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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10290 - June 19, 2021, 02:18 PM

    Yeezevee

    Reynolds is quite clear. He does not believe the islamic tradition. He does not expand on this becouse of his position in IQSA. But he does not hide it.

    I never said silverstein or ceric do not believe the tradition.

    I said that the articles point to the fact that the tradition is false.
    They are similar cases to those presented by Reynolds.

    Silverstein still talks about muhammad.

    Ceric i have no idea.
    Indeed writing that the quran speaks about korsoe and not quraysh is quite blowing considering that verse is the only place where the root is mentioned
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10291 - June 19, 2021, 02:29 PM

    Altara.

    Kerr provides a different origin for the meaning of badr in the quran.

    My question is, how do we see that dhuqar was used as model for the badr in islam?
    What extra islamic source can we use to compare the battle description with the islamic one to spot the similarities?


    I was thinking about the folkloristic elements in the quran which do not belong to the larger jewish and chriatian elements, such as the djinns or the prophets like salih.

    These elements are usefull to focalize the time and place of the quranic text composition?

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10292 - June 19, 2021, 04:08 PM

    Quote
    My question is, how do we see that dhu qar was used as model for the badr in islam?


    Compare the two narratives. The Dhu Qar one reported by Tabari (all the story) and the traditional Badr one .


    Quote
    I was thinking about the folkloristic elements in the quran which do not belong to the larger jewish and chriatian elements, such as the djinns or the prophets like salih.
    These elements are usefull to focalize the time and place of the quranic text composition?


    I do not think so.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10293 - June 20, 2021, 09:29 AM

    Well this is important., let me recap few of pointers of  Altara   as he says "Islam actually started   After the defeat of Zubayr."............unlike many 1000s of  historians common belief  who  believe  that  Islam started in cave Hira  from the day of  the first revelation to Prophet of Islam on 610 C.E.    In fact,   we ALL BELIEVE IN THAT  exact date of Islam ..  the faith  beginning is the 21st of Ramadan just before sunrise, i.e. August 10, 610 C.E. – when Muhammad was 40 lunar years, 6 months and 12 days of age, i.e. 39 solar years, 3 months and 22 days

    That  is the day of first revelation to Prophet of Islam ,,,,,,,,,,,,the day of reckoning ........  the day of beginning of Islam    I am taking that info from  a famous book of Mubārakpūrī, Ṣafī R. (1998). When the Moon Split (A Biography of the Prophet Muhammad). Riyadh: Darussalam. p. 32.

    Anyways back to Prophet  Altara  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
    Quote
    Hello Spaghettib.. ................
    well I LEAVE ALTARA ALONE ., I am reading him for a long time..................

    well I said that to Spaghettib  and I asked some questions to Altara  and Altara did not answer.,  So let me repeat the questions as he is shifting times. shifting  names of persons on that ORIGINS OF ISLAM AND ORIGINS OF QURAN  ., Some of the statements from Altara are
    3/ I consider that there was no 'Muhammad'.
     
    2/ I consider that Quranic texts are older than the 7th c.

    Mecca, Medina,  Muhammad,  Zamzam Water
      3Ms & Z  problem in Islam ... 

    So questions to you.,

    Q1.Was that town Medina existed before the year 532?(( apparently before that it was called Yatrib ))

    You say .... Mecca did not exist before Islam.  or Mecca.. Medina.. Muhammad.. zam zam water did not exist before Islam...

    2) What year you  think Islam started?? .. after the death of all those rightly guided caliphs??

    1/ No attestation of 'Mecca'. We have attesttaion of 'muhammad' but not dated (Cf. Dost thesis).

    After the defeat of Zubayr, Islam officially is instutionalized.


    and Are you talking about  Az-Zubayr ibn Al-Awam   or  Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr??

    a). Az-Zubayr ibn Al-Awam (  594–656) was a cousin and companion of the Islamic prophet Muhammad and one of the first converts to Islam.

    b). Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr  (May 624 – October/November 692) was the leader of a caliphate based in Mecca that rivaled the Umayyads from 683 until his death.

    Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr .


      Well that is  the story of  my one of  1000s of  sleepless nights ....lol....,    So that is what  Altara   says     Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr....Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr .....Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr .

    Hello Altara   on your words....  Islam officially is instutionalized. after the defeat of Zubayr

    Q1)  would you consider that day  Az-Zubayr ibn Al-Awam (  594–656) got defeated ((I guess by on of those Abbasid Caliphs))  as the day of  beginning of Islam ??   And what year you think he was defeated ??.,    clearly it has to be in 7th century after all he was born in the year 594....

