to Iraq) then the writers, copyists and original audience of the Quran could be seen as a seventh Sassanian manuscript tradition,


    Possible, but not necessarily.
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7876 - October 11, 2019, 06:54 PM



    Ian need a career, need to eat, like the others. That is the issue.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7877 - October 11, 2019, 10:58 PM

    Theophylact Simocatta, a Roman source for the later sixth century, after Procopius was writing.


    Encyclopædia Iranica on Theophylact Simocatta

    http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/theophylact-simocatta


    Theophylact Simocatta and the Persians

    https://wildfiregames.com/forum/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=7148


    Michael Whitby - The Emperor Maurice and his Historian: Theophylact Simocatta on Persian and Balkan Warfare

    https://www.docdroid.net/4UgAVXe/michael-whitby-the-emperor-maurice-and-his-historian-theophylact-simocatta-on-persian-and-balkan-warfare-1998.pdf
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7878 - October 11, 2019, 11:25 PM

    Quote from: zeca
    I’ve noticed before that accounts of the conquests don’t see the taking of Yemen, say, as requiring any real explanation although to me it doesn’t seem any less important than somewhere like Egypt. Or is this just an issue with a lack of sources?

    Interesting remark.I didn't really look at the history of the conquest of Yemen. Maybe I should. Egypt was wealthier and a dominion of the Romans. This was not the case of Yemen. I have to see what Tabari says about the conquest.


    This passage from Hoyland’s In God’s Path is a case in point: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=i3LDBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=%22while+muhammad+led+this+expedition%22&source=bl&ots=4VWfJcUBdi&sig=ACfU3U0FNMeAst0dhdiSRys4QfcGMw_F1w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjc56ydsJXlAhWHXsAKHYQ2DwEQ6AEwAHoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22while%20muhammad%20led%20this%20expedition%22&f=false

    In an otherwise comprensive account of the conquests this is, as far as I can make out, all he has to say about the conquest of the Arabian peninsula.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7879 - October 12, 2019, 12:40 AM

    Well... interesting. All what has happened in the East Coast, Muslim polygraphs said that happened from the West side. It is normal as they think through the frame which explain to them the existence of the Quran (Mecca, ect.).
    Pourshariati has demonstrated the contrary. For her the war began in 628 in Iraq. For me largely before 628 in Iraq as well. As Dhu qar could not be wiped out of the memory of people, then, it has been Islamized (in good faith, there is no plot...) like all the events of the conquest. Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7880 - October 12, 2019, 09:04 AM

    Does this account of Du Qar look reliable to you? http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/du-qar
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7881 - October 12, 2019, 09:21 AM

    Yes.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7882 - October 12, 2019, 10:16 AM

    Quote
    Well... interesting. All what has happened in the East Coast, Muslim polygraphs said that happened from the West side. It is normal as they think through the frame which explain to them the existence of the Quran (Mecca, ect.).
    Pourshariati has demonstrated the contrary. For her the war began in 628 in Iraq. For me largemement before 628 in Iraq as well. As Dhu qar could not be wiped out of the memory of people, then, it has been Islamized (in good faith, there is no plot...) like all the events of the conquest. Wink

    Does this account of Du Qar look reliable to you?  Ḏu qar  link from iranicaonline

    Yes.



    The problem appears to be  Islamic & Non-Islamic historians  trying to tell the story of early Islam by "mixing the early Quranic mansuscripts  with "Mecca-Medina-Muhammad" and and trying to read the expansion of Islamic empire/empires  through the "Quran- Muhammad-Mecca -Medina- Zam-Zam"  frame work ..

    those are quite independent things., Early Quranic manuscripts are very little to do with expansion of Islamic empires., In fact if I remove 40-50 verses from the present Quran.., and tons of junk  from hadith stories  ., Such Islam is very very little do with present Islamic rubbish that I see in Mosques and Masjids which comes out of Mullahs & Imams

    ****************************************************************************

    Pre-Islamic Brigands in Mamluk Historiography Taqī al-Dīn al-Maqrīzī’s Account of “The Brigands Among the Arabs by Guy Ron-Gilboa

    Anti-Sasanian Apocalypse And The Early Qur’ān: Why Muḥammad Began His Career As A Prophet Who Genuinely Prophesied  by DANIEL   BECK

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7883 - October 12, 2019, 11:20 AM

    Interesting.Wink Is this available somewhere?

