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Qur'anic studies today
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Theme Changer

 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6510 - April 29, 2019, 07:42 AM

    Quote
    Laïla Nehmé (2018) - The Darb al-Bakrah. A Caravan Route in North-West Arabia Discovered by Ali I. al-Ghabban. Catalogue of the inscriptions.


    Will be most interesting seeing the pre and islamic arabic inscriptions found in the area. Apparently they will publish in next volume.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6511 - April 30, 2019, 09:33 AM

    https://thedebateinitiative.com/2012/10/20/tom-hollands-obsession-with-islams-origins-a-critical-response/

    Pieces such as this sometimes make me re-think the validity and soundness of much of revisionist scholarship, especially concerning the existence and/or relevance the city of Makkah, the Quranic milieu (geography, most notably), early Islam, etc., etc. 


    (Yawn...)...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6512 - May 01, 2019, 02:04 PM

    For more than a century after Jerusalem was brought under Arab hegemony, it is an
    indisputable fact that the official Roman name for the city, Aelia in the Arabic form Īliyā,
    continued in use, as attested by Umayyad coins, seals and milestones.


    Haha, hahaha, hahahaha, etc.

    https://www.academia.edu/38981188/The_Enigma_of_Aelia_%C4%AAliy%C4%81_in_Early_Islam
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6513 - May 01, 2019, 02:09 PM

    What is so funny?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6514 - May 01, 2019, 02:16 PM

    It is a (pagan) name used by who?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6515 - May 01, 2019, 02:17 PM

    I don't know. Christians?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6516 - May 01, 2019, 02:23 PM

     (pagan) name used by Christians?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6517 - May 01, 2019, 02:24 PM

    It was a dumb guess, haha. I really don't know. Sassanians?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6518 - May 01, 2019, 03:24 PM

    And what is the link between Sassanians and Arabs? (Haha, hahaha, hahahaha, etc)
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6519 - May 02, 2019, 11:22 AM

    Ilia as the mint of Jerusalem:

    Lot's of weird coins appeared end 7th C apparently. Some refer to the new Zion, some have 7 or 5 arm menorahs on, some have other biblical symbols. Popp seees that period theologically  in competition with Constantinople... he might be on to something.

    It is still strange why all of a sudden Illia would be used for Jerusalem. As you say Altara, it doesnt match the Zeitgeist.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6520 - May 02, 2019, 12:02 PM

    It is not strange, it is logic. To get it you have to put aside the how the narrative says from where Arabs Umayyad  are. Because it is inexact.
    They are from a place where Jerusalem was called Aelia. The Roman name of the city, before the Christianization of the Empire. Whose  Īliyā is the Arabic form kept by the Umayyad  (they knew no other name). They only knew this one. Because it was the common name where they were. So, who used it, and in what place? Zem zem? (Ha, haha, hahahah, etc.)
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6521 - May 02, 2019, 12:18 PM

    Illia:

    Are we sure Jerusalem is meant here? I am thinking of Ayla which is Aqaba.

    This Illia coin is from end 7th C, plenty of time for Umayyads to get accustomed to Christian/Jewish name wherever they came from
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6522 - May 02, 2019, 12:33 PM

    You think that one mints a coin with the name of a place totally unknown as a mint place and barely known?
    Really?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6523 - May 02, 2019, 12:36 PM


    Do we know all the mints there were?

    But how sure are we that Illia was Jerusalem?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6524 - May 02, 2019, 01:57 PM

    I surrender.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6525 - May 02, 2019, 02:07 PM

    Quote
    And what is the link between Sassanians and Arabs? (Haha, hahaha, hahahaha, etc)


    Please explain. What is the relation between the Arabs and the Sassanians?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6526 - May 02, 2019, 02:17 PM

    what is happening here??  hmm  back to  Zem zem? (Ha, haha, hahahah) ......

    mundi  .. Altara  turns their attention to that good old city ....... Aelia Capitolina.... Aelia.. Iliyā'...Yerushalayim ...Al-Quds... Bayt al-Maqdis.. . from   the god Shalim......the city..the  Jerusalem...Hierousalēm,...Ūrišlem  ... whatever...

    What is their name??  it is just a name..  anyway  let me read mundi  .. Altara posts again..

    Quote
    Ilia as the mint of Jerusalem:

    Lot's of weird coins appeared end 7th C apparently. Some refer to the new Zion, some have 7 or 5 arm menorahs on, some have other biblical symbols. Popp seees that period theologically  in competition with Constantinople... he might be on to something.

    ....................

    Quote
    It is not strange, it is logic. To get it you have to put aside the how the narrative says from where Arabs Umayyad  are. Because it is inexact. They are from a place where Jerusalem was called Aelia.

    The Roman name of the city, before the Christianization of the Empire. Whose  Īliyā is the Arabic form kept by the Umayyad  (they knew no other name). They only knew this one. Because it was the common name where they were. So, who used it, and in what place? Zem zem? (Ha, haha, hahahah, etc.)



    So on those highlighted words of Altara  post  
    Quote
    "They are from a place where Jerusalem was called Aelia."

    who are "THEY" dear Altara ?
    Are you saying "Umayyads" were actually from that city itself??

    If you consider Umayyad Caliphates   were   from Jerusalem., then I wonder about these guys  "Muawiya I., Yazid I ., Muawiya II"

    Who were they ? who were their parents....pets.. wives.. children??  Are they products of Roman-Arab Pagans?? or Roman-Jewish folks??

    that will be a new history on the  origin of Islam WITHOUT PROPHET OF ISLAM "Muhammad"

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6527 - May 02, 2019, 02:22 PM

    Persian Arabs (per Popp-ish)?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6528 - May 02, 2019, 02:25 PM

    Do we know all the mints there were?

