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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5280 - February 12, 2019, 10:02 PM


    Because you do not get the methodology I use  for this specific topic of the origins of Islam.


    No, Sebeos never said that the Jews taught the Arabs that they are the sons of Ishamel ; he only wrote that those Jews asked for help by highlighting their common lineage through Abraham.

    Quote
    That the Jews were with the Persians in 614 so what? Did they try to rebuild the Temple when they were in charge of the city? No attestation.


    There is one quoted in Le grand secret de l'islam, so I guess Gallez also quote it, but inaccurately ascribed it to the time of Muhammad while in fact it was during the persian capture of Jerusalem. This is the one that talk about a leader killed after 3 months. I don't remember the name of the source, sorry.

    Quote
    You say : 1/we see Jews marching with the Arab troops
    "We"? What "we"? Gallez and you, from Sebeos  ; other sources attest nothing like that.  Unless I missed something (which is of course perfectly possible...)
    One historical affirmation is not enough (for me).


    Read the Doctrina Jacobbi.

    Quote
    since your consider that they are responsible of the Arab attack in the 630's?


    No I never said that. You get one idea in your head and you go forward despite what is written.



     
     
    Quote
    Except that they do not need the Jews to build a place of prayer, as they are already  sons of Ishmael since ages.


    But they need something more to do it in Jerusalem. Sebeos gives an explanation, the Quran doesn't.


    Quote
    to  understand that Ishmael (The Arabs ) is equally entitled to re build the "House" where it always was : the Temple Mount.


    Sorry but the house built in the Quran by Abraham and Ishamel isn't in Jerusalem, except if Isaac was replaced by Ishmael from the original text.




    Quote
    But the probability that this very specific Quranic word is not invented by a commander in Egypt  is much larger than he has invented it as you seem to state it because you have no other rationale explication of the presence of this word. The Quranic "basmala" is also used in the same papyri. This is exactly the same thing.


    You might be right. Who knows.


    Quote
    You do not respond : who has built the mosques whereas people recite poems?
    The Jews?


    Building a place of prayer is something common in all religions.

    Quote
    This has no values as you still not gives any  references.(bis)


    I did already but you didn't seem to have noticed so let me give them again Smiley

    See paragraph 38
    http://www.theologica.fr/!_Pg_Patristique_Theologiens&OrdresMonastiques_1/ALBOCICADE%20%20Les%20cigales%20Eloquentes/Anastase-le-moine-pdf.pdf

    Quote
    M.P. PENN
    JOHN AND THE EMIR A NEW INTRODUCTION, EDITION AND TRANSLATION*
    Le Muséon 121 (1-2), 65-91. doi: 10.2143/MUS.121.1.2120502 - Tous droits réservés. © Le Muséon, 2008.


    I readi it (I gave it as  source earlier ) but I don't understand your point here.


     
    Quote
    What means "pagans" in Christian writings at that time?


    It may have had 2 different meanings.



  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5281 - February 12, 2019, 10:04 PM

    ................ For instance, Walter's paper also uses a scientific method from mathematics to reach the opposite of Sadeghi's conclusion.  .........

    well that tells me how good they are in using statistics and  collecting statistical information from Quran verses to come to opposite conclusions on same issue ..

    in fact I say Quran is a very very unique book ..  the AUTHORS collected stories for OT &NT and rehashed  them in to a book  to reinforce faith ., And those verses that are NOT related to OT & NT stories ((Which are  not many)) are common polemic statements that will fit in to any medieval story books..

    So in short., that     Syntactic Stylometry     is NOT useful analyzing a medieval book like Quran

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5282 - February 12, 2019, 10:19 PM

    ...............Sebeos

    ....Doctrina Jacobbi.


    Hi...  Marc.,    did you read them  and do you suggest any links n Islam and Sebeos

    ....Islam & Doctrina Jacobbi ?

    .....