    Q2)  After that defeat in the war...  Did he move in to Arabian desert and start his career again in the present town Mecca??  or there was no Mecca  but he actually started the town Mecca?? 

    Q3)  And what about Medina/Yatrib ??   Was that  town  Medina there and flourishing in 6th century before the birth of this guy Al-Zubayr??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10294 - June 20, 2021, 10:11 AM

    Quote
    Q1)  would you consider that day  Az-Zubayr ibn Al-Awam (594–656) got defeated ((I guess by on of those Abbasid Caliphs))as the da of  beginning of Islam ??  and what year you think he was defeated ??  clearly it has to be in 7th century after all he was born in the year 594....


    1/Nope.
    2/We have no clear evidence of the year.

    Quote
    Q2) After that defeat in the war...  Did he move in to Arabian desert and start his career again in the present town Mecca??  or there was no Mecca  but he acually started the town Mecca??

    Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr  his son went to the Western Peninsula and started the town Mecca to rally the Arabs vs Malik. Maybe his father did something before and the son continuing it.

    Quote
    Q3)  And what about Medina/Yatrib ??   Was town  Medina there and flourishing in 6th century before the birth of this guy Al-Zubayr??

     

    We know no more that Yathrib was an halt for caravans.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10295 - June 20, 2021, 10:20 AM


    Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr  his son went to the Western Peninsula and started the town Mecca to rally the Arabs vs Malik.
     

      there you mean  Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan ibn al-Hakam ??   that fifth Umayyad caliph??       

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10296 - June 20, 2021, 01:38 PM

    Yes.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10297 - June 20, 2021, 07:58 PM

    Thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/TheHillpaul/status/1406591768859185156
    Quote
    An interesting review from @iandavidmorris on Justin Marozzi’s new book on the Arab Conquest and I find myself nodding in agreement at the question of why are there so few histories of this subject?

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10298 - June 21, 2021, 02:30 PM

    The only issue is to believe the Muslim narrative as historical. Once you get rid of that, all is clear: one knows where the Arabs come from, one knows why they are to the Yarmuk as a first battle, etc.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10299 - June 23, 2021, 08:09 AM


    Narrative and Community in Islamic Late Antiquity by  T Sizgorich · 2004



    Do Prophets Come with a Sword?” Conquest, Empire, and Historical Narrative in the Early by Islamic World THOMAS SIZGORICH

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10300 - June 23, 2021, 10:36 PM

    SIZGORICH was a great scholar.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10301 - June 25, 2021, 03:18 AM

    SIZGORICH was a great scholar.



    https://senate.universityofcalifornia.edu/_files/inmemoriam/html/thomassizgorich.html

    Thomas Sizgorich
    Associate Professor of History
    UC Irvine
    1970 – 2011

    My goodness.. he was just a 41 year old guy ., indeed his works appears to be out of the box and very original.. And Altara I am curious whether you have read through the work of   dr. Nancy Khalek 


    Damascus after the Muslim Conquest: Text and Image in Early Islam 
    Sep 16, 2011 by Nancy


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10302 - June 25, 2021, 03:22 PM

    Nope I did not.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10303 - July 01, 2021, 09:25 AM

    Anthony Kaldellis podcast: https://byzantiumandfriends.podbean.com/e/53-what-can-we-know-about-the-life-of-the-prophet-muhammad-with-sean-anthony/
    Quote
    A conversation with Sean Anthony (Ohio State University) about the earliest sources for the life of the Prophet Muhammad, including the Quran, papyri, inscriptions, and Christian sources of the seventh century, and how Muslims were initially perceived by the Romans of the eastern provinces. The conversation is based on Sean's book Muhammad and the Empires of Faith: The Making of the Prophet of Islam (University of California Press 2020).

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10304 - July 01, 2021, 05:08 PM

    Anthony Kaldellis podcast: https://byzantiumandfriends.podbean.com/e/53-what-can-we-know-about-the-life-of-the-prophet-muhammad-with-sean-anthony/

    Quote
    A conversation with Sean Anthony (Ohio State University) about the earliest sources for the life of the Prophet Muhammad, including the Quran, papyri, inscriptions, and Christian sources of the seventh century, and how Muslims were initially perceived by the Romans of the eastern provinces. The conversation is based on Sean's book Muhammad and the Empires of Faith: The Making of the Prophet of Islam (University of California Press 2020)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZc5QHP75ng

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdaxAXEdx04

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbPSdCf723w

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10305 - July 02, 2021, 09:24 AM

    Podcast: https://www.lesothers.com/podcast/laila-nehme-archeologue-nabateens
    Quote
    Après avoir trouvé une série d’inscriptions anciennes en Arabie saoudite, l’archéologue et épigraphiste Laïla Nehmé décide de partir sur les traces de ces mots mystérieux.

