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Qur'anic studies today
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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1890 - April 07, 2018, 01:52 PM

    Ask people in this thread, if they believe to the traditional account  

      
    hu! ask  that question everyone in this folder?? it  is as good as you asking  me "RUN  IN CIRCLES"   until I  fall  down  Altara.,   I  do not  think they believe in traditional Islamic story  but they are looking for some one  to help them out of traditional account..  So they ask questions ..
    Quote
     : the great rich and famous city of "Mecca" before Islam, in the lunar barren landscape of the Western peninsula, departure of the conquest,  where the so called "Prophet Muhammad" has lived ............

    I am just curious on that., did any Academics like that  99% of your list  wrote  any book any account  on pre-Islamic Mecca?? Any  literature on that?  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1891 - April 07, 2018, 02:42 PM

    i don't think he is believer  but guys like him play  the game for  bread/butter and their job ...  that whole department  is funded by  middle east    kings  ...  So objective analysis of history  of   Islam  goes out of the window.. well  drop a line   at his podcast link  message box...


    Agree completely, convenient to go along.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1892 - April 07, 2018, 03:55 PM

     
    hu! ask  that question everyone in this folder?? it  is as good as you asking  me "RUN  IN CIRCLES"   until I  fall  down  Altara.,   I  do not  think they believe in traditional Islamic story  but they are looking for some one  to help them out of traditional account..  So they ask questions ..I am just curious on that., did any Academics like that  99% of your list  wrote  any book any account  on pre-Islamic Mecca?? Any  literature on that?  


    You have Michael Lecker. He's the specialist of "Mecca" and "Medina" he wrote many articles. Check with you usual motor of research.  Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1893 - April 07, 2018, 04:31 PM

    You have Michael Lecker. He's the specialist of "Mecca" and "Medina" he wrote many articles. Check with you usual motor of research.  Wink

    What??  are you  joking?? are you trying  to pull my leg Altara??   well then click his picture and read his book

    you  are giving exactly opposite reference  to what you write........  
     
    How about Dan Gibson from Canada? Oh!  he  is NOT academic professor....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wm7Ka4bHck

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1894 - April 07, 2018, 05:41 PM

     I thought you were talking about the 99% of great believers academics : I choose one. Lecker the hyper specialist of the "Mecca" "Medina" markets...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1895 - April 07, 2018, 09:29 PM

    So...where are we in this discussion? A lot has been said and I do not know where to start.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1896 - April 07, 2018, 09:36 PM

    One question to Altara: It is clear that you do not beleive the traditional account on Mecca and Medina. Do you beleive that both cities are complete fictions produced by the later reports, or that they existed prior to Islam in some way or another (albeit not as the later reports describe them)? To take Mecca as an example, Gallez thinks that it was somewhere in norther Syria; whilst Gibson thinks that it was in Petra. Do you hold a similar position? Or do you simply think that both did not exist at all and where created ex nihilo. What about Medina? Because as Dye wrote, somethings pertaining to Medina, in this case its size and importance in early Islam, is more certain, in contrast to Mecca. And with all due respect, I would appreciate an elaborate answer without coded language and polemics. Best regards
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1897 - April 07, 2018, 09:38 PM

    So...where are we in this discussion? A lot has been said and I do not know where to start.

    well Mahgraye  if you are in Academic university in a department that is exploring early Islam   then  

    It would be nice  to explore year by year time line of Prophet of Islam life Early  Meccan  period.,  his  life in Madina and back in Mecca  at the end ....  specially from  those WHO ARE NOT MUSLIMS but teach/work in universities ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1898 - April 07, 2018, 09:42 PM

    Yeezevee

    I believe academics are doing just that. One must separate between popular scholars and the ones who are doing the actual work. On the basis of the books and articles I currently posses, it seems to me that almost all scholars are non-Muslims and are very skeptical.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1899 - April 08, 2018, 02:25 AM

     
    Quote
    ...................It would be nice  to explore year by year time line of Prophet of Islam life Early  Meccan  period.,  his  life in Madina and back in Mecca  at the end ....  specially from  those WHO ARE NOT MUSLIMS but teach/work in universities ..

     
    Yeezevee

    I believe academics are doing just that. One must separate between popular scholars and the ones who are doing the actual work. On the basis of the books and articles I currently posses,

    it seems to me that almost all scholars are non-Muslims and are very skeptical.

    i wonder whether you could throw few names of popular scholars  and those  who are doing the actual work? and very skeptical.  about what?


    with best regards
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1900 - April 08, 2018, 02:51 AM

    Not sure about popular scholars, but maybe Ramadan and Armstrong? I do not really consider them to be "scholars" or "academics".

    On the other hand, I would name: Crone, Cook, Calder, Rippin, Hawting, Shoemaker, Dye, Segovia, de Prémare, Robinson, Powers, Reynolds, Melchert, to name a few. They all are leading scholars in the field and quite skeptical about the traditional narrative provided by the Arabic sources.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1901 - April 08, 2018, 08:21 AM

    Gabriel Said Reynolds on the Qur’an and the Bible
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WTse8sDLGRE
    The Qur'an and the Bible: Text and Commentary
    Quote
    A groundbreaking comparative study that illuminates the connections between the Qur’ān and the Bible

    While the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament are understood to be related texts, the sacred scripture of Islam, the third Abrahamic faith, has generally been considered separately. Noted religious scholar Gabriel Said Reynolds draws on centuries of Qur’ānic and Biblical studies to offer rigorous and revelatory commentary on how these holy books are intrinsically connected.