    Quote
      http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?p=210036#p210036

    (Doctrina Jacobi V.16, 209. [p. 57]
    When the candidatus was killed by the Saracens, I was at Caesarea and I set off by boat to Sykamina. People were saying "the candidatus has been killed," and we Jews were overjoyed. And they were saying that the prophet had appeared, coming with the Saracens, and that he was proclaiming the advent of the anointed one, the Christ who was to come. I, having arrived at Sykamina, stopped by a certain old man well-versed in scriptures, and I said to him: "What can you tell me about the prophet who has appeared with the Saracens?" He replied, groaning deeply: "He is false, for the prophets do not come armed with a sword. Truly they are works of anarchy being committed today and I fear that the first Christ to come, whom the Christians worship, was the one sent by God and we instead are preparing to receive the Antichrist. Indeed, Isaiah said that the Jews would retain a perverted and hardened heart until all the earth should be devastated. But you go, master Abraham, and find out about the prophet who has appeared." So I, Abraham, inquired and heard from those who had met him that there was no truth to be found in the so-called prophet, only the shedding of men's blood. He says also that he has the keys of paradise, which is incredible. 


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5283 - February 13, 2019, 07:16 AM

    Altara,

    Not everyone reads French here, so I am asking you specifically. What do you think of the Dye-Kropp article on the name Isa?

    https://www.academia.edu/1395500/Guillaume_Dye_and_Manfred_Kropp_Le_nom_de_J%C3%A9sus_%C3%8Es%C3%A2_dans_le_Coran_et_quelques_autres_noms_bibliques_remarques_sur_lonomastique_coranique_dans_Guillaume_Dye_and_Fabien_Nobilio_%C3%A9ds_Figures_bibliques_en_islam_pp._171-198

    Reading the last pages is sufficient. Their proposal is that Isa is coming from the oral speech of the South Palestinian Arabs. Inscriptions found by Nevo using Isa supports the theory. What do you think?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5284 - February 13, 2019, 09:38 AM

    Quote
    Altara,

    Not everyone reads French here, so I am asking you specifically. What do you think of the Dye-Kropp article on the name Isa?

    .................


    hi  mundy.,  many of you guys who are active in this folder seems to  be French Speakers..  I wonder anyone translated this work on that Doctrina Jacobbi.

    let me also add     Sean Anthony  paper here

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5285 - February 13, 2019, 11:14 AM

    Yeez,

    Thanks for the links. These early 20 C scholars were just amazing!
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5286 - February 13, 2019, 02:10 PM

    Quote
    Thanks for the links. These early 20 C scholars were just amazing!


    What scholars?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5287 - February 13, 2019, 03:37 PM

    Tommaso Tesei on Twitter:

    There is a curious tendency in current scholarship to acknowledge the relationship between the Qurʾān and Late Antiquity while simultaneously rejecting any direct connection between concepts, ideas, beliefs, and stories in the Qurʾān and those found in late antique texts.

    Common elements between the Qurʾān and the writings of the late antique world are mostly explained through recourse to the notion of “shared culture” without trying to explain the dynamics of this cultural sharing.

    This tendency, which I call “Qurʾānic exceptionalism,” leads scholars to dismiss, in the case of the Qurʾān, what would seem to be plausible to scholars in any other field of study.

    However noble its aims may be, “Qurʾānic exceptionalism” inhibits any critical analysis of the Qurʾān’s relationship with its historical context.

    You can read all of it here:https://twitter.com/teseitommaso/status/1095005369712164865
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5288 - February 13, 2019, 03:40 PM

    Mahgraye  asks  
    Quote
    What scholars?


    well  Mahgraye.,   mudi was talking   about early 19th early 20th century scholars .,......
     scholars that explored religious texts......,  and he is right .. They were indeed better than what we have in 1980s and afterwords  .. Many of these after 1980ners  (..Lol....)guys are Plagiarizers, copy/pastes and sand dorm shifters

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5289 - February 13, 2019, 03:49 PM


     Cheesy Cheesy  that is a good one...

