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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

 (Read 414085 times)
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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7140 - July 18, 2019, 11:58 AM

     Cheesy  Altara  says READ..READ... mundi says  no..noooo.. summarize..summarize

    Quote
    ...................
    Read (carefully) what Tabari recounts about Zubayr in his Tarikh during the war between Zubayr and Abd al Malik....

    Altara,

    Why dont you summarize this.


    well that is funny...

    hi mundi. i too say read..read..   here is the link for 40 volumes......40 volumes ..... lol

    History of Abū Jaʿfar Muḥammad ibn Jarīr al-Ṭabarī (224–310 AH; 839–923 AD)

    mundi .. read one by one.. ALL VOLUMES ...  literature  of Islam on  on religious, political. economical  ideas is like NEVER ENDING "....RUN  IN CIRCLES ..."  project without moving an inch forward

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7141 - July 18, 2019, 12:13 PM

    Quote
    Entre mémoire et pouvoir: L'espace syrien sous les derniers ..., Volumes 72-809 By Antoine Borrut 

    I wonder any of you guys have read that work of   Antoine Borrut ?
     
    https://history.umd.edu/users/aborrut

    I read it.


     So dear Altara .,   what is your opinion on that publication ??., it seems to me basically you agree with.,    ...........that much of the (NOT ALL)Quran and early Islam all the way to the end  Umayyad dynasty  ((~661–750 CE)) is nothing but chit-chat and infighting with-in Christian sects  anywhere between Syria and so-called mundi Mecca .. Petra..........??

    correct me if did not get that point from your many posts ...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7142 - July 18, 2019, 01:37 PM

    Because I have no time for this. You should read it an make an opinion by yourself.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7143 - July 18, 2019, 02:37 PM

    Altara,

    With that attitude we won't advance much in the discussions. You don't seem to want to share what you know or think. Isn't that lonely? Or maybe you have different platforms where you do share.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7144 - July 18, 2019, 05:09 PM

    what is cooking here??

    Quote
    So dear Altara .,   what is your opinion on that publication ??., it seems to me basically you agree with.,    ...........that much of the (NOT ALL)Quran and early Islam all the way to the end  Umayyad dynasty  ((~661–750 CE)) is nothing but chit-chat and infighting with-in Christian sects  anywhere between Syria and so-called mundi Mecca .. Petra..........??

    correct me if did not get that point from your many posts ...

    Because I have no time for this. You should read it an make an opinion by yourself.

     
    Altara,

    With that attitude we won't advance much in the discussions. You don't seem to want to share what you know or think. Isn't that lonely? Or maybe you have different platforms where you do share.


    Hi Altara  .,  well i could have read my self but that publication  of  Antoine Borrut  IS FRIED IN FRENCH.,  and i am not trained or familiar eating french fried  publications.,   ...lol...  that was the problem dear Altara.,    but the other question was for you., let me highlight that again.....

    ******************************************************************************************
    it seems to me basically you agree with.,    ...........that much of the (NOT ALL)Quran and early Islam all the way to the end  Umayyad dynasty  ((~661–750 CE)) is nothing but chit-chat and infighting with-in Christian sects  anywhere between Syria and so-called mundi Mecca .. Petra..........??


    correct me if did not get that point from your many posts .  ...............
    *****************************************************************************************..

    but if you are short of time do bot worry about it..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7145 - July 18, 2019, 05:17 PM

    Altara,

    .............You don't seem to want to share what you know or think. Isn't that lonely? Or maybe you have different platforms where you do share...............


      no..no... well Altara trying to publish something So he doesn't  want to answer some critical points that may harm his publication/book..

    but here is good link for you  ..  it is like a story of early islam,,,   https://attwiw.com/islamic-history-series-2/

    And that link has 30 individual chapters..  and in that  Part 16 Islamic History, Part 16: the Caliphate of Abd al-Malik (685-705)   may be relevant as it deals with Caliphate of Abd al-Malik (685-705)  regime..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7146 - July 18, 2019, 06:15 PM

    Cheesy  Altara  says READ..READ... mundi says  no..noooo.. summarize..summarize
    well that is funny...

    hi mundi. i too say read..read..   here is the link for 40 volumes......40 volumes ..... lol

    History of Abū Jaʿfar Muḥammad ibn Jarīr al-Ṭabarī (224–310 AH; 839–923 AD)

    mundi .. read one by one.. ALL VOLUMES ...  literature  of Islam on  on religious, political. economical  ideas is like NEVER ENDING "....RUN  IN CIRCLES ..."  project without moving an inch forward


    Good move Yeez. Hope Mundi will read (and make his own opinion...)
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7147 - July 18, 2019, 08:43 PM

    Good move Yeez. Hope Mundi will read (and make his own opinion...)