    Reynolds demonstrates how Jewish and Christian characters, imagery, and literary devices feature prominently in the Qur’ān, including stories of angels bowing before Adam and of Jesus speaking as an infant. This important contribution to religious studies features a full translation of the Qur’ān along with excerpts from the Jewish and Christian texts. It offers a clear analysis of the debates within the communities of religious scholars concerning the relationship of these scriptures, providing a new lens through which to view the powerful links that bond these three major religions.


    Read an extract: https://www.academia.edu/36019543/Sample_of_The_Quran_and_the_Bible_New_Haven_Yale_University_Press_2018_
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1902 - April 08, 2018, 09:14 AM

    Guillaume Dye décortique le Coran (in French, obviously)
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M-uS_xAiTF4
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1903 - April 08, 2018, 09:15 AM

    Not sure about popular scholars, but maybe Ramadan and Armstrong? I do not really consider them to be "scholars" or "academics".

    popular scholars,??  scholars??    they  are faith heads...

    Quote
    On the other hand, I would name: Crone, Cook, Calder, Rippin, Hawting, Shoemaker, Dye, Segovia, de Prémare, Robinson, Powers, Reynolds, Melchert, to name a few. They all are leading scholars in the field and quite skeptical about the traditional narrative provided by the Arabic sources.

       I  will delete dr. Patricia Crone from that list  but ......

      don't  many of above guys  believe that  THERE WAS PERSON MUHAMMAD AND HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WORDS UTTERED/WRITTEN IN QURAN??

     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1904 - April 08, 2018, 10:49 AM

    I agree that my remark "popular scholars" was unnecessary, and I also agree that they are not academics.

    Why would you remove Crone from that list? She was one of the leading "skeptics" of this time. She openly challenged the standard narrative in her writing.

    Yes, I would say that they all beleive that an Arabian prophet existed. Minimal historicity, that is. Whether he played a role in  composing the Koran is varies, some think so more than others. By the way, they all are revisionist, not mere skeptics, and that should tell you about their position. The only exception might be Melchert, who is nonetheless a great skeptic scholar.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1905 - April 08, 2018, 02:25 PM


    Why would you remove Crone from that list? She was one of the leading "skeptics" of this time. She openly challenged the standard narrative in her writing.  

    well  because she is at different level than these other guys.. She probably taught many of these guys  how to be skeptic on Islamic  history  and how to look in to the early history  & origins of  Islam.

    Quote
    Yes, I would say that they all beleive that an Arabian prophet existed. Minimal historicity, that is. Whether he played a role in  composing the Koran is varies, some think so more than others. By the way, they all are revisionist, not mere skeptics, and that should tell you about their position. The only exception might be Melchert, who is nonetheless a great skeptic scholar.

    Well they are all shifting sands  and trying to make the sand dorms  which will fall agian., THEY DO NOT TOUCH THE SUBJECT OF AUTHENTICITY OF  MUHAMMAD & AUTHENTICITY OF  HADITH., As far as Quran is concerned   such book could be put together without Prophet  of Islam, without Muhammad much before the birth of Islam.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1906 - April 08, 2018, 03:12 PM

    I mean no disrespect dear Yeezevee, but your comment strongly implies that you have not read anyone I named, or anyone in this filed for that matter. If these scholars have anything in common is that they all dispute the reliability of the Hadith corpus. Everything they do is disputing the standard narrative and providing their own. The unreliability of the Hadith corpus is now a given in the field. By Hadith I also refer to all its branches, such as the sira, tafsir, tarikh, etc. This has been the dominant view since the publication of Goldziher's Muslim Studies and Schacht's Origins of Muhammadan Jurisprudence. Shoemaker, for instance, wrote that the consensus among scholars is that the traditional biography is, at least in its chronology, unreliable. Claiming that scholars, especially those named here, do not question the reliability of Hadith, is like claiming that Muslims do not reject the Trinity, or that New Testament scholars beleive that John the Beloved Disciple actually wrote the Fourth Gospel. What is more uprising is that the scholars I named are not only revisionists, but Wansbroughian revisionist, that is, they beleive that the sīrah sources is salvation history, something even Sinai acknowledges. Dear Yeezevee, as I wrote earlier, I do not intend any disrespect at all, but please do some reading, because your claim is just inaccurate.

    True. The Koran could predate Muhammad, but that does not in any way imply that he did not exist. We are not talking about Muhammad of Islam, but Muhammad of history. Scholars do affirm minimal historicity, in that there was some Arabian prophet.

    I found out something interesting about Shoemaker. He seems to think that the Koran was not written by Muhammad, but rather, by his followers.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1907 - April 08, 2018, 04:08 PM

    I mean no disrespect dear Yeezevee,...........                                                                                                                                            
           ..............................Dear Yeezevee, as I wrote earlier, I do not intend any disrespect at all, but please do some reading, because your claim is just inaccurate.

    dearest Mahgraye.,  I consider your posts as an asset to this forum. So whatever you write  here YOU  WILL NOT BE DISRESPECTING ME.    By  Questioning my views freely on Islam or other faiths  or for that matter  in the work I  do for bread and butter  is extremely important  ., Freedom to question is fundamental  to improve and move the stagnated fields forward..  So you  can question me.,  you can heckle me and even  insult me.. you  will have full freedom here  in this forum from my side..  
     