    But  here  I am mad  I say if I had that OIL DOLLAR power then  I will  move all these scholars that are connected with that late dr. Patricia Crone  to Saudi Arabia .. So they will have 1000 lashes + DARK JAIL to live ..  finmad finmad finmad

    Viva My hero of Islam



    https://www.dawn.com/news/1463607/twin-cities-to-see-airspace-closure-partial-suspension-of-cellular-services-during-mbs-visit   ..Ass Hole ..


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5290 - February 13, 2019, 03:50 PM

    Quote
    But  here  I am mad  I say I must all these scholars that are connected with that late dr. Patricia Crone


    ?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5291 - February 13, 2019, 04:38 PM

    Quote
    well  Mahgraye.,   mudi was talking   about early 19th early 20th century scholars .,......
     scholars that explored religious texts......,


    I respect the modern scholars  very much (and appreciate their will to share) but reading a text from F. Lau from the beginning of 1902 when all these scholarly aides (computer to start with) where not available yet, always leaves me in a state of admiration. Great minds!

    referring to this link you posted yeez ( http://www.patristique.org/sites/patristique.org/IMG/pdf/po_40_viii_5.pdf)
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5292 - February 13, 2019, 06:32 PM

    I’m not sure what’s already been posted but here’s a review of Reynolds’ the Qur’an and the Bible
    (starts about halfway down)

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/01/28/how-to-read-the-good-books/amp
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5293 - February 13, 2019, 06:38 PM

    Peter Webb - Ethnicity, Power and Umayyad Society: The Rise and Fall of the People of Ma'add

    https://www.academia.edu/36053739/Ethnicity_Power_and_Umayyad_Society_The_Rise_and_Fall_of_the_People_of_Maadd
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5294 - February 13, 2019, 09:45 PM

    In the twitter thread of Tommaso Tesei, which I understand also yeezevee liked, I found this comment by Tesei:

    "I rather think of it as a process akin to how scholars evolved into apologists." This tweet was liked by Dye and Daniel A. Beck.

    I have also read Tom Holland complaining about scholars who do not dare to take unpleasant viewpoints or avoid to conclude.
    Robert Hoyland writes about scholars who are left leaning liberals and do not want to criticize Islam.

    Markus Gross. I think it was, wrote that scholars would have concluded like he did, if they had followed the standard scholarly prosedyre, when evaluating Islam.
    So it seems as scholars are treating Islam differently!
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5295 - February 14, 2019, 09:53 AM

    Altara,

    Not everyone reads French here, so I am asking you specifically. What do you think of the Dye-Kropp article on the name Isa?

    Reading the last pages is sufficient. Their proposal is that Isa is coming from the oral speech of the South Palestinian Arabs. Inscriptions found by Nevo using Isa supports the theory. What do you think?


    Interesting article. No better has been produced since this one. 
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5296 - February 14, 2019, 03:46 PM

    Van Putten would concur.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5297 - February 14, 2019, 03:51 PM

    ................article on the name Isa?

    https://www.academia.edu/1395500/Guillaume_Dye_and_Manfred_Kropp_Le_nom_de_J%C3%A9sus_%C3%8Es%C3%A2_dans_le_Coran_et_quelques_autres_noms_bibliques_remarques_sur_lonomastique_coranique_dans_Guillaume_Dye_and_Fabien_Nobilio_%C3%A9ds_Figures_bibliques_en_islam_pp._171-198

    Reading the last pages is sufficient. Their proposal is that Isa is coming from the oral speech of the South Palestinian Arabs. Inscriptions found by Nevo using Isa supports the theory. What do you think?

    I  wonder that is right word to describe people living in that area of that time??anyway  let me read these publications

     ARCHAEOLOGY AND THE HISTORY OF EARLY ISLAM:  THE FIRST SEVENTY YEARS  BY  JEREMY JOHNS* ... 2003

    CHRISTIAN-MUSLIM SYMBOLISM ON COINS OF THE EARLY ARAB EMPIRE (7 – 8th century CE) AN ATTEMPT AT A NEW APPROACH  by Marcin GRODZKI .,  Asian and African Studies, Volume 23, Number 2, 2014

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5298 - February 14, 2019, 07:02 PM

    Van Putten would concur.

