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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

 (Read 387242 times)
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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1980 - May 01, 2018, 08:23 PM

    Altara, read this paper by Markus Gross and tell me what you think. Especially the part where he writes about Mecca.
    Early Islam: An Alternative Scenario of its Emergence:

    http://religiondocbox.com/Islam/73559772-Early-islam-an-alternative-scenario-of-its-emergence-markus-gross.html#download_tab_content
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1981 - May 01, 2018, 08:59 PM

     
    ................ question to you  Mahgraye

    does Sean  Anthony  believe  that "Quran is from  Prophet of Islam  and Prophet of Islam was  Muhammad"??

      and Mahgraye  says .. ..........    let  me cut his post
    Quote
    Haha. No problems. I am not sure. He does not assume the reliability of the later sources, so, I do not know. He would say that the historical individual nicknamed Muhammad is the same person that became the prophet of what later became known as Islam. Although he would not claim that the later reports accurately reports information about the historical Muhammad. But we know that by 690 Muhammad was considered to be God's prophet.


    1.  I am not sure.

    2.  He does not assume the reliability of the later sources, so, I do not know.

    3.  He would say that the historical individual nicknamed Muhammad is the same person that became the prophet of what later became known as Islam.

    4.  Although he would not claim that the later reports accurately reports information about the historical Muhammad.

    But we know that by 690 Muhammad was considered to be God's prophet.

      so  making  those points  of  yours as answer to that question.,   May I consider those   4 points  as  ..

    " Prof.  Sean Anthony   is  a  cat sitting  on  a wall that can jump  either side  of it ...  

    Side 1). Traditional Islam

    Side 2)  traditional  Islam  that has come under serious scrutiny  by  some  folks challenging  traditional  Islam  of  faith heads ..    

    Now question  to you again dear Mahgraye ....  Cheesy

    How many folks  such as Sean......... Sean Anthony  are there  as FACULTIES IN VARIOUS   EDUCATIONAL  INSTITUTES  AROUND THE GLOBE   who think similar as that of  Sean Anthony ??  

    Do  you think you can give me  some number?

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1982 - May 01, 2018, 09:02 PM

    Not an exact number, no. A lot, I guess. Anthony is not conservative, though. He belongs to Motzki's camp, which tries to date traditions. Oh no, he not cat at all. He is skeptical, but a not a revisionist. He (and other researchers) adopt a middle position. Not fence sitting. I beleive you are creating a false dichotomy, dear Yeezevee.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1983 - May 01, 2018, 09:06 PM

    Not an exact number, no. A lot, I guess. Anthony is not conservative, though. He belongs to Motzki's camp, which tries to date traditions. Oh no, he not cat at all. He is skeptical, but a not a revisionist. He (and other researchers) adopt a middle position. Not fence sitting.

     Cheesy Cheesy  

    that is  another way of saying   "Cat  on the wall" that can jump either side

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1984 - May 01, 2018, 09:12 PM

    Not really. One can oversimplify scholarly positions, as you do, with all due respect or, one can adopt a more nuanced position instead of going to either sides of the extreme.  Anthony belongs to the scholarly camp of Neo-Tradition-Criticism, or adopts a Neo-Tradition-Critical methodology.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1985 - May 01, 2018, 09:34 PM

    Not really. One can oversimplify scholarly positions, as you do, with all due respect or, one can adopt a more nuanced position instead of going to either sides of the extreme.  

    i know... i know ..I  am NOT that good...  I am not that good scholar  .NOT A SCHOLAR ETALL  and  I am neither  Muslim   nor  Non-Muslim dear  Mahgraye

    Quote
    Anthony belongs to the scholarly camp of Neo-Tradition-Criticism, or adopts a Neo-Tradition-Critical methodology.

      
     those are big words for me  and  I don't want to understand them., But I can  tell  you one thing
     
    All these folks who  writes publications/books  on faiths  .. must write  one thing in their "abstracts "as well as in their "conclusions"  .. and that is ..

    "QURAN IS NOT WORD OF ALLAH/GOD  &  MUHAMMAD  IS  NOT PROPHET OF ALLAH/GOD"  

    and they  must write  that  in  every paper and every book they publish ... meanwhile  I have to  write/read many things..dear Mahgraye..        
     *******************************************************************************
       
     

    Quote

      oh  well life goes  on....

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1986 - May 01, 2018, 09:40 PM

    Yep, no critical scholar (not even Anthony) believes that Koran is the word of God, nor do the endorse that view in any of their publications.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1987 - May 01, 2018, 09:45 PM

    Yep, no critical scholar (not even Anthony) believes that Koran is the word of God, nor do the endorse that view in any of their publications.

      THAT IS NO USE TO ANY ONE  

    here  you said  a  LOT
    A lot, I guess...............

       in that "LOT"    How many  of them   publish  this in their books/papers  ..

     
    "QURAN IS NOT WORD OF ALLAH/GOD  &  MUHAMMAD  IS  NOT PROPHET OF ALLAH/GOD"  

     In fact  all  these scholars MUST PUT  THAT AROUND THEIR NECKS like an id-card at their work  place  finmad finmad  

    just kidding...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1988 - May 01, 2018, 09:51 PM

    Haha. As I said, no scholar, regardless of methodological camp or conclusion tendency, entertains the idea that the Koran is the word of God. They do not need to put that in their books. Why would scholars put that phrase your formulated in their books? It is very weird and somewhat polemical. Scholars are concerned with just that, scholarship. It is not their job to make theological claims, even if they were true.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1989 - May 01, 2018, 09:56 PM

    Haha. As I said, no scholar, regardless of methodological camp or conclusion tendencies, entertains the idea that the Koran is the word of God.

     
    I  already said   that is no use ..that INTELLECTUAL MASTURBATION /attending meetings/conferences   having diners  is  ABSOLUTELY  USELESS to the society  
    Quote
    They do not need to put that in their books.

      
    why not??

    if they do that in their  papers and  books  ..
    DO  THEY NOT GET  PUBLISHED??
    DO THEY LOOSE THEIR JOBS??
    DO THEY LOOSE THEIR HEADS??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1990 - May 01, 2018, 10:02 PM

    No, they will not lose their jobs. Dear Yeezevee, you should do some more reading. I do not say this with arrogance or pretentiousness, rather, as a friendly advice. If you do read the scholars in this field you will see that they do not hold to such notions and some explicit deny it in their publications and outside it.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1991 - May 02, 2018, 11:20 AM

    No, they will not lose their jobs. Dear Yeezevee, you should do some more reading. I do not say this with arrogance or pretentiousness, rather, as a friendly advice. If you do read the scholars in this field you will see that they do not hold to such notions and some explicit deny it in their publications and outside it.

    I  know you are not arrogant  or pretentious  but I am when  it comes to faiths and faith heads dear Mahgraye  ..

    dear Mahgraye,   I  would advice all those scholars whom you  think  they are scholars   "     to read   Quran and hadith and  figure  out

    1.  origins of faith Islam
    2.  origin of  Prophet  of Islam
    3.  and the origins routine rituals of Islam"  

    And   that they should it before writing publications on early  Islam or books o  the origins of Islam

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1992 - May 02, 2018, 01:05 PM

    No, they will not lose their jobs. Dear Yeezevee, you should do some more reading. I do not say this with arrogance or pretentiousness, rather, as a friendly advice. If you do read the scholars in this field you will see that they do not hold to such notions and some explicit deny it in their publications and outside it.

      So Mahgraye   used two  important words in his  post  "scholars" in this "field"                                     

    So question is .,   Who  are  the scholars of early Islam on  the Origins of Quran ...Muhammad... Mecca ....Madina..etc..etc..and their goal  of investigations??
     
    casually  I posed that question to   Google god..... and  after filtering,  it  gives the following  links ..