    It’s listed but not uploaded on his academia.edu page so I guess you could ask for a copy.

    Adam Silverstein - Who Are the Aṣḥāb al-Ukhdūd? Q 85:4-10 in Near Eastern Context

    https://www.academia.edu/40576544/_Who_Are_the_Aṣḥāb_al-Ukhdūd_Q_85_4-10_in_Near_Eastern_Context_
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7884 - October 12, 2019, 11:38 AM


    Thank you zeca ...  your Academic links are always educational ., I wonder why he took only verses from 4 to 10 from that surah  Al-BurooJ.,   is it Pit & Burning problem??

    well whatever may be his thinking .. let me read whole surah ., after all it is just 22 verses in it
    Quote
    1. I swear by the mansions of the stars,
    2. And the promised day,
    3. And the witness and what is witnessed,

    Quote
    4. Cursed be the makers of the   pit,
    5. the fire full of fuel,
    6. When they were sitting near it
    7. And they were witnesses of what they did with the believers.
    8. And they did not take vengeance on them for aught except that they believed in Allah, the Mighty, the Praised,
    9. Whose is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth; and Allah is a Witness of all things.
    10. Surely  those who persecute the believing men and the believing women, then do not repent, they shall have the chastisement of hell, and they shall have the chastisement of burning.

    11. Surely  those who believe and do good, they shall have gardens beneath which rivers flow, that is the great achievement.
    12. Surely the might of your Lord is great.
    13. Surely He it is Who originates and reproduces,
    14. And He is the Forgiving, the Loving,
    15. Lord of the Arsh, the Glorious,
    16. The great doer of what He will.
    17. Has not there come to you the story of the hosts,
    18. Of Firon and Samood?
    19. Nay! those who disbelieve are in  giving the lie to the truth.
    20. And Allah encompasses them on every side.
    21. Nay! it is a glorious Quran,
    22. In a guarded tablet.


      The book of himyarites

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7885 - October 12, 2019, 11:53 AM

    Quote
    The problem appears to be  Islamic & Non-Islamic historians  trying to tell the story of early Islam by "mixing the early Quranic mansuscripts  with "Mecca-Medina-Muhammad" and and trying to read the expansion of Islamic empire/empires  through the "Quran- Muhammad-Mecca -Medina- Zam-Zam"  frame work ..


    That this concerns Islamic historians seems logic. It is not for Non-Islamic ones. They are not supposed to believe the narrative which explains the existence of the Quran when they know that it does not exists any sources validating what the narrative recounts about it pretending that it is historical (Muhammad-Mecca -Medina- Zam-Zam). Narrative on which hold the Islamic religion in which Muslims are "obliged" to believe.It is de facto a faith. Not about supernatural event, but to supposed historical ones. If they do not, the question arise: Where does come from the Quran then?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7886 - October 12, 2019, 12:03 PM

    That this concerns Islamic historians seems logic. It is not for Non-Islamic ones........... 

    I have a simple explanation for that  and I will

    DIGITAL ARCHIVE FOR THE STUDY OF PRE-ISLAMIC ARABIAN INSCRIPTIONS

    The relationship between Arabic Alla¯h and Syriac Alla¯ha¯ .    by David Kiltz


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7887 - October 12, 2019, 12:24 PM

    It’s listed but not uploaded on his academia.edu page so I guess you could ask for a copy.

    Adam Silverstein - Who Are the Aṣḥāb al-Ukhdūd? Q 85:4-10 in Near Eastern Context

    https://www.academia.edu/40576544/_Who_Are_the_Aṣḥāb_al-Ukhdūd_Q_85_4-10_in_Near_Eastern_Context_


    Quote
    ‍♂️Sean •the grading ghoul• Anthony‍♂️ @shahanSean
    1d

    As Silverstein notes, this was Abraham Geiger's view and one that, w/ many modifications of the biblical Daniel 3, appears in early Arabic literature as well. See, for instance, the entry on Nebuchadnezzar from Ibn ʿAsākir's history of Damascus
    There's a lot more to article, including an interesting etymology of uḫdūd, but suffice it to say that I found it very convincing.