    Avec son équipe, elle emprunte la piste caravanière antique reliant les villes de Hégra et de Médine, à la recherche de nouvelles inscriptions, pour tenter de faire revivre le grand voyage du peuple Nabatéens.

    Quote
    Laïla Nehmé est archéologue, épigraphiste et chercheuse au CNRS. Spécialiste de l’archéologie du Proche-Orient, elle est principalement connue pour ses recherches sur l’écriture nabatéenne et son évolution vers l’arabe.

    Depuis 35 ans, elle se rend en Syrie, en Jordanie et en Arabie-Saoudite pour déchiffrer les traces du passage des Nabatéens sur terre. A partir de 2002, elle co-dirige la mission archéologique de Madain Salih à Hégra.

    Les nombreuses recherches qu’elle effectue permettent de mieux comprendre l’héritage laissé par les Nabatéens. Un peuple qui la passionne et qui est à l’origine de la langue arabe, aujourd’hui parlée par plus de 300 millions de personne à travers le monde.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10306 - July 02, 2021, 12:36 PM

    Thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/GabrielSaidR/status/1410933503450025985
    Quote
    My article on the Qur’anic doublets is out in JIQSA 5 and so you ask, what are doublets and what do they have to do with the Qurʾan?!

    Doublets are repeated phrases within a text & are best known in synoptic Gospel scholarship-they are critical to the 2 source (Mark and Q) model for the composition of Matthew & Luke. Here’s a “sayings” doublet for Luke (although there are also narrative doublets).

    Rather amazingly, scholars of the Qur’an have generally not noticed the preponderance of doublets in the Qur’an. Identifying repeated phrases (usually complete verses) of 9 words or more I identify 29 Qur’anic doublets. Here’s a sample!

    A key point about these doublets: they are not formulas! A Bannister has argued (An Oral-Formulaic Study of the Qur’an) for “oral composition” of the Q on the basis of its formulaic nature, but the doublets are too long to be formulas. They point to written composition.

    1 more key piece to the puzzle! Of 29 doublets only 3 (when we count a verse from Sura 16 as a Medinan insertion) are mixed “Meccan-Medinan” doublets. In other words the doublets not only seem to have a written origin--they seem to come in two packets: “Meccan” & “Medinan.”

    This is interesting! If the doublets were just records of sayings repeated by the Prophet (that is, if they were not produced on the basis of a written text) why would there not be more sayings from the Meccan period repeated in Medina?

    In other words, the doublets (& their distribution) point to the existence of pre-canonical texts, or collections (these presumably would contain more than the doublets – the doublets simply signal their existence): a “Meccan” collection and a “Medinan” collection.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10307 - July 02, 2021, 04:38 PM

    "A key point about these doublets: they are not formulas! A Bannister has argued (An Oral-Formulaic Study of the Qur’an) for “oral composition” of the Q on the basis of its formulaic nature, but the doublets are too long to be formulas. They point to written composition."

    Yes Gabriel. (Yawn).

    Gabriel?
    Yes?
    Who has written the Quran?
    Err...
    Tell us, I'm sure you know it.
    Err...
    Thanks Gabriel. I will tell it then.
    Err... No!
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10308 - July 02, 2021, 05:18 PM

    Quote
    "A key point about these doublets: they are not formulas! A Bannister has argued (An Oral-Formulaic Study of the Qur’an) for “oral composition” of the Q on the basis of its formulaic nature, but the doublets are too long to be formulas. They point to written composition."

    Quote
    Yes Gabriel. (Yawn).

    Gabriel?
    Yes?
    Who has written the Quran?
    Err...
    Tell us, I'm sure you know it.
    Err...
    Thanks Gabriel. I will tell it then.
    Err... No!



    Hi Altara.... how are you doing?.. where did get those words that are in Q/A and in quotes?

    who said that? western Ph.D. Islamic historians?  or eastern Islamic historians?? link please...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10309 - July 02, 2021, 06:26 PM

    Oh I see..  I guess Altara gets that  from some twitter head ..




    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10310 - July 03, 2021, 12:39 PM

    1/Hi Altara.... how are you doing?.. where did get those words that are in Q/A and in quotes?
    Oh I see..  I guess Altara gets that  from some twitter head ..
    2/who said that? western Ph.D. Islamic historians?  or eastern Islamic historians?? link please...