    Quote

           
    So I wish  Mahgraye could also  putout some  links and list of names  on  that  subject  of  Quran ...Muhammad... Mecca ....Madina..  in Early  Islam..
      

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1993 - May 02, 2018, 07:47 PM

    Here are some names of prominent scholars in the field of Islamic Studies who have published on the Koran, Hadith, etc. They belong to different methodological camps.

    Angelika Neuwirth, Nicolai Sinai, Michael Marx, Gregor Schoeler, Harald Motzki, Andreas Görke, Chase F. Robinson, Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, Gerald R. Hawting, John Wansbrough, Rudolph Sellheim, Sean Anthony, Christopher Melchert, Herbert Berg, Johann Fück, Nabia Abbot, Robert Hoyland, Jonathan Brockopp, Shahab Ahmed, Stephen Shoemaker, Fred Donner, Gabriel Said Reynolds, Jan van Reeth, Holger Zolondek, Gautier A. H. Juynboll, Ignaz Goldziher, Joseph Schacht,  Henri Lammens, Andrew Rippin, Ernst Renan, Norman Calder, Iftikhar Zaman, Arthur Jeffery, Lawrence Conrad, Aloys Sprenger, Marco Schöller, Tilman Nagel, Francis Peters, Stephen Humphreys, Behnam Sadeghi, James Montgomery, Uri Bergmann, Jonathan Brown, Ian Morris, Stefan Heidemann, Sebastian Günther, Carlos A. Segovia, Meir Kister, Uri Rubin, Montgomery Watt, Julius Wellhausen, M. M. Azami, Alfred Guillaume, Guillaume Dye, A. J. Arberry, Michael Lecker, Scott Lucas, François de Bois,  Jan Retsö, Omar Hamdan, William Muir, Amidu Olalekan Sanni, James Robson, Marston Speight, Kevin Reinhart, Eerik Dickinson, David Cook, Devin Stewart, Günter Lüling, John Burton, Peter Stein, George Makdisi, Wael Hallaq, Noel Coulson, Sebastian Günther, Stefan Leder, Talal Maloush, Stefan Wild, Thomas Bauer, David Margoliouth, M. C. Lyon, Leone Caetani, David Powers, Maher Jarrar, Mohammed Bamyeh, Sadun Mahmud Al-Samuk, Maxime Rodinson, Emran El-Badawi, Hossein Modarressi, Daniel Madigan, Paul Casanova, Alphonse Mingana, Lyall Armstrong, Intisar Rabb, Asma Sayeed, Najam Haider, Yasin Dutton, Amikam Elad, Sydney Griffith, Etan Kohlberg, Ella Landau-Tasseron, Hellmut Ritter, Pavel Pavlovitch, James Bellamy, Hans-Casper Graf von Bothmer, François Déroche, Adis Duderija, Asma Hilali, Hartwig Hirschfeld, Shady Hekmat Nasser, Johannes van Oort, Catherine Pennacchio, Mustafa Shah, W. St. Clair Tisdall, Estelle Whelan, Solehah binti Yaacob, Mohsen Goudarzi, Kamaruddin Amin, Carl Brockelmann, Mohammed Fadel, Sulaiman Jarallah, Ilkka Lindstedt, Ulrike Mitter, Halit Ozkan, Irene Schneider, A. J. Wensinck, Petra Sijpesteijin, J. M. B. Jones, Albrecht Noth, J. H. Kramers, Abraham Geiger, Theodor Nöldeke, Nicolet Boekhoff-van der Voort, Karl Vilhelm Zetterstéen, Christopher Toll, Tord Olsson, Jane Dammen McAuliffe, William A. Graham, Navid Kermani, Fred Leemhuis, Naṣr Abū Zayd, Camilla Adang, ʿAlī b. Ibrāhīm al-Ghabbān, Nebil Ahmed Husayn, Marijin van Putten, Ahmad Al-Jallad, Michael Bonner, Jonathan Owens, Martin F. J. Baasten, Régis Blachère, Richard Bell, Flügel, David Hollenberg, Seth A. Rosenthal, Miklos Muranyi, Mahdi ‘May’ Shaddel, Harald Suermann,  Han J. W. Drijvers, Gerrit J. Reinink, Pieter W. van der Horst, Suliman Bashear, Edmund Beck, Gotthelf Bergsträsser, Gerhard Böwering, David Cook, Martin Hinds, Gilbert Dagron, Vincent Déroche, Alfred-Louis de Prémare, Abd al-Aziz Duri, Reuven Firestone, Oleg Grabar, Marshall G. S. Hodgson, Raif Georges Khoury, Wilferd Madelung, Michael G. Morony, Suleiman Ali Mourad, Neal Robinson, Muḥammad Zubayr Ṣiddīqī, Rizwi S. Faizer, Saleh Said Agha, Hinrich Biesterfeldt, Wadad Kadi, Judith Herrin, Joseph Witztum, Hannah Cotton, Guy G. Stroumsa, Karen Bauer, David M. Eisenberg, Deborah G. Tor, Matthew S. Gordon, Kevin van Bladel, Maria Mavroudi, Fritz W. Zimmermann, Michael Cooperson, Margaret Larkin, Khaled El-Rouayheb, Chris Wickham, David J. Wasserstein, David Abulafia, Adam Silverstein, Bella Tendler Krieger, Werner Diem, Geoffrey Khan, Marie Legendre, Lucian Reinfandt, Irfan Shahid, Khalid Younes, Nancy Khalek, Maribel Fierro, Najam Haider, Adam Sabra, Jane Hathaway, Samer Traboulsi, Nurit Tsafrir, Nimrod Hurvitz, Justin Stearns, Asad Q. Ahmed, Leor Halevi, Carol Bakhos, Iwona Gajda, Norman Calder, Asma Sayeed, Hassan F. Ansari, Baber Johansen, Intisar A. Rabb, Khaled Abou El Fadl, Edmund Beck, M. M. Bravemann, Harris Birkeland, Toshihiko Izutsu, Averil Cameron, Garth Fowden, Frank Trombley, J. H. W. Liebeschuetz, Christian Decorbet, Fergus Millar, Robert Schick, J. F. Haldon, Hartmut Bobzin, Mikhail D. Bukharin, Islam Dayeh, Kirill Dmitriev, Barbara Finster, Agnes Imhof, Ernst Axel Knauf, Reimund Leicht, Norbert Nebes, Jan Retsö, Nora K. Schmid, Tilman Seidensticker, Peter Stein, Isabel Toral-Niehoff, Sergio Noja Noseda, Karl-Heinz Ohlig, Christoph Luxenburg, Markus Gross, Volker Popp, Hans Jansen, Muhammad Sven Kalisch, Yehuda Nevo, Judith Koren, Robert M. Kerr, Raymond Dequin, Uwe Friedrich Schmidt, Peter von Sivers, Christopher Plato, Gilles Courtieu, Johannes Thomas, Genevieve Gobillot, Mohammad Lamsiah, Jean-Jacques Walter, Gerd-Rüdiger Puin, Ibn Warraq, Norbert G. Pressburg, Robert Spencer, Hans-Jörg Döhla, Alba Fedeli, Marcin Grodzki, Geneviève Gobillot, Markus Stor, Claude Gilliot, Christoph Heger, Gilles Courtieu, Manfred S. Kropp, Robert M. Kerr, Pierre Larcher, Thomas Milo, Sergio Noja Noseda, Alfred-Louis de Prémare, Elisabeth Puin, Filippo Ranieri, Piotr O. Scholz, Mondher SFAR, Kieth Liten, Johannes Thomas,  Frank Van Reeth, Munther Younes, Mohammad Lamsiah, Édouard-Marie Gallez, Éléonore Cellard, Tayyar Altıkulaç, John Wansbrough, Francisco del Río Sánchez, Simon C. Mimouni, Abdul-Massih Saadi, Joseph Azzi, Mālik Muslimānī, Y. Durra al-Ḥaddād, Guy Stroumsa, Holger Zellentin, Jens Scheiner, Michael E. Pregill, Peter Webb, etc.