    Nooo.. i was just kidding.. no one will read 40 volumes of that  Al-Ṭabarī .,  why read those 40 books .. reading Quran is good enough...

    anyway let me add this interesting book of Paul J. Alexander to the folder.


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7148 - July 18, 2019, 08:55 PM

    Hope Mundi will read  about the period to which I alluded (yawn...) 680-700
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7149 - July 19, 2019, 11:40 AM

    Altara,
    Quote
    Hope Mundi will read  about the period to which I alluded (yawn...) 680-700


    Don't need to. Dan Gibson did that for me! Cheesy

    I guess you both have the same sources.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7150 - July 19, 2019, 12:45 PM

    Altara,
    Don't need to. Dan Gibson did that for me! Cheesy
     

    Damn you mundi., I should be careful of what I say to you.,  Powerful people are doing things for you., And Dan Gibson has done and doing lot of things for you., How Much are you paying?  Ask  him to change that name "Petra" to  "mundi Mecca"   Cheesy

    but it is really fascinating to think about the amount of hard work that has been done by   al-Ṭabarī to write those 40 volumes .. interesting to note is his name the middle  "Abū Jaʿfar Muḥammad ibn Jarīr al-Ṭabarī"

    what does it tell us dear mundi?? and  imagine  reading and writing  volumes of books  with these kerosene lamps



    incidentally i used to read under those lamps.. lol.. I still have one

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7151 - July 19, 2019, 12:59 PM

    Altara,
    Don't need to. Dan Gibson did that for me! Cheesy

    I guess you both have the same sources.


    Well, scholarly speaking I prefer you read Tabari than Gibson about Mecca between 680-700. I'm not so sure that it is the field on which Gibson works. Am I right?  Cheesy
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7152 - July 19, 2019, 03:22 PM

    Gibson:

    At least he explains and summarizes what he thinks. He always quotes Tabarri. I always thought Tabarri was fiction. Apparently the source of all wisdom is in there according to you, Altara...

    Petrol lamps: I know the type. In Tabaris time, even less sophistication, I'm sure. It is amazing how the ancients did all this writing and reading. You have a point about the volume of Tabaris work. What does it tell us?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7153 - July 19, 2019, 07:34 PM

    ................I always thought Tabarri was fiction. ......Apparently the source of all wisdom is in there according to you, Altara...

     Cheesy Cheesy 

    Quote
    Petrol lamps: I know the type. In Tabaris time, even less sophistication, I'm sure. It is amazing how the ancients did all this writing and reading. You have a point about the volume of Tabaris work. What does it tell us?

    well  now mundi is after me.. you want me tell you what "Abū Jaʿfar Muḥammad ibn Jarīr al-Ṭabarī tells us??  well first thing it tells us is. HE IS "MUHAMMAD" OF HIS TIME IN WRITING "

    that needs big answer   and i need  lot more time to tell you what he wrote in those 40 volumes  dear mundi.,

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7154 - July 19, 2019, 08:11 PM

    Yeez,

    Try summarizing. You can do it! You have 20 lines. If longer you get an F. Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7155 - July 19, 2019, 08:16 PM

    Gibson:

     I always thought Tabarri was fiction. Apparently the source of all wisdom is in there according to you, Altara...


    Read what Tabari says about Mecca 680-700. Yeez has given the link. That it be fiction has no importance. You'll see it.




    Quote
    What does it tell us?


    Read it  great


  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7156 - July 20, 2019, 09:54 AM

    Quote
    Read what Tabari says about Mecca 680-700. Yeez has given the link. That it be fiction has no importance. You'll see it.

    Read it  great



    Nooooooooooo.........................   you can give F or 3Fs  to mundi ... no reading ..lol...

     Forget reading  "that   war story between Zubayr and Abd al Malik."......,    I bet...............  I bet.,     mundi will not be able to find out which  volume of Tabari work has that story  ... Cheesy Cheesy

     

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7157 - July 20, 2019, 11:09 AM

    Thanks Yeez for your understanding! Altara, give me the link to the pages I must read. Please, please, please, help me.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7158 - July 20, 2019, 11:52 AM

    Thanks Yeez for your understanding! Altara, give me the link to the pages I must read. Please, please, please, help me.

    i was just kidding mundi... 

    https://archive.org/details/TabariEnglish/page/n5

    just go through that link...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7159 - July 20, 2019, 05:24 PM

    well....
    Quote
    Thanks Yeez for your understanding!

     
     
    i was just kidding mundi... 

    https://archive.org/details/TabariEnglish/page/n5

    just go through that link...


    well I guess I failed mundi and mundi failed me..,  Cheesy

     That is life ...........failure are important part of every life form and they are also stepping stones for  success for every life form ., Human are no exceptions to that rule ....

    but mundi said to Altara
    Quote
    Altara, give me the link to the pages I must read. Please, please, please, help me.

    That is very harsh dear Altara...  So let me scribble something for mundi... to start with let me give some pdf file references with a little note what they wrote in those files..  rest you must read the following files ..lol...   First one must note this about  Muhammad b. Jarir al-Tabari  in these  volumes ., his life time spans between  the years  ; 839–923 AD  (224–310 AH) he was Iranian scholar, and  historian and came from   Amol, Tabaristan ., the present  Mazandaran Province of Iran

    In those 40 volumes  that are translated in to English they come from  THE HISTORY OF PROPHETS AND KINGS (Ta'rikh al-rusul wa'lmuluk) by Abu Ja`far Muhammad b. Jarir al-Tabari (839-923),
    Quote
    This History of al-Tabari, is by common consent the most important universal history produced in the world of Islam. It has been translated here in its entirety for the first time for the benefit of non-Arabists, with historical and philological notes for those interested in the particulars of the text.

    Tabari's monumental work explores the history of the ancient nations, with special emphasis on biblical peoples and prophets, the legendary and factual history of ancient Iran, and, in great detail, the rise of Islam, the life of the Prophet Muhammad, and the history of the Islamic world down to the year 915.

    1.)  The  History of al-Tabari_ volume 21.,  The Victory of the Marwdnids   A.D. 685-693/A.H. 66-73.PDF  ., 

    Now in that 21st volume ., it deals with most important part of early Islamic history .. It is all about Shia -Sunni split/conflicts/civil war/s with in Islamic world of that time  So to know more on that  war story between Zubayr and Abd al Malik.".  please go through that contents of that volume 21 on page10   and then start reading .. Cheesy  ..

    DO NOT BELIEVE IN WHAT I  SAY OR WHAT ALTARA SAYS OR WHAT GIBSON SAID OR SAYS  or anyone says anywhere on the Internet..

    So here are some more pdf files that deal  with that story.,   and please realize all these modern publications have origins in Tabari or other resources of that time and with a bit of common sense which we all have..

    Quote
    2. Islamic History, Part 16: the Caliphate of Abd al-Malik (685-705)

    3.  Abd Allah Ibn Al-Zubayr and His Career as Caliph ... The Journal of Rotterdam Islamic and Social Scienc.,  Vol 9 No 1 (2018):

    4. Abd Allāh ibn al-Zubayr and the Mahdī: Between propaganda and historical memory in the Second Civil War* by  Mehdy Shaddel.,  Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies 80, 2017, pp. 1-19
     
    5. Islam: The Umayyad Caliphate (661 - 750 CE)  from Jewish virtual library.org


    So dear mundi go though those links ..  and also .. casually read through the links below and from there  we will discuss further

    1. A HANDLIST OF THE Arabic Manuscripts   a pdf file from ARTHUR J. ARBERRY

    2. The Mahdi Claimants within Islam  from al-islam.org..

    3. Mahadi Tradition In Islam.. pdf file

    4.  A STORY OF ISLAM FROM A TURKEY_......The Journey of Caliphate from 632 to 1924.pdf .. 

    turkeys  have big body and little brain...