     Hmm.,    Van Putten   ................. Marijn van Putten

    You think so dear  Mahgraye ?? what do you think about Christoph Luxenberg ??  would he  concur  with that idea??

    and how many theses authors also would concur  with that idea   Cheesy
    Here are some names of prominent scholars in the field of Islamic Studies who have published on the Koran, Hadith, etc. They belong to different methodological camps.

    Angelika Neuwirth, Nicolai Sinai, Michael Marx, Gregor Schoeler, Harald Motzki, Andreas Görke, Chase F. Robinson, Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, Gerald R. Hawting, John Wansbrough, Rudolph Sellheim, Sean Anthony, Christopher Melchert, Herbert Berg, Johann Fück, Nabia Abbot, Robert Hoyland, Jonathan Brockopp, Shahab Ahmed, Stephen Shoemaker, Fred Donner, Gabriel Said Reynolds, Jan van Reeth, Holger Zolondek, Gautier A. H. Juynboll, Ignaz Goldziher, Joseph Schacht,  Henri Lammens, Andrew Rippin, Ernst Renan, Norman Calder, Iftikhar Zaman, Arthur Jeffery, Lawrence Conrad, Aloys Sprenger, Marco Schöller, Tilman Nagel, Francis Peters, Stephen Humphreys, Behnam Sadeghi, James Montgomery, Uri Bergmann, Jonathan Brown, Ian Morris, Stefan Heidemann, Sebastian Günther, Carlos A. Segovia, Meir Kister, Uri Rubin, Montgomery Watt, Julius Wellhausen, M. M. Azami, Alfred Guillaume, Guillaume Dye, A. J. Arberry, Michael Lecker, Scott Lucas, François de Bois,  Jan Retsö, Omar Hamdan, William Muir, Amidu Olalekan Sanni, James Robson, Marston Speight, Kevin Reinhart, Eerik Dickinson, David Cook, Devin Stewart, Günter Lüling, John Burton, Peter Stein, George Makdisi, Wael Hallaq, Noel Coulson, Sebastian Günther, Stefan Leder, Talal Maloush, Stefan Wild, Thomas Bauer, David Margoliouth, M. C. Lyon, Leone Caetani, David Powers, Maher Jarrar, Mohammed Bamyeh, Sadun Mahmud Al-Samuk, Maxime Rodinson, Emran El-Badawi, Hossein Modarressi, Daniel Madigan, Paul Casanova, Alphonse Mingana, Lyall Armstrong, Intisar Rabb, Asma Sayeed, Najam Haider, Yasin Dutton, Amikam Elad, Sydney Griffith, Etan Kohlberg, Ella Landau-Tasseron, Hellmut Ritter, Pavel Pavlovitch, James Bellamy, Hans-Casper Graf von Bothmer, François Déroche, Adis Duderija, Asma Hilali, Hartwig Hirschfeld, Shady Hekmat Nasser, Johannes van Oort, Catherine Pennacchio, Mustafa Shah, W. St. Clair Tisdall, Estelle Whelan, Solehah binti Yaacob, Mohsen Goudarzi, Kamaruddin Amin, Carl Brockelmann, Mohammed Fadel, Sulaiman Jarallah, Ilkka Lindstedt, Ulrike Mitter, Halit Ozkan, Irene Schneider, A. J. Wensinck, Petra Sijpesteijin, J. M. B. Jones, Albrecht Noth, J. H. Kramers, Abraham Geiger, Theodor Nöldeke, Nicolet Boekhoff-van der Voort, Karl Vilhelm Zetterstéen, Christopher Toll, Tord Olsson, Jane Dammen McAuliffe, William A. Graham, Navid Kermani, Fred Leemhuis, Naṣr Abū Zayd, Camilla Adang, ʿAlī b. Ibrāhīm al-Ghabbān, Nebil Ahmed Husayn, Marijin van Putten, Ahmad