  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1994 - May 02, 2018, 08:11 PM

    Here are some names of prominent scholars in the field of Islamic Studies who have published on the Koran, Hadith, etc. They belong to different methodological camps.

    Angelika Neuwirth, Nicolai Sinai, Michael Marx, Gregor Schoeler, Harald Motzki, Andreas Görke, Chase F. Robinson, Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, Gerald R. Hawting, John Wansbrough, Rudolph Sellheim, Sean Anthony, Christopher Melchert, Herbert Berg, Johann Fück, Nabia Abbot, Robert Hoyland, Jonathan Brockopp, Shahab Ahmed, Stephen Shoemaker, Fred Donner, Gabriel Said Reynolds, Jan van Reeth, Holger Zolondek, Gautier A. H. Juynboll, Ignaz Goldziher, Joseph Schacht,  Henri Lammens, Andrew Rippin, Ernst Renan, Norman Calder, Iftikhar Zaman, Arthur Jeffery, Lawrence Conrad, Aloys Sprenger, Marco Schöller, Tilman Nagel, Francis Peters, Stephen Humphreys, Behnam Sadeghi, James Montgomery, Uri Bergmann, Jonathan Brown, Ian Morris, Stefan Heidemann, Sebastian Günther, Carlos A. Segovia, Meir Kister, Uri Rubin, Montgomery Watt, Julius Wellhausen, M. M. Azami, Alfred Guillaume, Guillaume Dye, A. J. Arberry, Michael Lecker, Scott Lucas, François de Bois,  Jan Retsö, Omar Hamdan, William Muir, Amidu Olalekan Sanni, James Robson, Marston Speight, Kevin Reinhart, Eerik Dickinson, David Cook, Devin Stewart, Günter Lüling, John Burton, Peter Stein, George Makdisi, Wael Hallaq, Noel Coulson, Sebastian Günther, Stefan Leder, Talal Maloush, Stefan Wild, Thomas Bauer, David Margoliouth, M. C. Lyon, Leone Caetani, David Powers, Maher Jarrar, Mohammed Bamyeh, Sadun Mahmud Al-Samuk, Maxime Rodinson, Emran El-Badawi, Hossein Modarressi, Daniel Madigan, Paul Casanova, Alphonse Mingana, Lyall Armstrong, Intisar Rabb, Asma Sayeed, Najam Haider, Yasin Dutton, Amikam Elad, Sydney Griffith, Etan Kohlberg, Ella Landau-Tasseron, Hellmut Ritter, Pavel Pavlovitch, James Bellamy, Hans-Casper Graf von Bothmer, François Déroche, Adis Duderija, Asma Hilali, Hartwig Hirschfeld, Shady Hekmat Nasser, Johannes van Oort, Catherine Pennacchio, Mustafa Shah, W. St. Clair Tisdall, Estelle Whelan, Solehah binti Yaacob, Mohsen Goudarzi, Kamaruddin Amin, Carl Brockelmann, Mohammed Fadel, Sulaiman Jarallah, Ilkka Lindstedt, Ulrike Mitter, Halit Ozkan, Irene Schneider, A. J. Wensinck, Petra Sijpesteijin, J. M. B. Jones, Albrecht Noth, J. H. Kramers, Abraham Geiger, Theodor Nöldeke, Nicolet Boekhoff-van der Voort, Karl Vilhelm Zetterstéen, Christopher Toll, Tord Olsson, Jane Dammen McAuliffe, William A. Graham, Navid Kermani, Fred Leemhuis, Naṣr Abū Zayd, Camilla Adang, ʿAlī b. Ibrāhīm al-Ghabbān, Nebil Ahmed Husayn, Marijin van Putten, Ahmad Al-Jallad, Michael Bonner, Jonathan Owens, Martin F. J. Baasten, Régis Blachère, Richard Bell, Flügel, David Hollenberg, Seth A. Rosenthal, Miklos Muranyi, Mahdi ‘May’ Shaddel, Harald Suermann,  Han J. W. Drijvers, Gerrit J. Reinink, Pieter W. van der Horst, Suliman Bashear, Edmund Beck, Gotthelf Bergsträsser, Gerhard Böwering, David Cook, Martin Hinds, Gilbert Dagron, Vincent Déroche, Alfred-Louis de Prémare, Abd al-Aziz Duri, Reuven Firestone, Oleg Grabar, Marshall G. S. Hodgson, Raif Georges Khoury, Wilferd Madelung, Michael G. Morony, Suleiman Ali Mourad, Neal Robinson, Muḥammad Zubayr Ṣiddīqī, Rizwi S. Faizer, Saleh Said Agha, Hinrich Biesterfeldt, Wadad Kadi, Judith Herrin, Joseph Witztum, Hannah Cotton, Guy G. Stroumsa, Karen Bauer, David M. Eisenberg, Deborah G. Tor, Matthew S. Gordon, Kevin van Bladel, Maria Mavroudi, Fritz W. Zimmermann, Michael Cooperson, Margaret Larkin, Khaled El-Rouayheb, Chris Wickham, David J. Wasserstein, David Abulafia, Adam Silverstein, Bella Tendler Krieger, Werner Diem, Geoffrey Khan, Marie Legendre, Lucian Reinfandt, Irfan Shahid, Khalid Younes, Nancy Khalek, Maribel Fierro, Najam Haider, Adam Sabra, Jane Hathaway, Samer Traboulsi, Nurit Tsafrir, Nimrod Hurvitz, Justin Stearns, Asad Q. Ahmed, Leor Halevi, Carol Bakhos, Iwona Gajda, Norman Calder, Asma Sayeed, Hassan F. Ansari, Baber Johansen, Intisar A. Rabb, Khaled Abou El Fadl, Edmund Beck, M. M. Bravemann, Harris Birkeland, Toshihiko Izutsu, Averil Cameron, Garth Fowden, Frank Trombley, J. H. W. Liebeschuetz, Christian Decorbet, Fergus Millar, Robert Schick, J. F. Haldon, Hartmut Bobzin, Mikhail D. Bukharin, Islam Dayeh, Kirill Dmitriev, Barbara Finster, Agnes Imhof, Ernst Axel Knauf, Reimund Leicht, Norbert Nebes, Jan Retsö, Nora K. Schmid, Tilman Seidensticker, Peter Stein, Isabel Toral-Niehoff, Sergio Noja Noseda, Karl-Heinz Ohlig, Christoph Luxenburg, Markus Gross, Volker Popp, Hans Jansen, Muhammad Sven Kalisch, Yehuda Nevo, Judith Koren, Robert M. Kerr, Raymond Dequin, Uwe Friedrich Schmidt, Peter von Sivers, Christopher Plato, Gilles Courtieu, Johannes Thomas, Genevieve Gobillot, Mohammad Lamsiah, Jean-Jacques Walter, Gerd-Rüdiger Puin, Ibn Warraq, Norbert G. Pressburg, Robert Spencer, Hans-Jörg Döhla, Alba Fedeli, Marcin Grodzki, Geneviève Gobillot, Markus Stor, Claude Gilliot, Christoph Heger, Gilles Courtieu, Manfred S. Kropp, Robert M. Kerr, Pierre Larcher, Thomas Milo, Sergio Noja Noseda, Alfred-Louis de Prémare, Elisabeth Puin, Filippo Ranieri, Piotr O. Scholz, Mondher SFAR, Kieth Liten, Johannes Thomas,  Frank Van Reeth, Munther Younes, Mohammad Lamsiah, Édouard-Marie Gallez, Éléonore Cellard, Tayyar Altıkulaç, John Wansbrough, Francisco del Río Sánchez, Simon C. Mimouni, Abdul-Massih Saadi, Joseph Azzi, Mālik Muslimānī, Y. Durra al-Ḥaddād, Guy Stroumsa, Holger Zellentin, Jens Scheiner, Michael E. Pregill, Peter Webb, etc.