    But how sure are we that Illia was Jerusalem?

    dear mundi the folks were minting the coins in that city before the  birth of Prophet of Islam's Story .. and before the  birth of  Prophet of Christianity story...

    THAT GREAT GREEK minted coins all over middle east and south east Asia   and that was before the birth of Christianity and Islam  and some were minted in  Jerusalem..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6529 - May 02, 2019, 03:48 PM

    Illia:

    Apparently you guys knew all about Illia and I didnt  wacko

    It is strange that arabs/muslims were the only ones to use the name that was abolished 3 centuries before and that no one was using anymore except them.

    So indeed, where did these umayyads come from? Mars?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6530 - May 02, 2019, 04:41 PM

    Persian Arabs (yawn...)
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6531 - May 02, 2019, 06:14 PM

    Quote


    well why not??  use of that word is OK as long as it is used  OUT OF ISLAM & as long as we use other words such as .. Jewish Arabs., Christian Arabs.. Roman Arabs.. Egyptian Arabs.. Ethiopian Arabs .. Pagan Arabs.. Yemen Arabs... Syrian Arabs... Armenian Arabs etc..etc.. along with   .."The Persian Arab"..  After all these lands were NOT isolated  and any one walk can  through them in a month or so at any time .,  Middle East was/is  not  like AmrikI.. or EnglandI   with oceans of waters isolated from other patch of other lands on earth..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6532 - May 03, 2019, 08:19 AM

    Can anybody tell me what was so wrong with Hagarism by Crone and Cook? Did they use the sources in the wrong way or was their conclusions not political correct?
    Sean Anthony and Michael Pregill comment on it in this twitter thread:https://twitter.com/jilliantheresas/status/1123955104992854016
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6533 - May 03, 2019, 09:08 AM

    No twitter account, copy-paste here...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6534 - May 03, 2019, 09:34 AM

    Can anybody tell me what was so wrong with Hagarism by Crone and Cook? Did they use the sources in the wrong way or was their conclusions not political correct?
    Sean Anthony and Michael Pregill comment on it in this twitter thread:https://twitter.com/jilliantheresas/status/1123955104992854016



    https://twitter.com/shahanSean

    Anthony  learned the subject of "How to conduct objective investigation on early Islamic history"  from working with dr.  Crone as her student...  he would be a stupd to forget that and criticize that book  without properly reading and analyzing what the book is saying...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6535 - May 03, 2019, 12:13 PM

    Bjorn:

    I don't see any criticism from S. Anthony in the link you posted...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6536 - May 03, 2019, 12:15 PM

    Thanks to copy paste what they said...

    Altara  whom are you thanking there?? I am going to thank you if you could watch this  and tell what is right and what is wrong with his talk WITH REFERENCE O FAITH ISLAM

    again only w.r.t faith....

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6537 - May 03, 2019, 01:18 PM

    New book ??  booklet in the town...


    Quote
    dr.  Richard W. Bulliet    is a professor of history at Columbia University who specializes in the history of Islamic society and institutions, the history of technology, and the history of the role of animals in human society  since 1976..   

     Several of his books focus on Iran but deal also with the larger Muslim world, including The Patricians of Nishapur: a Study in Medieval Islamic History (1972), Conversion to Islam in the Medieval Period: An Essay in Quantitative History (1979), and Islam: the View from the Edge (1994). His books on a broader view of Islamic history and society include Under Siege: Islam and Democracy (1994) and The Case for Islamo-Christian Civilization (2004). His book The Camel and the Wheel (1975) brings together his interest in the histories of technology, animal domestication, and the Middle East, dealing for example with the significant military advantage early Muslim armies gained from a slight improvement in the design of cloth camel saddles.[citation needed] He would return to the history of animal domestication with his Hunters, Herders, and Hamburgers: The Past and Future of Human-Animal Relationships (2005).


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6538 - May 03, 2019, 03:16 PM

    Religion and the State in Islam:  From Medieval Caliphate to the Muslim Brotherhood  by Richard W. Bulliet

    that is a fascinating 22 page publication from dr. Bulliet with the exception of this one sentence i crossed out in this first paragraph of  his  paper..

    Quote
    First let me introduce the notion of the history of the Muslim South. We sometimes use the term Global South as a conceptual tool to talk about the world’s  poor countries as opposed to its rich countries. The term Muslim South is something like that. It refers to every place in the world where Muslims live south of the 25 degrees North latitude of Medina, where the Prophet Muhammad moved to Medina from Mecca in 622.



    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #6539 - May 03, 2019, 08:12 PM

    Mundi

    "Bjorn:

    I don't see any criticism from S. Anthony in the link you posted..."

    You are probably correct on that, but why does Pregill talk about the "C&C Revisionism Factory"? It is not a respectful way of speaking about other colleagues.
    As I have understood, most western researchers are to some degree " revisionistic". Crone was skeptical to the sira and hadith traditions. Both Hoyland and Donner hardly use them in their work.
    Crone and Cook decided to use non- Islamic more contemporary sources to describe Islam. Hoyland does the same In Gods Path. He says he is not excluding Islamic sources, but he hardly use them because they are written down too late. He prefer contemporary sources. That is close to how a scientist should work. Why is it then so controversial?
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