Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Qur'anic studies today
Today at 05:08 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
Today at 01:54 PM

Excellence and uniqueness
by akay
Today at 10:17 AM

NayaPakistan...New Pakist...
Yesterday at 04:25 PM

No Outsiders? Except at t...
October 18, 2019, 07:05 PM

'Islamic State' a.k.a. IS...
October 17, 2019, 06:09 PM

New PM incoming
October 17, 2019, 11:54 AM

مدهش----- لماذا؟؟؟؟
October 16, 2019, 02:47 PM

Freely down loadable Boo...
October 15, 2019, 03:45 PM

Catalan protests
October 14, 2019, 06:06 PM

Neo prounouns & facism
October 13, 2019, 10:35 PM

New tunisian prez
October 13, 2019, 09:24 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: The Golden Age of Islam and Islam

 (Read 16408 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 3« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #60 - October 21, 2014, 07:17 PM

    I heard that a couple of weeks ago!

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #61 - December 21, 2014, 05:59 PM

    1001 Inventions: The Enduring Legacy of Muslim Civilization - review by Sonja Brentjes
    http://www.ircps.org/sites/ircps.org/files/aestimatio/10/2013-14_Brentjes.pdf
    Quote
    [...]

    All in all, the fundamental distortion of history embedded in the thesis that today’s sciences and technologies depend on inventions and discoveries made by medieval Muslim scholars, characteristic of the second edition, continues to be the guideline of the third edition too. This misguided presentation of the many impressive achievements of scholars from past Islamicate societies precipitates many exaggerations according to which Muslims laid the foundations for almost every science of today, invented almost every important technological device or gadget in use today, or revolutionized everything they learned from writings of scholars who lived before the seventh century or outside the realm of what is dubbed in the book ‘the Muslim world’. In short, the companion book with its texts, images, and blurbs suffers from a severe case of ‘Muslim precursoritis’, to pick up an ironic term used by Abdelhamid Sabra many years ago in his much appreciated criticism of our own research practices as historians of science in Islamicate societies. As the academic field itself, regrettably, the book suffers in addition from Phil-Arabism, to the detriment of other peoples and communities that contributed importantly to the sciences and technologies of past Islamicate societies. Again, as the academic field itself, regrettably, the book exhibits widespread disinterest in the precise historical contexts of the various scholarly activities and their results, and sadly reflects the shortcomings of academic research on past sciences and technologies in Islamicate societies. The serious errors by the book’s compilers and editors are, however, not caused by any of my colleagues, despite Salim al-Hassani’s repeated protestations. In contrast, it is both annoying and sad that 1001 Inventions misses the chance to popularize the many profoundly new dicoveries by historians of science concerning the ideas and practices of scholars in medieval societies of Europe, Asia, and Africa; and that instead it misrepresents the past, deriving false pride and pleasure, rather than learning and teaching how to respect, appreciate, and admire past scholars in their own contexts.

    [...]

  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #62 - December 21, 2014, 06:14 PM

    great essay that ^^^


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #63 - February 13, 2015, 07:58 PM

    Relevant books:



    Quote
    In this sweeping and richly illustrated history, S. Frederick Starr tells the fascinating but largely unknown story of Central Asia's medieval enlightenment through the eventful lives and astonishing accomplishments of its greatest minds--remarkable figures who built a bridge to the modern world. Because nearly all of these figures wrote in Arabic, they were long assumed to have been Arabs. In fact, they were from Central Asia--drawn from the Persianate and Turkic peoples of a region that today extends from Kazakhstan southward through Afghanistan, and from the easternmost province of Iran through Xinjiang, China.

    Lost Enlightenment recounts how, between the years 800 and 1200, Central Asia led the world in trade and economic development, the size and sophistication of its cities, the refinement of its arts, and, above all, in the advancement of knowledge in many fields. Central Asians achieved signal breakthroughs in astronomy, mathematics, geology, medicine, chemistry, music, social science, philosophy, and theology, among other subjects. They gave algebra its name, calculated the earth's diameter with unprecedented precision, wrote the books that later defined European medicine, and penned some of the world's greatest poetry. One scholar, working in Afghanistan, even predicted the existence of North and South America--five centuries before Columbus. Rarely in history has a more impressive group of polymaths appeared at one place and time. No wonder that their writings influenced European culture from the time of St. Thomas Aquinas down to the scientific revolution, and had a similarly deep impact in India and much of Asia.

    Lost Enlightenment chronicles this forgotten age of achievement, seeks to explain its rise, and explores the competing theories about the cause of its eventual demise. Informed by the latest scholarship yet written in a lively and accessible style, this is a book that will surprise general readers and specialists alike.



    Quote
    Current discussions in the West on the relation of science and religion focus mainly on science’s uneasy relationship with the traditional Judeo-Christian view of life. But a parallel controversy exists in the Muslim world regarding ways to integrate science with Islam. As physicist Taner Edis shows in this fascinating glimpse into contemporary Muslim culture, a good deal of popular writing in Muslim societies attempts to address such perplexing questions as:

    • Is Islam a "scientific religion"?
    • Were the discoveries of modern science foreshadowed in the Quran?
    • Are intelligent design conjectures more appealing to the Muslim perspective than Darwinian explanations?

    Edis examines the range of Muslim thinking about science and Islam, from blatantly pseudoscientific fantasies to comparatively sophisticated efforts to "Islamize science." From the world’s strongest creationist movements to bizarre science-in-the-Quran apologetics, popular Muslim approaches promote a view of natural science as a mere fact-collecting activity that coexists in near-perfect harmony with literal-minded faith. Since Muslims are keenly aware that science and technology have been the keys to Western success, they are eager to harness technology to achieve a Muslim version of modernity. Yet at the same time, they are reluctant to allow science to become independent of religion and are suspicious of Western secularization.
    Edis examines all of these conflicting trends, revealing the difficulties facing Muslim societies trying to adapt to the modern technological world. His discussions of both the parallels and the differences between Western and Muslim attempts to harmonize science and religion make for a unique and intriguing contribution to this continuing debate.



    Quote
    The Islamic scientific tradition has been described many times in accounts of Islamic civilization and general histories of science, with most authors tracing its beginnings to the appropriation of ideas from other ancient civilizations--the Greeks in particular. In this thought-provoking and original book, George Saliba argues that, contrary to the generally accepted view, the foundations of Islamic scientific thought were laid well before Greek sources were formally translated into Arabic in the ninth century. Drawing on an account by the tenth-century intellectual historian Ibn al-Nadim [macron over i] that is ignored by most modern scholars, Saliba suggests that early translations from mainly Persian and Greek sources outlining elementary scientific ideas for the use of government departments were the impetus for the development of the Islamic scientific tradition. He argues further that there was an organic relationship between the Islamic scientific thought that developed in the later centuries and the science that came into being in Europe during the Renaissance.Saliba outlines the conventional accounts of Islamic science, then discusses their shortcomings and proposes an alternate narrative. Using astronomy as a template for tracing the progress of science in Islamic civilization, Saliba demonstrates the originality of Islamic scientific thought. He details the innovations (including new mathematical tools) made by the Islamic astronomers from the thirteenth to sixteenth centuries, and offers evidence that Copernicus could have known of and drawn on their work. Rather than viewing the rise and fall of Islamic science from the often-narrated perspectives of politics and religion, Saliba focuses on the scientific production itself and the complex social, economic, and intellectual conditions that made it possible.




    Quote
    For over 700 years the international language of science was Arabic. Surveying the golden age of Arabic science, Jim Al-Khalili reintroduces such figures as the Iraqi physicist Ibn al-Haytham, who practised the modern scientific method over half a century before Bacon; al-Khwarizmi, the greatest mathematician of the medieval world; and Abu Rayhan al-Biruni, a Persian polymath to rival Leonardo da Vinci.




    Quote
    This is a study of the long-standing question of why modern science arose only in the West and not in the civilizations of Islam or China, despite the fact that, by the Middle Ages, Islam and China were more scientifically advanced. To find an explanation the author examines the differences in religious, philosophical, and legal institutions of the three civilizations, focusing on the legal concept of 'corporation', which is unique to the West and gave rise to neutral space and free inquiry, concepts integral to modern science.



    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #64 - February 15, 2015, 04:16 AM

    I find Saliba's work to be lacking and speculation based on scant evidence in parts of his book. Merely exchanging word play of the Renaissance Europe as Christian Science with Islamic Science. His work covering Copernicus is pure speculation which has been taken to task by astrophysics already. Much of his work covering astronomy varies between factual to speculation. There is also a discount regarding various influences with the environment science worked within various cultures, religious views and nations which is ignored as often as cited. I believe a major issue is equivocates terms used as labels. At time he will be specific in identifying people; Arab, Persian Greek. At other times Islamic is the equivalent to Byzantium. This is fallacious as Byzantium is cultural identification not an religious identification. While likewise Islamic is religious not not cultural. More technical terms would do more justice for points which are factual. However keep in mind I think he makes many good points in part. One just needs to replace generalizations with proper terms.

    Toby Huff actually takes Saliba to task in two reviews.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #65 - February 15, 2015, 08:58 AM

    I'll have to admit that I haven't actually read Saliba's work yet. I was/am aware of some of the criticisms levied against it, but I'd like to give it a read anyways. The need for nuance is an important need.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #66 - February 15, 2015, 09:11 AM

    I find Saliba's work to be lacking and speculation based on scant evidence in parts of his book. Merely exchanging word play of the Renaissance Europe as Christian Science with Islamic Science. His work covering Copernicus is pure speculation which has been taken to task by astrophysics already. Much of his work covering astronomy varies between factual to speculation. There is also a discount regarding various influences with the environment science worked within various cultures, religious views and nations which is ignored as often as cited. I believe a major issue is equivocates terms used as labels. At time he will be specific in identifying people; Arab, Persian Greek. At other times Islamic is the equivalent to Byzantium. This is fallacious as Byzantium is cultural identification not an religious identification. While likewise Islamic is religious not not cultural. More technical terms would do more justice for points which are factual. However keep in mind I think he makes many good points in part. One just needs to replace generalizations with proper terms.

    I didn't understand a word of that. Are you drunk...


    or I hungover?
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #67 - February 15, 2015, 09:39 AM

    The latter, David.

    It makes good sense.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #68 - March 31, 2015, 07:54 PM

    Maya Shatzmiller -  An early knowledge economy: the adoption of paper, human capital and economic change in the medieval Islamic Middle East, 700-1300 AD

    http://www.cgeh.nl/sites/default/files/WorkingPapers/CGEHWP64Shatzmiller.pdf
    Quote
    This study traced the adoption of paper in the Middle East to a rise in demand for writing material in a society experiencing growth in income per capita. A rise in the standards of living, an outcome of economic change, created in the aftermath of an exogenous demographic shock, resulted in income elasticity and demand for luxury goods, such as fine clothing, fancy foods and writing material. Papyri may have been in decline already at this point but the transformation of a technological innovation into a key economic factor could not have materialized without demand. Instead, a switch in cultivation patterns in favor of textiles, flax in particular, in itself a result of that early economic change, inadvertently led to considerable declines in the prices of rag papers and books. This made these goods into staple items of consumption in society. The spread of the new writing material was intrinsically critical to the scholarly activity in early medieval Iraq, the so-called ‘Golden Age’ of Islam, while it is less known for its effect on the economy. The standardization of the Arabic language, the shift from orality to writerly culture, and the increase in literacy rates which the use of paper helped initiate, resulted in growing labor productivity and efficiency in the conduct of trade and contract enforcement. However, the entire spectrum of ‘information technology,’ the increase in book production, the new ways knowledge was created, accumulated, stored and diffused, the increased functional literacy, could not have materialized in a society existing on subsistence level. Previous societies in the Middle East including Mesopotamia,139 Rome,140 Byzantium,141 probably enjoyed higher standards of living and income levels per capita than previously thought; yet no evidence has come forward to suggest a rise in literacy rates. The evidence examined here did not suggest a role for institutions in this process. Neither religion nor religious institutions, such as the monasteries and scriptoriums that played a role in the rise of functional literacy and book production in early medieval Europe, could be documented in this case. Legal and political institutions did not play a role, nor did the court’s bureaucracy initiate the process on its own. On the contrary, paper was as instrumental in the development of the religion and religious practices as it was in the development of the Islamic law. The Abbasid bureaucracies, whose diwans, administrative structures and units that were later imitated in every corner of the Islamic world, did not play a role in triggering it either. Nor did the Abbasid court, nor any other court for that matter, generate enough demand to drive the new product into cheap mass production. On the other hand, the Islamic institutions did not interfere with the process either....

  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #69 - March 31, 2015, 08:10 PM

    I react suspiciously to economicist arguments!

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #70 - March 31, 2015, 08:21 PM

    ^You're probably right but it's still an interesting argument.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #71 - April 16, 2015, 10:22 PM

    Mohamad Ballan - Beyond “Tolerance” and “Intolerance”: Deconstructing the Myth of the Islamic Golden Age
    Quote
    Like many other concepts that shape our understanding of medieval history, the idea of a “Muslim Golden Age” is a historiographical construct. It promotes the notion that, until at least the early thirteenth century, the Muslim world experienced an era of unprecedented stability, prosperity, and cultural production. More particularly, it emphasizes that the period between roughly 800 and 1200 (sometimes extended to 1700 in order to include the Ottomans and Mughals; the Safavids are usually ignored) can be considered to represent the pinnacle of human endeavor in the Muslim world. There are many problems with this perspective. Putting aside the fact that it imposes an anachronistic framework on medieval Muslim history, its main argument that the period 800-1200 can be characterized mainly by tolerance, cultural efflorescence, political unity, and religious harmony is contrary to many of the facts that one encounters upon reading the history of the various civilizations which are subsumed under the category of “Islamic civilization”, a phrase which conceals the linguistic, cultural, intellectual, theological, and political diversity of the lands in which Muslims resided during the medieval and early modern periods. This is to say nothing of the fact that the narratives promoted by these “Golden Age” perspectives are usually a reworking of official histories which do not take into account the realities of marginalized groups during the same period. The “Golden Age” perspective is also problematic because it is in many ways reactionary and a response to the many political, religious, and intellectual challenges faced by the Muslim world in the modern period. History, or rather particular historical narratives about a “Golden Age”, therefore becomes an important repository for the “greatness of Islamic civilization” and a refuge in which Muslims can seek solace in order to refute the idea–promoted mainly by those hostile to Islam–that Muslim civilization was, is, and always will be characterized by death, destruction and chaos.

    One of the main ways that Muslims seek to undermine “Orientalist” notions of the decadence of Muslim civilization is therefore by promoting a narrative of a glorious and illustrious Muslim “Golden Age” in which civilization in the Middle East flourished for centuries under the auspices of Islamic ideology. (It is interesting to note here that many Orientalists were not the originators of the decline thesis and many Orientalist scholars themselves played a role in fomenting interest in the so-called “Golden Age”) The emphasis on a “Muslim Golden Age” is therefore *usually* not based on any comprehensive engagement with historical sources or a yearning to discover the actual reality of medieval and early modern Muslim history. At its core, the project is purely reactionary and seeks to provide Muslims with the ideological armor they need to withstand modernist critiques against their civilization. Unfortunately, however,  in the course of doing so the “Golden Age” paradigm tends to subject historical facts to its narrow ideological interests. In other words, the nuances of Muslim history and civilization are completely obscured in the face of broad, sweeping statements geared towards emphasizing not only the uprightness, but even the absolute supremacy of Muslim civilization, as it was believed to have manifested between 800 and 1700. It is at this point where history ceases to be a critical intellectual endeavor and instead becomes polemic and apologetics.  In this short piece,  I look at one simple example of how the “Golden Age” perspective obstructs a serious understanding of Muslim history by looking at the theme of “tolerance” and “intolerance”.

    Read on: https://ballandalus.wordpress.com/2014/01/31/beyond-tolerance-and-intolerance-deconstructing-the-myth-of-the-islamic-golden-age/#more-6240
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #72 - June 10, 2015, 06:16 AM

    There's a company in the UK called "1001 INVENTIONS". This company lies and deceives and I exposed this. I showed what the lies are and why they are lies. I showed what reality is and how their stories are fabrications and only sly tactics to generate influence and introduce Islamic propaganda into the classrooms of children. There are others who also noticed this and have equally exposed their deceptive tactics and have ridiculed their pretty stupid claims.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #73 - November 12, 2015, 09:51 AM

    The golden age of Islam reinterpreted  writes HANEEN RAFI  in dawn

    Quote
    KARACHI: One of the laments the Muslim world regularly indulges in is about the decline of the golden age of Islam, an era that saw scientific developments in the Muslim world in the field of science and mathematics, in fact in all rationalist disciplines. Many believe this decline, 1200CE onwards, was caused primarily by Muslim theologian and philosopher Mohammad al-Ghazali. This populist claim was challenged at a talk titled, ‘Islam’s invented golden age and the golden age of Islamic studies’, held at IBA on Wednesday.

    Associate professor and director of graduate studies in the department of Near Eastern Studies at the University of California, Berkeley, Asad Q. Ahmed specialises in early Islamic social history and pre-modern Islamic intellectual history. An undergraduate of Yale, and awarded a Phd from Princeton, Ahmed’s extensive research on rationalist disciplines such as philosophy, logic, and astronomy was a dazzling display in the 50-odd minutes he spoke to an awed audience.

    Al-Ghazali, according to Ahmed, is wrongly attributed as the reason behind the decline. “The narrative of decline in the post-classical period of Islam, from the 1200s to the present, is an invention of rather uninformed Orientalist scholarship. In fact, in recent research, we have discovered a rather vibrant tradition sustained well into the late 19th and early 20th centuries.”

    With examples of Muslim scholars from the 13th, 14th, 15th centuries, all the way to the 19th, including scholars from the subcontinent, Ahmed argued that science and rationalism in Islam was very much present in the post-classic period, and simplistic narratives rampant need to be “jettisoned”.

    The deep slumber of the Muslim world that many referred to as is actually anything but.

    Elaborating on the ‘grand golden age narrative’, Ahmed spoke about the initial 400 years of Islam starting from the translation movement when scientific works in Greek, Sanskrit and other languages were translated into Arabic. “It was a time when the rationalist tradition was dynamic, with Muslim scholars absorbing these scientific traditions, naturalising them, appropriating them, and then contributing towards them,” he said.

    Some of the popular names of the time include Al-Farabi, Al-Kindi and Ibn Sina. “No one doubts that these scholars made tremendous contributions to the progress of science in the Islamic tradition.”

    Ahmed then elaborated on how we are led to believe that “in the 11th and 12th century there were attacks on Islam’s scientific tradition by traditionalist scholars, who are often today also called mullahs.” And chief among these traditionalist scholars is someone called al-Ghazali who everyone believes heralded the sharp decline of the golden age of Islam.

    “This version of history is based on a meta-historical attitude that Orientalist scholarship took towards various cultures partly to colonise, partly to write one history against another and without ultimately any analysis of details found in very technical texts in the Islamic tradition.” These texts Ahmed has had access to and thoroughly researched to denounce this narrative.

    Quote
    After summing up this widely-believed narrative, Ahmed then produced textual evidence, in translation, from Ghazali’s Tahafut Al-Falasifah: Destruction of the Philosophers suggesting that Ghazali took issue not with other scientists but only with metaphysicians. This was primarily because of their use of faulty logic, as, in the words of Ghazali himself, there is “neither firm foundation nor perfection in the doctrine they hold; that they judge in terms of surmise and supposition, without verification or certainty.”


    However, what does Ghazali have to say when scripture, from the Quran or hadith, clashes with demonstrations of the sciences?

    Ahmed says that Ghazali believed that “when the demonstrations of rationalist disciplines differ from the pronouncements of the transmitted religious texts, the scriptural proofs have to be reinterpreted or considered unauthentic.

    “As far as Ghazali is concerned there is no real clash between religion and science,” he concluded.

    With the aim that there is quite a bit left to undo this narrative, Ahmed delivered a thoroughly researched talk and this form of scholarly work is a welcome addition to academic circles in Karachi. Unfortunately, due to the highly theoretical nature of his work, some in the audience felt disconnected with the models and frameworks he shared.

    Published in Dawn, November 12th, 2015

     and  this  is Associate professor and director of graduate studies Asad Q. Ahmed

    Any one who read through early Islamic history with a bit of common sense (not islamic sense) will easily come to the conclusion.,   that so-called Advancement of science in medieval Islamic nations is "IN SPITE OF ISLAM & NOT BECAUSE OF ISLAM".  The credit goes to individuals but not to Islam, Islamic scriptures and Islamic kingdoms....

     Beyond 'Tolerance' and 'Intolerance': Deconstructing the Myth of the Islamic Golden Age by Mohamad Ballan in jadaliyya.com

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #74 - November 12, 2015, 10:04 AM

    Quote
    The propaganda of Islamic intellectuals of 20th century  to project  a backward bedouine tribe of robbers, looters and killers who are infamous through out history as nothing but savages  who lived in deserts and could barely even read — as intellectuals, inventors and scientists. This   is a Myth common propaganda  of Islamic intellectuals ad Islam proponents of 20th century. In these tough times in middle east  it is often used as propaganda to promote Caliphate support and development by many Islamic organizations such as ISIS & Hizb ut-Tahrir ..

    Quote
    But Muslims are not alone in this kind of propaganda. Distorted  historical records mainly originating from fabricated information from forty years of Arab propaganda has made even Western scholars repeat these references ad nauseum. That propaganda was brought to Europe and the U.S. after the Euro-Arab Cooperation signed in the 1970’s and suddenly attributed skills and inventions to Arabs which had nothing to do with Arabs. This treaty demanded that Islam should be glorified and portrayed in a more shining light than it had to that point, which had protected these countries from Muslim immigration by putting a block on accepting Muslim migrants. The treaty also demanded that Israel should be portrayed as an aggressor and Palestine portrayed as the poor victim, although this was inaccurate to historical facts.

    Muslim inventions have been nothing but looted goods brought into other regions of Europe. Muslims acquired and brought these inventions from invasions and conquests from Roman, Greek, pagan (which in those days were a term used for Hindus) and Jewish inventions and settlements, when Arab warlord forced their presence closer and closer into Europe through slaughter and mass murders.

    The typical distorted and fabricated argument Muslims give to justify the Khiafah – the Caliphate:

    Quote
    “The Islamic Golden Age is a historical period lasting from c. 750 CE to c. 1257 CE, during which philosophers, scientists and engineers of the Islamic world are credited with a period of contribution to scientific knowledge, cultural arts, civilisation and architecture, both by developing earlier traditions and by a period of relatively rapid and marked innovation. A substantial degree of historic Islamic intellectual innovation occurred in the Islamic Golden age, and it was this which helped to bring Europe out of the dark ages and brought about the resonance (rebirth) of Europe, Islam brought the light back into a world of darkness.



    http://www.clarionproject.org/news/islamic-state-isis-isil-propaganda-magazine-dabiq

    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119259/isis-history-islamic-states-new-caliphate-syria-and-iraq

    http://www.khilafah.com/the-islamic-khilafah-and-its-illustrious-golden-age/

    https://www.radioislam.org/sindi/arab.htm

    http://clogic.eserver.org/2006/el-shall.html

    http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/15863


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #75 - November 12, 2015, 06:10 PM

    I'm sick of people claiming Muslims made advancements in science and mathematics thanks to Islam, while "the West only invented breakfast cereal". This is a myth that has got to go.


  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #76 - November 13, 2015, 02:16 AM

    Yeah, cereal is thousands of years old.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #77 - November 13, 2015, 05:58 PM

    Welp, I shared the 'debunking Muslim inventions' list on FB, and someone who identifies as liberal got angry and tore into it. He took the whole list as "Christian science/medicine vs Muslim science/medicine", and we all know how THAT goes down (with white liberals).

    He also accused me of well-documented intolerance on fb, when I expressed wariness of Jeremy Corbyn and the Left.

    (Sharing this with the presumption that no one from FB will figure out who I am.)
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #78 - November 14, 2015, 10:03 AM

    Why are somethings allowed to change but not other things?
    [/quote]
    Fascinating bit inthat silk road article!  Should we tell salafists that it is haram to put the koran on paper?

    Why are somethings allowed to change but not other things?


    It's interesting. One of the plausible explanations of Europe's sudden leap ahead of the Islamic nations scientifically, culturally, militarily. during the renaissance that I've seen is that it was down to Gutenburg and the Islamic nations' reluctance to adopt the printing press.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #79 - November 15, 2015, 09:04 AM

    Japan stagnated for centuries without the printing press, and without glass. To this day they have lousy windows.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #80 - November 15, 2015, 12:50 PM

    Wasn't the printing press banned in the Muslim world around the time that the Renaissance was kicking off in most of the European continent?
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #81 - November 16, 2015, 12:39 PM

    On haram things, wasn't there a battle where one side thought guns were haram?  Shouldn't someone tell daesh they should only be using camels, chariots, mounted cavalry, elephants and similar seventh century weaponry?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #82 - October 06, 2016, 11:30 AM

     interesting comments on 'Golden Age' of Islam  by Sam Harris

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQbZNSEbYFk

    and he compares  Japan. South Korea ,  India, Kuwait, Israel 

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #83 - October 07, 2016, 12:06 PM

    Harris is oblivious to history. Many of the values he holds are religious in origin. Stability and centralization were the key to development of humanity. Religion did help provide both. However this does not mean all the resulting developments are religious in origin.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #84 - October 07, 2016, 12:09 PM

    Harris is oblivious to history.  "Many of the values he holds are religious in origin. Stability and centralization were the key to development of humanity". Religion did help provide both. However this does not mean all the resulting developments are religious in origin.

    which ones??

    Stability and centralization is nothing to do with faiths and gods and bullshit ., It is all due  to politics may be in a postive way 

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #85 - October 09, 2016, 12:01 AM

    Humanism, methods within science, secularism, etc.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #86 - October 09, 2016, 02:09 PM

    let me go back and repeat what I said bogart again

    Many of the values he holds are religious in origin.

    dear bogart,   go back into the history of mankind since human being started walking on two legs & developing langues (speaking/writing) and tell me  WHICH HUMAN VALUES THAT DEVELOPED THE HUMAN  RACE HAS RELIGIOUS VALUES?   

    Quote
    Stability and centralization were the key to development of humanity. Religion did help provide both. However this does not mean all the resulting developments are religious in origin.

    to those highlighted words I said  "Stability and centralization is nothing to do with faiths and gods and bullshit"   and I stick to that  and i  say to this
    Humanism, methods within science, secularism, etc.

     again, they are   nothing to do with faiths and gods and bullshit"

    The folks who propagated/developed the concepts like " Humanism,   scientific rationalism , secularism"  may have been  born in to religious family atmosphere  but the  fact  is .,  

    "it is continuous questioning  of exiting religious literature  and rituals  irrespective of religions  by thoughtful rationals folks of past is the reason, these concepts like "Humanism,   scientific rationalism , secularism" are continuously  evolving and progressing since the time of Aristotle "

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #87 - October 11, 2016, 08:48 PM

    I already pointed out the values Harris follows which are religious in origin. Repeating these again is pointless.

    Religions have provided stability and centralization, among other influences, in every human society that has had a religion(s). Open a history book. More so religion has been so tied to society that even in the modern era societies still follow the ground work created by believers even if the current population is not as religious as the previous generations. Science itself was tied to religion for centuries as a method to understand the material world works as God's creation. Again only in the modern era was science divorced from religion but it still carried the baggages. Physics is still linked with theology. I can reference a number of work showing this is still a fact.

    Again this is not saying religion itself provided methodology directly but that the religious took inspiration from their religious view to investigate, develop and discover the world as they saw it as a creation of God. If one wishes to claim an Islamic Golden Age then by their own criteria we are in a Christian Golden Age which has led to our developed at a great scale in a short amount of time than Islam has
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #88 - July 02, 2017, 11:19 AM

    The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise: Muslims, Christians, and Jews under Islamic Rule in Medieval Spain  by Dario Fernandez Morera



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REljGDVQJDs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3eOCVZmxnU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I2WyY_R_hA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvkBlpfbFJM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY0u6ocIVAs


    Quote
    http://www.spanish-portuguese.northwestern.edu/people/faculty/teaching-research-faculty/fernandez-morera-dario.html

    Fernández Morera teaches courses in Golden Age and Medieval Spanish literature, culture and history. He has served in the United States National Council for the Humanities.  His writings include several books and editions and many articles and review articles in English and Spanish on cultural, historical and theoretical and methodological issues in Spain, Latin America and the United States, the encounter between Europeans and Amerindians, Cervantes, Garcilaso de la Vega, Fray Luis de León, Inca Garcilaso, Vicente Aleixandre, Islamic Spain, and Modernism.  He has published articles, reviewed books and served as consultant and reader for History of European Ideas, The European Legacy, Symposium, Hispanic Review, the National Endowment for the Humanities, Canadian Review of Comparative Literature, Revista Canadiense de Estudios Hispánicos, Comparative Civilizations Review, Modern Age, etc.  Among his publications are The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise: Muslims, Christians and Jews under Islamic Rule in Medieval Spain; American Academia and the Survival of Marxist Ideas; The Lyre and the Oaten Flute: Garcilaso and the Pastoral; Fray Luis: Poesía (ed); Europe and its Encounter with the Amerindians (ed.); Cervantes in the English Speaking World (ed. with M. Hanke); Cervantes y su mundo II (ed with K. Reichenberger).  He is the recipient of the 2008 award for Graduate Teaching Excellence from the School of Continuing Studies.  He has served as Director of Undergraduate Studies in the Department of Spanish and Portuguese


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #89 - July 02, 2017, 11:29 AM

    The other side..The Islamic SIde  of the story   on Spain and The Golden Age of Islam  

    Untold History - Al-Andalus - Islamic Golden Age
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eiCxzXY8XQ

    The Fall of Andalus - Islamic Spain
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMkZ2Lz1kyc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gGUEJRJkEQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UjnzRqONDA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqmfV3ljXjs

    WHERE IS THE TRUTH...??

    err allah knows the best

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Previous page 1 2 3« Previous thread | Next thread »