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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9690 - August 20, 2020, 01:59 PM

    I’m not sure how it relates to the topic - wouldn’t it be better on its own thread? something like “reacting to terrible takes from ex-Muslims”.

    you are riot.. I just wanted Marcus Opinion as he uses hadith quite often for his history of Islam... i will hide it for him

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9691 - August 20, 2020, 03:13 PM

    Quote
    I still looking for a better word for Iraq


    I keep Iraq.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9692 - August 20, 2020, 05:59 PM

    I keep Iraq.

     that is all right...  .. Now let me ask you the same question  i asked Marc... and that is about  Al-Masjid al-Ḥarām of present  Mecca Mosque.,

    Marc says on that ..
    ...............I think the site was chosen under the Abbassids yes and therefore the haram was built thereafter ; I locate those events between the beginning of the first Abassid ruler and the end of Ibn Ishaq 's life so between 750 and 767.  ......................


    would you agree with that?  that Mosque at Mecca was built some where in the year between 750 and 767?? in the beginning of Abbasid Caliphate regime? which is literally some 120 year after the death of classical Islamic Prophet Muhammad.............

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9693 - August 20, 2020, 06:32 PM

    Quote
    would you agree with that?


    Nope. For me it was built by Zubayr and regularly enhanced as there are many issue (inundation...) on the site.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9694 - August 20, 2020, 06:37 PM

    It might also be interesting to put a date on the construction of qanats around Mecca.

    Dale Lightfoot - The Origin and Diffusion of Qanats in Arabia: New Evidence from the Northern and Southern Peninsula

    https://www.academia.edu/10767576/The_Origin_and_Diffusion_of_Qanats_in_Arabia_New_Evidence_from_the_Northern_and_Southern_Peninsula

    There’s this about Zubaidah having a water supply constructed. I’ve no idea about the accuracy of the account.

    https://www.thedailystar.net/lifestyle/musings/news/queen-sized-heart-1709986
    Quote
    Nicknamed Zubaidah, the princess married the fabled Caliph Harun-ur-Rashid, and is said to have made the pilgrimage to Makkah with her husband more than once, completing the long arduous journey by foot, due their piety.

    During one such journey, in an exceptionally dry year, the Queen noticed the untold suffering of pilgrims and residents of Makkah for the shortage of water in the dry and arid valley, so much so that even the legendary Zamzam could not meet the demand. Once back home to her palace, she decided to take matters into her own hand. Her first order of business was to deepen the Zamzam well, immediately alleviating some of the suffering of the people. But she was also a planner, and farsighted. Knowing that just the well should not be depended on, she set her engineers the task of finding ways to bring water to Makkah. The valleys nearby the city had some wells, but the only suitable source of water for such an initiative was found some 35 kms away, in the valley of Hunayn, and another one in nearby Arafat. Zubaidah is said to have bought the entire valley, and commissioned her team of architects and engineers to build canals to bring this water, and that from another nearby well, to Makkah. Given the arid nature of the climate, and the hot, tough and rocky terrain, the plan was adapted, and changed to two aqueducts, as preserving a steady supply of surface water would be nearly impossible in the heat. Access wells were built every 50 metres along the entire 38km canal, to allow people free access to the water, and the maintenance of the structure itself. All other canals and any available water sources encountered nearby were used to boost the aqueduct's water supply. It was a truly amazing feat of engineering, maintaining its grade and direction to allow smooth and continuous flow of clean water through a channel that was sometimes over hills, through valleys, and sometimes underground, as dictated by the terrain. The Ayn-e-Zubaidah or Nehr-e-Zubaidah, as the canal is called today, is said to have cost nearly 1.7 million dinars, each dinar being equal to ten grams of gold. Queen Zubaidah paid the entirety of this cost out of her own coffers, virtue of being a queen consort, as well as a princess in her own right. The canal was completed in 801 A.D. and served the pilgrims and residents of Makkah until the early years of the 20th century.


