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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3090 - August 14, 2018, 06:33 AM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 02:15 AM
    Does the Quran affirm the second coming of Jesus? Sources would be appreciated.


    Nope (hahaha!)
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3091 - August 14, 2018, 06:52 AM
    Nabatean script:

    Can we conclude that
    1/ During the Nabatean Kingdom, the language which was used when writing the Nabatean script was an Aramaic dialect?
    2/ Later on, the Nabatean script was also used to write other languages, Arabic being one of them?

    Question: Why would anyone still have bothered to use the Nabatean script after the Kingdom was gone? Why not use any of the other scripts that must have been more prestigious or more modern (eg arabic script). Who kept the Nabatean script alive after the demise of the Kingdom, what was the benefit using it?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3092 - August 14, 2018, 07:14 AM
    1/ the language used in the inscriptions, in the Nabatean script  was Aramaic
    2/ Yes. Their mother tongue : Arabic.
    3/ It is all the issue : genuine Nabatean script ALONE  is it at the origin of Arabic script of : https://www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/zebed.html ? or this 512 Arabic script is influenced by Syriac script ? I hold the second solution : https://www.lexilogos.com/keyboard/syriac.htm
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3093 - August 14, 2018, 07:33 AM
    Altara,

    I see your point. I remember that article you shared of the French scholar arguing that the Arabic has the base line in common with Syriac and not with Nabatean. So Arabic is really more influenced by the former.

    I agree that seeing this gradual evolution from Nabatean to Arabic is far fetched. Much more likely it seems to me is that some guys in a monastery long time ago decided what the Arabic script would look like, and of course they were influenced by what scripts they already knew. This script was taught in educational/religious centers and spread like that. On top of that, a natural evolution comes into effect too. I think mostly that that is how all scripts emerged and evolved. Trying to find a continuum with another existing script is not really convincing.

    You link to the Syriac script site. Besides it being a lot of fun, what is t you want to prove with that?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3094 - August 14, 2018, 09:14 AM
    Not "more". Influenced, that's all. Jallad et al. want that it be genuine from Arabs Nabatean script because they want absolutely nothing of foreign to "Arabs" ; Islam must be genuine Arabic .

    I agree that seeing this gradual evolution from Nabatean to Arabic is far fetched.

    Of course it is. But they say the contrary, for them it is granted! the Quranic script is  coming from  Nabatean script, end of story.
    But the "transition"  they do not explain it. From where it comes? From Heaven, like the Quran? Hahaha!

    All the North Arabic script (which are clearly just before the Quranic script) inscriptions we have from 470 to 568 are under the cultural sign of Christianity whose the script is Syriac.

    But the Quran is Arabic? Aaron is Arab? Jesus is Arab? Moses is Arab? Abraham maybe? (Hahaha!)

    Listen to Guillaume Dye (in French!) : https://youtu.be/XELIg_Aycm4
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3095 - August 14, 2018, 09:56 AM
    Dye:

    Interesting!
    He ends with the question of the contrast between theChristian material in the Quran and the Hijaz. I thought Dye was a Mecca believer?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3096 - August 14, 2018, 10:02 AM
    Quote
    He ends with the question of the contrast between theChristian material in the Quran and the Hijaz.


    He poses the good questions.

    Quote
    I thought Dye was a Mecca believer?


    You have the response.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3097 - August 14, 2018, 10:03 AM
    Dye: I guess he doesnt "believe"in Mecca anymore? Without evidence there is no reason to believe in Mecca?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3098 - August 14, 2018, 10:30 AM
    Quote from: Altara on August 14, 2018, 09:14 AM
    ..............
     Quran is Arabic? Aaron is Arab? Jesus is Arab? Moses is Arab? Abraham maybe  
    ..................

     well that doesn't sound good  let me change a bit

      Quran is Arabic? Aaron is Arab? Jesus is Arab? Moses is Arab? Abraham ..Hahaha!  

    fools read very little from Quran  and  whatever little they read  from it ,  they don't use their brain to think the reasons for some one to write a book like that..  well here you go

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3099 - August 14, 2018, 10:47 AM
    Quote
    Dye: I guess he doesnt "believe"in Mecca anymore? Without evidence there is no reason to believe in Mecca?




    1/ I do not know
    2/ It seems.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3100 - August 14, 2018, 01:24 PM
    Quote
    Nope (hahaha!)