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7160 - July 20, 2019, 07:41 PM

     And vol 20 before.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7161 - July 21, 2019, 01:58 PM

    And vol 20 before.

    yes.. yes...  even  vol 19 before  is equally important..  let me put the links

    The Collapse of Sufyanid Authority and the Coming of the Marwanids ..  Volume_20.pdf

    The Caliphate of Yazid b. Mutawiyah ..  Volume_19.pdf

    but  me.... Nope no reading gibberish  ..  I  prefer reading Quran.. Quran.. The word of Allah GOD...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7162 - July 22, 2019, 07:04 PM

    Good. Mundi reads Gibson. I think he can (really) read  Tabari in English  Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7163 - July 22, 2019, 09:20 PM

    Good. Mundi reads Gibson. I think he can (really) read  Tabari in English  Wink

    Quote
    .............Islam was founded in northern Arabia in the city of Petra. It was there that the first parts of the Qur’an were revealed before the faithful were forced to flee to Medina. Thus, the prophet Muhammad never visited Mecca, nor did any of the first four rightly guided caliphs. Mecca was never a center of worship in ancient times, and was not part of the ancient trade routes in Arabia.

    All down through history the Arabs made pilgrimages to the holy sites in the city of Petra, which had many ancient temples and churches. It was in Petra that 350 idols were retrieved from the rubble after an earthquake and set up in a central courtyard. It was in Petra that Muhammad directed the destruction of all the idols except one, the Black Stone.  This stone remained in the Ka’ba in Petra until it was later taken by the followers of Ibn al-Zubayr deep into Arabia to the village of Mecca for safe keeping from the Ummayad armies. And today it is to this stone that Muslims face, rather than to their holy city and the qibla that Muhammad gave them..................

      ...... that is from Dan Gibson's Qur’anic Geography.  

    I bet a Canadian dime "THAT DAN GIBSON NEVER READ QURAN"  so he writing  Quranic geography is a kind of pointless..    Cheesy  neither mundi read Quran  lol..... .. many folks read one or two verses here and there and try to write publications and books on them ......  that is unfortunate

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7164 - July 22, 2019, 11:48 PM

     Believe me I have read the Quran carefully. The more I read it, the more I softly smiled ; who were the clever guys who had wrote this so crafted text?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7165 - July 23, 2019, 02:13 AM

    ............The more I read it, the more I softly smiled ; who were the clever guys who had wrote this so crafted text? ..................

    i  agree with that original Quran writers must be very smart guys to put a large amount of text  with the existing religious literature/stories of that time without saying anything new  yet  it looks imposing and sweet and simple to the listeners.,  but that is only  true  to the so-called Meccan revelations .,  Some one added quite bit of junk in to it at later times...

    anyway going back to Gibson and his theories of early Islam., i wonder whether  Gibson read this  work of   Hermann Goetz published in 1974...  in  East and West Vol. 24, No. 3/4 (September-December 1974), pp. 245-248    at   https://www.jstor.org/stable/29756004?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7166 - July 23, 2019, 06:38 PM

    Surah 17 (Mohammed's night journey)

    Interesting article from Beck. I found the references to monophysite arabia interesting and enlightening.


    https://www.academia.edu/17318352/Mu%E1%B8%A5ammad_s_Night_Journey_in_its_Palestinian_Context_a_Perfect_Solution_to_a_Forgotten_Problem_Q_17_1_
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7167 - July 23, 2019, 07:23 PM

    Nestorians and Monophysites constitute Christianity in the East, and the last, Arabic Christianity in the West, less in the East.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7168 - July 23, 2019, 07:37 PM

    Quote
    Nestorians and Monophysites constitute Christianity in the East, and the last, Arabic Christianity in the West, less in the East.


     Huh?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7169 - July 24, 2019, 08:39 AM

    Some interesting points with Jay Smith (I can put it there as, Maghraye seems to have disappeared from this place  Wink  (with some mistakes of course... Arabs never called themselves "Saracens", etc)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PkTARiJ4Ss
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