      
    Safaitic's avatar
    Ahmad Al-Jallad @Safaitic
    1d
    Replying to @shahanSean

    Could you please share the etymology? I won’t be able to read the article anytime soon ...
      
    shahanSean's avatar
    ‍♂️Sean •the grading ghoul• Anthony‍♂️ @shahanSean
    1d
    Replying to @Safaitic

    He follows Hayajneh’s suggestion that اخدود should be vocalized as ʾaḫdūd  and then posits that it’s a portmanteau combing ʾakh (Egyptian for ‘furnace’, but attested in Hebrew) with dūd (Heb./Aram. cauldron).

    shahanSean's avatar
    ‍♂️Sean •the grading ghoul• Anthony‍♂️ @shahanSean
    1d
    Replying to @shahanSean @Safaitic

    He also connects it to Dūdael/[Beth] Ḥadūdo mentioned in Enochic and rabbinical lit. as the final destination of Azazel/Satan, respectively. Thus, aṣḥāb al-uḫdūd has an additional meaning (those destined for the Inferno/Beth Ḥadūdo). [Hopefully my summary didn't muck it up.]

    PhDniX's avatar
    Marijn van Putten
    @PhDniX
    Replying to @shahanSean @Safaitic

    How dependent is this article on this new etymology? Because it strikes me as rather tenuous.

    11:36am · 12 Oct 2019 · Twitter Web App

     ‍♂️Sean •the grading ghoul• Anthony‍♂️ @shahanSean
    1h
    Replying to @PhDniX @Safaitic

    If he's right, it strengths his case, but if the etymology is wrong, it's no spoiler for other parts of the argument.
     
    shahanSean's avatar
    ‍♂️Sean •the grading ghoul• Anthony‍♂️ @shahanSean
    1h
    Replying to @shahanSean @PhDniX @Safaitic

    And portmanteau is my word, not his ftr

     
    PhDniX's avatar
    Marijn van Putten
    @PhDniX
    Replying to @shahanSean @Safaitic

    I think using that word is fine! It's just the idea that a word consists out of two separate nouns combining into one in a Semitic language other than modern Hebrew is basically unheard of. Cheesy (Modern Standard Arabic joins in the fun occasionally)
     


    The reflection of MVP is interesting. Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7888 - October 12, 2019, 03:26 PM

    That this concerns Islamic historians seems logic. It is not for Non-Islamic ones. They are not supposed to believe the narrative which explains the existence of the Quran when they know that it does not exists any sources validating what the narrative recounts about it pretending that it is historical (Muhammad-Mecca -Medina- Zam-Zam). Narrative on which hold the Islamic religion in which Muslims are "obliged" to believe.It is de facto a faith. Not about supernatural event, but to supposed historical ones. If they do not, the question arise: Where does come from the Quran then?

    dear Altara on that point.,   forget supernatural business let us think about the Non-Islamic historians  writings without that supernatural business ..

    Perfect example is that publication of  Adam Silverstein - Who Are the Aṣḥāb al-Ukhdūd? Q 85:4-10 in Near Eastern Context

    what do those verses say about people of Ukhdud'  who were apparently believers of Allah and were burned  by some other people??

    why do these NON-ISLAMIC HISTORIANS  write nonsense publications on alleged story apparently happened way before Quran birth .. On top of it Quran in fact doesn't mention neither place nor people ( TRUE HADITH SAYS SOMETHING ON THAT)  yet folks write publications over publication on it ..

    what all those verses  saying is some believers were burned by some other believers ..whatever  .,

    My question is why??  There are zillion examples of execution of people  by burning for one reason or other., and these stories/real stories  were there much before Islam., Quran writers could have   taken any such historical brutal stories and put them in to Quran .,  Quran is simply a book for believers and it reinforces faith in the minds of believers either by giving .. goody goody stuff in this life and after this life .. or..or .. IT GIVES HELL /HELL FIRE in this life and  after this life to that soul/doll whatever to those who question Allah/Islam/prophet/ and the book 

    that is all what it is.. IT IS A BOOK OF SAYINGS FOR BELIEVERS .. SOME CURSES & SOME GOOD STUFF

    So such unquestionable nonsense papers are/were  published on Quran verses  by Non-Muslim historians for the simple reason .. They are academics hence they need to publish for the sake of Job..  and is nothing to do with real history ..

    anyways there are other reasons why they(NON-MUSLIM HISTORIANS) have published such uncritical history on early Islam/Quran/Prophet of Islam.. many of them do not even/did not even  read Quran carefully



    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7889 - October 12, 2019, 06:16 PM

    Quote
    what do those verses say about people of Ukhdud'  who were apparently believers of Allah and were burned  by some other people??

