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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

 (Read 358163 times)
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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5310 - February 14, 2019, 09:09 PM

    Luxenberg on Isa:

    Dye in his article doesnt find him convincing on Isa. He respects Luxenberg and examines his readings on merit. So I'll put my money on Dye this time.


    that is OK  but on the origins of that word   "Isa"  I would say  Luxenberg close to reality than that Dye opinion in his article.

    so what do you guys think about this guy... what he says in this video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDslY-zEB_o

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5311 - February 14, 2019, 09:14 PM

    well let me add this book here


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5312 - February 14, 2019, 09:18 PM

    yeezewee, thanks a lot for those interesting links. I am reading.

    But can you be specific, what is wrong with Van Putten?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5313 - February 14, 2019, 09:31 PM

    Quote
    Asbjoern1958:

    yeezevee, ..............

    But can you be specific, what is wrong with Van Putten?


    No no there is nothing wrong with Van Putten dear Asbjoern.,

     I just said  "HE IS NO SCIENTIST"  and may be .. being a faculty member he should be more careful on what he writes on social media

    but that is my opinion

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5314 - February 14, 2019, 10:04 PM

    Sam Gerrans is a complete hack.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5315 - February 14, 2019, 10:46 PM

    Quote
    Sam Gerrans is a complete hack.  says   Mahgraye


    Hack??  hack of what?  why dear Mahgraye?  He is such an intelligent guy    done lot of work on variety of subjects from Quran  to geology..to biology ,to , heavenology  ..to...t.o...to.....earth is flatology  and what not





    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN6qEweTpP0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP8QfiE9sxo




    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5316 - February 14, 2019, 11:12 PM

    Did not know that he believes that the earth is flat. Interesting.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5317 - February 14, 2019, 11:24 PM

    Quote
    Mahgraye:    Did not know that he believes that the earth is flat. Interesting.

    well let us not worry about believers .. They do not use their brain., they are storing and hiding it for specific purpose n their lives

    anyways  I wonder whether you read through this Quran commentary link   i added at
     
    https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=19495.msg881659#msg881659

    Interesting conference work .,   Are you there in that picture on PAGE 6..??

    I am sure you know many guys you see in that

    with best regards
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5318 - February 14, 2019, 11:26 PM

    Yes, I am familiar with the book and have read parts of it. Very interesting. And no, I am not in the picture, haha. But yes, I do recognize those in the picture.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5319 - February 14, 2019, 11:43 PM

    Quote
    Yes, I am familiar with the book and have read parts of it. Very interesting. And no, I am not in the picture, haha. But yes, I do recognize those in the picture.

    well you are so active in the field ..you must attend such conferences ..

    So just curious   did you read Quran in its totality all 114 chapters??

    you know i go around different forums to chat about  Quran  reading such as

     http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/forum/the-holy-quran/16757-quran-translation-by-m-abdel-haleem

    https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235009019-what-english-quran-is-the-best/

    and in that conference they used Muhammad Abdel Haleem Quran translation for choosing specific verses..



    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5320 - February 14, 2019, 11:49 PM

    Quote
    well you are so active in the field ..you must attend such conferences ..


    Unfortunately, I do not attend any conferences nor am I active in the field.

    Quote
    So just curious   did you read Quran in its totality all 114 chapters??


    Only parts, not in full. I may have listened to it in its entirety. But I do read it every now and then. I will probably start to read again soon. Not that long ago I finished the second chapter (reading it from the beginning).
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5321 - February 15, 2019, 09:56 AM

    well you are so active in the field ..you must attend such conferences ..

    So just curious   did you read Quran in its totality all 114 chapters??


    Thanks for the Haleem, I did not have it.