       my  goodness  gracious  tremendous time , tax payers money  and  public resources  wasted   on   investigating stories of Islam   Cheesy   ..Just kidding Mahgraye  ..   I will take 2 lifetimes to explore /  figure out  on  what they wrote and why they wrote

    but  what I  am looking  for is some thing like this on Islam    "DURING LIFE TIME OF  PROPHET OF ISLAM"   and selective PDF files from you  like  this  one for  e.g.  Seeing the Origins of Islam in Historical Perspective  by Fred M. Donner .. will be more useful ..

    thanks any way
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1995 - May 02, 2018, 08:25 PM

    Haha. Your are funny, indeed. One can never spend too much money on knowledge. Okay. Will try to find some articles similar to that of Donner's.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1996 - May 03, 2018, 08:28 AM

    Sarah Bowen Savant on the KITAB project: http://kitab-project.org/2018/05/02/detecting-what-authors-took-from-earlier-works/
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=O6nOCLL_fWc
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1997 - May 04, 2018, 08:34 PM

    Another thread on Mehdy Shaddel’s article: https://mobile.twitter.com/GabrielSaidR/status/992351370178105344

    Also: https://mobile.twitter.com/AENJournal/status/991243042928644096
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1998 - May 04, 2018, 09:29 PM

    "In other words, the dialect of the Quran is different from that of N.W. Arabia."

    If proved by another studies, it is maybe why those who have had the text (North Arabs) have had many difficulties to understand it and why they had many difficulties to adapt it to their own dialect which will became 'Classical Arabic'.
    Shaddel is sponsored by Isqsa the Reynolds association. It has to be noted as information, nothing more, nothing less.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1999 - May 05, 2018, 03:27 AM

    ..........Shaddel is sponsored by Isqsa the Reynolds association. It has to be noted as information, nothing more, nothing less.

     Cheesy  well that is how academic departments work., So Altara  I asked a  question to  Mahgraye ....
      So Mahgraye   used two  important words in his  post  "scholars" in this "field"                                     

    So question is .,   Who  are  the scholars of early Islam on  the Origins of Quran ...Muhammad... Mecca ....Madina..etc..etc..and their goal  of investigations?? 

      and Mahgraye  listed  some zillion names   
    Here are some names of prominent scholars in the field of Islamic Studies who have published on the Koran, Hadith, etc. They belong to different methodological camps.

    Angelika Neuwirth,
    Nicolai Sinai, Michael Marx, Gregor Schoeler, Harald Motzki, Andreas Görke, Chase F. Robinson, Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, Gerald R. Hawting, John Wansbrough, Rudolph Sellheim, Sean Anthony, Christopher Melchert, Herbert Berg, Johann Fück, Nabia Abbot, Robert Hoyland, Jonathan Brockopp, Shahab Ahmed, Stephen Shoemaker, Fred Donner, Gabriel Said Reynolds, Jan van Reeth, Holger Zolondek, Gautier A. H. Juynboll, Ignaz Goldziher, Joseph Schacht,  Henri Lammens, Andrew Rippin, Ernst Renan, Norman Calder, Iftikhar Zaman, Arthur Jeffery, Lawrence Conrad, Aloys Sprenger, Marco Schöller, Tilman Nagel, Francis Peters, Stephen Humphreys, Behnam Sadeghi, James Montgomery, Uri Bergmann, Jonathan Brown, Ian Morris, Stefan Heidemann, Sebastian Günther, Carlos A. Segovia, Meir Kister, Uri Rubin, Montgomery Watt, Julius Wellhausen, M. M. Azami, Alfred Guillaume, Guillaume Dye, A. J. Arberry, Michael Lecker, Scott Lucas, François de Bois,  Jan Retsö, Omar Hamdan, William Muir, Amidu Olalekan Sanni, James Robson, Marston Speight, Kevin Reinhart, Eerik Dickinson, David Cook, Devin Stewart, Günter Lüling, John Burton, Peter Stein, George Makdisi, Wael Hallaq, Noel Coulson, Sebastian Günther, Stefan Leder, Talal Maloush, Stefan Wild, Thomas Bauer, David Margoliouth, M. C. Lyon, Leone Caetani, David Powers, Maher Jarrar, Mohammed Bamyeh, Sadun Mahmud Al-Samuk, Maxime Rodinson, Emran El-Badawi, Hossein Modarressi, Daniel Madigan, Paul Casanova, Alphonse Mingana, Lyall Armstrong, Intisar Rabb, Asma Sayeed, Najam Haider, Yasin Dutton, Amikam Elad, Sydney Griffith, Etan Kohlberg, Ella Landau-Tasseron, Hellmut Ritter, Pavel Pavlovitch, James Bellamy, Hans-Casper Graf von Bothmer, François Déroche, Adis Duderija, Asma Hilali, Hartwig Hirschfeld, Shady Hekmat Nasser, Johannes van Oort, Catherine Pennacchio, Mustafa Shah, W. St. Clair Tisdall, Estelle Whelan, Solehah binti Yaacob, Mohsen Goudarzi, Kamaruddin Amin, Carl Brockelmann, Mohammed Fadel, Sulaiman Jarallah, Ilkka Lindstedt, Ulrike Mitter, Halit Ozkan, Irene Schneider, A. J. Wensinck, Petra Sijpesteijin, J. M. B. Jones, Albrecht Noth, J. H. Kramers, Abraham Geiger, Theodor Nöldeke, Nicolet Boekhoff-van der Voort, Karl Vilhelm Zetterstéen, Christopher Toll, Tord Olsson, Jane Dammen McAuliffe, William A. Graham, Navid Kermani, Fred Leemhuis, Naṣr Abū Zayd, Camilla Adang, ʿAlī b. Ibrāhīm al-Ghabbān, Nebil Ahmed Husayn, Marijin van Putten, Ahmad Al-Jallad, Michael Bonner, Jonathan Owens, Martin F. J. Baasten, Régis Blachère, Richard Bell, Flügel, David Hollenberg, Seth A. Rosenthal, Miklos Muranyi, Mahdi ‘May’ Shaddel, Harald Suermann,  Han J. W. Drijvers, Gerrit J. Reinink, Pieter W. van der Horst, Suliman Bashear, Edmund Beck, Gotthelf Bergsträsser, Gerhard Böwering, David Cook, Martin Hinds, Gilbert Dagron, Vincent Déroche, Alfred-Louis de Prémare, Abd al-Aziz Duri, Reuven Firestone, Oleg Grabar, Marshall G. S. Hodgson, Raif Georges Khoury, Wilferd Madelung, Michael G. Morony, Suleiman Ali Mourad, Neal Robinson, Muḥammad Zubayr Ṣiddīqī, Rizwi S. Faizer, Saleh Said Agha, Hinrich Biesterfeldt, Wadad Kadi, Judith Herrin, Joseph Witztum, Hannah Cotton, Guy G. Stroumsa, Karen Bauer, David M. Eisenberg, Deborah G. Tor, Matthew S. Gordon, Kevin van Bladel, Maria Mavroudi, Fritz W. Zimmermann, Michael Cooperson, Margaret Larkin, Khaled El-Rouayheb, Chris Wickham, David J. Wasserstein, David Abulafia, Adam Silverstein, Bella Tendler Krieger, Werner Diem, Geoffrey Khan, Marie Legendre, Lucian Reinfandt, Irfan Shahid, Khalid Younes, Nancy Khalek, Maribel Fierro, Najam Haider, Adam Sabra, Jane Hathaway, Samer Traboulsi, Nurit Tsafrir, Nimrod Hurvitz, Justin Stearns, Asad Q. Ahmed, Leor Halevi, Carol Bakhos, Iwona Gajda, Norman Calder, Asma Sayeed, Hassan F. Ansari, Baber Johansen, Intisar A. Rabb, Khaled Abou El Fadl, Edmund Beck, M. M. Bravemann, Harris Birkeland, Toshihiko Izutsu, Averil Cameron, Garth Fowden, Frank Trombley, J. H. W. Liebeschuetz, Christian Decorbet, Fergus Millar, Robert Schick, J. F. Haldon, Hartmut Bobzin, Mikhail D. Bukharin, Islam Dayeh, Kirill Dmitriev, Barbara Finster, Agnes Imhof, Ernst Axel Knauf, Reimund Leicht, Norbert Nebes, Jan Retsö, Nora K. Schmid, Tilman Seidensticker, Peter Stein, Isabel Toral-Niehoff, Sergio Noja Noseda, Karl-Heinz Ohlig, Christoph Luxenburg, Markus Gross, Volker Popp, Hans Jansen, Muhammad Sven Kalisch, Yehuda Nevo, Judith Koren, Robert M. Kerr, Raymond Dequin, Uwe Friedrich Schmidt, Peter von Sivers, Christopher Plato, Gilles Courtieu, Johannes Thomas, Genevieve Gobillot, Mohammad Lamsiah, Jean-Jacques Walter, Gerd-Rüdiger Puin, Ibn Warraq, Norbert G. Pressburg, Robert Spencer, Hans-Jörg Döhla, Alba Fedeli, Marcin Grodzki, Geneviève Gobillot, Markus Stor, Claude Gilliot, Christoph Heger, Gilles Courtieu, Manfred S. Kropp, Robert M. Kerr, Pierre Larcher, Thomas Milo, Sergio Noja Noseda, Alfred-Louis de Prémare, Elisabeth Puin, Filippo Ranieri, Piotr O. Scholz, Mondher SFAR, Kieth Liten, Johannes Thomas,  Frank Van Reeth, Munther Younes, Mohammad Lamsiah, Édouard-Marie Gallez, Éléonore Cellard, Tayyar Altıkulaç, John Wansbrough, Francisco del Río Sánchez, Simon C. Mimouni, Abdul-Massih Saadi, Joseph Azzi, Mālik Muslimānī, Y. Durra al-Ḥaddād, Guy Stroumsa, Holger Zellentin, Jens Scheiner, Michael E. Pregill,
    Peter Webb, etc.