    Edit: more here: http://islamicmonitor.blogspot.com/2012/05/ain-zubaida-symbol-of-magnificent.html
    Quote
    Speaking about the engineering works of the Ain Zubaida, Professor Abu Rizaiza mentioned, The system consists of canals (Qanats), manholes, retaining walls, culvert, dams, bridges, pools, ground (and elevated) water storage tanks and distribution outlets embellished with beautifully shaped stone taps.


    One question would be whether qanats in the area pre-dated this project.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9695 - August 20, 2020, 07:39 PM

    Nope. For me it was built by Zubayr and regularly enhanced as there are many issue (inundation...) on the site.

    you mean  the guy with  20 names in  name??.....Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr ibn al-Awwam....  or His full name  being

    Quote
    Abu Kubayb ‘Abd Allah b. al-Zubayr b. Al-‘Awwam b. Khuvaylid b. Asad b. ‘Abd al-‘Uzza b. Kusayy b. Kilab b. Murrah b. Ka‘ab b. Luiyy b. Ghalib b. Fihr Al-Asadi al-Quraysh


    Quote
    https://en.wikishia.net/view/Abd_Allah_b._al-Zubayr

    Abd Allāh b. al-Zubayr b. al-ʿAwwām (Arabic: عبدالله بن الزبير بن العوّام), known as Ibn al-Zubayr (b. 1/623 – d. 73/692), one of the people who claimed the caliphate after the death of Mu'awiya and has establised his reign over Mecca. He was the son of al-Zubayr b. al-'Awwam who was a notable companion of the Prophet (s) and since he was young during the life of the Prophet (s), he is considered among the youngest companions of Prophet Muhammad (s) (al-sahaba al-sighar). He was the first child born among the Immigrants (Muhajirun) in Medina. Ibn al-Zubayr was famous for not pledging allegiance with Yazid b. Mu'awiya. He claimed to be the caliph and fled from Medina to Mecca, which consequently led to an attack by the army of Yazid to this city. In 64/683 Ibn al-Zubayr called himself the caliph of Muslims and a large number of people of Syria and Hijaz including Mecca and Medina pledged allegiance with him. One of the significant reconstruction of Ka'ba is attributed to him.......reign as Caliph November 683 - November 692.......


    so you put that date around 683-690 as prominent date .. for Mecca in Islam?? and do you get that information from the story of  Ibn al-Kathir, vol. II,??

    Tafsir Ibn Kathir Volume 1-10 English PDF  by Ibn Kathir

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9696 - August 20, 2020, 09:04 PM

    Podcast: https://anchor.fm/bottled-petrichor/episodes/E14-Pre-Islamic-Arabia--Epigraphy--and-Arabic-with-Dr--Ahmad-Al-Jallad-eidobs
    Quote
    Pre-Islamic Arabia, Epigraphy, and Arabic with Dr. Ahmad Al-Jallad

    Join me as I discuss pre-Islamic Arabia, epigraphy, and Arabic with Dr. Ahmad Al-Jallad (twitter: @Safaitic). What is pre-Islamic Arabia and how can we know about it? How did pre-modern scholars approach the subject and what were their goals? How has the discovery of new inscriptions advanced our knowledge of pre-Islamic Arabia, the Qur'an, early-Islam, and the Arabic language? Why did people make inscriptions? How do we know an inscription is actually going back to a particular date? What methodology is applied to determine the pronunciation of certain words in bilingual inscriptions and how important have such inscriptions been for the study of Arabic and other N.E languages? And much more! The professor also discusses some of his findings and the exciting stories behind them.


  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9697 - August 20, 2020, 09:48 PM

    hello zeca .. just curious.,   who actually is that Bottled Petrichor??  which part of the world does he come from?? and what did he publish?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9698 - August 20, 2020, 10:54 PM

    Yeez - I don’t know who he is. The only clue I have is that in the previous episode of the podcast (E13) Jonathan Brown mentions teaching him and calls him Asher.