    Reading passage (s) of the Quran, each time, it corroborates and validates, what I have "discovered" (1 big year ago) in working on it and "found" whereas I did not specifically search what I "found".  I searched nothing, just observing some specific things. Now I smile each time reading, admiring the craft of the author(s). Slowly, unbeknownst to me, the pieces of the puzzle were posed  (as for any scholar... but without a paradigm installed before in my mind about it.) A later operation  (that I won't detail here) allows to advance and to understand. My method is always the same : logic, rationality and sources without any paradigm in mind, meaning that I put aside the paradigm that the Quran poses itself : it is a divine communication of the Biblical God, it has to be believed in each word/passage.
    The first thing is to not believe it.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5322 - February 15, 2019, 10:13 AM

    Quote
    Thanks for the Haleem, I did not have it.[/u]

    Quote
    Reading passage (s) of the Quran, each time, it corroborates and validates, what I have "discovered" (1 big year ago) in working on it and "found" whereas I did not specifically search what I "found".  I searched nothing, just observing some specific things. Now I smile each time reading, admiring the craft of the author(s). Slowly, unbeknownst to me, the pieces of the puzzle were posed  (as for any scholar... but without a paradigm installed before in my mind about it.) A later operation  (that I won't detail here) allows to advance and to understand. My method is always the same : logic, rationality and sources without any paradigm in mind, meaning that I put aside the paradigm that the Quran poses itself : as it is a divine communication of the Biblical God, it has to be believed in each word/passage.
    The first thing is to not believing i
    t


    hi Altara.,   please down load the pdf file of the book attached in to that Jpeg picture in that post by clicking it.,  what you said on reading  is fascinating.,  for the past 20 years I have read Quran innumerable times and i used to sing songs from Quran verses when i was child because of my grand parents ..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

     

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5323 - February 15, 2019, 11:47 AM

    It is interesting that  what you qualifies as "fascinating" I consider it  as "normal", because I've always had this attitude toward "discourse " whatever it is. Especially auto referential one, which explains to its reader what to think about it : Q 2,2 : 2 This is the Scripture in which there is no doubt,
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5324 - February 15, 2019, 04:57 PM

    reading the Quran:

    I think your survey is interesting Yeez! Are you and Altara the only one here having read the whole thing? It seems to be such a drag that even people who are extremely interested don't manage the task. But yet plenty of scholars think it is absolutely possible that the complete oeuvre was perfectly transmitted by memory for decades...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5325 - February 15, 2019, 08:45 PM

    Thousands have and still do memorize the Quran. Maybe your comment is more applicable to the formative period.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5326 - February 15, 2019, 08:48 PM

    How many here agree with Markus Gross that the Arabic Allāh is borrowed from the West Syriac Alāhā? If you disagree, what is then your own explanation for the origin of the word in question?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5327 - February 15, 2019, 10:20 PM

    Quote
    Mahgraye: How many here agree with Markus Gross that the Arabic Allāh is borrowed from the West Syriac Alāhā? If you disagree, what is then your own explanation for the origin of the word in question?


    I don't think anyone disagrees with that but by saying that.,  are  you also saying part Quranic verses also come from West Syria??     and what is west Syria??  Lebanon and Israel??

    Then west Syriac folks must have borrowed that word from other place..   Allāh is a Arabic word for god in the middle east much before Islam and much before NT Christianity...  and that must have come from that root word which may have come from Hebrew and/or  Aramaic

     
    Quote
    .........The word is thought to be derived by contraction from al-ilāh, which means "the god", and is related to El and Elah, the Hebrew and Aramaic words for God...


    well why Markus Gross??  people said that before the birth of Markus Gross.....   lol.. So you said  about Quran
    Quote
    Only parts, not in full. I may have listened to it in its entirety. But I do read it every now and then. I will probably start to read again soon. Not that long ago I finished the second chapter (reading it from the beginning).


    That is stunning .. you have NOT read Quran  but you have heard all 114 chapters.,  How did you do that?  did you attend a Mosque  classes  where imams/mullahs   teach Quran for  students??


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCwYq40pPBw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfYj1IzA52A


    scoundrels  ..  beat kids for memorizing nonsense

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5328 - February 15, 2019, 10:26 PM

    Thousands have and still do memorize the Quran. Maybe your comment is more applicable to the formative period.


    that is indeed true... It happens quite often in schools that are run by mosques

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5329 - February 15, 2019, 10:39 PM

    Yeah. A very impressive feat. Even more impressive are those who memorize hadith, as they actually memorize entire collection together with the chain of transmission and the defects too. A joy to listen to.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5330 - February 15, 2019, 10:43 PM

    I have read parts of the Quran several times. I only haven't read it systematically from the first page onwards. That I started some time ago and have now finished the second chapter and currently am on page 59/60, sūrat Āl ʿImrān. A unique experience as one constantly is reminded of Quranic Studies when coming across certain verses and words.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5331 - February 15, 2019, 10:45 PM