    Why not, dear Altara? You seem to be very confident on this issue.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3101 - August 14, 2018, 01:30 PM
    Altara - Recently I had a discussion with a scholar on some matters brought up in this group. You famously say that there is nothing in the Hijaz. Could you please elaborate on that point on a scholarly manner? Which period are then referring to? Do you mean there are not inscriptions in Arabic in the Hijaz prior to AH 82? Because the scholar I was talking with said there are referenced Imbert and the following article by islamic-awareness.org: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamic-awareness.org%2Fhistory%2Fislam%2Finscriptions%2F&h=AT0w9utR3NR7a42YQJGhetH7AQb6NXRdu9RPMo-7-ffiAmS_dBwOPm15p6Oqi8jvYVe1gvOXeTr18Alx05JuL4uME4rJF407wpQC39XHO-e7jPeOMYNnCqsVVSwwekE_TE0N2A

    Not sure how to respond.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3102 - August 14, 2018, 01:44 PM
    Hmm  this is good

    Quote
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 02:15 AM
    Does the Quran affirm the second coming of Jesus? Sources would be appreciated.

    Quote from: Altara on August 14, 2018, 06:33 AM
    Nope (hahaha!)

    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 01:24 PM
    Why not, dear Altara? You seem to be very confident on this issue.



    Hello Mahgraye  forget Altara.,    how about you?

    do you believe the second coming of Jesus? and if you do., then why do you believe that?

    with best wishes
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3103 - August 14, 2018, 01:51 PM
    Hi, dear Yeezevee. To be honest, I think I do beleive in the second coming of Jesus. Makes perfect sense. As I wrote earlier, the Qurʾān came about in a monotheistic milieu. A Christian milieu, to be precise. The Qurʾān is dependent on several Syriac Christian texts; it mention the Nativity; Jesus' Messiaship, etc. That he would return makes sense to me. Take 43:61 as an example, were a alternative reading of the verse makes Jesus out to be “a sign (ʿalam) of the Hour.”
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3104 - August 14, 2018, 01:57 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 02:15 AM
    Does the Quran affirm the second coming of Jesus? Sources would be appreciated.


    Quote
    https://www.islamicity.org/5640/jesus-will-return/

    https://www.alislam.org/library/articles/demystifying-the-second-coming/

    https://avirtuouswoman.org/second-coming-part-one/

    https://www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/


    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 01:51 PM
    Hi, dear Yeezevee. ,,

    To be honest, I think I do beleive in the second coming of Jesus. Makes perfect sense......   As I wrote earlier, the Qurʾān came about in a monotheistic milieu. A Christian milieu, to be precise. The Qurʾān is dependent on several Syriac Christian texts; it mention the Nativity; Jesus' Messiaship, etc. That he would return makes sense to me. Take 43:61 as an example, were a alternative reading of the verse makes Jesus out to be “a sign (ʿalam) of the Hour.”

    OK dear Mahgraye   and your words hidden that code are of no use ., but that is statement is important to explore

    So.. when will Jesus come?  and from which country and in what form?  as a guy or girl??  and you believe it because of that verse 43:61
    Quote
    Take 43:61 as an example, were a alternative reading of the verse makes Jesus out to be “a sign (ʿalam) of the Hour.”


    those words from you makes me to say that you believe because of  43:61 ., am I wrong??  

    Quote
    Quote
    43: 61.   And most surely it is a knowledge of the hour, therefore have no doubt about it and follow me: this is the right path.


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3105 - August 14, 2018, 01:58 PM
    Q 4:159 is another good example of this. As Gallez and others have shown, “People of the Scripture“ does not designate Christians and Muslims, but only Jews. Who are those who rejected Jesus? Surely they are not Christians and Muslims, are they? Of course not. And as you may have guessed, they are not other than the Jews. The verse says that “People of the Scripture“ (i.e. the Jews) will believe in Jesus before their death; and that Jesus will testify against them on the Day of Judgement.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3106 - August 14, 2018, 01:59 PM
    Dear Yeezevee, I made another comment just now. Please read it as well.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3107 - August 14, 2018, 01:59 PM
    Will post it again:

    Q 4:159 is another good example of this. As Gallez and others have shown, “People of the Scripture“ does not designate Christians and Muslims, but only Jews. Who are those who rejected Jesus? Surely they are not Christians and Muslims, are they? Of course not. And as you may have guessed, they are none other than the Jews. The verse says that “People of the Scripture“ (i.e. the Jews) will believe in Jesus before their death; and that Jesus will testify against them on the Day of Judgement.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3108 - August 14, 2018, 02:04 PM
     
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 01:59 PM
    Will post it again:

    Q 4:159 is another good example of this.