    1). ..... but your comment strongly implies that you have not read anyone I named, or anyone in this filed for that matter. If these scholars have anything in common is that they all dispute the reliability of the Hadith corpus. Everything they do is disputing the standard narrative and providing their own.

    2).  The unreliability of the Hadith corpus is now a given in the field. By Hadith I also refer to all its branches, such as the sira, tafsir, tarikh, etc. This has been the dominant view since the publication of Goldziher's Muslim Studies and Schacht's Origins of Muhammadan Jurisprudence. Shoemaker, for instance, wrote that the consensus among scholars is that the traditional biography is, at least in its chronology, unreliable.

    3). Claiming that scholars, especially those named here, do not question the reliability of Hadith, is like claiming that Muslims do not reject the Trinity, or that New Testament scholars beleive that John the Beloved Disciple actually wrote the Fourth Gospel. What is more uprising is that the scholars I named are not only revisionists, but Wansbroughian revisionist, that is, they beleive that the sīrah sources is salvation history, something even Sinai acknowledges. Dear Yeezevee, as I wrote earlier, I do not intend any disrespect at all, but please do some reading, because your claim is just inaccurate.

    4). True. The Koran could predate Muhammad, but that does not in any way imply that he did not exist. We are not talking about Muhammad of Islam, but Muhammad of history. Scholars do affirm minimal historicity, in that there was some Arabian prophet.

    I found out something interesting about Shoemaker. He seems to think that the Koran was not written by Muhammad, but rather, by his followers.

    Now  on  your response let  me dissect into  different points  before I respond  as the subject  goes into Gospels as it is entirely different beast .  So  with those four points in mind we will discuss the subject .  Again Please do not  hesitate to question or even heckle  me   a bit .
     
    with best wishes
    yeezevee
      
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1908 - April 08, 2018, 04:21 PM

    One question to Altara: It is clear that you do not believe the traditional account on Mecca and Medina. Do you believe that both cities are complete fictions produced by the later reports, or that they existed prior to Islam in some way or another (albeit not as the later reports describe them)?


    I have a rational explication, be sure of it.  A great city of commerce, rich and powerful, unknown to everyone, is impossible in the Late Antique Near East. Im-po-ssi-ble. It is not normal that nobody knows it. Then, if nobody knows it, it is because it does not existed.
    But remember that I'm talking about the city of "Mecca" described by the traditional account, and nothing else.  But that there was "something" in the place where Mecca is today does not change anything : there's not Mecca before Islam as described by the traditional account, because it is in the Mecca described by the traditional account that the "Prophet" lived. And nowhere else. Especially not in a "something" with 200 or 300 people (I am very generous, considering this barren place...). How 300 people conquer Persia ? Explain to me. With the angels ?
    Therefore this place itself with 300 people (Mecca today) cannot be possible as well 1)as the place described by the traditional account, 2) and as the place where the "conquest" has started. So what then ? Then the story, presented as "historical facts" is inexact.

    To take Mecca as an example, Gallez thinks that it was somewhere in northern Syria; whilst Gibson thinks that it was in Petra. Do you hold a similar position? Or do you simply think that both did not exist at all and where created ex nihilo. What about Medina? Because as Dye wrote, something pertaining to Medina, in this case its size and importance in early Islam, is more certain, in contrast to Mecca. And with all due respect, I would appreciate an elaborate answer without coded language and polemics. Best regards


    Both believe in the traditional account which is clear for everyone  : "In a city is born a man responsible of the Quran." Gallez "thinks that it was somewhere in northern Syria" Gibson "thinks that it was in Petra."
    They both know that "Mecca" in the Western peninsula is impossible but they are still stuck and believer of the traditional account : "In a city  is born a man responsible of the Quran". They both situate what happened perforce in a "city".
    How could it be that in the Roman Empire nobody knew of this predication ? That nobody has just spoken of it, that there is no sources, not one, not a micro one, about it ? Explain to me.
    There's no city of this kind where nobody speaks of something about the Biblical God in Syria-Palestine-Transjordan, without someone speaks and that people OUTSIDE of the place speaks to another one and so on. And that there is a not a micro allusion (archaeological, epigraphical, scriptural)  of a predication of a man pretending to be in contact with God by the intermediary of the angel Gabriel. is not really plausible. It is not plausible that someone did not speak of it. Even impossible. And that it has not be noted as a micro allusion somewhere is not credible. To me it's logic : there's no "Mecca" before Islam.
    What is "Medina" ? I do not know any "Medina" in the peninsula before Islam. And the "Prophet"  is not born and does not live there during 40 (?) years. Yathrib is not a creation ex nihilo, but Yathrib as  "Medina" is one, since this place has never bore the name "Medina". If the "Prophet" was born in Yathrib, where he has emigrated ?  To Mars ? Explain to me.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1909 - April 08, 2018, 04:38 PM

    .......... ..A great city of commerce, rich and powerful, unknown to everyone, is impossible in the Late Antique Near Eas...... if nobody knows it, it is because it does not existed.

    ...: ...there's no "Mecca" before Islam...... 