Al-Jallad, Michael Bonner, Jonathan Owens, Martin F. J. Baasten, Régis Blachère, Richard Bell, Flügel, David Hollenberg, Seth A. Rosenthal, Miklos Muranyi, Mahdi ‘May’ Shaddel, Harald Suermann,  Han J. W. Drijvers, Gerrit J. Reinink, Pieter W. van der Horst, Suliman Bashear, Edmund Beck, Gotthelf Bergsträsser, Gerhard Böwering, David Cook, Martin Hinds, Gilbert Dagron, Vincent Déroche, Alfred-Louis de Prémare, Abd al-Aziz Duri, Reuven Firestone, Oleg Grabar, Marshall G. S. Hodgson, Raif Georges Khoury, Wilferd Madelung, Michael G. Morony, Suleiman Ali Mourad, Neal Robinson, Muḥammad Zubayr Ṣiddīqī, Rizwi S. Faizer, Saleh Said Agha, Hinrich Biesterfeldt, Wadad Kadi, Judith Herrin, Joseph Witztum, Hannah Cotton, Guy G. Stroumsa, Karen Bauer, David M. Eisenberg, Deborah G. Tor, Matthew S. Gordon, Kevin van Bladel, Maria Mavroudi, Fritz W. Zimmermann, Michael Cooperson, Margaret Larkin, Khaled El-Rouayheb, Chris Wickham, David J. Wasserstein, David Abulafia, Adam Silverstein, Bella Tendler Krieger, Werner Diem, Geoffrey Khan, Marie Legendre, Lucian Reinfandt, Irfan Shahid, Khalid Younes, Nancy Khalek, Maribel Fierro, Najam Haider, Adam Sabra, Jane Hathaway, Samer Traboulsi, Nurit Tsafrir, Nimrod Hurvitz, Justin Stearns, Asad Q. Ahmed, Leor Halevi, Carol Bakhos, Iwona Gajda, Norman Calder, Asma Sayeed, Hassan F. Ansari, Baber Johansen, Intisar A. Rabb, Khaled Abou El Fadl, Edmund Beck, M. M. Bravemann, Harris Birkeland, Toshihiko Izutsu, Averil Cameron, Garth Fowden, Frank Trombley, J. H. W. Liebeschuetz, Christian Decorbet, Fergus Millar, Robert Schick, J. F. Haldon, Hartmut Bobzin, Mikhail D. Bukharin, Islam Dayeh, Kirill Dmitriev, Barbara Finster, Agnes Imhof, Ernst Axel Knauf, Reimund Leicht, Norbert Nebes, Jan Retsö, Nora K. Schmid, Tilman Seidensticker, Peter Stein, Isabel Toral-Niehoff, Sergio Noja Noseda, Karl-Heinz Ohlig, Christoph Luxenburg, Markus Gross, Volker Popp, Hans Jansen, Muhammad Sven Kalisch, Yehuda Nevo, Judith Koren, Robert M. Kerr, Raymond Dequin, Uwe Friedrich Schmidt, Peter von Sivers, Christopher Plato, Gilles Courtieu, Johannes Thomas, Genevieve Gobillot, Mohammad Lamsiah, Jean-Jacques Walter, Gerd-Rüdiger Puin, Ibn Warraq, Norbert G. Pressburg, Robert Spencer, Hans-Jörg Döhla, Alba Fedeli, Marcin Grodzki, Geneviève Gobillot, Markus Stor, Claude Gilliot, Christoph Heger, Gilles Courtieu, Manfred S. Kropp, Robert M. Kerr, Pierre Larcher, Thomas Milo, Sergio Noja Noseda, Alfred-Louis de Prémare, Elisabeth Puin, Filippo Ranieri, Piotr O. Scholz, Mondher SFAR, Kieth Liten, Johannes Thomas,  Frank Van Reeth, Munther Younes, Mohammad Lamsiah, Édouard-Marie Gallez, Éléonore Cellard, Tayyar Altıkulaç, John Wansbrough, Francisco del Río Sánchez, Simon C. Mimouni, Abdul-Massih Saadi, Joseph Azzi, Mālik Muslimānī, Y. Durra al-Ḥaddād, Guy Stroumsa, Holger Zellentin, Jens Scheiner, Michael E. Pregill, Peter Webb, etc