    Quote
    Yeah. A very impressive feat. Even more impressive are those who memorize hadith, as they actually memorize entire collection together with the chain of transmission and the defects too. A joy to listen to.

    well    you mean to say     "they actually memorize  hadith, the entire collection together with the chain of transmission and the defects too. A joy to listen to"
      
    and it is joy to listen to Songs/sonnets  made up from  Hadith ?  or are you mixing up hadith  with  Quran.. ??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5332 - February 15, 2019, 10:51 PM

    I have read parts of the Quran several times. I only haven't read it systematically from the first page onwards. That I started some time ago and have now finished the second chapter and currently am on page 59/60, sūrat Āl ʿImrān. A unique experience as one constantly is reminded of Quranic Studies when coming across certain verses and words.


    that is wonderful.,  i  read

    Quote
    1     96     Alaq         19     Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    2    68    Qalam    52    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    3    73    Muzammil    20    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    4    74    Mudathir    56    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    5    1    Fatehah    7    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    6    111    Lahab    5    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    7    81    Takwir    29    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    8    87    A'la       19    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    9    92    Leyl       21    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    10    89    Fajr       30    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    11    93    Duha       11    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    12    94    Inshira    8    Macca
    13    103    Asr       3    Macca
    14    100    Aadiyat    11    Macca
    15    108    Kauthar    3    Macca
    16    102    Takatur    8    Macca
    17    107    Alma'un    7    Macca
    18    109    Kafirun    6    Macca
    19    105    Fil       5    Macca
    20    113    Falaq    5    Macca
    21    114    Nas       6    Macca
    22    112    Iklas       4    Macca
    23    53    Najm       62    Macca
    24    80    Abasa    42    Macca
    25    97    Qadr       5    Macca
    26    91    Shams    15    Macca
    27    85    Buruj       22    Macca
    28    95    T'in       8    Macca
    29    106    Qureysh    4    Macca
    30    101    Qariah    11    Macca
    31    75    Qiyamah    40    Meccan 
    32    104    Humazah    9    Macca
    33    77    Mursalat    50    Macca
    34    50    Q'af       45    Macca
    35    90    Balad    20    Macca
    36    86    Tariq       17    Macca
    37    54    Qamr       55    Meccan sura 5th and 6th year of Prophet's mission
    38    38    Sad       88    Macca
    39    7    A'Raf       206    Macca
    40    72    Jinn       28    Meccan sura 5th and 6th year of Prophet's mission
    41    36    Ya'sin    83    Macca
    42    25    Furqan    77    Macca
    43    35    Fatir       45    Macca
    44    19    Maryam    98    Macca
    45    20    Ta Ha    135    Macca
    46    56    Waqiah    96    Macca
    47    26    Shuara    227    Macca
    48    27    Naml       93    Macca
    49    28    Qasas    88    Macca
    50    17    Bani Israil    111    Macca
    51    10    Yunus    109    Macca
    52    11    Hud       123    Macca