    ....What is "Medina" ? I do not know any "Medina" in the peninsula before Islam.......

    dear Altara

    would you consider Existence of Muhammad  ..Prophet of Islam  1).  without those cities   Meccca and Madina/ Yathrib, ??   2).  Is Yathrib  really present Madina??  3).  who  do you think  changed name  of    Yathrib to Madina

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1910 - April 08, 2018, 06:28 PM

    1) As the producer of the Quran reason why he hold the title of "prophet" nope. Why ? Because, there's many many "prophets" able to wrote the Quran. In all big cities there's people who have the cursus to write this kind of text., because as often outlined by Guillaume Dye, and as know (or should know)  every scholars of Islam, there's no need to be "prophet" to produce the Quran, just to have the cursus. And in the 6/7thc. there is many many people able to do that.

    2) The Ummayads.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1911 - April 08, 2018, 06:39 PM

    1) As the producer of the Quran reason why he hold the title of "prophet" nope. Why ?
    Quote
    Because, there's many many "prophets" able to wrote the Quran. In all big cities there's people who have the cursus to write this kind of text., because as often outlined by Guillaume Dye, and as know (or should know)  every scholars of Islam, there's no need to be "prophet" to produce the Quran, just to have the cursus. And in the 6/7thc. there is many many people able to do that.

    2) The Ummayads.


    well i  am  asking  that question from the idea of  Mahgraye
    ............................
    True. The Koran could predate Muhammad, but that does not in any way imply that he did not exist.......................

       in other words  Prophet/s of Islam is different from prophet/s  of Quran....  that letter /s  is my  addition..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1912 - April 08, 2018, 07:46 PM

    So Mahgraye  wrote this
    ................On the other hand, I would name: Crone,   Cook, Calder, Rippin, Hawting, Shoemaker, Dye, Segovia, de Prémare, Robinson, Powers, Reynolds, Melchert, to name a few. They all are leading scholars in the field   

      and yeezevee quipped  on those scholars
    Well they are all shifting sands  and trying to make the sand dorms  which will fall again., THEY DO NOT TOUCH THE SUBJECT OF AUTHENTICITY OF  MUHAMMAD & AUTHENTICITY OF  HADITH.............

    And  Mahgraye  says
    I mean no disrespect dear Yeezevee, but your comment strongly implies that you have not read anyone I named, or anyone in this filed for that matter

    ................ but please do some reading, because your claim is just inaccurate. .......


    Indeed Mahgraye  is right in pointing out that I HAVE NOT READ WHAT THOSE SCHOLARS WROTE COMPLETELY and I must read all of their contributions ...  It does take  enormous time  to sieve through   the scholarly religious literature   ...anyway I will try again I remove  Crone,    from that list ..


    Quote
    Cook,:  Michael Allan Cook FBA (born in 1940) is a British historian and scholar of Islamic history.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB3jAPSRKkI

    Works
    Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World, 1977, with Patricia Crone.
    Muhammad (Past Masters), 1983.
    The Koran: A Very Short Introduction, 2000.
    Commanding Right and Forbidding Wrong in Islamic Thought, 2001 (Winner of the Albert Hourani Book Award).
    Forbidding Wrong in Islam: An Introduction (Themes in Islamic History), 2003.
    Early Muslim Dogma : A Source-Critical Study, 2003.
    Studies in the Origins of Early Islamic Culture and Tradition, 2004.
    A Brief History of the Human Race, 2005.
    Ancient Religions, Modern Politics: The Islamic Case in Comparative Perspective, 2014



    Quote
    Calder:   Norman Calder (1950 – February 13, 1998) was a British historian and Islamic scholar.

    Works
    Studies in Early Muslim Jurisprudence (1993).
    Interpretation and Jurisprudence in Medieval Islam (2006), with Jawid Mojaddedi.
    Islamic Jurisprudence in the Classical Era (2014).
    Classical Islam: A Sourcebook of Religious Literature (2012), edited with Jawid Mojaddedi and Andrew Rippin.



    Quote
    Rippin, :Andrew Lawrence Rippin, FRSC (16 May 1950 in London, England – 29 November 2016)[1] was a Canadian scholar of Islam.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj3ywpaP4zE

    Quote
    Andrew Rippin, Jan Knappert (eds.), Textual Sources for the Study of Islam, Totowa, N.J. : Barnes & Noble, 1987.
    Andrew Rippin (ed.), Approaches to the History of the Interpretation of the Qur'an, Oxford : Clarendon Press, 1988.
    Andrew Rippin, Muslims: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices, New York : Routledge, 1990.
    Andrew Rippin (ed.), The Qur'an: Formative Interpretation, Aldershot: Ashgate, 1999.
    Andrew Rippin (ed.), The Qur'an, Style and Contents, Aldershot: Ashgate, 2001.
    Andrew Rippin, The Qur'an and its Interpretative Tradition, (Variorum Collected Studies), Aldershot, Hampshire; Burlington, VT: Ashgate/Variorum, 2001.
    Norman Calder, Jawid Mojaddedi, Andrew Rippin (eds.), Classical Islam: A Sourcebook of Religious Literature, New York : Routledge, 2003.
    Andrew Rippin, Muslims: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices. 2005.
    Andrew Rippin (ed.), Defining Islam: A Reader, London; Oakville, CT: Equinox, 2007.
    Andrew Rippin (ed.), The Islamic world, New York: Routledege, 2010.
    Andrew Rippin, Jawid Mojaddedi (eds.), The Wiley Blackwell Companion to the Qur'an, Chichester, W. Sussex: John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 2017.