    People of Ukhdud'  are the persecutors not the persecuted.

    The proposition of Silverstein is interesting.

    Read Daniel 3 :


    3 King Nebuchadnezzar made a golden statue whose height was sixty cubits and whose width was six cubits; he set it up on the plain of Dura in the province of Babylon. 2 Then King Nebuchadnezzar sent for the satraps, the prefects, and the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the justices, the magistrates, and all the officials of the provinces, to assemble and come to the dedication of the statue that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. 3 So the satraps, the prefects, and the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the justices, the magistrates, and all the officials of the provinces, assembled for the dedication of the statue that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. When they were standing before the statue that Nebuchadnezzar had set up, 4 the herald proclaimed aloud, “You are commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, 5 that when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, drum, and entire musical ensemble, you are to fall down and worship the golden statue that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. 6 Whoever does not fall down and worship shall immediately be thrown into a furnace of blazing fire.” 7 Therefore, as soon as all the peoples heard the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, drum, and entire musical ensemble, all the peoples, nations, and languages fell down and worshiped the golden statue that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up.

    8 Accordingly, at this time certain Chaldeans came forward and denounced the Jews. 9 They said to King Nebuchadnezzar, “O king, live forever! 10 You, O king, have made a decree, that everyone who hears the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, drum, and entire musical ensemble, shall fall down and worship the golden statue, 11 and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be thrown into a furnace of blazing fire. 12 There are certain Jews whom you have appointed over the affairs of the province of Babylon: Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. These pay no heed to you, O king. They do not serve your gods and they do not worship the golden statue that you have set up.”

    13 Then Nebuchadnezzar in furious rage commanded that Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego be brought in; so they brought those men before the king. 14 Nebuchadnezzar said to them, “Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, that you do not serve my gods and you do not worship the golden statue that I have set up? 15 Now if you are ready when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, drum, and entire musical ensemble to fall down and worship the statue that I have made, well and good.[a] But if you do not worship, you shall immediately be thrown into a furnace of blazing fire, and who is the god that will deliver you out of my hands?”

    16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego answered the king, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to present a defense to you in this matter. 17 If our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire and out of your hand, O king, let him deliver us.18 But if not, be it known to you, O king, that we will not serve your gods and we will not worship the golden statue that you have set up.”
    The Fiery Furnace

    19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was so filled with rage against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego that his face was distorted. He ordered the furnace heated up seven times more than was customary, 20 and ordered some of the strongest guards in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and to throw them into the furnace of blazing fire. 21 So the men were bound, still wearing their tunics,[c] their trousers,[d] their hats, and their other garments, and they were thrown into the furnace of blazing fire. 22 Because the king’s command was urgent and the furnace was so overheated, the raging flames killed the men who lifted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. 23 But the three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down, bound, into the furnace of blazing fire.

    24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished and rose up quickly. He said to his counselors, “Was it not three men that we threw bound into the fire?” They answered the king, “True, O king.” 25 He replied, “But I see four men unbound, walking in the middle of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the fourth has the appearance of a god.”[e] 26 Nebuchadnezzar then approached the door of the furnace of blazing fire and said, “Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, servants of the Most High God, come out! Come here!” So Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego came out from the fire. 27 And the satraps, the prefects, the governors, and the king’s counselors gathered together and saw that the fire had not had any power over the bodies of those men; the hair of their heads was not singed, their tunics[f] were not harmed, and not even the smell of fire came from them. 28 Nebuchadnezzar said, “Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who has sent his angel and delivered his servants who trusted in him. They disobeyed the king’s command and yielded up their bodies rather than serve and worship any god except their own God. 29 Therefore I make a decree: Any people, nation, or language that utters blasphemy against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego shall be torn limb from limb, and their houses laid in ruins; for there is no other god who is able to deliver in this way.” 30 Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the province of Babylon.

    Quote
    why do these NON-ISLAMIC HISTORIANS  write nonsense publications on alleged story apparently happened way before Quran birth ..


    See above.

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