    Question to you dear Altara.,  ...............   So whom  should i read from that  Mahgraye  SCHOLARS  list

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #2000 - May 05, 2018, 08:17 AM

    First, you have to learn French. Because the most interesting scholars are French (Gallez, Dye, Gobillot, de Prémare, Lammens, Amir-Moezzi, Déroche, Gilliot,Jan van Reeth, Gilbert Dagron, Éléonore Cellard, Vincent Déroche, A.S Boisliveau, Joseph Azzi) Even Reynolds wrote good stuff in French.
    It's not so difficult : English is some kind of French, very bad pronounced (very bad...) with 60% of its vocabulary directly from French origin (not Latin as Britons says... there's not a Latin word in Old English, it's Germanic and Norse)... Remember that the French speaking:, Normans, Picard, Breton, Flemish, the Angevins, the Tourangeaux, the Aquitaine people have conquered and still rule England since 1066 !
    Remember that the real Lords (the hereditary ones, not those fabricated by the King) are all French, they own London, and all the cities of the country... etc.
    You comprehend now why Britons (American as well...) hate so much France. And you understand why President Mitterrand said before he died : ""France doesn't know, but we are at war with America. Yes, a permanent war, a vital war, an economic war, a war without death apparently. Yes, they are very hard Americans, they are voracious, they want an undivided power over the world. It is an unknown war, a permanent war, apparently without death and yet a war to death."
    That is the true stuff my friend...
    But it is not the topic !
    For the rest :  Herbert Berg, Patricia Crone,  Gerald R. Hawting, John Wansbrough,  Carlos A. Segovia, Gabriel Said Reynolds, Lawrence Conrad, John Burton, Alphonse Mingana, Sydney Griffith, Asma Hilali, Nicolet Boekhoff-van der Voort, Marijin van Putten, Ahmad Al-Jallad, Michael Bonner, Neal Robinson, Marie Legendre,  Carol Bakhos,Fergus Millar,Jan Retsö, Isabel Toral-Niehoff, Robert M. Kerr,Peter von Sivers,  Christoph Luxenberg,  Manfred S. Kropp, Holger Zellentin.
    And Daniel Beck !

     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #2001 - May 05, 2018, 02:36 PM

    First, you have to learn French. Because the most interesting scholars are French (Gallez, Dye, Gobillot, de Prémare, Lammens, Amir-Moezzi, Déroche, Gilliot,Jan van Reeth, Gilbert Dagron, Éléonore Cellard, Vincent Déroche, A.S Boisliveau, Joseph Azzi) Even Reynolds wrote good stuff in French.

     Thank  you  Altara.,,  ha!... look at that .,    why those books  and  publications didn't get translated?   Many  young folks of  France know multiple languages ,,   these  French guys and girls sounds like lazy buggers ...  finmad

    Quote
    For the rest :  Herbert Berg, Patricia Crone,  Gerald R. Hawting, John Wansbrough,  Carlos A. Segovia, Gabriel Said Reynolds, Lawrence Conrad, John Burton, Alphonse Mingana, Sydney Griffith, Asma Hilali, Nicolet Boekhoff-van der Voort, Marijin van Putten, Ahmad Al-Jallad, Michael Bonner, Neal Robinson, Marie Legendre,  Carol Bakhos,Fergus Millar,Jan Retsö, Isabel Toral-Niehoff, Robert M. Kerr,Peter von Sivers,  Christoph Luxenberg,  Manfred S. Kropp, Holger Zellentin.
    And Daniel Beck !

     I did read many of  those guys but  I  will scan  through them again  .,  Here I am curious to know from you.,            
        
    HOW MANY OF THEM QUESTIONED EXISTENCE  OF MUHAMMAD  , MECCA  MADINA OF  CLASSICAL ISLAM .   I AM  INTERESTED  IN THOSE PEOPLE  AN THEIR WORKS WHO  ARE  NOT BIBLE TRUMPETERS & CHRISTIAN PRIESTS)

    Quote
    It's not so difficult : English is some kind of French, very bad pronounced (very bad...) with 60% of its vocabulary directly from French origin (not Latin as Britons says... there's not a Latin word in Old English, it's Germanic and Norse)... Remember that the French speaking:, Normans, Picard, Breton, Flemish, the Angevins, the Tourangeaux, the Aquitaine people have conquered and still rule England since 1066 !

    Rascals  stole everything from France....  

