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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6660 - May 10, 2019, 02:26 PM
    literate (adj.)

    "educated, instructed, having knowledge of letters," early 15c., from Latin literatus/litteratus "educated, learned, who knows the letters;" formed in imitation of Greek grammatikos from Latin littera/litera "alphabetic letter" (see letter (n.1)). By late 18c. especially "acquainted with literature." As a noun, "one who can read and write," 1894.

    literati (n.)

    "men and women of letters; the learned class as a whole," 1620s, noun use of Latin literati/litterati, plural of literatus/litteratus "educated, learned" (see literate). The proper singular would be literatus (fem. literata), though Italian literato sometimes is used in English.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6661 - May 10, 2019, 03:36 PM
    Literati:

    Your definition is like mine and doesnt have the extra sense of "insider". Literati is to neutral for what we have here: the promotors of early islam.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6662 - May 10, 2019, 03:45 PM
    It is perfectly adapted. The distinction you make does not exist in any scholarship literature, nor in contemporary texts; there's no insiders or outsiders as pseudepigraphy is the general ways of writing in Antiquity.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6663 - May 10, 2019, 05:47 PM
    The council of Trullo (692) forbids clerics or monks to participate  in secret societies.
    See canon 43 https://goodguyswearblack.org/2013/04/12/on-clergy-secret-societies/

    If it needed to be forbidden, it was a problem or at least existed.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6664 - May 10, 2019, 08:07 PM
    Do these clerics or monks  in secret societies have a name as such? Nope.  Are they, one way or another, literati? For the most part, yes.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6665 - May 11, 2019, 01:38 PM
    Quote from: Altara on May 10, 2019, 08:07 PM
    Do these clerics or monks  in secret societies have a name as such? Nope.  ........... another, literati? .............For the most part, yes.

    Yap... they did and during those times in 6th and 7th centuries .. many of the followers of these leading preachers  used a tag to their original name   and that tag was "Muhammad"..  well some of them also  acted as  literati Muhammads and warrior Muhammads  and song sonnet singing Muhammads...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6666 - May 11, 2019, 01:40 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on May 09, 2019, 07:52 PM
    She retracted.


    you know what Mahgraye.. I am going to open a folder on her and her contributions to educate READERS LIKE ALTARA  on early Islam ..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6667 - May 11, 2019, 02:02 PM
    Quote
    you know what Mahgraye.. I am going to open a folder on her and her contributions to educate READERS LIKE ALTARA  on early Islam ..


     thnkyu
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6668 - May 11, 2019, 02:19 PM
    Parker's paper is need of a proper rebuttal (not a refutation, rebuttal), haha. Await on academia.edu, haha. [with all due respect, of course]
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6669 - May 11, 2019, 05:54 PM
    Simon Brelaud

    Abstract - As the evangelization of nomadic populations appears to have occurred later than the history of the East Syrians, we assume that it goes hand in hand with the process of the constitution of the Church of the East. Looking closer, we can find quite early signs of Christianity among the Arabs regarding the chronology of Christianity in Sasanian Empire. The topic raises three main questions: the connections of the Arab tribes and their circulations during Late Antiquity, the Christianization of the nomadic populations and the link between Christianity and loyalty to the Roman Empire which is a sore point in the Persian Empire. Al-Ḥīra (Ḥirta in Syriac) was the capital of an ally and a principality independent from the Persians, known as the “Laḫmid” kingdom: regarding the Ecclesiastical hierarchy, it was part of the Church of the East. It was the main target of an original policy of the patriarch of the Church of Persia (called catholicos since the 5th century) aimed at the nomadic populations at the edge of the Empire extending to al-Anbar and the Jazīra.
    (yawn...)
    yawn is mine (yawn...)
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6670 - May 11, 2019, 08:57 PM
    Quote from: Altara on May 11, 2019, 05:54 PM
    ................Simon Brelaud............
    ...........Christianization ....................
    (yawn...)
    yawn is mine (yawn...)