    Quote
    Hawting:   Gerald R. Hawting (born 1944) is a British historian and Islamicist.  Hawting's teachers were Bernard Lewis and John Wansbrough. He received his Ph.D. in 1978. He is Emeritus Professor for the History of the Near and Middle East at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) in London
      
    Works
    The First Dynasty of Islam: The Umayyad Caliphate AD 661-750 (1986).
    "John Wansbrough, Islam, and monotheism" (1997).
    The Idea of Idolatry and the Emergence of Islam: From Polemic to History (1999).
    As editor and co-author:

    Approaches to the Quran (1993).
    The Development of Islamic Ritual (2006)


    Quote
    Shoemaker,:       Stephen Shoemaker (Ph.D. '97, Duke University) teaches courses on the Christian traditions. His primary interests lie in the ancient and early medieval Christian traditions, and more specifically in early Byzantine and Near Eastern Christianity. His research focuses on early devotion to the Virgin Mary, Christian apocryphal literature, and the relations between Near Eastern Christianity and formative Islam.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7cO6mztBp4

    Stephen J. ShoemakerBooks

    Quote
    The Apocalypse of Empire: Imperial Eschatology in Late Antiquity and Early Islam 2018

    Mary in Early Christian Faith and Devotion 2016

    The Death of a Prophet: The End of Muhammad's Life and the Beginnings of Islam 2011

    Ancient Traditions of the Virgin Mary's Dormition and Assumption  2002


    Dye,

    Quote
    Segovia,: Carlos Andrés Segovia  2nd Marquis of Salobreña  s a philosopher and a historian of Second Temple Judaism, early Christianity, and formative Islam.

    Quote
    Works

    Carlos A. Segovia (2005). The Concept of Being in Islamic Philosophy: A Study on Mulla Sadra's "Kitab al-Masha'ir." (In Spanish.) Granada: Editorial Universidad de Granada. ISBN 84-338-3647-1
    Carlos A. Segovia (2006). A Selection from Avicenna's "Ilahiyyat". (In Spanish.) Madrid: Editorial Biblioteca Nueva. ISBN 84-9742-521-9
    Carlos A. Segovia (2006). Against Heterodoxes: A Spanish Translation of al-Ash'ari's "Kitab al-Luma.'"]. (In Spanish.) Madrid: Editorial Biblioteca Nueva. ISBN 84-9742-522-7
    Carlos A. Segovia (2007). 'The Qur'an: A Thematic Anthology. (In Spanish.) Madrid: Editorial Biblioteca Nueva. ISBN 978-84-9742-657-2
    Carlos A. Segovia and Basil Lourié, eds. (2012). The Coming of the Comforter: When, Where, and to Whom? Studies on the Rise of Islam and Various Other Topics in Memory of John Wansbrough. Piscataway, New Jersey: Gorgias Press. ISBN 978-1-4632-0158-6
    Carlos A. Segovia (2013).Por una interpretación no cristiana de Pablo de Tarso: El redescubrimiento contemporáneo de un judío mesiánico. Prólogo de Antonio Piñero Sáenz. iTunes Store & iBookstore (Apple ID: 599221707).
    Carlos A. Segovia (2013). Pablo de Tarso, ¿judío o cristiano?. Prólogo de Antonio Piñero Sáenz. Madrid: Atanor Ediciones. ISBN 978-849406-259-9.
    Carlos A. Segovia (2015). The Quranic Noah and the Making of the Islamic Prophet: A Study of Intertextuality and Religious Identity Formation in Late Antiquity. JCIT 4. Berlin and New York: De Gruyter. ISBN 978-3-11-040589-7.


    Quote
    de Prémare, :  Alfred-Louis of Prémare  norn in 1930 in Tours and died on October 10 , 2006 Is a historian and academic French , specialist language and Arab culture and history of Islam

    Quote
    Works

    Maghreb and Andalusia in the XIV th century. Travel Notes of an Andalusian in Morocco 1344-1345 , Lyon University Press, 1981;
    Sidi 'Abd-er-Rahman el-Mejdub , Paris, CNRS, and Rabat, SMER, 1985 (cover: drawing by Richard de Premare );
    The oral tradition of Mejdûb , Aix-en-Provence, Edisud, 1986;
    Joseph and Muhammed. Chapter 12 of the Koran , Aix-en-Provence, Publications of the University of Provence, 1989;
    Arabic-French dictionary (Moroccan language and culture) , 12 vols. (with coll.), Paris, L'Harmattan, 1993-1999;
    The Foundations of Islam. Between writing and history , Paris, Le Seuil, 2002;
    The Origins of the Quran, Questions from Yesterday, Today's Approaches , Paris, Téraèdre, ("Islam in Debates"), 2004, ( ISBN  2-912868-19-X ) .
    The first Islamic scriptures , under the responsibility of Alfred-Louis Prémare, Journal of Muslim worlds and the Mediterranean , n o  58, 1990. [ archive ]



    Robinson, Huh?...