    Quote
    Remember that the real Lords (the hereditary ones, not those fabricated by the King) are all French, they own London, and all the cities of the country... etc.  You comprehend now why Britons (American as well...) hate so much France. And you understand why President Mitterrand said before he died : ""France doesn't know, but we are at war with America. Yes, a permanent war, a vital war, an economic war, a war without death apparently. Yes, they are very hard Americans, they are voracious, they want an undivided power over the world. It is an unknown war, a permanent war, apparently without death and yet a war to death."
    That is the true stuff my friend...
    But it is not the topic !

    well  I  do  not  know who  were the real Lords ...  real  kings but   I  agree with you French  folks LOST  EVERYTHING  ..  YAP EVERYTHING ..lucky they  still have France

    In  Canada they lost  

    Quote
    Newfoundland
    Hudson Bay
    Saint Lawrence River
    Great Lakes
    Lake Winnipeg
    Quebec      

                                            
    In  US of A they lost

    Quote
    The Fort Saint Louis (Texas)  
    Saint Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands  
    Fort Caroline in French Florida (occupation by Huguenots)
    French Louisiana (23.3% of the current  US territory)
    Lower Louisiana
    Upper Louisiana
    Louisiana (New France)    

     

    In present-day Brazil they lost  
     
    Quote
    Bay of São Luis
    The island of Saint Alexis  
    The Territory of Amapá  
    The city of Viçosa-Ceará  
    Rio de Janeiro Bay
    Île Delphine's island    

      
     Holy  shit   Indeed they lost every  thing   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_possessions_and_colonies  .,  Oh well  let us be happy  with what we have dear Altara and   make sure that the present France stays  together ..
                                              

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #2002 - May 06, 2018, 10:07 AM

    Quote
    HOW MANY OF THEM QUESTIONED EXISTENCE  OF MUHAMMAD  , MECCA  MADINA OF  CLASSICAL ISLAM .   I AM  INTERESTED  IN THOSE PEOPLE  AN THEIR WORKS WHO  ARE  NOT BIBLE TRUMPETERS & CHRISTIAN PRIESTS)


    The degree of scepticism they have is different. But it is worth to read them all !
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #2003 - May 06, 2018, 10:09 AM

    Yep, no critical scholar (not even Anthony) believes that Koran is the word of God, nor do the endorse that view in any of their publications.


    But they believe to the traditional account. It is the same. Mind it.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #2004 - May 06, 2018, 11:47 AM

    Note that I even included a great number of revisionists in my list, including those who deny Muhammad's historicity.

    Altara made a very important comment. The authors I named have different levels of skepticism. That is why I mentioned that there are different methodological camps in this field. Some scholars, Peter Webb, for instance, that are not skeptics in their methodology but still revisionist in their conclusions.

    I personally think that dear Altara is painting with a very broad brush when saying that everyone still believes in the traditional account. 
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #2005 - May 06, 2018, 07:43 PM

    But they believe to the traditional account. It is the same. Mind it.The traditional account = the framework "Mecca/Medina/Prophet Muhammad".
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #2006 - May 06, 2018, 07:53 PM

    But they believe to the traditional account. It is the same. Mind it.The traditional account = the framework "Mecca/Medina/Prophet Muhammad".

    well   Altara ....may be  Mahgraye  meant in many of his posts that  early Islam story goes  as  "Mecca/Medina/Muhammad".  BUT  NOT     "Mecca/Medina/ Prophet  Muhammad".  .. 

    correct  me if i am wrong dear  Mahgraye

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #2007 - May 06, 2018, 08:00 PM

    Note that I even included a great number of revisionists in my list, including those who deny Muhammad's historicity.
    .....................

      I  like the  originality  and  original  thinkers .,    NOT those who revise  history after reading someone else publications / blogs/ and books...  and one  should  give  credit  they deserve...
                
    Any way  dear Mahgraye  in your post  on "List  of  early Islam Scholars " I wish you  could  highlight  those  who  questioned   historicity  of  Mecca / Madina/Muhamad

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #2008 - May 09, 2018, 11:29 PM

    Emran El-Badawi - Intellectual Freedom and the Study of the Quran

    http://www.academia.edu/36482807/Intellectual_Freedom_and_the_Study_of_the_Quran
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #2009 - May 10, 2018, 02:59 PM

    zeca  thanks for that link little  publication  of Professor  Emran El-Badawi .

    well in that Mahgraye  list  of prominent scholar  he is one of 100s   if  not 1000s
    Quote
    Here are some  gave the  list  that has names of prominent scholars in the field of Islamic Studies who have published on the Koran, Hadith, etc. They belong to different methodological camps.

    ............. Emran El-Badawi, ..............

    Emran El-Badawi - Intellectual Freedom and the Study of the Quran

    http://www.academia.edu/36482807/Intellectual_Freedom_and_the_Study_of_the_Quran


    well  let me read  that carefully  ..and pullout some nuggets out of that pulication

    Quote
    For a long time now, the religious establishment in the Muslim world has deemed the critical study of the Qur’an a type of Western imported heresy. Despite the repression of intellectual freedom, however, free thought has flourished on the Internet and social media.

     Nonsense ...   that is true only if you  live in AMRIKA or in some western  country ..  try that on internet  in the Islamic world from  Egypt to Indonesia including  Islamic  nations in  African continent

    Quote
    Is it permissible to combine intellectual freedom  ̶  a humanist value arising from the core of the European Enlightenment  ̶  and the study of the Qur’an, a sacred book for Muslims? In other words, is it possible to use the scientific and critical method in the study of the Qur’an with no dogmatic restrictions? Doesn’t this pave the way for doubt, unbelief and sedition (fitna)? If the answer to this last question is yes we must conclude that Muslim societies are required to impose a rigid interpretation of the text (which is supported by dogma), prosecuting whoever disagrees with it. This is precisely the tragic situation we face today.

    off course the answers for those questions is big yess.........  Try  removing those restrictions  a  year or two.,, within  a year you  will  find silly faiths  are nothing  but  sand  castles  built on the beach,  just one  tide will sweep them away.    We  are  living in 21st century with every  scientific and literature books/papers  that are ever published  on finger tips.. what  all you need is "Freedom to  access  and freedom to question  with  some 1st year college education"..

    Quote
    If we browse Arabic internet sites or search the word “freedom” online, let alone intellectual freedom to study the Qur’an, we find that the majority of opinions, and declarations, come from the clergy. This simple experiment alone shows the malaise of freedom in the Arab-Muslim world. In this world, religious men play a role which greatly surpasses their numbers. Manyfew of them affirm that intellectual freedom leads to freedom of expression and, hence, to freedom of belief. This is true.

     i am glad  professor noticed  that indeed it  is true but let me replace that  word "many" with "few"

    Quote
    However, what they really mean is that freedom corrupts doctrine and religion. This is false. Their concern is finding ways to impose doctrine so as to create a society of believers molded after the standards set by their religious dogma. As the data indicates this concern is a tremendous illusion. In many Arab-Muslim societies, in fact, we witness the rise of atheism all while religious fundamentalism and terrorist hotbeds spread as well.

    complete nonsensical  statement ...they(THE BABOONS OF ISLAM)know well what they  mean....

    Quote
    [1]Moreover, the Arab-Muslim world is today one of the most active on social networks like Twitter, due to widespread repression and the ensuing lack of intellectual freedom in daily life.[2] By now, many Arab Muslims, especially the youth, have created a digital space, parallel and opposed to repressive societies, in which questions and answers can be freely posed with no need to rely on religious authorities. In this regard,  the most important question is probably the status of the Qur’an, and its understanding through a textual and historical criticism, which is only possible through modern Qur’anic studies.

      
    writing stories is easy  but WHAT MODERN  QUARNIC STUDIES   ARE WE TALKING ABOUT??.....

    #################################################

    Quote
    The Principle of Intellectual Freedom in the Qur’an

    The context in which the Qur’an came to light, as many of its own verses indicate, features the presence of numerous religious groups, including Jews, Zoroastrians, Sabians and other ancient sects (Qur’an 2:62; 5:69; 22:17). Not surprisingly, the text challenges the believers of those preexisting religions, appealing to their intellectual sensibility and inviting them to a new vision of the faith. Faith is established only after meditating on the creation of the heavens and the earth, examining the signs they contain. The Qur’an contains dozens of verses that invite the reader to assess its message, starting from “do they not ponder the Koran?” (4:82), to “Surely in that are signs for a people who reflect” (45:13). It offers the listeners several proofs and counterproofs, never impinging their full-fledged freedom. Despite all this, the Qur’an affirms that “Yet, be thou ever so eager, the most part of men believe not” (12:103). Not even one of the over six-thousand verses in the Qur’an mentions the idea that Qur’anic society was a society of believers. On the contrary, many verses convey the disappointment of the messenger, frustrated by the absence of the very faith which he was preaching. How does the Qur’an respond, by repressing freedom, or imposing the doctrine of Abrahamic monotheism (hanīfiyya)? Not at all, for the opposite is true.
     