    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5299 - February 14, 2019, 07:45 PM

    Christoph Luxenberg argues that the Quranic ʿĪsā is an adaptation of the Hebrew ʾĪshay (The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran: A Contribution to the Decoding of the Language of the Koran, Berlin, 2007, pp. 41–3). As for the others, I do not know. I am not aware of any specific statement.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5300 - February 14, 2019, 08:21 PM

    Quote
    Christoph Luxenberg argues that the Quranic ʿĪsā is an adaptation of the Hebrew ʾĪshay (The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran: A Contribution to the Decoding of the Language of the Koran, Berlin, 2007, pp. 41–3). As for the others, I do not know. I am not aware of any specific statement.

    well...  Mahgraye   Yes  but..but.,

    ......,. He's a complete hack. It's pseudo-science. Even if it turns out he *is* right, this is purely because even a broken clock is right twice a day.................

    what do  you think??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5301 - February 14, 2019, 08:43 PM

    Are you quoting van Putten?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5302 - February 14, 2019, 08:46 PM

    Well, him being a hack and/or pseudo-scientist has no bearing on individual proposals he makes. These proposals must be judged on a case-by-case basis and not dismissed a priori. At most, the harsh remarks might be applicable to his meta-thesis, which most scholars reject.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5303 - February 14, 2019, 08:50 PM

    Quote
    Mahgraye :  Are you quoting van Putten?

    well my brain is fried omelet  .. not sure what I am typing and what I am doing dear Mahgraye  .,

    but  do  you think   Christoph Luxenberg  is wrong in saying "Isa" is originated from Jewish folks??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5304 - February 14, 2019, 08:51 PM

    Good question. I don't know. I am not competent in these matters. What do you think?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5305 - February 14, 2019, 08:52 PM

    Luxenberg on Isa:

    Dye in his article doesnt find him convincing on Isa. He respects Luxenberg and examines his readings on merit. So I'll put my money on Dye this time.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5306 - February 14, 2019, 08:53 PM

    Well, him being a hack and/or pseudo-scientist
    Quote
    has no bearing on individual proposals he makes. These proposals must be judged on a case-by-case basis and not dismissed a priori. At most, the harsh remarks might be applicable to his meta-thesis, which most scholars reject

    .

    well He may be pseudo   but I can assure you that van Putten is NO SCIENTIST   lol..
    '

    well do you know who Christoph  Luxenberg  is?  and I fully agree with you what you said on some one's  Hypothesis on some subject

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5307 - February 14, 2019, 08:54 PM

    Quote
    The news of Professor Harald Motzki’s death saddens us deeply. Professor Motzki was the author of two monographs published by Brill and of numerous contributions to EI2 and EI3.

    Brill was honoured to publish a Festschrift for him in 2011. We deeply regret the loss of a remarkable scholar and a kind person. Our thoughts go out to his family and friends.

    Joed Elich
    Kathy van Vliet
    Abdurraouf Oueslati
    Nicolette van der Hoek
    Maurits van den Boogert


    He will surely be missed. One of the greatest scholars to have walked the earth.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5308 - February 14, 2019, 08:55 PM

    Quote
    well He may be pseudo but I can assure you that van Putten is NO SCIENTIST   lol..

    well do you know who Christoph  Luxenberg  is?  and I fully agree wit you what you said


    Maybe I should have used the word scholar instead. No, I don't know his identity apart from him being a Lebanese Christian, perhaps a priest. For a basic biography and introduction to Luxenberg, refer to Ibn Warraq's article. As for van Putten, he is a serious scholar.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5309 - February 14, 2019, 08:57 PM

    Quote
    Dye in his article doesn't find him convincing on Isa. He respects Luxenberg and examines his readings on merit. So I'll put my money on Dye this time.


    This seems to be my opinion as well.
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