    Quote
    Powers, :   David S. Powers (Ph.D., Princeton, 1979) is a native of Cleveland, Ohio and long-suffering Cleveland Indians fan. He received his Ph.D. from Princeton in 1979 and began teaching at Cornell in the same year. He currently holds positions as a Professor in the Department of Near Eastern, an Adjunct Professor at the Cornell Law School, and Director of the Medieval Studies Program. His courses deal with Islamic civilization, Islamic history and law, and classical Arabic texts, and his research focuses on the emergence of Islam and Islamic legal history. He is founding editor of the journal Islamic Law and Society.

    Quote
    Publications
    MONOGRAPHS
    Zayd (University of Pennsylvania Press, 2014)
    Muhammad is Not the Father of Any of Your Men: The Making of the Last Prophet (University of Pennsylvania Press, 2009)
    Law, Society, and Culture in the Maghrib, 1300-1500 (Cambridge  University Press, 2002)
    Studies in Qur'an and Hadith: The Formation of the Islamic Law of Inheritance. University of California Press, 1986. Translated into Bahasa Indonesia as Peralihin Kekayaan dan Politk Kekuasaan: Kritik Histois Hukum Waris (LkiS, Yogyakarta, 2001)
    ARTICLES
    “Inheritance.” In Oxford Bibliographies in Islamic Studies. Ed. Andrew Rippin. New York: Oxford University Press (2015).
    “Adoption,” In Oxford Bibliographies in Islamic Studies. Ed. John O. Voll. New York: Oxford University Press, forthcoming, April 2016
    “From Nuzi to Medina: Q. 4:12b, Revisited,” in Structures of Power: Law and Gender across the Ancient Near East and Beyond, ed. Ilan Peled, Oriental Institute Seminars, vol. 12 (Oriental Institute, University of Chicago, 2016) -- forthcoming.
    “Law and Sufism in the Maghrib, ca. 829/1425,” in Cynthia Robinson and Amalia Zomeno (eds.), Construcciones de una Devocion: Religiosidad en la Granada Nazari (forthcoming).
    “Finality of Prophecy,” in The Oxford Handbook of the Abrahamic Religions, ed. A. Silverstein and G. Stroumsa, Oxford University Press, 2015.
    “’A Bequest May Not Exceed One-Third’: An Isnād-cum-Matn Analysis – and Beyond,” in Islamic Cultures, Islamic Contexts, edited by Behnam Sadeghi, Asad Ahmed, Robert Hoyland, and Adam Silverstein.  Leiden: Brill: 2014 (co-authored with Pavel Pavlovitch)
    “Wael B. Hallaq on the Origins of Islamic Law: A Review Essay,” Islamic Law and Society, 17:1 (2010),
    "Demonizing Zenobia: The Legend of al-Zabba' in Islamic Sources", in Histories of the Middle East: Studies in Middle Eastern Economy, Society, and Law in Honor of A.L. Udovitch (Brill, 2010)
    "The Abolition of Adoption in Islam, Reconsidered," in Droit et Religions Annuaire 4 (2009-10), 97-107
    "From the Mi`yar of al-Wansharisi to the New Mi`yar of al-Wazzani," co-authored with Etty Terem, Jerusalem Studies in Arabic and Islam 33 (2007), 235-260
    "Law and Custom in the Maghrib, 1475-1500: On the Disinheritance of Women," in Law, Custom, and Statute in the Muslim World: Studies in Honor of Aharon Layish (E.J. Brill, 2006), 17-40.
    "Qadis and their Courts: An Historical Survey," with M. Khalid Masud and Rudolph Peters, in Dispensing Justice in Muslim Courts: Qadis and their Courts, ed. M. Khalid Masud, Rudolph Peters, David S. Powers (E.J. Brill, 2006), 1-46.
    "Women and Courts in the Maghrib, 1100-1500, in Dispensing Justice in Muslim Courts: Qadis and their Courts, ed. M. Khalid Masud, Rudolph Peters, David S. Powers (E.J. Brill, 2006), 383-410.
    “Women and Divorce in the Islamic West: Three Cases,” Hawwa, vol. 1:1 (2003), 29-45.
    "Parents and their Minor Children: Familial Politics in the Middle Maghrib in the Eighth/Fourteenth Century," Continuity and Change, August 2001, 177-200.
    "The Islamic Family Endowment (Waqf)," Vanderbilt Journal of Transnational Law, 32:4 (1999), 1167-90.
    "Introduction: The Islamic Inheritance System," Islamic Law and Society, 5:3 (1998): 285-90 [theme issue]
    "The Art of the Judicial Opinion: On Tawlij in Fifteenth-Century Tunis," Islamic Law and Society, 5:3 (1998): 359-81.
    EDITED VOLUMES
    Islamic Legal Thought: A Compendium of Muslim Jurists, ed. O. Arabi, D.S. Powers and S. Spectorsky (E.J. Brill, 2013)
    Dispensing Justice in Muslim Courts: Qadi and their Courts, ed. M. Khalid Masud, Rudolph Peters, David S. Powers (E.J. Brill, 2006)
    Islamic Legal Interpretation: Muftis and their Fatwas, ed. M. Khalid Masud, Brinkley Messick and David Powers (Harvard University Press, 1996)


    Quote
    Reynolds,  :  Gabriel Said Reynolds  Professor of Islamic Studies and Theology, Notre Dame

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g_bjux7sI0

    Quote
    Recent Publications
    Books:
    2017. The Qurʾan and the Bible: Revised Qurʾan Translation of Ali Quli Qaraʾi annotated with Biblical Texts and Commentary by Gabriel Said Reynolds. Under contract with Yale University Press

    2016. Co-Editor, contributor. The Qurʾan Seminar Commentary: A Collaborative Study of 50 Qurʾānic Passages. Berlin: De Gruyter, 2016.