    Edit: another clue: https://mobile.twitter.com/Safaitic/status/1296495090723102721
    Quote
    A very enjoyable discussion with Mr. Masood on pre-Islamic Arabia. There's never enough time to go into the detail these subjects require, so please feel free to ask follow-up questions and I will respond when I can.


    Asher Masood then? Does that sound like a Pakistani name?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9699 - August 21, 2020, 02:49 PM

    Cheesy  I have not lost any plot ...  but why do you do that??  .. why do you explain some historical actions of the Abbassids in relation with the muslim narratives??

    is it a right thing to do  for a historian?? Did Islam start from Abbasid Caliphate?? 

    or or are you using this  present Muslim narrative and some actions of Abbasid Caliphate to INSULT ISLAM & MUSLIMS??


    Like I said you lost the plot ; re-read from the start.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9700 - August 21, 2020, 02:49 PM

    Marc   you too must do your  work  Cheesy ... did you do it??

    and WHY ARE YOU SO OBSESSED WITH THAT MUSLIM NARRATIVE??  you are a historian ...not a Muslim narrative follower...........


    Like I said, you lost the plot ; re-read from the start.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9701 - August 21, 2020, 02:51 PM

    what is your opinion on that tube........


    My opinion opening the link and seeing the guy talking is that I don't wanna watch it so I stopped it. What is your point here and the link with the thread ?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9702 - August 21, 2020, 03:29 PM

    good..good... Marc says something....

    My opinion opening the link and seeing the guy talking is that I don't wanna watch it so I stopped it. What is your point here and the link with the thread ?

    Oh OK...  that is fine  you don't need to watch it .,  well you know you can always make connection with Quran & Islam

    how about these podcast programs from zeca post ??
     bottled petrichor is doing good job.. please listen to it ., Off course it is up to you...,  but podcast has plenty of well known Scholars of Islam  including Dr. Ahmad Al-Jallad

    Quote
    Like I said, you lost the plot ; re-read from the start.

    Like I said you lost the plot ; re-read from the start.



    well those words of you  sounds like some Quran verses to me.. .....repeating same words........  I don't know where I lost the plot .. may be I lost.,  but it would be nice to know that from you... .. I mean what plot I lost...

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9703 - August 21, 2020, 05:34 PM

    I had always struggled with that word in Sebeos's writings (and it is a good reminder not to read translated texts without inquiring about the original words) and I am happy to see others have noticed though it doesn't answer to all questions and even brings more to the table  Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6zxfmiRvsQ
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9704 - August 21, 2020, 05:36 PM

    They have done a part 2 that I am currently listening to

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNIlw_66ArA
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9705 - August 21, 2020, 05:40 PM

    well those words of you  sounds like some Quran verses to me.. .....repeating same words........  I don't know where I lost the plot .. may be I lost.,  but it would be nice to know that from you... .. I mean what plot I lost...

    with best wishes
    yeezevee


    It isn't that simple because you picked up parts of a discussion and started asking questions without having the context in mind so your questions were not relevant and I cannot explain the whole thing easily. It is better you re-read the discussion.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9706 - August 21, 2020, 05:54 PM

    It isn't that simple because you picked up parts of a discussion and started asking questions without having the context in mind so your questions were not relevant and I cannot explain the whole thing easily. It is better you re-read the discussion.

    oh Ok..

    They have done a part 2 that I am currently listening to

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNIlw_66ArA

    well.. why Central  Asia  dear Marc??.... why blame Arabian pagans or central Asian pagans ??  they could as well be Turkeys from present turkey

    tell Murad.,  a guy in CEMB forum thinks that they were Erdogonian type turkeys from the present Turkey

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9707 - August 22, 2020, 02:37 PM

    It seems that Dye has left Twitter.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9708 - August 22, 2020, 08:20 PM

    https://medium.com/@seavuw/a-compilation-of-expert-twitter-threads-and-tweets-on-the-qirāʾāt-readings-and-textual-f2b343e919be
    Quote
    A compilation of expert Twitter threads and tweets on the Qirāʾāt readings and textual transmission of the Qurʼān

    This page is intended as a useful overview of the most interesting points by academics shared during the recent perfect preservation controversy (I have also read papers on many of these topics). In addition, I include some of my own notes/questions that spring to mind as a lay person observing these fascinating discussions.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9709 - August 22, 2020, 08:22 PM

    It seems that Dye has left Twitter.