    1/ Yes.
    2/
    Gabriel?
    Yes?
    Who has written the Quran?
    Err...
    Tell us, I'm sure you know it.
    Err...
    Thanks Gabriel. I will tell it then.
    Err... No!


    Imaginary talk. Cheesy
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10311 - July 03, 2021, 02:38 PM

    ...............
    Thanks Gabriel . .....................

    which "Gabriel" are you thanking ? the   archangel that is  described in the Hebrew Bible whose name changes depending upon the language and culture..  such as
     
    ...Cebrail [djébraïl]; ...............
    Greek: Γαβριήλ,Gabriḗl;....................
     Latin: Gabriel, Fortitudo Dei; ................
    Coptic: Ⲅⲁⲃⲣⲓⲏⲗ, Gabriêl;..................
    Amharic: ገብርኤል, Gabrəʾel; .................
    Aramaic: ܓ݁ܰܒ݂ܪܺܝܐܝܶܠ‎,
     romanized: Gaḇrīʾēl ................;
    Arabic: جبريل‎, Jibrīl or جبرائيل‎, Jibrāʾīl......

     
    or the "Gabriel" that reads Quran in 21st century and writes  a pub on those doublets.. triplets .. whatever??

    and did you read his publication ?



    Quote
    Rather amazingly, scholars of the Qur’an have generally not noticed the preponderance of doublets in the Qur’an. Identifying repeated phrases (usually complete verses) of 9 words or more I identify 29 Qur’anic doublets. Here’s a sample! .............


    and what do you make of it??  I guess scholars of the Qur’an HAVE NOT READ QURAN...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10312 - July 03, 2021, 09:16 PM

     the "Gabriel" that reads Quran in 21st century and writes  a pub on those doublets.. triplets
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10313 - July 04, 2021, 07:45 AM

    the "Gabriel" that reads Quran in 21st century and writes  a pub on those doublets.. triplets

    that is easy to deal with  ..  so did you read that publication?   and  and at that twitter  head Gabriel  says

    Quote
      https://mobile.twitter.com/GabrielSaidR/status/1410933503450025985

    Rather amazingly, scholars of the Qur’an have generally not noticed the preponderance of doublets in the Qur’an. 

     is that true??

    https://qurananalysis.com/analysis/repetition-verses.php?lang=EN

    55:77   So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny?...............24

    well those words are said 24 times.... he should write another paper  ..

    errrrr  wood peckers

    oh I see
    Quote
    https://mobile.twitter.com/GabrielSaidR/status/1410935157020897286

    In other words, the doublets (& their distribution) point to the existence of pre-canonical texts, or collections (these presumably would contain more than the doublets – the doublets simply signal their existence): a “Meccan” collection and a “Medinan” collection. 7/


    1).  the doublets point to the existence of pre-canonical texts,

    2).  the doublets simply signal their existence): a “Meccan” collection and a “Medinan” collection

    well No..       that is only one way of thinking

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10314 - July 05, 2021, 07:01 PM

    Oh I see..  I guess Altara gets that  from some twitter head ..

    (Clicky for piccy!)



      So that  The Qurʾānic Doublets  by Gabriel Said Reynolds  published in Journal of the International Qur’anic Studies Association  Vol. 5 No. 1 (2020)


    Well i did not get hold of that article but I have Quran in hand..
    Quote
    2: 35. And We said: O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden and eat from it a plenteous (food) wherever you wish and do not approach this tree, for then you will be of the unjust.

    7:19. And (We said): O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden; so eat from where you desire, but do not go near this tree, for then you will be of the unjust.

    Quote
    2: 47. O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations.

    2:122: O children of Israel, call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations.., 

    2:123: And be on your guard against a day when no soul shall avail another in the least neither shall any compensation be accepted from it, nor shall intercession profit it, nor shall they be helped.

    Quote
    2.49. And when We delivered you from Firon's people, who subjected you to severe torment, killing your sons and sparing your women, and in this there was a great trial from your Lord.

    7.141: And when We delivered you from Firon's people, who subjected you to severe torment, killing your sons and sparing your women, and in this there was a great trial from your Lord.

    14.6:  And when Musa said to his people: Call to mind Allah's favor to you when He delivered you from Firon's people, who subjected you to severe torment, and slew your sons and spared your women; and in this there was a great trial from your Lord.

    Quote
    2: 62: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

    5.69: Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

    Quote
    2.134:  This is a people that have passed away; they shall have what they earned and you shall have what you earn, and you shall not be called upon to answer for what they did.