    The Qur’an does not lack proofs in favor of intellectual freedom and the plurality of doctrines, of which the only judge is God. The verses are clear in this respect: “Say: ‘The truth is from your Lord; so let whosoever will believe, and let whosoever will disbelieve.’ Surely We have prepared for the evildoers a fire whose pavillon encompasses them” (18:29); “No compulsion is there in religion. Rectitude has become clear from error” (2:256); “Mankind were only one nation, then they fell into variance. But for a word that preceded from thy Lord, it had been decided between them already touching their differences” (10:19); “And if there is a party of you who believe in the Message I have been sent with, and a party who believe not, be patient till God shall judge between us” (7:87).

    Even the assertion of Islamic as a religion is accompanied by disagreement in the text: “The true religion with God is Islam. Those who were given the Book were not at variance except after the knowledge came to them, being insolent one to another” (3:19). What did the God of the Qur’an order His messenger and the people who belittled Him? The text reads: “We know indeed thy breast is strained by the things they say. Proclaim thy Lord’s praise, and be of those that bow” (15:97-98); “We know very well what they say; thou art not a tyrant over them. Therefore remind by the Koran him who fears My threat” (50:45); “Surely we have sent down upon thee the Book for mankind with the truth. Whosoever is guided, is only guided to his own gain, and whosoever goes astray, it is only to his own loss; thou art not a guardian over them” (39:41); “Then remind them! Thou art; thou are not charged to oversee them. But he who turns his back, and disbelieves, God shall chastise him with greatest chastisement” (88:21-24); “And if thy Lord had willed, whoever is in the earth would have believed, all of them, all together. Wouldst thou then constrain the people, until they are believers?” (10:99).

    However, do not the Qur’anic verses, that call for the killing of the unbelievers, contradict intellectual freedom? No. We know from the lessons of history and qur’anic passages that these passages relate to war. Why then do people today confuse the issue at hand, that is freedom, with the ancient expulsion from Mecca (2:191;4:89-92) or the so called pact established between the tribes during the four sacred months (9:1-5) in seventh century Arabia? The problem resides in the continued political polarization today, the waves of regional and global wars, and the recent instability of many Arab-Muslim societies. The perception that Islam is being threatened favors the spread of jihadism, terrorism, military clashes and the murder of innocent Muslims and non-Muslims. It is not surprising that these societies live in a condition of fear and withdrawal; that they compare our bitter reality with a sanctified past. I may go as far as to say that our societies have been transformed in to those for whom “enough for [them] is what [they] found [their] fathers doing. What, even if their fathers had knowledge of naught and were not guided?” (5:104). And yet, history proves that science, intellectual pursuits and freedom turn into unbelief where darkness prevails.[3]


     ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.,   dr. El-Badawi is writing   like a  FAITH  HEAD PREACHING IN  SOME  MOSQUE  IN WEST and i will  explain why it is so...

    Quote
    The Brain Drain

    The repression of freedom has led to the persecution and expulsion from Arab-Muslim societies of many intellectuals, including those who write and work in Qur’anic studies. This was the case of Nasr Hāmid Abū Zayd (d. 2010), a renown Egyptian scholar. Following the publication of his scientific study on the Qur’an (which he had published on the occasion of a university promotion), the religious establishment in Cairo forcibly divorced him from his wife on the basis of heresy.

    His book on the “concept of the text” is unique in its genre, illustrating brilliantly and very clearly the technical terms of the Qura’nic text, and its semantics.[4] His exile remains a dark chapter in a society which later suffered brutal conflict between the military and terrorist groups. Before him, a professor from al-Azhar University, Ahmad Subhī Mansūr, founder of Ahl al-Qur’ān, or the Qur’anist School  ̶  who do not accept the authority of Islamic traditional books, particularly the hadīth  ̶ had been ostracized. In Iran, the great intellectual ‘Abd al-Karīm Sorūsh was accused of treason for his international talks and studies that suggest a new relationship between philosophy and religious texts.

    Those who have not been exiled from their country face perennial clashes with religious and political authorities. It is worth mentioning the case of serious scholars and university professors like Sayyid al-Qimnī, who writes about the role of human culture in the religious experience of the prophet Muhammad and in understanding the Qur’an. He escaped attempts against his life, but he could not escape being beaten up on live TV. Other examples include Egyptian academics like Taha Husayn, Amīn al-Khūlī, and Muhammad Abū Zayd, who have studied the Qur’an as a literary genre, as an object – that is – of critical and scientific inquiry. Regrettably their society has not evolved in the same way. On the contrary, the religious establishment deems critical studies, particularly of Islam and the Qur’an, a sort of Western import and a form of heresy. On this ground, many intellectuals have been sued in tribunals, and attacked by the media or at public engagements.

     
    There are also those who have paid with their life. The great Egyptian thinker Farag Foda was murdered by the Jamā‘a Islāmiyya on account of his critical writings and speeches. He vehemently criticized the inability to recognize the difference between Qur’anic revelation and tradition, citing the example of stoning, a penalty which is not even mentioned in the Qur’an. The writings and the reputation of Nawāl al-Sa‘dāwī  ̶  author, psychiatrist, and an ally of Foda in the promotion of an “enlightened Islam” ̶ , were so strongly slandered that she had to leave Egypt for the West – but that is another story. In Sudan, Muhammad Mahmūd Taha defended the values of freedom and equality found in the Qur’an, reversing the historical chronology of the so-called Medinan and Meccan verses.[5]He inevitably faced accusations of heresy and was condemned to the death penalty on this basis.

    Despite the repression of religious freedom and the ensuing “brain drain,” Arab-Muslim societies do not completely lack intellectual figures who make their voices heard in the field of Qur’anic studies. They are however a tiny minority. In 2016, Ali Mabrouk, one of Abū Zayd’s colleagues and friends, died in Egypt. He was known for formulating the hypothesis, based on Islamic tradition itself, that the prophet Muhammad had conceived the Qur’an as a book open to different interpretations. In Tunisia, intellectual discourse has been slightly less restricted. Olfa Youssef has been allowed to voice the plurality of meanings found in Qur’anic semantics. Similarly, the renowned scholar Hichem Djaït has examined the role of historical and human phenomena  ̶  including the influence of the Syriac-Christian tradition  ̶  on the formation of the Qur’an and the prophecy of Muhammad. An insightful critique can also be found in the works of Ibrāhīm al-Buleihi [al-Bulayhī] and Ibtihāl al-Khatīb in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait respectively. The truth is that the majority of those who critically study the Qur’an do not live in the Arab nor Muslim majority countries, but in Western societies, where they can enjoy greater freedom and better economic opportunities.

    To conclude, it is also necessary to draw attention to the problem of blasphemy laws, and the crime of “offending religion” in some nations today. This criminal category is itself a product of an intolerant, even takfīr-oriented, mindset. This is precisely the mindset which has devastated some Arab-Muslim societies through wars and revolts. If God truly does not need men, be they believers or unbelievers (39:7), and if His light will endure (9:32), then the only true concern of society should be to pass a law which forbids “offending humanity.”