    That’s a shame - not that I’d want to be on twitter myself.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9710 - August 23, 2020, 12:09 PM

    Thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/Safaitic/status/1296838187101364229
    Quote
    Treating early Christian Arabic on its own terms. Authors were not 'making mistakes' -- they were following a different, non-Classical Arabic, standard. Big things coming from @phillipwstokes on this neglected corpus.

    Quote
    t's likely Xian mss don't reflect a monolithic variety, but they do share lots of features that are at home in pre- and early Islamic Hijazi Arabic. To understand what we're looking at, analysis has to situate them there and carefully analyze distribution of features.


    I wonder if this will shed any light on the geographical origins of Christian Arabic, and also whether ‘Hijazi Arabic’ is in fact from the Hijaz.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9711 - August 23, 2020, 12:13 PM


    good stupid Twitter is NOT for serious discussions.. it is just for saying hello to family .. friends..  well wishers and to those who  don't like you  and your views..  

    So dear Altara I wonder whether you could help me understanding MY PLOT...  Marc_S says  to me..

    "I HAD A PLOT AND I LOST THE PLOT .". I am pulling my hair out of their root to figure out my Plot ..  I asked to tell me that plot.. and he says .. read whole folder... so I am asking you same question .. whether you can figure out the plot I have/had  and Marc_s knows .. it ..

    anyways.. I am of the opinion you read Quran inside out. every verse  of every chapter., So   my question to you now is ...

    WHAT DOES QURAN SAY ON CONVERTING OTHER RELIGIOUS  PRAYER PLACES TO MOSQUES ?   I would greatly appreciate any publications and verses you read Quran and and your understanding those verses on that question


    with best regards
    yeezevee



    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9712 - August 23, 2020, 12:49 PM


    Analysis of Converted Historical Mediterranean Churches and Mosques by Mahmood Albrifkany

    Mosque To Church Conversions in the Spanish Reconquest by  Julie A. Harris

     The Siting of Churches and Mosques as an Indicator of Christian–Muslim Relations by Emmett, Chad F

    ADAPTIVE RE-USE OF GOTHIC CHURCHES CONVERTED TO MOSQUES BYOTTOMAN EMPIRE AND THEIR ADAPTIVE RE-USES by Ceyda Alcicioglu

    The contiguity between churches and mosques in early Islamic Bilād al-Shām by Mattia Guidetti

    ISLAMIC RULINGS ON WARFARE by Youssef H. Aboul-Enein Sherifa Zuhur ...2004

    Religion and the State in Islam: From Medieval Caliphate to the Muslim Brotherhood by Richard W. Bulliet
     

    Conversion of non-Islamic places of worship into mosques.. wiki

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9713 - August 23, 2020, 02:06 PM

    WHAT DOES QURAN SAY ON CONVERTING OTHER RELIGIOUS  PRAYER PLACES TO MOSQUES ?   I would greatly appreciate any publications and verses you read Quran and and your understanding those verses on that question


    Is there any reason why the Quran should say anything about this? Why should the possibility have even been considered at the time it was written?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9714 - August 23, 2020, 02:47 PM

    zeca picks up words selctively that wrote for Altara and asking questions on that.,
    good stupid Twitter is NOT for serious discussions.. it is just for saying hello to family .. friends..  well wishers and to those who  don't like you  and your views..  

    Quote
    So dear Altara I wonder whether you could help me understanding MY PLOT...  Marc_S says  to me..

    POINT_1:   "I HAD A PLOT AND I LOST THE PLOT .". I am pulling my hair out of their root to figure out my Plot ..  I asked to tell me that plot.. and he says .. read whole folder... so I am asking you same question .. whether you can figure out the plot I have/had  and Marc_s knows .. it ..


    anyways.. I am of the opinion you read Quran inside out. every verse  of every chapter., So   my question to you now is ...