    2012. The Emergence of Islam. Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press. (Arabic translation in progress)
     
    2011. Editor. New Perspectives on the Qurʾān: The Qurʾān in Its Historical Context 2. London: Routledge.
     
    2010. The Qurʾān and Its Biblical Subtext. London: Routledge.
     
    2010. Introduced, Translated, and Annotated. The Critique of Christian Origins: Qāḍī ʿAbd al-Jabbār’s (d. 415/1025) Islamic Essay on Christianity. Edited Samir Khalil Samir. Provo UT: BYU Pres.
     
    2008. Editor. The Qurʾān in Its Historical Context.  London: Routledge.  Arabic translation: Al-Qurʾān fī muḥīṭihi al-tārīkhī. Trans. Saʿd Saʿdī and ʿAbd al-Masīḥ Saʿdī. Beirut: Dār al-Jamal, 2011.
     
    2004. A Muslim Theologian in the Sectarian Milieu: ʿAbd al-Jabbār ab d aabdj;sand the ‘Critique of Christian Origins’.  Leiden: E.J. Brill.
     
    Book Chapters:
    “Sourates 4-6,” Le Coran des historiens (Paris, Le Cerf, forthcoming).

    2016. “A Flawed Prophet? Noah in the Qurʾān and Qurʾānic Commentary,” Islamic Studies Today: Essays in Honor of Andrew Rippin, ed. M. Daneshgar and W. Saleh (Leiden: Brill, 2016), 260-73.

    2011. “On the Qurʾān’s Māʾida Passage and the Wanderings of the Israelites,” The Coming of the Comforter: When, Where, and to Whom? Studies on the Rise of Islam in Memory of John Wansbrough, ed. B. Lourié, C.A. Segovia, and A. Bausi (Piscataway, NJ: Gorgias, 2011), 91-108.

    2010. “Reading the Qurʾan as Homily: The Case of Sarah’s Laughter,” The Qurʾān in Context, ed. A. Neuwirth, N. Sinai, and M. Marx (Leiden: Brill, 2010), 585-92.

    2008. “ʿAbd al-Jabbār,” The Islamic World, ed. A. Rippin (London: Routledge, 2008), 338-44.

    2006. “Redeeming the Adam of the Qurʾān,” Arabische Christen – Christen in Arabien, ed. D. Kreikenbom, F.-Ch. Muth and J. Thielmann (Frankfurt: Lang, 2006), 71-83.

    2005. “The Eschaton and Justice in the Thought of Mulla Sadra,” Proceedings of the Second World Congress on Transcendent Philosophy (Tehran, Iran: 2005).

    2001. “A Philosophical Odyssey: Ghazzâlî’s Intentions of the Philosophers,” Medieval Philosophy and the Classical Tradition in Islam, Judaism and Christianity, ed. D. Thomas (Richmond: Curzon, 2001), 37-50.

     
    Articles
    2017. “Noah’s Lost Son in the Qurʾan,” Arabica 64 (2017), 1-20.

    2017. “Gavin D’Costa, Vatican II, and Islam,” (solicited) Nova et Vetera 16 (2017), 291-99.

    2014. “Islamic Studies in the North America, or Reflections on the Academic Study of the Qurʾan,” Islamochristiana 40, 55-73.

    2014. “On the Presentation of Christianity in the Qurʾan and the Many Aspects of Qurʾanic Rhetoric,” al-Bayān 12: 42-54.
     
    2013. “The Qurʾān and the Apostles of Jesus,” Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies 76:1-19.
     
    2012. “On the Qurʾan and the Theme of Jews as ‘Killers of the Prophets’,” al-Bayān 10: 9-34.
     
    2011. “Le problème de la chronologie du Coran,” Arabica 58: 477-502.
     
    2011. “Remembering Muḥammad,” (solicited) Numen 58: 188-206.
     
    2010. “On the Qurʾānic Accusation of Scriptural Falsification (taḥrīf) and Christian anti-Jewish Polemic,” Journal of the American Oriental Society 130:, 1-14.
     
    Biography
    Gabriel Said Reynolds is Professor of Islamic Studies and Theology at Notre Dame.  His research is focused above all on the Qur'an and Muslim-Christian relations.  He wrote a dissertation on the remarkable Islamic history of Christianity of ʿAbd al-Jabbar (d. 1025); the dissertation won the Field Prize at Yale and was published (Brill 2004) as A Muslim Theologian in the Sectarian Milieu. Reynolds also prepared an introduction and translation of this history, published by (BYU 2008) as The Critique of Christian Origins.

    At Notre Dame, Reynolds has organized two international conferences (2005, 2009) on the Qur'ān, and edited the acts of the conferences as The Qur'an in Its Historical Context (Routledge 2008) and New Perspectives on the Qur'an: The Qur'an in Its Historical Context 2 (Routledge 2011). In 2012-13 Prof. Reynolds directed, along with Mehdi Azaiez, “The Qurʾan Seminar” a year-long project with a team of 28 international scholars, which led to a collaborative commentary, The Qurʾan Seminar Commentary, published by De Gruyter. Currently, Prof. Reynolds serves on the Executive Board of The International Qurʾanic Studies Association (iqsaweb.org).