     what is wrong with that...  he is following his Ph. D., thesis supervisor..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJI27Be4Pso

    and Yes Arab Christians and Arab Jews ((I am actually not sure who Arabs were and  how to  define the boundaries   at that time ))  moved in to Islam during early Islamic period  and those who converted in to Islam wrote stories and blamed idolaters Christians and Jews that did not convert

    Power corrupts




    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6671 - May 11, 2019, 09:58 PM
    (yawn...) is not necessarily bad Wink
    Arab Jews are in Yemen, nowhere else...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6672 - May 12, 2019, 07:31 PM
    Quote from: Altara on May 11, 2019, 09:58 PM
    (yawn...) is not necessarily bad Wink

     Cheesy   Altara...Altara ...off course  "yawn" and "yawning"  not a bad thing but it loses its value if one uses  at everything and everyone in every post   ...

    So whom are you yawning now?   at  Simon Brelaud?  or at  Francoise  Chatonnet?  or at my response??

    Quote
    Arab Jews are in Yemen, nowhere else...


    didn't  get that word.,  you mean to say Now they are in Yemen? or it is mistype.,  that they WERE  in Yemen during 6th and seventh century??   
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6673 - May 12, 2019, 09:32 PM
    Quote
    Altara...Altara ...off course  "yawn" and "yawning"  not a bad thing but it loses its value if one uses  at everything and everyone in every post   ...


    "yawn" is a kind of alert, it can be good, bad, interesting or indicating (sometimes...) that I'm fed up to read certain things: it depends...

    Quote
    So whom are you yawning now?   at  Simon Brelaud?  or at  Francoise  Chatonnet?  or at my response??


    Both are interesting (yawn...) Wink

    Quote
    didn't  get that word.,  you mean to say Now they are in Yemen? or it is mistype.,  that they WERE  in Yemen during 6th and seventh century??  

     
    Arab Jews are in Yemen, nowhere else... at that time! They are not ethnic Jews for the most part, but they were Jews and went to Jerusalem to be buried. Interestingly Rabbanites scriptures never spoke about them... at that time!
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6674 - May 12, 2019, 11:26 PM
    Quote
    Arab Jews are in Yemen, nowhere else...


    Does this have implications for the so-called Jews of Madinah?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6675 - May 13, 2019, 09:20 AM
    Quote from: Altara on May 12, 2019, 09:32 PM
    "yawn" is a kind of alert, it can be good, bad, interesting or indicating (sometimes...) that I'm fed up to read certain things: it depends...

    Both are interesting (yawn...) Wink

    well  you know lot about "YAWNS"  dear Altara.,  whereas  i only know "yawning"  and it happens quite often when i am tired...
     
    Quote
    Arab Jews are were in Yemen, nowhere else... at that time! They are not ethnic Jews for the most part, but they were Jews and went to Jerusalem to be buried. Interestingly Rabbanites scriptures never spoke about them... at that time!

    what is that thing ?  Jewish history of 101  from Altara??  or are you writing  cryptic post??  or are you starting "history of Jews" from 10th century ??

     i  am  sure you know.,  that word  Rabbanites is a general term  that is used in Jewish and Islamic sources from approximately the tenth century..

    Do you  mean to say there were no Jewish sects  in the lands that you  see in green color  specially around  middle east before 6th  century  except in the present Yemen??



    there were only in Yemen at that time??      and what time was that?  what year??Arab Jews are WERE in Yemen and  nowhere else..??. at that time!??

    well  then we need to learn about Moroccan Jews,,,  Egyptian Jews. Persian Jews,, Jews jews...Yemen Jews.. Arabian Jews..Ukraine Jews  ..  Muslim Jews..  Roman Jews .. Chrisian Jews.. Pagan Jews..and what not .     Well Fall of Jewish Jews and rise of Muslim Jews...