    Quote
    POINT_2:  WHAT DOES QURAN SAY ON CONVERTING OTHER RELIGIOUS  PRAYER PLACES TO MOSQUES ?   I would greatly appreciate any publications and verses you read Quran and and your understanding those verses on that question



    Is there any reason why the Quran should say anything about this? Why should the possibility have even been considered at the time it was written?

    well dear zeca .. you picked up point_2 of that post., That is fine I will answer you .. but for that.. you also need to face  that point-1(THE PLOT POINT) question that I asked Marc and Altara..

    So answer me that . I will answer you that important question of
    Quote
    "Is there any reason why the Quran should say anything about this? Why should the possibility have even been considered at the time it was written?"


    and on that I hoping you have read Quran inside out ,,

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9715 - August 23, 2020, 04:21 PM


    Review of Shoemaker 2018 the Apocalypse of Empire
    van Bladel 2020
    https://www.academia.edu/43541360/van_Bladel_2020_Review_of_Shoemaker_2018_the_Apocalypse_of_Empire
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9716 - August 23, 2020, 07:38 PM

    THE NUMISMATIC EVIDENCE OF THE UMAYYADS AND THEIR OPPONENTS IN KIRMAN (31-84H)

    This article seeks to survey the Arab-Sasanian silver coinage of the region of Kirmān, in order to help fill in the gaps as to who was actually in control of the region during the early Islamic period up to 84H, when the last Arab-Sasanian drachms were struck there. Numismatics can provide an important primary source for history, which is particularly relevant for this period. First, Arab-Sasanian coins are usually dated, contain a mint place abbreviation (albeit not all mint places have been identified), and are in the name of an official. From this, one can get a good idea about who was in control of Kirmān, or at least parts of it, during any specific year. Second, the primary
    written sources which survive are from the third or fourth centuries Hijrī and often contradictory and unreliable. They say little about Kirmān in the first century Hijrī, and indeed some persons named on Arab-Sasanian coins are not noted in the literature to have had positions in Kirmān at all. That said, the numismatic literature is far from perfect. All too often, dates and mint signatures have been misread or misattributed and hence caution should be used in relying upon references which are not backed up by illustrations.

    https://www.academia.edu/43899666/THE_NUMISMATIC_EVIDENCE_OF_THE_UMAYYADS_AND_THEIR_OPPONENTS_IN_KIRMAN_31_84H_

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9717 - August 24, 2020, 08:49 AM

    Interesting review of absence presence of Muhammad's inscriptions: 7 and 8th c.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBdT5L030d0

    Interesting is the inscription in 698  (45'20") where one can see "Masjid al haram" and "Muhammad"...

    Contents:

        The translation of the inscription is:

            Al-Rayyān b. ʿAbdullāh testifies that there is no god but God
            and he testifies that Muḥammad is the Messenger of God.
            then reiterates to those to come to testify to
            that, God have mercy on al-Rayyān.
            May He forgive him and cause him to be guided to the path of Paradise
            and I ask him for marytrdom in his path. A-
            -men. This was written in
            the year the Masjid al-Ḥarām was built
            in the seventy eighth year.



     region of Ḥuma al-Numoor, north west of Ṭāʾif, Saudi Arabia.[1]

    https://www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/haram1.html
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9718 - August 24, 2020, 09:58 AM

    ..............................

        The translation of the inscription is:

            Al-Rayyān b. ʿAbdullāh testifies that there is no god but God
            and he testifies that Muḥammad is the Messenger of God.
            ..............................................
    https://www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/haram1.html

    Hi Altara .. in the context of time period assuming it was transcribed during the time of ʿ"Abd al-Malik b. Marwān " .., did any one write anything from Academic institutions .. WHO  THAT Al-Rayyān b. ʿAbdullāh  was and his relationship with Abd al-Malik b. Marwān??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #9719 - August 24, 2020, 10:16 AM

    To my knowledge, nope.
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