    53    12    Yousuf    111    Macca
    54    15    Hijr       99    Macca
    55    6    Anam    165    Macca
    56    37    Saffat    182    Macca
    57    31    Luqman    34    Macca
    58    34    Saba       54    Macca
    59    39    Zumar    75    Macca
    60    40    Mumin    85    Macca
    61    41    Hamim Sajdah 54    Macca
    62    42    Shura    53    Macca
    63    43    Zukhruf    89    Macca
    64    44    Dukhan    59    Macca
    65    45    Jathiyah    37    Macca
    66    46    Ahqaf    35    Macca
    67    51    Dhariyat    60    Macca
    68    88    Ghashiya    26    Madina
    69    18    Kahf       110    Macca
    70    16    Nahl       128    Macca
    71    71    Noah       28    Meccan sura 5th and 6th year of Prophet's mission
    72    14    Ibrahim    52    Macca
    73    21    Anbiya    112    Macca
    74    23    Muminun    118    Macca
    75    32    Sajdah    30    Macca
    76    52    Tur       49    Macca
    77    67    Mulk       30    Macca
    78    69    Haqqah    52    Macca
    79    70    Maarij    44    Macca
    80    78    Naba       40    Macca
    81    79    Naziat    46    Macca
    82    82    Infitar    19    Macca
    83    84    Inshiqaq    25    Macca
    84    30    Rum       60    Macca
    85    29    Ankabut    85    Macca
    86    83    Tatfif    36    Macca
    87    2    Baqarah    286    Madina
    88    8    Anfal       75    Madina
    89    3    Aal-e-Imran 200    Madina
    90    33    Ahzab    73    Madina
    91    60    Mumtahana 13    Madina
    92    4    Nisa       176    Madina
    93    99    Zilzal       8    Macca
    94    57    Hadid    29    Madina
    95    47    Muhammad    38    Madina
    96    13    Ra'd       43    Madina
    97    55    Rahman    78    Meccan 
    98    76    Dahr       31    Meccan sura 5th and 6th year of Prophet's mission
    99    65    Talaq    12    Madina
    100    98    Beyinnah    8    Madina
    101    59    Hashr    24    Madina
    102    24    Nur       64    Madina
    103    22    Hajj       78    Madina
    104    63    Munafiqun    11    Madina
    105    58    Mujadila    22    Madina
    106    49    Hujurat    18    Madina
    107    66    Tahrim    12    Madina
    108    64    Taghabun    18    Madina
    109    61    Saff       14    Madina
    110    62    Jumah    11    Madina
    111    48    Fath       29    Madina
    112    5    Maidah    120    Madina
    113    9    Taubah    129    Madina
    114    110    Nasr       3    Madina

     
    2nd col=Surah number in the book or compilation order..
    3rd col= Surah name
    4th col= total number of verses
    5th col=  where it is revealed

     all those highlighted Surahs    in this forum itself...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5333 - February 15, 2019, 10:53 PM

    Damn. A lot of the names are very familiar. I might have read more than I thought, haha.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5334 - February 15, 2019, 11:01 PM

    Quote
    Damn. A lot of the names are very familiar. I might have read more than I thought, haha.


    well  there is actually a problem in reading Quran verse number by verse number .. it gets  boring as mundi pointed out..   One need to have lot of patience .. but hearing it is OK.. 

    There are couple of Quran books   such as the one you see in this post

    https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=27568.msg881665#msg881665

    which makes Quran reading easy..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5335 - February 15, 2019, 11:03 PM

    Thanks. The problem is that I have always read the Quran in Arabic and continue to do so. Can't be done in another way. I do, however, consult translations. Very useful.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5336 - February 15, 2019, 11:10 PM

    Quote
    Thanks. The problem is that I have always read the Quran in Arabic and continue to do so. Can't be done in another way.

    well  by saying that you are saying you are thorough in Arabic language...  i wonder why you using that nick name  "Mahgraye"  ..  i posted this  with your nick

    Quote
    We find further corroboration for this direction of prayer by the Christian writer and traveler Jacob of Edessa, who, writing as late as 705 was a contemporary eye-witness in Egypt . He maintained that the Mahgraye (Greek name for Saracens) in Egypt prayed facing east and not south or south-east. His letter (still found in the British Museum ) is indeed revealing.

      in to a forum some 10 years ago lol..

    anyway if you are thorough in Arabic
    Quote
    I do, however, consult translations. Very useful.

    why do you need to read translations?  and whose translation you think is closest to bookish Arabic Quran??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5337 - February 16, 2019, 08:01 AM

    Quote
    He maintained that the Mahgraye (Greek name for Saracens)


    Syriac name, not Greek. Transliteration of "muhajirun" not Saracens.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5338 - February 16, 2019, 10:47 AM

    Quote
    Syriac name, not Greek. Transliteration of "muhajirun" not Saracens.

    Oh!.. thanks.,   Now I wonder about the origin of that word?  Is it Arabic or it is also there in some Aramaic  or in Hebrew ??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5339 - February 16, 2019, 12:40 PM

    muhajirun is a Quranic neologism interpreted by later Muslim 9th narratives in the frame Mecca/Medina/Kaba. I have, of course, an understanding of it,  (that I won't detail here) grounded in sources and etymology of the therm, which is easily findable. It is of course out of the frame described 200 years later by the Muslim narrative. A discourse, just after it emerges, is understandable because of the conditions which have presided its emergence, these condition are logically in the past.
    What you are now is not because of your future (hahaha!). But because of your past.
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