    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 01:59 PM
    Dear Yeezevee, I made another comment just now. Please read it as well.

    I will .. I will ., I will read everything you write dear Mahgraye..   good ...good... so 4:159 and 43:61

    Quote
    4:159.   And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Isa) shall be a witness against them.

    43: 61.   And most surely it is a knowledge of the hour, therefore have no doubt about it and follow me: this is the right path.


    only two verses??  Incidentally I have crossed out that word" ISA"  from  4:159 because it is NOT there in Quran
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3109 - August 14, 2018, 02:19 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 01:24 PM
    Why not, dear Altara? You seem to be very confident on this issue.


    Find it!
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3110 - August 14, 2018, 02:25 PM


    Not sure how to respond.
    [/quote]
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 01:30 PM
    Altara - Recently I had a discussion with a scholar on some matters brought up in this group. You famously say that there is nothing in the Hijaz. Could you please elaborate on that point on a scholarly manner? Which period are then referring to? Do you mean there are not inscriptions in Arabic in the Hijaz prior to AH 82? Because the scholar I was talking with said there are referenced Imbert and the following article by islamic-awareness.org: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamic-awareness.org%2Fhistory%2Fislam%2Finscriptions%2F&h=AT0w9utR3NR7a42YQJGhetH7AQb6NXRdu9RPMo-7-ffiAmS_dBwOPm15p6Oqi8jvYVe1gvOXeTr18Alx05JuL4uME4rJF407wpQC39XHO-e7jPeOMYNnCqsVVSwwekE_TE0N2A

    Not sure how to respond.


    There is no pre Islamic dated (or not) inscription in the Hijaz attesting "prophet/Medina/Kaba/Abu Bakr/Zem Zem/Khalid ibn Walid, etc." Ask your scholar.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3111 - August 14, 2018, 02:28 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 01:58 PM
    Q 4:159 is another good example of this. As Gallez and others have shown, “People of the Scripture“ does not designate Christians and Muslims, but only Jews. Who are those who rejected Jesus? Surely they are not Christians and Muslims, are they? Of course not. And as you may have guessed, they are not other than the Jews. The verse says that “People of the Scripture“ (i.e. the Jews) will believe in Jesus before their death; and that Jesus will testify against them on the Day of Judgement.


    In Heaven (yawn)...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3112 - August 14, 2018, 02:31 PM
    Please elaborate. Have you read Reynolds and Anthony on this issue?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3113 - August 14, 2018, 02:32 PM
    Do you guys think that Q 9:31 affirms the divinity of Jesus? There is a reasonable case for that.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3114 - August 14, 2018, 03:12 PM
    Magrayye,

    9:31
    So son of Mary is the holy Ghost here? So we have the monks opposed to the trinity?  Well, the English translation would work better that way. Dont know about the Arabic.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3115 - August 14, 2018, 03:34 PM
    No. Son of Mary is Jesus. You are probably thinking about 5:116 were some scholars argue that "mother" is another word for the Holy Ghost.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3116 - August 14, 2018, 03:34 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 02:31 PM
    Please elaborate. Have you read Reynolds and Anthony on this issue?


    On the return of Jesus announced in the Quran? I do not need  Reynolds or Anthony dear Mahgraye, I only need my eyes and the Quran. And I confirm that there is no announce of the coming of Jesus in the Quran. In the 9th historiographers, of course they draw from Revelations.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3117 - August 14, 2018, 03:39 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 14, 2018, 01:58 PM
    Q 4:159 is another good example of this. As Gallez and others have shown, “People of the Scripture“ does not designate Christians and Muslims, but only Jews. Who are those who rejected Jesus? Surely they are not Christians and Muslims, are they? Of course not. And as you may have guessed, they are not other than the Jews. The verse says that “People of the Scripture“ (i.e. the Jews) will believe in Jesus before their death; and that Jesus will testify against them on the Day of Judgement.


    I did not read  Reynolds or Anthony about that specific topic. Because it is not a topic really interesting (for me...) The Quran would be  evangelical Protestantism? Why not... Huh?  Cheesy
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3118 - August 14, 2018, 03:43 PM
    Maggraye,

    on 9:31,

    Yes I was mixing up this mother thing for Holy Ghost. But my comment remains even more so. In English the alternative reading makes a lot more sense than the traditional one.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3119 - August 14, 2018, 04:10 PM
    Quote
    In English the alternative reading makes a lot more sense than the traditional one.


    And the reading is ?
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