    2.141: This is a people that have passed away; they shall have what they earned and you shall have what you earn, and you shall not be called upon to answer for what they did.

    Quote
    2.162: Abiding in it; their chastisement shall not be lightened nor shall they be given respite.

    3.88: Abiding in it; their chastisement shall not be lightened nor shall they be respited.

    Quote
    2.173:  He has only forbidden you what dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that over which any other (name) than (that of) Allah has been invoked; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring, nor exceeding the limit, no sin shall be upon him; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    16.115:  He has only forbidden you what dies of itself and blood and flesh of swine and that over which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    Quote
    3.51: Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.

    19.36: And surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path

    43.64: Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path:

    Quote
    4.48:  Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin.

    4:116: Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and He forgives what is besides this to whom He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he indeed strays off into a remote error.

    Quote
    5.10: And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject our communications, these are the companions of the name.

    5.86: And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, these are the companions of the flame.

     
    Quote
    6.10: And certainly apostles before you were mocked at, but that which they mocked at encompassed the scoffers among them.

    21.41: And certainly apostles before you were scoffed at, then there befell those of them who scoffed that at which they had scoffed.

    Quote
    7.22: Then he caused them to fall by deceit; so when they tasted of the tree, their evil inclinations became manifest to them, and they both began to cover themselves with the leaves of the garden; and their Lord called out to them: Did I not forbid you both from that tree and say to you that the Shaitan is your open enemy?

    20:121: Then they both ate of it, so their evil inclinations became manifest to them, and they both began to cover themselves with leaves of the garden, and Adam disobeyed his Lord, so his life became evil (to him).




    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10315 - July 05, 2021, 07:37 PM

    What Might Doublets in the Qur'an Tell Us about the Origins of the Text?” - Gabriel Said Reynolds

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dksdQ2Bjbcw&t=1s

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10316 - July 05, 2021, 08:39 PM

    Thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/IslamicOrigins/status/1412117083664666631
    Quote
    *Recent works on Islamic origins: A short thread*

    I was asked what books I would recommend on Islamic origins. I’m going to interpret this to mean 7th-Century Islam and Islamic history, including early theology/creed and jurisprudence.

    In terms of (1) secular, academic scholarship (2) available in English (3) after the critical shift in the 1970s (regarding the Islamic literary sources, and the need to account for Late Antique context), the following works come to mind.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10317 - July 06, 2021, 12:15 AM

    What Might Doublets in the Qur'an Tell Us about the Origins of the Text?” - Gabriel Said Reynolds

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dksdQ2Bjbcw&t=1s


    Not really surprising about doublets: economy of means is cleverness, intelligence, High IQ, whatever you call it. And it worked very well.
    It has a function of repetition, therefore education entering the brain. Repetition is the Quran: same stories, same patterns, same all.  Obviously, there is no 'Muhammad' this or that in Mecca/Kaba/Zem Zem. There is a crafted literary work which could appears as 'oral' but which is not.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10318 - July 07, 2021, 01:43 PM

    Not really surprising about doublets: economy of means is cleverness, intelligence, High IQ, whatever you call it. And it worked very well.
    It has a function of repetition, therefore education entering the brain. Repetition is the Quran: same stories, same patterns, same all.  Obviously, there is no 'Muhammad' this or that in Mecca/Kaba/Zem Zem. There is a crafted literary work which could appears as 'oral' but which is not.

    I don't think those repetitive verses have ANY ROLE IN ISLAMIC PRAYER or brain washing folks in Islam dear Altara ., In fact many of the verses that are used in Islamic prayer CAN BE USED TO ANY FAITH and their followers

    anyways for me such exercise of righting pub on  repetitive verses is nonsense..  it just adds a number to the author's CV..

    well News says AUC professor Mona Abaza, passed away in Berlin



    Dr. Mona a very smart book on a comparative Islamic faith/Islamic rituals  in Egypt and Malaysia



    I wonder any have a pdf file of that book...

    Mourning, Narratives and Interactions with the Martyrs
    through Cairo's Graffiti
      by Mona Abaz

    Mona Abaza. Debates on Islam and Knowledge in Malaysia and Egypt: Shifting Worlds      Reviewed by Farish A. Noor  .,  ((Dr. Farish Ahmad-Noor is a Malaysian political scientist and human rights activist currently working at the Centre for Modern Orient Studies (ZMO), Berlin. He is the author of New Voices of Islam }}

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #10319 - July 07, 2021, 01:54 PM

    I was not speaking of 'prayers'. Apart Q 1 (more or less) there is no 'prayers' in the Quran.
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