    Prof. is the author of The Qur'an and Its Biblical Subtext (Routledge 2010). He has also published The Emergence of Islam (Fortress, 2012), an introduction to the Qurʾan, the life of the Prophet Muhammad, or the classical period of Islam.  Currently, he is working on The Qurʾan and the Bible, a Biblically-minded commentary on the Qurʾān which will be published by Yale University Press in 2017.



    Quote
    Melchert, :  Christopher Melchert is an American professor and scholar of Islam, specialising in Islamic movements and institutions, especially in the ninth and tenth centuries C.E. A prolific author, he is University Lecturer in Arabic and Islam at the University of Oxford's Oriental Institute, and is a Fellow in Arabic at Pembroke College, Oxford.

    Melchert received a Ph.D. in History (1992) from the University of Pennsylvania. His thesis was later published as a book, titled The Formation of the Sunni Schools of Law, with Brill Publishers, Leiden. Melchert more recently published a book on Ahmad ibn Hanbal, the Sunni jurist.

    Having written about whether women can be prayer leaders according to the early Sunni and Shii jurists, he is one of the few expert historians who has written authoritatively on the question

    Quote
    Selected publications

    Books
    The Formation of the Sunni Schools of Law, 9th-10th Centuries C.E.[2] (Studies in Islamic law and society, v. 4). Leiden: Brill, 1997.[3]
    Reviewed by W. B. Hallaq in International Journal of Middle East Studies 31, no. 2, (1999): 278-280
    Reviewed by P. Sanders in American Journal of Legal History 43, Part 1 (1999): 98[4]
    Ahmad ibn Hanbal.[5] Oxford: Oneworld, 2006[6] and 2012.[7] (in 116 World Cat libraries)[8]
    Academia
    The formation of the Sunni schools of law, ninth–tenth centuries CE. 1992 Ph.D thesis, University of Pennsylvania
    Religious Policies of the Caliphs from al-Mutawakkil to al-Muqtadir, AH 232-295/AD 847-908, in Islamic Law and Society, 1996 - Brill
    The transition from asceticism to mysticism at the middle of the ninth century CE, in Studia Islamica, 1996 - JSTOR
    The adversaries of Ahmad ibn Hanbal, in Arabica, 1997 - Springer
    Islamic law, in Oklahoma City University Law Review, 1998 - HeinOnline
    How Hanafism Came to Originate in Kufa and Traditionalism in Medina, in Islamic Law and Society, 1999 - Brill
    Ibn Mujāhid and the establishment of seven Qur'anic readings, in Studia Islamica, 2000 - JSTOR
    Traditionist-jurisprudents and the Framing of Islamic Law, in Islamic Law and Society, 2001 - Brill
    The Ḥanābila and the Early Sufis, in Arabica, 2001 - JSTOR
    Sufis and competing movements in Nishapur, in Iran, 2001 - JSTOR
    Various additional papers.[9]




    PS:  well I will edit this post  with time..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1913 - April 08, 2018, 08:05 PM

    He exists in the Quran.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1914 - April 08, 2018, 08:26 PM

    He HARDLY exists in the Quran.

      Who??   who exists??   Prophets??

    yes   many Prophets exist in Quran  

     But  He??  Noooo...

    well let me add a word to your words..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1915 - April 09, 2018, 08:59 AM

    Guillaume Dye décortique le Coran (in French, obviously)
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M-uS_xAiTF4


    Thanks Zeca, excellent, I foundd a documentary in 7 episodes by ARTE by the same up loader, sorry, it is in French, 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32JRiqShYOE

    man, I was really impressed.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1916 - April 09, 2018, 09:50 AM

    Guillaume Dye décortique le Coran (in French, obviously)
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M-uS_xAiTF4


    Guillaume Dye is a great scholar. He knows that there is many issues in the traditional account and he asks question outside of it. Except the fact that he knows very well that it is impossible (as an academic) to say ;  " "Muhammad" has never existed." Because it is a religious dogma and he would be professionally  killed by his colleagues before to be really killed by his students. It is impossible as an academic to explain the origin of the Quran saying that.
    But the problem is that it's precisely when you put aside "Muhammad", reread the sources (non Muslims  and Muslims , the Quran-Baladuri, Waqidi, Tabari-) , the archaeological, epigraphical sources and the history of the 4,5,6th c. that you commence to understand.
    Some would say that Patricia Crone has done the job in Hagarism ; she has not : the very start of her work  "If we choose to start again, we begin with the Doctrina Jacobi,"
    The Doctrina Jacobi in certain way "affirms" the existence of "Muhammad". She has not set him aside, and takes his existence for granted.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1917 - April 09, 2018, 10:12 AM

    "Muhammad" has never existed. Because it is a religious dogma.

    seriously, we have  a Syriac documents probably written around 630, that refer to Muhammed, even the most skeptical scholars have no issue with Muhammed existence, I don't really understand your point. 
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1918 - April 09, 2018, 12:17 PM

    The topic here is the origin of the Quran.
    With that in mind.
    Reread the second paragraph carefully.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1919 - April 09, 2018, 01:50 PM



    Gabriel Said Reynolds is a great scholar. Same vein as Guillaume Dye, but different approach.
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