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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

 (Read 1481636 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 238 239 240241 242 ... 369 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7170 - July 24, 2019, 10:25 AM
    Altara,

    Why dont you clarify your post about Eastern Christianity?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7171 - July 24, 2019, 03:47 PM
    Nestorians had the antiquity for them under Ctesiphon. Monophysite are more in the North and the heart of Arabs dwelling is al Hira.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7172 - July 24, 2019, 06:58 PM
    Reading Beck, there seems to be a core of monophysites also in Arabia Petraea? You agree?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7173 - July 24, 2019, 08:04 PM
    Yes, West Arabian Christianity is mainly Monophysite due to the action of Theodora. Nonetheless Petra is relatively near Jerusalem and hold a bishop from Constantinople.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7174 - July 25, 2019, 07:14 AM
    Altara,

    Beck prefers to use anti-chalcedonian Christians because there was no real unity amongst the different factions. He quotes from "Peter the Iberian" that would have set the example of Mohammed's night journey.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7175 - July 25, 2019, 08:09 AM
    This is from a Twitter thread by Sean W. Anthony where he shows to an article by Robert Hoyland  you all know:

    "Reflections on the Identity of the Arabian Conquerors
    of the Seventh-Century Middle East"
    http://www.middleeastmedievalists.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/UW-25-Hoyland.pdf

    In this thread, Marijn van Putten question something:

    "Firstly, the title only appears on coins in southwest Iran,"
    And it appears on hundreds of papyri in Egypt, which I'm sure Hoyland is aware of. Not quite sure what point he is trying to make with that. Are coins different because they are more outwardly addressed?"

    https://twitter.com/shahanSean/status/932083692419342336

    I don't know anything about these papyri from Egypt. Are they important? Is Hoyland writing something wrong?
    I thought that the first time Muhammed is mention in any Muslim sources, except the Quran, was on the coin from Iran in the 680s. Is that wrong?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7176 - July 25, 2019, 09:49 AM
    Quote from: mundi on July 25, 2019, 07:14 AM
    Altara,

    Beck prefers to use anti-chalcedonian Christians because there was no real unity amongst the different factions. He quotes from "Peter the Iberian" that would have set the example of Mohammed's night journey.

    Yes Nestorians and Monophysites were anti-chalcedonian Christians who have flee in the East and remains anti-chalcedonian even if the Persians were doubtful about that. West Monophysite Arabs were not oppressed by Constantinople (at all) and remains more or less the allies of the Romans.
     "Peter the Iberian" : why not. But (for me...) "Mohammed's night journey" does not really deserve an article, it has no importance about the origin of the Quranic text which is (I think, maybe I'm wrong...)
    the topic.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7177 - July 25, 2019, 09:54 AM
    Quote from: Asbjoern1958 on July 25, 2019, 08:09 AM
    This is from a Twitter thread by Sean W. Anthony ...........................................

    "Reflections on the Identity of the Arabian Conquerors
    of the Seventh-Century Middle East"
    http://www.middleeastmedievalists.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/UW-25-Hoyland.pdf

    ......................................

    https://twitter.com/shahanSean/status/932083692419342336

    ..................................................................

    thanks  for that post dear Asbjoern1958.,  that twitter link connected me to Éléonore Cellard  small note https://journals.openedition.org/lettre-cdf/4325  which has a heading  "Une nouvelle contribution à l’histoire du Coran en Égypte au VIIIe siècle : le palimpseste copto-coranique"  i guess that work is describing  Quran in Coptic language...





    i  wonder when and where  Coptic Quran was first published?   and i am curious  some one could translate this  

    Quote
    ...............La tradition islamique rapporte que le texte coranique aurait été définitivement fixé1 quelques années après la conquête de l’Égypte, à l’initiative du calife ‘Uṯmān ibn ‘Affān (r. de 644 à 656). Cependant, l’Égypte ne fit pas partie des garnisons qui reçurent l’un des quatre – ou sept selon les récits – archétypes coraniques2 produits à cette occasion. Privé de son archétype, l’Égypte a-t-elle joué un rôle dans la transmission manuscrite du Coran ?...............


    does  it say Coptic Quran was published in the year around  644 à 656  ??

    with best
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7178 - July 25, 2019, 09:58 AM
    Quote from: Altara on July 25, 2019, 09:49 AM
    ........................."Mohammed's night journey" does not really deserve an article, it has no importance about the origin of the Quranic text which is (I think, maybe I'm wrong...)
    the topic.

    i  fully agree with you...  there are so many useless publications in this Quran investigations........as i said earlier
    Quote from: yeezevee on July 22, 2019, 09:20 PM
      ......................................many folks read one or two verses here and there and try to write publications and books on them .....................  that is unfortunate

    that is nonsense.........
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7179 - July 25, 2019, 10:00 AM
    Quote from: Asbjoern1958 on July 25, 2019, 08:09 AM
    This is from a Twitter thread by Sean W. Anthony where he shows to an article by Robert Hoyland  you all know:

    "Reflections on the Identity of the Arabian Conquerors
    of the Seventh-Century Middle East"
    http://www.middleeastmedievalists.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/UW-25-Hoyland.pdf

    In this thread, Marijn van Putten question something:

    "Firstly, the title only appears on coins in southwest Iran,"
    And it appears on hundreds of papyri in Egypt, which I'm sure Hoyland is aware of. Not quite sure what point he is trying to make with that. Are coins different because they are more outwardly addressed?"

    https://twitter.com/shahanSean/status/932083692419342336

    I don't know anything about these papyri from Egypt. Are they important? Is Hoyland writing something wrong?

    I don't know anything as well. MVP is a linguist (yawn...)

    Quote
    I thought that the first time Muhammed is mention in any Muslim sources, except the Quran, was on the coin from Iran in the 680s. Is that wrong?