    The Freedom to Study Scripture – Online and on Satellite TV

    As previously stated, political repression and the imposition of orthodoxy have not created a society of believers. Rather, they have pushed people to the opposite extremes of fundamentalism and atheism. What is left for the study of the Qur’an and freedom of thought in this situation? Human nature provides the answer: whatever people cannot do publicly, they will do it in secret, or better yet, on the Internet. It is worth mentioning some independent programs which freely examine religious concerns, including the nature of the Qur’an, with little or no interference on the part of the political and religious authorities. In the last ten years, these programs have multiplied and grown in popularity thanks to YouTube and other social networks. Muslims who had previously suffered persecution within Arab-Muslim societies – hence turning to atheism, Christianity, or another religion – have thus found notoriety. [

    quote]An example is a Moroccan, by the name of Brother Rashīd, whom after leaving Islam and converting to Christianity, now leads a popular TV program called “Bold questions” (Su’āl jarī’) on the satellite-channel al-Hayat. Its program is indeed bold considering how far it goes in in criticizing (and even attacking) the Qur’an and the prophet of Islam.

    The followers of this and other similar programs increased after the formation of the so called “Islamic State” or ISIS, which is in the background of every discussion on this program.

    Another program is the “Box of Islam” (Sundūq al-Islām), a slightly more academic program led by the Egyptian Hāmid ‘Abd al-Samad, who is now living in Germany, and who eventually left Islam following a very conservative religious education and upbringing. This program broadcasted a series of episodes on the “sources of the Qur’an,” and the links between the sacred texts of Islam, Christianity and Judaism, theorized by well known modern, Western-based, academic studies.

    Not all programs of this kind are born from the initiative of those who live outside of Islam. There are also those who want a “religious reform.” The most significant example is that of the Egyptian intellectual Islam Behery. During the 2017 month of Ramadan, after long battles with al-Azhar, the official religious institution of Muslims in Egypt, and after spending a year in prison (followed by a presidential pardon),[6] he launched a new program entitled “The map” (Al-kharīta). Behery finds inspiration in the teachings of Islamic modernists like Muhammad ‘Abduh and Mahmūd Shaltūt,[7] rejecting many hadīths as offensive and self-contradictory, and offering a biography of the prophet grounded on the Qur’an alone, rather than later Islamic tradition. Behery has been a host of Egyptian television only since the government decided to undertake a religious reform of its own, shaken by the terrorist crisis and the creation ISIS.

    In the field of linguistic studies, a popular Saudi amateur called Loay Alshareef has become famous for his YouTube videos, especially his unravelling of the Qur’an’s mysterious “unconnected letters” through Aramaic translation, rather than classical exegetes. His program is also partly a product of modern, critical academic study born in the West.

     The list of websites and satellite programs are too many to mention here. Suffice to say that the repression of intellectual freedom in some Arab-Muslim societies, particularly during the twentieth-first century, has not prevented intellectual freedom. It has, rather, allowed its dissemination on the Internet and social networks to which we all have access. The downside of this phenomenon is that it is unstructured and somewhat chaotic. It has, for instance, given rise to groups such as the “Saudi liberals;” at other times it has produced ISIS. It is, therefore, necessary for the sake of everyone’s security and stability, to sustain independent academic institutions, like universities, granting intellectual freedom especially to academics and researchers.
     
    The Importance of the Critical Study of the Qur’an
     
    The traditional Islamic approach to the Qur’an (its exegetical works, the “occasions of revelation,” and Qur’anic sciences generally speaking) cannot be considered a proper field of rigorous, critical academic study. To be blunt, there is a huge gap between simply parroting tradition under the pretext of studying the Qur’an on the one hand (meanwhile strengthening the power of clergy and weakening that of the common people), and undertaking academic research rooted in modern critical methods on the other. The latter alone allows for an in-depth examination of the history and content of the Qur’anic text.

    Why should we look to a new approach to studying the Qur’an? The reason is that the Qur’an, like every other sacred text, has become a common heritage for all those who read it, both in the East and in the West. It is an integral part of world literature and universal history. Such a magnificent work deserves being studied with the most advanced scientific and scholarly tools.

    This is what is now taking place at the International Qur’anic Studies Association (IQSA) based in Houston and Atlanta, as well as the Corpus Coranicum project based in Berlin, and in many other cities throughout the world where the critical study of the Qur’an thrives. Modern Qur’anic studies is fundamentally interdisciplinary. It examines the text through the lens of literature, history, manuscripts, social sciences, archeology, numismatics and the humanities, both classical and digital.[8]

    In conclusion, despite the methodological gap between them, there is a strong link between the objectives of classical Islamic tradition and modern Qur’anic studies. If we agree that the objective of modern Qur’anic studies is the understanding of the text, with no interest in defending this or that doctrine, this amounts to a renewal of classical independent reasoning (ijtihād) found in traditional Islamic scholarship. According to a famous Islamic saying, whoever sincerely exercises ijtihād will be rewarded, even if he/she is wrong.

    Modern Qur’anic studies respects differences of opinion and the inevitable disagreements of scholars. In this respect it revives the traditional Islamic virtues of the “etiquette of disagreement,” and the “mercy” of multiple interpretations, which are so desperately needed today. Last but not least, as the renowned Islamic jurist Abū Hanīfa[9] promoted the idea that nothing prevents people from rectifying errors and renew old interpretations. About the founding generation of Islam he says: “They are men and we are men.” Today, to be precise, we should say “we are men and women.” The problem of intellectual freedom and Qur’anic studies is not an issue of faith or heresy. Rather, it is a matter of appreciating scripture and humankind at one and the same time, “for people who know how to think.”
     
    [I would like to particularly thank my colleague Khadīja Ja‘far, writer and independent scholar of philosophy and Islamic sciences for her revisions[/quote]
     
    ..........................................
    Note

    [1] Gilgamesh Nabeel, “Atheists in Muslim world: Silent, Resentful and Growing in Number,” The Washington Times, August 1 2017, http://bit.ly/2wlOSBZ; N.A. Hussein, “How Egypt’s Religious Institutions are Trying to Curb Atheism,” al-Monitor, May 23 2017, http://bit.ly/2hwzldW
    [2] “Twitter…minbar al-sa‘ūdiyyin wa silāhu-hum” [Twitter, the Pulpit and the Weapon of the Saudi], al-Jazeera, September 27 2017.
    [3] Mamdūh Dasūqī, “Al-Duktūr Khālid Muntasir al-bāhith wa l-mufakkir al-misrī li-«l-Wafd»: tuhmat izdirā’ al-adyān sayf ‘alā riqāb al-mubdi‘īn” [According to Khālid Muntasir ad “al-Wafd,” an Egyptian scholar and intellectual, the accusation of religious offense is like a sword weighing on the heads of the innovators], Al-Wafd, October 3 2017.
    [4] Nasr Hāmid Abū Zayd, Mafhūm al-nass: dirāsa fī ‘ulūm al-Qur’ān (al-Markaz al-thaqāfī al-‘arabī, al-Dār al-Baydā’, 2008).
    [5] Taha argued that the most authentic and universal message of the Qur’an dated back to the verses of Meccan revelation. In his view, the verses of the Medinan period were intended to apply only within the historical context of seventh century Arabia. He encouraged Muslims to interpret the Qur’an in light of the Meccan verses, while jurists have always supported the priority of the Medinan verses, especially for the development of legal norms [Ed.].
    [6] Islam Behery had been sentenced to five years in prison for blasphemy, having passed very harsh judgments on the Islamic tradition and al-Azhar.
    [7] Two important figures of Islamic Reformism. Muhammad ‘Abduh (1849-1905) was Mufti of Egypt from 1899 to 1905. Mahmūd Shaltūt (1893-1963) was Grand Iman of Al-Azhar from 1985 to his death [Ed.].
    [8] Imrān al-Badawī, “Al-Bahth ‘an siyāq al-Qur’ān al-tārīkhī – nubdha ‘an i l-dirāsāt al-qur’āniyya al-hadītha,” Al-Mashriq al-raqamiyya 5 (December 2014).
    [9] Famous legal scholar, founder of one of the four schools of Sunni jurisprudence. He died in Baghdad in 767 [Ed.]
    .
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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