    Quote from: Mahgraye on May 12, 2019, 11:26 PM
    Does this have implications for the so-called Jews of Madinah?

      good question Mahgraye  .. corner the cat...lol...  well there was NO Madinah "At  That Time"
    let me read this     https://www.ias.edu/ideas/2011/bowersock-jewish-arabia
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6676 - May 13, 2019, 11:22 AM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on May 12, 2019, 11:26 PM
    Does this have implications for the so-called Jews of Madinah?

    Nope, as the Jews  (as such or in the Yemeni case in the south of the peninsula) were everywhere in the Orient. Regarding the narrative, the presence of Jews (ethnic or not) in Yathrib seems to me dubious. That the Rabbanites did not know the Yemeni is understandable, but those of Yathrib are nearest from where they are installed.
    On the other hand, its seems to me also dubious that the Yemeni Jews would have installed Jews in Yathrib. For what purpose? Is Yathrib (at that time) is a key place of commerce for Yemeni? Whereas one knows that the naval commerce has the monopoly because it is very less expansive than caravans.  Yemeni lack harbours? Really?...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6677 - May 14, 2019, 08:49 AM
    I have heard The Constitution of Medina is very old. Is there any archeological evidence for an early presence of Jews  in Medina?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6678 - May 14, 2019, 09:23 AM
    Inscriptions in northern hijaz.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6679 - May 14, 2019, 10:17 AM
    There is no Jewish inscription in "northern Hijaz". If there was no  9th c.narrative, none scholar would have indicate that it might be "Jewish".
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6680 - May 14, 2019, 12:18 PM
    Quote
    There is no Jewish inscription in "northern Hijaz". If there was no  9th c.narrative, none scholar would have indicate that it might be "Jewish".


    I thought there are Jewish inscriptions in Hegra. Inscriptions in Aramaic/Nabatean naming a person Jewish. But that seems to be the southern limit.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6681 - May 14, 2019, 02:00 PM
    Quote
    Quote from: Altara on May 14, 2019, 10:17 AM
    ......................Jewish inscription i...............

    Quote from: mundi on May 14, 2019, 12:18 PM
    ............. Jewish inscriptions in Hegra. Inscriptions in Aramaic/Nabatean naming a person Jewish....................


     
    hmm  that is an interesting point..  "Jewish inscription"....  What do we know about them?  what place??  what era? what year?  and what language?? Any inscriptions in Hebrew??

    Well mundi you are the right person  for telling the readers here

    well let us get some links starting from wiki

    Quote
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Hebrew_writings
    http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/inscriptions/index.html
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/ancient-inscription-points-to-jewish-past-for-early-christian-site/
    http://cds.library.brown.edu/projects/Inscriptions/resources/HentenHuitinkInscriptions.pdf


    that is a good stuff to explore..Jewish inscriptions in Arabic.... Jewish inscriptions in Persian  .Jewish inscriptions in Aramaic... .. Jewish inscriptions in Latin or greek...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6682 - May 14, 2019, 09:19 PM
    GENEVIÈVE GOBILLOT LES FONDEMENTS CORANIQUES DU DIALOGUE INTERRELIGIEUX AUTOUR DE LA PERSONNE DE JÉSUS
    THE KORANIC FOUNDATIONS OF INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE AROUND THE PERSON OF JESUS

    Islamochristiana 44, 2018

    https://www.deepl.com/translator is your friend. (yawn...)

    https://www.academia.edu/39129459/GENEVI%C3%88VE_GOBILLOT_LES_FONDEMENTS_CORANIQUES_DU_DIALOGUE_INTERRELIGIEUX_AUTOUR_DE_LA_PERSONNE_DE_J%C3%89SUS
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6683 - May 14, 2019, 10:01 PM
    Yet another scholar, this time, Gobillot, argues that the mušrikûn are not actual polytheists, but rather, Christians.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6684 - May 15, 2019, 09:27 PM

    https://www.deepl.com/translator     is your friend. (yawn...)


    Geneviève Gobillot :

    Jesus, eternally "risen alive" on Sunday 19 Nisan of the divine calendar

    https://www.academia.edu/39134128/J%C3%A9sus_%C3%A9ternellement_ressuscit%C3%A9_vivant_le_dimanche_19_Nis%C3%A2n_du_calendrier_divin

    Sacred history and geography in the Koran The example of Sodom

    https://www.academia.edu/39131218/Histoire_et_g%C3%A9ographie_sacr%C3%A9es_dans_le_Coran_L_exemple_de_Sodome
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6685 - May 16, 2019, 09:43 AM
     
    Quote from: Altara on May 15, 2019, 09:27 PM

    https://www.deepl.com/translator     is your friend. (yawn...)


    Geneviève Gobillot :

    Jesus, eternally "risen alive" on Sunday 19 Nisan of the divine calendar

    https://www.academia.edu/39134128/J%C3%A9sus_%C3%A9ternellement_ressuscit%C3%A9_vivant_le_dimanche_19_Nis%C3%A2n_du_calendrier_divin

    Sacred history and geography in the Koran The example of Sodom

    https://www.academia.edu/39131218/Histoire_et_g%C3%A9ographie_sacr%C3%A9es_dans_le_Coran_L_exemple_de_Sodome

    plenty of fools  are there  as scholars in western universities  who  know very little about political  dimensions of  so-called religious books.,  and in 21st century Quran takes  the cake because of the oil based economies... 

    She is better of writing children stories from Quran  instead of writing Quran verses as historical truth of bible stories..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMqBvNf2ggo

     
    Quote
    Gobillot is a French scholar of Islam, Muslim civilization professor at the Jean Moulin University Lyon 3 since 1993, a specialist in Islamic mysticism, Shi'ism and Sufism, particularly in Al-Hakim al-Tirmidhi, author of the 10th century. Her work also includes the intercultural and intertextual reading of the Qur'an in the context of a rapprochement between monotheisms.


    oh well  let  me read this

    POLITICS OF SCRIPTURE:  DISCUSSIONS OF THE HISTORICAL-CRITICAL APPROACH TO THE QUR'ĀN By  Rahel Fischbach, M.A.   2016.,  A Dissertation  submitted to the Faculty of the  Graduate School of Arts and Sciences of Georgetown University  for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in Theology
     
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6686 - May 16, 2019, 09:56 AM
    Gobillot is a fool who should write children's books?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6687 - May 16, 2019, 11:03 AM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on May 16, 2019, 09:56 AM
    Gobillot is a fool who should write children's books?

    dear  Mahgraye  those are your words from my post .. let me re-post  what I said with two individual statements
    Quote from: yeezevee on May 16, 2019, 09:43 AM
    1.  plenty of fools  are there  as scholars in western universities  who  know very little about political  dimensions of  so-called religious books.,  and in 21st century Quran takes  the cake because of the oil based economies... 

    2.  She is better of writing children stories from Quran  instead of writing Quran verses as historical truth of bible stories..  .........


    if you put two statements together  and if you think I said 
    Quote
    ....Gobillot is a fool who should write children's books....

      that is fine with me ..

    Now in my bread and butter career  where I  published more than 100 peer reviewed publications and reviewed many many  publications .((.still do))   I have seen plenty of intelligent folks writing STUPID PUBLICATIONS...   As far as that retired professor  Gobillot  is concerned ;; I HAVE NOT READ  ALL OF HER WORK and i only scanned through  the publications from Altara post  through translator.. Please read them ..

    Those two papers  are not exploring the facts of history but exploring stories of faith from faith heads  and converting them as real historical facts  .. So yes such stories are better for Children book or Harry Potter movies...

    with best regards
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6688 - May 16, 2019, 12:50 PM
    Macdonalds on Arabia:

    https://www.academia.edu/4593009/Arabians_Arabias_and_the_Greeks_Contact_and_Perceptions


    This is a paper about the facts!
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6689 - May 16, 2019, 02:50 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on May 16, 2019, 11:03 AM
    Now in my bread and butter career  where I  published more than 100 peer reviewed publications and reviewed many many  publications .((.still do))
    with best regards
    yeezevee


    Elaborate...
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