    It is right.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7180 - July 25, 2019, 10:02 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on July 25, 2019, 09:54 AM
     i guess that work is describing  Quran in Coptic language...


    Nope. https://www.deepl.com/translator is your friend.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7181 - July 25, 2019, 10:20 AM
    Altara,

    Quote
    "Peter the Iberian" : why not. But (for me...) "Mohammed's night journey" does not really deserve an article, it has no importance about the origin of the Quranic text which is (I think, maybe I'm wrong...)
    the topic.


    The fact that beck tinks 17:1 contains an interpolation inspired by non-Chalcedonians says something about the original milieu of the Quran, no?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7182 - July 25, 2019, 10:54 AM
    Not necessarily, as there are different "inspirations" from multiples doctrinal places in the text. Which one to choose then? Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7183 - July 25, 2019, 12:06 PM
    Quote from: Altara on July 25, 2019, 10:02 AM
    Nope. https://www.deepl.com/translator is your friend.


     thanks.,  glad to note that work is nothing to do with Quran history   but this is good one from you
    Quote from: Altara on July 25, 2019, 10:54 AM
    Not necessarily, as there are different "inspirations" from multiples doctrinal places in the text. Which one to choose then? Wink

     
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7184 - July 25, 2019, 06:45 PM
    Quote from: Asbjoern1958 on July 25, 2019, 08:09 AM
    This is from a Twitter thread by Sean W. Anthony where he shows to an article by Robert Hoyland  you all know:

    "Reflections on the Identity of the Arabian Conquerors
    of the Seventh-Century Middle East"
    http://www.middleeastmedievalists.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/UW-25-Hoyland.pdf

    In this thread, Marijn van Putten question something:

    "Firstly, the title only appears on coins in southwest Iran,"
    And it appears on hundreds of papyri in Egypt, which I'm sure Hoyland is aware of. Not quite sure what point he is trying to make with that. Are coins different because they are more outwardly addressed?"

    https://twitter.com/shahanSean/status/932083692419342336

    I don't know anything about these papyri from Egypt. Are they important? Is Hoyland writing something wrong?
    I thought that the first time Muhammed is mention in any Muslim sources, except the Quran, was on the coin from Iran in the 680s. Is that wrong?


    You just need to unfold MVP tweet ; he is talking about the title amir al mu'minin, not Muhammad.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7185 - July 25, 2019, 07:02 PM
    The IQSA conference is streamed live!

    https://twitter.com/majdanesh/status/1154431082697297920
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7186 - July 25, 2019, 07:16 PM
    Thanks for the response on my comment, Altara, yeezeeve and Marc S.

    MVP writes " And it appears on hundreds of papyri in Egypt". 

    I have seen the link that MVP show to, but I am not able to find out so much of it. Is it hundreds of the title of Muhammad in this link? I can see something written in Greek, but that is from Palestine, not Egypt.
    In 1979 I studied theology for one year but I hardly remember anything from my Greek lessons, but maybe some of you can understand this.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7187 - July 25, 2019, 07:25 PM
    Like I said, it is not about Muhammad but about the title amir al mu'minin that those hundreds of papyri refer to. Then they seem to be having a discussion about Mu'awiya ; I am reading Hoyland's paper so I will let you know if it does clarify their issue.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7188 - July 25, 2019, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: Marc S on July 25, 2019, 06:45 PM
    You just need to unfold MVP tweet ; he is talking about the title amir al mu'minin, not Muhammad.


    Isnt the title amir al mu'minin, well known from the Quran?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7189 - July 25, 2019, 08:12 PM
    Nope.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7190 - July 26, 2019, 08:18 AM
    Conc the Hoyland text:

    Surprised that Muawiyah's name is so scarce in the record...

    https://twitter.com/MayShaddel/status/932380084824047617?s=20
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7191 - July 26, 2019, 08:46 AM
    I'm not (surprised ...) Why would I be? (yawn...)
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7192 - July 26, 2019, 09:55 AM
    Thread: Morris on Dan Gibson

    https://mobile.twitter.com/iandavidmorris/status/1154683354710720513
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7193 - July 26, 2019, 11:26 AM
    I’ll give him this: I think Gibson is sincere. A lot of work went into this book. But he doesn’t know enough to know how little he knows.

    1/ Yes.
    2/ Yes.
    3/ Yes. Like Morris.  Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7194 - July 26, 2019, 11:44 AM
    Quote from: Asbjoern1958 on July 25, 2019, 07:02 PM
    The IQSA conference is streamed live!
    https://twitter.com/majdanesh/status/1154431082697297920

    Just followed Donner. I can testify that he is a great believer.Like Gibson. And Morris (yawn)...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7195 - July 26, 2019, 12:18 PM
    Gibson:

    Gibson taking the Bible at face value is a good beginning to understanding Quranic geography? The authors of the Quran probably did too..
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7196 - July 26, 2019, 12:39 PM
    Morris does not discuss his main thesis. He starts by the beginning.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7197 - July 26, 2019, 12:44 PM
    Zellentin, now:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_YIEdsuIj0
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7198 - July 26, 2019, 01:16 PM
    Middle and late Rabbinic Palestinian traditions (6th c.) (Haha, hahaha, hahahaha, ad infinitum)
    He is not able to give any source about Jews in "Hijaz" and he still believes in Mecca/Zem Zem ! This story has totally circumvented all humans on this planet !
    He knows that it is Palestinian and he continues... to believe !
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #7199 - July 26, 2019, 01:37 PM
    Zellentin:

    I know he gets feels quite strongly about Mecca.  Mecca seems to have a very special place in the heart of a lot of scholars.
  • Previous page 1 ... 238 239 240241 242 ... 369 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »